Flights at risk as pilots refuse to accept 'demeaning' ID cards
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Yes this ID card business is very sinister indeed and the thin end of the wedge.
They have chosen the pilot workforce as they know very well that pilots as a force will never stick together, on anything. I think the government's timing on this one is incredible.
Come on guys and gals, prove me wrong. Make a stand for what is right for once.
They have chosen the pilot workforce as they know very well that pilots as a force will never stick together, on anything. I think the government's timing on this one is incredible.
Come on guys and gals, prove me wrong. Make a stand for what is right for once.
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We all need to resist this or we can start to kiss our freedoms goodbye.
The reason why we have to stand up now is because it is my belief that in a short amount of time the apparatus of democracy will not be there for us to change our circumstances or protect any freedom that we may have left.
As has been mentioned by others the most concerning issue is not the card but the databases behind it and the RFID tracking chips.
Please bear in mind that they have designed an RFID chip for humans called the VeriChip, it is designed to go under the skin. It has already been implanted in humans. My personal belief is that the ultimate goal is to get everyone in the world chipped with the VeriChip tracking module, the RFID chip in the card is just an intermediary step. Everyone will be locked into a monitered control grid, every action you perform will be documented, a centralised one world system - all rights removed. Chipped at birth and tracked from cradle to grave.
If anyone is genuinely interested I have produced a document on this subject to help raise awareness amongst all aviation workers, not just pilots. It contains information that is to the best of my knowledge correct. It does not contain my beliefs like the one above but does touch on the privacy and civil rights issues. If you pm me your email address then I can send you a pdf copy of the document.
Good luck to all who oppose this.
The reason why we have to stand up now is because it is my belief that in a short amount of time the apparatus of democracy will not be there for us to change our circumstances or protect any freedom that we may have left.
As has been mentioned by others the most concerning issue is not the card but the databases behind it and the RFID tracking chips.
Please bear in mind that they have designed an RFID chip for humans called the VeriChip, it is designed to go under the skin. It has already been implanted in humans. My personal belief is that the ultimate goal is to get everyone in the world chipped with the VeriChip tracking module, the RFID chip in the card is just an intermediary step. Everyone will be locked into a monitered control grid, every action you perform will be documented, a centralised one world system - all rights removed. Chipped at birth and tracked from cradle to grave.
If anyone is genuinely interested I have produced a document on this subject to help raise awareness amongst all aviation workers, not just pilots. It contains information that is to the best of my knowledge correct. It does not contain my beliefs like the one above but does touch on the privacy and civil rights issues. If you pm me your email address then I can send you a pdf copy of the document.
Good luck to all who oppose this.
Last edited by golftangofox; 23rd Feb 2009 at 15:29.
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You're dead right there mate. Know as the wishes of the New World/One world order/Bilderbergers.
We're being led like lambs to the slaughter.
We're being led like lambs to the slaughter.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 23rd Feb 2009 at 13:29.
Letter in today's Daily Telegraph which just about sums it all up. How far are we off the excuse "We were just following orders" which was used previously in history as an excuse for certain atrocities?
The compliance disease
SIR – Recent letters from airline pilots complaining about being subject to the same security as passengers, lest they violently seize control of their own aircraft, are a symptom of a wider problem.
The Government insists on micro-managing every aspect of our lives and imposes strict regulations that remove any discretion to apply common sense by minor officials. This has further and more harmful effects
GPs used to be responsible for treating their patients according to their medical judgment, but now they are instead required to run specialist clinics and schemes with targeted take-up rates. Many patients are alienated by the pressure the GP applies to ensure compliance with the targets.
The police are subject to similar constraints. Every fatal motor accident, for example, has to be investigated as a “potential crime scene”, even though an experienced officer can tell a suspicious “accident” from more straightforward ones at a glance. The investigation will close the road for hours, at vast cost, when the police need public support to investigate a real crime.
Accountants used to have to prepare statutory accounts that gave a “true and fair” view of the state of a company’s affairs. Now they need only ensure the rules have been followed to the letter.
We have two choices: to employ only infallible, omniscient and omnipotent regulators, or to give those enforcing the rules more discretion.
If there is a being who meets the criteria for the first, I fear he is unlikely to apply for the job, having better things to do. The latter is also a problem as our schools seem unwilling to promote initiative and common sense in pupils.
Mark Edwards
Witney, Oxfordshire
SIR – Recent letters from airline pilots complaining about being subject to the same security as passengers, lest they violently seize control of their own aircraft, are a symptom of a wider problem.
The Government insists on micro-managing every aspect of our lives and imposes strict regulations that remove any discretion to apply common sense by minor officials. This has further and more harmful effects
GPs used to be responsible for treating their patients according to their medical judgment, but now they are instead required to run specialist clinics and schemes with targeted take-up rates. Many patients are alienated by the pressure the GP applies to ensure compliance with the targets.
The police are subject to similar constraints. Every fatal motor accident, for example, has to be investigated as a “potential crime scene”, even though an experienced officer can tell a suspicious “accident” from more straightforward ones at a glance. The investigation will close the road for hours, at vast cost, when the police need public support to investigate a real crime.
Accountants used to have to prepare statutory accounts that gave a “true and fair” view of the state of a company’s affairs. Now they need only ensure the rules have been followed to the letter.
We have two choices: to employ only infallible, omniscient and omnipotent regulators, or to give those enforcing the rules more discretion.
If there is a being who meets the criteria for the first, I fear he is unlikely to apply for the job, having better things to do. The latter is also a problem as our schools seem unwilling to promote initiative and common sense in pupils.
Mark Edwards
Witney, Oxfordshire
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Demeaning ID Cards
Would someone like to explain just what is "demeaning" about an identity card. It is not a tattoo on one's forehead. For the whole of my working life, and now as a retiree who still flies, I have had various ID cards, none of which I found demeaning. Lighten up and accept that the ID card might just be useful. Even if it seems to not serve any purpose to an individual, what harm can it cause?
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Lie! In some countries in Europe people have ID cards, but in others not.
You know only your own situation, do not assume it is everywhere. Besides, it was this continental-inspired demand that just sits in the back of my mind, when some ass in a uniform can demand, at his pleasure, that I "identify myself," for no reason, at any time...anywhere. Brings to mind Gestapo agents demanding "papers!"
Stuff it!
You know only your own situation, do not assume it is everywhere. Besides, it was this continental-inspired demand that just sits in the back of my mind, when some ass in a uniform can demand, at his pleasure, that I "identify myself," for no reason, at any time...anywhere. Brings to mind Gestapo agents demanding "papers!"
Stuff it!
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On one hand, it is true that 'if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about'... BUT on the other, dont fancy telling a complete stranger (who isnt as ID'd as me) anything about me.
Beginning to look like a rap star although ID badges have replaced the gold and diamond chains...
Beginning to look like a rap star although ID badges have replaced the gold and diamond chains...
Last edited by silverstreak; 24th Feb 2009 at 03:49.
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Would someone like to explain just what is "demeaning" about an identity card. It is not a tattoo on one's forehead. For the whole of my working life, and now as a retiree who still flies, I have had various ID cards, none of which I found demeaning. Lighten up and accept that the ID card might just be useful. Even if it seems to not serve any purpose to an individual, what harm can it cause?
I have an ID card for work. I had an ID card in the Armed Forces. I will not have a National ID card with the attached Database issued to me.
You make the sort uniformed comments that typify the sleepwalk into the erosion of civil liberty in the UK.
If you want one then fine have one but don't make the mistake of thinking it's just an ID card....Then again you are speaking from the safe haven of Australia............Wake up! They could still impose it on you lot.
Last edited by call100; 24th Feb 2009 at 10:13.
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If anyone is genuinely interested I have produced a document on this subject to help raise awareness amongst all aviation workers, not just pilots. It contains information that is to the best of my knowledge correct.
If you pm me your email address then I can send you a pdf copy of the document.
I will if you promise my email address will not be stored in a database
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Overdrive
I will if you promise my email address will not be stored in a database
24th February 2009 10:45
I will if you promise my email address will not be stored in a database
24th February 2009 10:45
Seriously though, if you are interested I can send you a copy with a faithful promise that I am not collating a database.
I am not a politician so I can assure you with some conviction that my word is good.
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In England a man stopped for cycling naked down the street will be asked why he's into indecent exposure.
On the Continent he'd be asked where are his "papers".
On the Continent he'd be asked where are his "papers".
Last edited by Dysag; 27th Feb 2009 at 20:46.
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The dangers of teh UK Identity Register and ID card
There is a lot of information on this here: stop the database state » NO2ID
Us pilots are being targetted because (a) we are unlikely to agree on any sort of collective action, so we can be picked off as our ID's expire. and (b) we are conditioned to follow authority - especially when it comes to keeping our job.
I'm not based at Manchester - so I will have to see what those people do!
Us pilots are being targetted because (a) we are unlikely to agree on any sort of collective action, so we can be picked off as our ID's expire. and (b) we are conditioned to follow authority - especially when it comes to keeping our job.
I'm not based at Manchester - so I will have to see what those people do!
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However.......we are all happy to let the commercial world know our personal profile e.g. Tesco card!
Every time you use Google a record of your activity (and obviously your current interest) is retained.
But with these we have a choice and they promise us some reward for this information.
And they don't seem to leave the data on railway trains.
Every time you use Google a record of your activity (and obviously your current interest) is retained.
But with these we have a choice and they promise us some reward for this information.
And they don't seem to leave the data on railway trains.
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ID Card Database breached:
Memo reveals multiple breaches of ID card database - ZDNet.co.uk
Anyone that thinks these ID cards are a good idea needs their head examined
Memo reveals multiple breaches of ID card database - ZDNet.co.uk
Anyone that thinks these ID cards are a good idea needs their head examined
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The appalling Harriet Harperson has just demonstrated the dangers of letting a government like this one have an ID database.
Whilst 'Fred the shred' is rightly Public Enemy Number One, a pension paid for life is exactly that. Rather than pursuing the fools who awarded him the pension, or even the (Labour) drone who allowed him to retire early and draw this obscene sum, she announces that the government will simply not allow it, or will change the law retrospectively to undo the agreement. This flies in the face of natural justice (as well as her beloved human rights).
Once the ID database is in place then it too will be subject to political interference, and what was supposed to be an anti-terrorism measure will be used to enforce Harriet's mad political agenda. (Remember, the Child Support Agency has been given the right to cancel driving licences !)
So if you've overfilled your dustbin you may find your airport ID withdrawn.
- Unless, of course, Labour lose the next election ....
Whilst 'Fred the shred' is rightly Public Enemy Number One, a pension paid for life is exactly that. Rather than pursuing the fools who awarded him the pension, or even the (Labour) drone who allowed him to retire early and draw this obscene sum, she announces that the government will simply not allow it, or will change the law retrospectively to undo the agreement. This flies in the face of natural justice (as well as her beloved human rights).
Once the ID database is in place then it too will be subject to political interference, and what was supposed to be an anti-terrorism measure will be used to enforce Harriet's mad political agenda. (Remember, the Child Support Agency has been given the right to cancel driving licences !)
So if you've overfilled your dustbin you may find your airport ID withdrawn.
- Unless, of course, Labour lose the next election ....
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You naysayers have it all wrong. I am in government and a serving politican. Trust me on this when I say you pilots have nothing to worry about whatsoever. I trust you with my life when I am flying on your aeroplanes so you must trust us, with your freedom.
As regards to the widespread loss of databases in pubs etc., well that's absolute tosh. There maybe the odd database go missing but we are still looking for them and we haven't given up hope of finding them intact. Harrett and I are onto this don't you worry.
Trust me on this one you hear!
As regards to the widespread loss of databases in pubs etc., well that's absolute tosh. There maybe the odd database go missing but we are still looking for them and we haven't given up hope of finding them intact. Harrett and I are onto this don't you worry.
Trust me on this one you hear!
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I see, so everyone using the system is so trustworthy nobody will access the information without authorisation, as has been reported happening repeatedly with just ONE of the latest databases?
Give people a reason to trust you lot, and maybe they will. Telling th TRUTH might be a start.
Give people a reason to trust you lot, and maybe they will. Telling th TRUTH might be a start.
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I think I can unmask you, Johnriketes - you are my local MP ! You rent my garden shed, claiming it as your main residence, and despite what you say you don't trust any pilot to carry contact lens fluid ....
I might change my mind.......
When I started browsing this thread, I was generally in favour of ID cards. When I lived in Belgium I carried one all the time, as did she who must be obeyed, and the children. Thus I start from the "so-what" camp. In my working times, I've been vetted, referenced, and even had plain clothed folk ask the neighbours questions about me and the family. I guess that was something to do with vetting. I know that the powers that be have looked at my financials - the security bloke in one of my employers told me.
Anyway, I am moving firmly out of the "don't care" camp having read this lot. The thought that any of those lying, two-faced politicians, (Harperson, for instance, who wants to break the law over Fred the Shred) having all this access inb to me and mine - or yours, for that matter, is truly scary.
Anyway, I am moving firmly out of the "don't care" camp having read this lot. The thought that any of those lying, two-faced politicians, (Harperson, for instance, who wants to break the law over Fred the Shred) having all this access inb to me and mine - or yours, for that matter, is truly scary.