Ex CityFlyer Routes scrapped by BA
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Secret Squirrel,
Is your info regarding the recent ex-CFE joiners 100% correct? I understood that if you left CFE and joined BA then, as it is part of the BA Group (if you will), you retained your CFE DoJ for Staff Travel purposes, but not for employment as a pilot purposes (ie redundancy etc). No-one is questioning you guys who were 'merged' and have their CFE DoJs for redundancy purposes, but I am curious about those who had actually left CFE and then joined BA quite separately.
And...
Recover
Is your info regarding the recent ex-CFE joiners 100% correct? I understood that if you left CFE and joined BA then, as it is part of the BA Group (if you will), you retained your CFE DoJ for Staff Travel purposes, but not for employment as a pilot purposes (ie redundancy etc). No-one is questioning you guys who were 'merged' and have their CFE DoJs for redundancy purposes, but I am curious about those who had actually left CFE and then joined BA quite separately.
And...
Recover
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To the so called WW2Ace, the VAST MAJORITY of us never even had BA interviews sunshine........BA was for us NOT the be all and end all of life.
Now that I am part of BA - whether it be back/front/sideways doors - I'm happy to do my part to try and turn BA from being a grossly mismanaged company into a profitable place to be.
I didn't leave CFE voluntarily to go fly elsewhere, MY job was MERGED !!, therefore DOJ at CFE is what counts for employment purposes. AS THE LAW STATES matey boy...
Wake up to reality.
Now that I am part of BA - whether it be back/front/sideways doors - I'm happy to do my part to try and turn BA from being a grossly mismanaged company into a profitable place to be.
I didn't leave CFE voluntarily to go fly elsewhere, MY job was MERGED !!, therefore DOJ at CFE is what counts for employment purposes. AS THE LAW STATES matey boy...
Wake up to reality.
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One of the great things about BA is the fact that come rain, hail, sun, war, famine, pestilence, and the downfall of Michael Barrymore, "it never changes". After a 5 year sabbatical it's great to be back.
I feel like Robert Downey Jr returning to the cosy confines of the prison institution after a traumatic time in the real world. Hey, who say's the drugs don't work, more like the BA pilots don't work, not after the issue of a P45. Laugh, I almost bought shares in Swissair.
Harry
I feel like Robert Downey Jr returning to the cosy confines of the prison institution after a traumatic time in the real world. Hey, who say's the drugs don't work, more like the BA pilots don't work, not after the issue of a P45. Laugh, I almost bought shares in Swissair.
Harry
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Onya Ex Servant - am very peeved about the loss of the ORK run - only got to go on it once but having been with EI, FR and BA/CFE, my next time across was to have been to LGW in November. Looks like Mick will get the divs as EI want the shirt off my back when I fly from Cork to LHR. 
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Best of luck to all at CFE given the current mis-management.
Aircraft lease rates are low, and I understand BB et al only have a restriction in place regarding competitive operation with BA until next month....date taken from when BA purchased CFE and not from when the integration was announced. There are lots of opportunities out there!
BB, JB where are you? You could take your pick from a good number of applicants!
Aircraft lease rates are low, and I understand BB et al only have a restriction in place regarding competitive operation with BA until next month....date taken from when BA purchased CFE and not from when the integration was announced. There are lots of opportunities out there!
BB, JB where are you? You could take your pick from a good number of applicants!
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WW11Ace:
You see this is just the sort of thing I am talking about. It just so happens that it is mainly mainline long-haul jobs that are at risk at the moment and will be for the forseeable future. Here we are, new joiners, some even unwilling for reasons various, saying that we will be willing to take pay cuts etc so that you mainline stools keep your jobs, helping all to weather this storm together. Then people like you with their head so far up their own ass, who don't really live in the real world, want to trample us down even more; you would take away our rights under British employment law and leave us out in the cold. SENIORITY MEANS NOTHING UNDER T.U.P.E!
You can stick together as much as you like and have tupperware parties in the Balpa offices if you want, it won't make any difference. However, if if this wasn't the case, you can't oust a 737 pilot and put a 747 pilot in his seat just because the former's seniority number has more digits, it's illegal.
This is the one thing, or aspect, of BA I was often told about: It doesn't matter how much you toe the line or how good your intentions are when you join, sooner or later you will experience their selfishness. Unfortunately for you it is a double edged sword, I don't think mainline guys will "stick together" because they are alright jack!.
Just remember, it's long-haul routes that are under most scrutiny at the moment, not short-haul. For every long-haul flight they cut you lose 800 potential pax; to get that level of cut in SH you need to cut 3-4 routes on a 146 or 737. So please, before you come the union Che Guevara with us, consider what most of us have been saying all along and have some respect: We should pull together and help each other out.
Recover
Yes I was under the same impression but I assure you that this is what a friend of mine assured me. I fell short of asking him to check his contract for me. As I said, I believe that it only applies to those pilots who left CFE in the interim period before April last and when BA actually had ownership of CFE which is well over a year now (isn't it??) I have lost all track of time and sequence lately!
You see this is just the sort of thing I am talking about. It just so happens that it is mainly mainline long-haul jobs that are at risk at the moment and will be for the forseeable future. Here we are, new joiners, some even unwilling for reasons various, saying that we will be willing to take pay cuts etc so that you mainline stools keep your jobs, helping all to weather this storm together. Then people like you with their head so far up their own ass, who don't really live in the real world, want to trample us down even more; you would take away our rights under British employment law and leave us out in the cold. SENIORITY MEANS NOTHING UNDER T.U.P.E!
You can stick together as much as you like and have tupperware parties in the Balpa offices if you want, it won't make any difference. However, if if this wasn't the case, you can't oust a 737 pilot and put a 747 pilot in his seat just because the former's seniority number has more digits, it's illegal.
This is the one thing, or aspect, of BA I was often told about: It doesn't matter how much you toe the line or how good your intentions are when you join, sooner or later you will experience their selfishness. Unfortunately for you it is a double edged sword, I don't think mainline guys will "stick together" because they are alright jack!.
Just remember, it's long-haul routes that are under most scrutiny at the moment, not short-haul. For every long-haul flight they cut you lose 800 potential pax; to get that level of cut in SH you need to cut 3-4 routes on a 146 or 737. So please, before you come the union Che Guevara with us, consider what most of us have been saying all along and have some respect: We should pull together and help each other out.
Recover
Yes I was under the same impression but I assure you that this is what a friend of mine assured me. I fell short of asking him to check his contract for me. As I said, I believe that it only applies to those pilots who left CFE in the interim period before April last and when BA actually had ownership of CFE which is well over a year now (isn't it??) I have lost all track of time and sequence lately!
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Secret Squirrel
You and others may like to hear of interesting goings on at British Airways CitiExpress. As you will know BAR and BACE are to become one. BAR does not have any pilots of it's own; they are all drawn from BA mainline.
The latest plan we hear is that some of these pilots BAR will be starting with BACE in January on the 146. They will take up these positions ahead of those within the company who have been waiting for their chance at the 'big jet'.
BALPA view on all this? Let us just say that at the moment it looks like it well be a case of British Airways Pilots Association!
You and others may like to hear of interesting goings on at British Airways CitiExpress. As you will know BAR and BACE are to become one. BAR does not have any pilots of it's own; they are all drawn from BA mainline.
The latest plan we hear is that some of these pilots BAR will be starting with BACE in January on the 146. They will take up these positions ahead of those within the company who have been waiting for their chance at the 'big jet'.
BALPA view on all this? Let us just say that at the moment it looks like it well be a case of British Airways Pilots Association!
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Secret Squirrel
There are rumours that you might be moving up in the world due to others moving up the road. If these are true then be very careful what you say.
Wasn't it said that when you enter a marriage that it's best to know as little about your spouse as possible.
We have dire management, although the way you account for it and where the profits are made can prove anything.
If those fine people at CFE could manage to make money then maybe they could do at EOG.
Either way I'd be prepared to give them a go. But I would not be prepared to have my nose rubbed in it.
There are rumours that you might be moving up in the world due to others moving up the road. If these are true then be very careful what you say.
Wasn't it said that when you enter a marriage that it's best to know as little about your spouse as possible.
We have dire management, although the way you account for it and where the profits are made can prove anything.
If those fine people at CFE could manage to make money then maybe they could do at EOG.
Either way I'd be prepared to give them a go. But I would not be prepared to have my nose rubbed in it.
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Suggs
What have I said that I might regret?
"Moving up in the world"
Well that rather depends on your point of view, doesn't it? At the moment let's face it, I'm just worried about keeping my job!
I don't want to BA bash, Suggs, but some people are just not helpful.
Al T Meter
We at "ex-CFE" may well be in a similar position in the sense that mainline guys will be able to bid for commands onto our RJs ahead of our long suffering FOs. Of course, our FO's all have mainline contracts and so only a select few (namely the older ones) will have their noses put out of joint about it. It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid and whilst I am of the opinion that Balpa offer certain qualities and benefits, mergers and aquisitions are not their forte.
I feel for those pilots who are going to be displaced and I think that they should make sure that BAR don't get all the aces dealt to them. I'll be interested to see what BA do with them with regards to the seniority lists. It would seem strange to have two companies on seperate contracts and seperate seniority lists in the same subsidiary, don't you think?
[ 09 October 2001: Message edited by: Secret Squirrel ]
What have I said that I might regret?
"Moving up in the world"
Well that rather depends on your point of view, doesn't it? At the moment let's face it, I'm just worried about keeping my job!
I don't want to BA bash, Suggs, but some people are just not helpful.
Al T Meter
We at "ex-CFE" may well be in a similar position in the sense that mainline guys will be able to bid for commands onto our RJs ahead of our long suffering FOs. Of course, our FO's all have mainline contracts and so only a select few (namely the older ones) will have their noses put out of joint about it. It's the nature of the beast, I'm afraid and whilst I am of the opinion that Balpa offer certain qualities and benefits, mergers and aquisitions are not their forte.
I feel for those pilots who are going to be displaced and I think that they should make sure that BAR don't get all the aces dealt to them. I'll be interested to see what BA do with them with regards to the seniority lists. It would seem strange to have two companies on seperate contracts and seperate seniority lists in the same subsidiary, don't you think?
[ 09 October 2001: Message edited by: Secret Squirrel ]
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Squeeking Squirrel.
Whinging Cadets eh!
Sorry mate wasn't me, but surley they have got the right to protect themselves. Several hundred places on the list, not exactly a laughing matter for them. Not their fault BA chose to pay for their training.
Every time i am engaged in this cfe - eog nonsense the Whinging cadet line comes up. I don't have a problem that you had to pay for your ATPL so how about a little mutual respect. I think we fly to the same airfield in the same wx you do mate!
Is main reason your pissed off, and i can only guess,is that a bunch of "19 year olds "(i think that may be attributable to one of your cfe buds) will get their commands outwith the ex-cfe structure before you. If you really wanted that A320 command or the 777 FO slot why didn't you join BA as a DEP?
We are all going to have to work together! So may i suggest that whilst you quite rightly seek to protect yourself and recieve your legal rights, as with every employee in the company, you stop moaning about others doing the exact same.
see you at jub house.
p.s. i believe the chap who volunteered to show you guys around when we all move in together was a 20 year old FO. Please try and be nice to him.
Whinging Cadets eh!
Sorry mate wasn't me, but surley they have got the right to protect themselves. Several hundred places on the list, not exactly a laughing matter for them. Not their fault BA chose to pay for their training.
Every time i am engaged in this cfe - eog nonsense the Whinging cadet line comes up. I don't have a problem that you had to pay for your ATPL so how about a little mutual respect. I think we fly to the same airfield in the same wx you do mate!
Is main reason your pissed off, and i can only guess,is that a bunch of "19 year olds "(i think that may be attributable to one of your cfe buds) will get their commands outwith the ex-cfe structure before you. If you really wanted that A320 command or the 777 FO slot why didn't you join BA as a DEP?
We are all going to have to work together! So may i suggest that whilst you quite rightly seek to protect yourself and recieve your legal rights, as with every employee in the company, you stop moaning about others doing the exact same.
see you at jub house.
p.s. i believe the chap who volunteered to show you guys around when we all move in together was a 20 year old FO. Please try and be nice to him.
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Oh Noddy
I knew it wouldn't be long before some whingeing cadet took offence.
Yes I did use the word whingeing but if you'd read my post correctly you'd notice that I said "more power to them...." My beef was with the way Balpa neglected to inform us about all this until it was too late. Considering that many of those affected have been paying their subs for a good many years as fully paid up members, as opposed to being associate members due to student status; I think that it's a fair to expect Balpa to have favoured us. I think it was a fair comment. Still, it was said to ilustrate a point, which you obviously missed. No matter, you are a cadet afterall and as such will learn.
I do not have a problem with cadets per se; just some whose qualities leave much to be desired and which don't warrant a mention on this thread.
As for your...diagnosis considering the reasons for my bitterness; you're bleeting up the wrong undercarriage leg, my feisty friend. I won't be beaten to a command by a cadet on my fleet. Not unless they are now issuing cadets with time machines. Nice try though.
Incidentally, those cadets we were talking about: I doubt that they would beat me or other colleagues to commands simply because when their time comes, they will have the seniority but not the hours. One thing I will say, though, Noddy: NAHH! I'm going to save it because I'm not an arrogant type at heart; we'll just enjoy the joke between us at ex-CFE.
See Ya in Jub.
BTW, do you think that nice young cadet will polish our shoes while we walk round?
I knew it wouldn't be long before some whingeing cadet took offence.
Yes I did use the word whingeing but if you'd read my post correctly you'd notice that I said "more power to them...." My beef was with the way Balpa neglected to inform us about all this until it was too late. Considering that many of those affected have been paying their subs for a good many years as fully paid up members, as opposed to being associate members due to student status; I think that it's a fair to expect Balpa to have favoured us. I think it was a fair comment. Still, it was said to ilustrate a point, which you obviously missed. No matter, you are a cadet afterall and as such will learn.
I do not have a problem with cadets per se; just some whose qualities leave much to be desired and which don't warrant a mention on this thread.
As for your...diagnosis considering the reasons for my bitterness; you're bleeting up the wrong undercarriage leg, my feisty friend. I won't be beaten to a command by a cadet on my fleet. Not unless they are now issuing cadets with time machines. Nice try though.
Incidentally, those cadets we were talking about: I doubt that they would beat me or other colleagues to commands simply because when their time comes, they will have the seniority but not the hours. One thing I will say, though, Noddy: NAHH! I'm going to save it because I'm not an arrogant type at heart; we'll just enjoy the joke between us at ex-CFE.
See Ya in Jub.
BTW, do you think that nice young cadet will polish our shoes while we walk round?
Squirrel,
at least spell his name right...
...NOODY.
What an attitude for a CityFlyer pilot. Would you have ever gained the platinum stripes if it wasn't for the buyout? We always used to say that BA's employment technique attracted t@ssers, but it now appears that you managed to sneak in through the back door. Maturity lesson required!
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: rhythm method ]
at least spell his name right...
...NOODY.
What an attitude for a CityFlyer pilot. Would you have ever gained the platinum stripes if it wasn't for the buyout? We always used to say that BA's employment technique attracted t@ssers, but it now appears that you managed to sneak in through the back door. Maturity lesson required!
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: rhythm method ]
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first declare my credentials -
ex CFE, joined BA several years ago;
Staff Travel DOJ
ex CFE joining through merger have original DOJ protected for staff travel - fact
Some (about 4) who joined between merger 'decision' and actual 'implementation' have also retained ST DOJ from CFE - fact
Others who joined BA from CFE (without any break of service, v. important!) are now entitled to have s/t DOJ 're-set' to old CFE DOJ. Should be 'approved' within a few months, but is quite clearly laid down in Staff Travel policy Guide etc.
Redundancy
Seniortiy/DOJ issue is only relevant within fleet. If you employ panel beaters and pain sprayers in your body shop and you have too many panel beaters, there is no obligation under any employment legislation to get rid of the 'most junior' (however defined) first across the whole work force. You only have to let the most junior panel beater go.
No way is BA going to make a load of ATR guts redundant and then train up (say) Clasic 747 pilots to replece them! Fact
Morals
Who should 'morally' have to go - the CFE guy with 17 years in flying and 5 years in CFE, a wife and mortgage?
or the Cadet pilot,
or maybe the self sponsored cadet pilot - totally in debt to the tune of 60K
or maybe the ex-CFE guys who left before the merger (like me) and also have 17 years flying 8 years with 'BA/Franchise' and a wife and mortgage?
Answer - there is no answer, moral judgements cant be made on this sort of thing, it has to be by numbers, and Secret Squirell, I guess I'll go before you, but youll go before some cadet maybe, i dont know!
CFE as a great company
Yes it was, and it could also have paid a damn site more, without seriously affecting its profitability. Unfortunetely the moment BA took over it was doomed, and when it loses money in the next few years, what will be the reason- as far as BA management are concerned - yes, that's right, the cost of 'increasing' CFE pilot salaries - makes you sick doesnt it ; theres none so blind as those etc.
ex CFE, joined BA several years ago;
Staff Travel DOJ
ex CFE joining through merger have original DOJ protected for staff travel - fact
Some (about 4) who joined between merger 'decision' and actual 'implementation' have also retained ST DOJ from CFE - fact
Others who joined BA from CFE (without any break of service, v. important!) are now entitled to have s/t DOJ 're-set' to old CFE DOJ. Should be 'approved' within a few months, but is quite clearly laid down in Staff Travel policy Guide etc.
Redundancy
Seniortiy/DOJ issue is only relevant within fleet. If you employ panel beaters and pain sprayers in your body shop and you have too many panel beaters, there is no obligation under any employment legislation to get rid of the 'most junior' (however defined) first across the whole work force. You only have to let the most junior panel beater go.
No way is BA going to make a load of ATR guts redundant and then train up (say) Clasic 747 pilots to replece them! Fact
Morals
Who should 'morally' have to go - the CFE guy with 17 years in flying and 5 years in CFE, a wife and mortgage?
or the Cadet pilot,
or maybe the self sponsored cadet pilot - totally in debt to the tune of 60K
or maybe the ex-CFE guys who left before the merger (like me) and also have 17 years flying 8 years with 'BA/Franchise' and a wife and mortgage?
Answer - there is no answer, moral judgements cant be made on this sort of thing, it has to be by numbers, and Secret Squirell, I guess I'll go before you, but youll go before some cadet maybe, i dont know!
CFE as a great company
Yes it was, and it could also have paid a damn site more, without seriously affecting its profitability. Unfortunetely the moment BA took over it was doomed, and when it loses money in the next few years, what will be the reason- as far as BA management are concerned - yes, that's right, the cost of 'increasing' CFE pilot salaries - makes you sick doesnt it ; theres none so blind as those etc.
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squeeking squirrel.
read my post again.......didn't notice any Airbus on cfe last time i looked!
You are quite right mate, you are safe for your command on your fleet. Not a great rush for rj/atr commands from the rest of us though i don't think! (although i guess everything changes). My piont was that you will only be disadvantaged if you chose to leave what was the cfe set. therefore the whinging cadets were trying to protect themselves for their moves to the lhs/long haul and if your so happy at cfe then stay and your huge sen no will have no bearing. everybody happy no?
News Flash. After their initial type freeze's i think you will find most Cadets have (until 3 weeks ago)the hours for a short haul command at eog!
As for all that nonsense about cadet personnel qualities... who are you victorian FO! Did anyone have the faith in you to give you a passenger jet at 20? Where you ever a bluntie in the forces. haven't heard so much pointless whinging since i left the RAF. You would have made a great OC admin!
i am sure jub house will be a very happy little place for you all to share your EX-cfe jokes. Maybee you'll get together with all the happy Dan air dudes who can't let that go either.
Afraid won't see you at jub. Last one out turn off the lights.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
read my post again.......didn't notice any Airbus on cfe last time i looked!
You are quite right mate, you are safe for your command on your fleet. Not a great rush for rj/atr commands from the rest of us though i don't think! (although i guess everything changes). My piont was that you will only be disadvantaged if you chose to leave what was the cfe set. therefore the whinging cadets were trying to protect themselves for their moves to the lhs/long haul and if your so happy at cfe then stay and your huge sen no will have no bearing. everybody happy no?
News Flash. After their initial type freeze's i think you will find most Cadets have (until 3 weeks ago)the hours for a short haul command at eog!
As for all that nonsense about cadet personnel qualities... who are you victorian FO! Did anyone have the faith in you to give you a passenger jet at 20? Where you ever a bluntie in the forces. haven't heard so much pointless whinging since i left the RAF. You would have made a great OC admin!
i am sure jub house will be a very happy little place for you all to share your EX-cfe jokes. Maybee you'll get together with all the happy Dan air dudes who can't let that go either.
Afraid won't see you at jub. Last one out turn off the lights.
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: NOODY ]
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OOOh, I do enjoy a good bun fight!
Rythm Method
Silence you fool, you don't know what you're talking about. Secret isn't spelt Squeeking either, but I have something you cadets don't have, a sense of humour! STREUTH!
Noddy
Airbus???? Do you cadets go off at tangents on purpose? Is it some ploy to confuse your peers; because it's working! Or is it part of the secret to getting in to BA via THE FRONT DOOR that you have to be cryptic?
Look matey, I don't think I understood a word of your last post. I rarely put a spelling police hat on because we all make mistakes but I do rather draw the line at bad grammar. It's not that I give a sh!t whether you can spell or express yourself; I just simply can't understand what it is you're bleeting about! What does this mean?:
Ahhh! Just sussed it. C'mon, for someone who has managed to hoodwink BA into thinking they're gonna make a good pilot by passing a comprehension test, I'm sure you can write better than that. Anyway, you're still missing the point. But....even if I'd wanted to stay at CFE, I couldn't, so don't make ridiculous sugestions; you're showing your cadet status now; pipe down!
Unfortunate that you choose to be so dismissive of your ex Dan Air colleagues, Noddy. I mean this from the bottom of my heart; I hope you never have to go through the kind of thing they had to go through. It's very easy for a silver spoon cadet such as yourself to treat these guys with contempt; look down on them as if they were a child who didn't know they were born; lucky to have a job and all that crap. many of their colleagues left out in the cold because they happened to be on the wrong fleet. Mostly, I might add, through no fault of the pilots themselves but rather management...again...sounding familiar??? Be very careful, little Mr Arrogant Cadet, about who you treat with contempt and especially what you view them with contempt for!
I note that the ATR fleet are getting several cadets who were tipped to go to LHR. I have to say that in a way I feel sorry for them but adopting your attitude I should be saying: "Bloody lucky to have a job at all, if you ask me".
Anyway, Noddy, do keep in touch, won't you?
Rythm Method
Silence you fool, you don't know what you're talking about. Secret isn't spelt Squeeking either, but I have something you cadets don't have, a sense of humour! STREUTH!
Noddy
Airbus???? Do you cadets go off at tangents on purpose? Is it some ploy to confuse your peers; because it's working! Or is it part of the secret to getting in to BA via THE FRONT DOOR that you have to be cryptic?
Look matey, I don't think I understood a word of your last post. I rarely put a spelling police hat on because we all make mistakes but I do rather draw the line at bad grammar. It's not that I give a sh!t whether you can spell or express yourself; I just simply can't understand what it is you're bleeting about! What does this mean?:
...if your so happy at cfe then stay and your huge sen no will have no bearing. everybody happy no?
Unfortunate that you choose to be so dismissive of your ex Dan Air colleagues, Noddy. I mean this from the bottom of my heart; I hope you never have to go through the kind of thing they had to go through. It's very easy for a silver spoon cadet such as yourself to treat these guys with contempt; look down on them as if they were a child who didn't know they were born; lucky to have a job and all that crap. many of their colleagues left out in the cold because they happened to be on the wrong fleet. Mostly, I might add, through no fault of the pilots themselves but rather management...again...sounding familiar??? Be very careful, little Mr Arrogant Cadet, about who you treat with contempt and especially what you view them with contempt for!
I note that the ATR fleet are getting several cadets who were tipped to go to LHR. I have to say that in a way I feel sorry for them but adopting your attitude I should be saying: "Bloody lucky to have a job at all, if you ask me".
Anyway, Noddy, do keep in touch, won't you?
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Al T Meter
Uninformed claptrap. BAR pilots are mainline and will stay with the 737/A319 until the end. Then they will go to London. There will be no BAR pilots flying BACE 146s because:
1. We work for BA, not BACE.
2. We wouldn't downgrade to BACE T&Cs
There is certainly no means within BA to direct trained, type-rate pilots off their current fleet on to the fleet of a different AOC holder. Plus who the heck wants to downgrade from an Airbus to a 146?
Secret squirrel
I dont think rhythm method is a cadet. From other posts he seems to work for BRAL and is feeling particularly smug regarding the BAR merger. If that is the case then he fails to realise he is merely embarking on a downward spiral for his terms and conditions, cos BACE are going to inherit our managers and soon he'll be too expensive too! Suggest you check out his profile before biting!
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]
Uninformed claptrap. BAR pilots are mainline and will stay with the 737/A319 until the end. Then they will go to London. There will be no BAR pilots flying BACE 146s because:
1. We work for BA, not BACE.
2. We wouldn't downgrade to BACE T&Cs
There is certainly no means within BA to direct trained, type-rate pilots off their current fleet on to the fleet of a different AOC holder. Plus who the heck wants to downgrade from an Airbus to a 146?
Secret squirrel
I dont think rhythm method is a cadet. From other posts he seems to work for BRAL and is feeling particularly smug regarding the BAR merger. If that is the case then he fails to realise he is merely embarking on a downward spiral for his terms and conditions, cos BACE are going to inherit our managers and soon he'll be too expensive too! Suggest you check out his profile before biting!
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Hand Solo ]
Hand Solo,
well spotted. Squirrel, little boy, I'm not a cadet. The more I read some of your other posts the more I realise that your immaturity shines through so brightly that you're blinded from the facts (or is it that the sun shines out of your @ss!?)
Back to the more intellectual contributor. Hand Solo, believe me I'm not smug at this BAR merger. In fact right now I wish we'd never been bought out by BA. I can only see the bad in it. I won't go into the detail on this open forum, but as posted on the BACE forum I will lose out by BAR (seconded BA mainline) pilots being seconded onto our fleets. Believe me, our management have basically said it's on the cards. Perhaps if you lot put up a sufficiently strong fight from your side you can help us out by stopping the move. (Seriously, coming off a state of the art Airbus onto a steam-driven clockwork 146 going flat-out at M0.7 can't be too appealing to you (but we love it)).
I agree that if you are seconded to us, I don't see how you can legally be forced into accepting our lower T+C's at BACE, but watch them try it.
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: rhythm method ]
well spotted. Squirrel, little boy, I'm not a cadet. The more I read some of your other posts the more I realise that your immaturity shines through so brightly that you're blinded from the facts (or is it that the sun shines out of your @ss!?)
Back to the more intellectual contributor. Hand Solo, believe me I'm not smug at this BAR merger. In fact right now I wish we'd never been bought out by BA. I can only see the bad in it. I won't go into the detail on this open forum, but as posted on the BACE forum I will lose out by BAR (seconded BA mainline) pilots being seconded onto our fleets. Believe me, our management have basically said it's on the cards. Perhaps if you lot put up a sufficiently strong fight from your side you can help us out by stopping the move. (Seriously, coming off a state of the art Airbus onto a steam-driven clockwork 146 going flat-out at M0.7 can't be too appealing to you (but we love it)).
I agree that if you are seconded to us, I don't see how you can legally be forced into accepting our lower T+C's at BACE, but watch them try it.
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: rhythm method ]
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Not my place to interfere in anybody else's bun fight, but I just cant't bare it any longer.
Noody, old chap
If you had read SS's first reply to your posts properly, you would have realised that his command is safe because HE ALREADY HAS HIS COMMAND !!!.
There, I feel better now.
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Super Stall ]
Noody, old chap
You are quite right mate, you are safe for your command on your fleet. Not a great rush for rj/atr commands from the rest of us though i don't think! (although i guess everything changes).
There, I feel better now.
[ 12 October 2001: Message edited by: Super Stall ]