Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Total loss of temper here. This is a pilot's web site and I am heartily sick of the non-aviators with their ignorant contributions. "over paid bus drivers." Just try and get our qualifications and experience. Better yet just try and get through the weeding out processes. As for our pay I'm one of the lucky ones. I feel mighty sorry for many of my colleagues.
Litebulbs I set the standards with my professionalism and my skills. Arriving at the aircraft angry and stressed because of the utter stupidity of our current system is not good for my concentration or your safety. And please don't forget that we might go through the nausea several times a day.
Before training as a pilot I was an infantry officer and served in some remarkably unfriendly places. From my own knowledge of security systems and methods I believe the bad guys are winning. They have us by the balls because our political leaders don't have the courage or common sense to introduce positive screening in terminals or to see how poor perimeter security is at airports.
Not very long ago a touch of Irish in your accent guaranteed you a tug from security. I never once heard a complaint about that. Now people are s**t scared of upsetting a moslem minority. Well the Irish were and are a minority too aren't they? Or does/did their skin colour/various religeons make it ok?
Rant over (Really p***ed off by security at a certain midlands airport this morning)
VH
Litebulbs I set the standards with my professionalism and my skills. Arriving at the aircraft angry and stressed because of the utter stupidity of our current system is not good for my concentration or your safety. And please don't forget that we might go through the nausea several times a day.
Before training as a pilot I was an infantry officer and served in some remarkably unfriendly places. From my own knowledge of security systems and methods I believe the bad guys are winning. They have us by the balls because our political leaders don't have the courage or common sense to introduce positive screening in terminals or to see how poor perimeter security is at airports.
Not very long ago a touch of Irish in your accent guaranteed you a tug from security. I never once heard a complaint about that. Now people are s**t scared of upsetting a moslem minority. Well the Irish were and are a minority too aren't they? Or does/did their skin colour/various religeons make it ok?
Rant over (Really p***ed off by security at a certain midlands airport this morning)
VH
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the most laughable aspects of crew security is the lack of consistancy and joined up thinking: given the recent coverage of the baggage chaos in Rome consider what a local security edict means in practical terms
You are operating a 3 sector day from the UK, finishing in Rome, your home for the next 4 nights, so you go with your bags to the crew security entrance.
"New rule, you have to check your crew bag in" !!
Presumably the luminaries in the security department have taken into account that getting the whole crew to the terminal at FCO and back to the stand within the 45 minute turnaround is unlikely, and that the chance of them having their crew bags with them when they return is close to zero !
So, the crew stands around on the tarmac at destination to grab their bags from the handlers as they are unloaded, and restows them in the crew compartment to fly back to the same UK airport.
Like we have nothing better to do !
And how does this in any way increase the safety of the travelling public ???
You are operating a 3 sector day from the UK, finishing in Rome, your home for the next 4 nights, so you go with your bags to the crew security entrance.
"New rule, you have to check your crew bag in" !!
Presumably the luminaries in the security department have taken into account that getting the whole crew to the terminal at FCO and back to the stand within the 45 minute turnaround is unlikely, and that the chance of them having their crew bags with them when they return is close to zero !
So, the crew stands around on the tarmac at destination to grab their bags from the handlers as they are unloaded, and restows them in the crew compartment to fly back to the same UK airport.
Like we have nothing better to do !
And how does this in any way increase the safety of the travelling public ???
Rotate on this!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 64
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Arriving at the aircraft angry and stressed because of the utter stupidity of our current system is not good for my concentration or your safety. "
You get 'angry and stressed'???
P*ssed off I can understand but if you are 'angry and stressed' then I suggest for all our sakes you pack the job in pal.
I think nurses on A&E are entitled to be 'angry and stressed'....but you having to take your shoes off......nah.
You get 'angry and stressed'???
P*ssed off I can understand but if you are 'angry and stressed' then I suggest for all our sakes you pack the job in pal.
I think nurses on A&E are entitled to be 'angry and stressed'....but you having to take your shoes off......nah.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A bit like "Baggage left unattended will be removed and may be destroyed"
Imagine my surprise when upon arrival at LHR Terrible One I wandered off the Novembers into the baggage reclaim to see a mountain of baggage left unattended at both the BA and BMI desks, both of which......were unattended.
Security is a farce and you have my utmost sympathy. I struggle to contain myself as a passenger with these absurd rules once a week. My heart goes out to you every day, because that drip, drip drip of stupidity will have a corrosive effect on your life.
Imagine my surprise when upon arrival at LHR Terrible One I wandered off the Novembers into the baggage reclaim to see a mountain of baggage left unattended at both the BA and BMI desks, both of which......were unattended.
Security is a farce and you have my utmost sympathy. I struggle to contain myself as a passenger with these absurd rules once a week. My heart goes out to you every day, because that drip, drip drip of stupidity will have a corrosive effect on your life.
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLFGuy you try it three or four times a day see if you aren't stressed by the unnecesary delays you get put through. And always in the background the pressure to get the aircraft prepared, keep to slot times and above all not miss anything that may compromise the safety of the flight.
Lets face it if we go off the end of the runway, mis-read a sid in briefing or f*** up in any of the thousand and one ways available the human factor of the crew were held up in security and only just made it to the aircraft in time will not be brought out in our defence.
We recently experimented at one airport by sending half our pilots through security in civvy clothes for a week (basically covering up white shirts and no badges or braid visible). Oddly they all got to the aircraft faster than their uniformed colleagues. Personally I don't have a problem with removing my shoes just with being forced into a crowded bottleneck which is a magnificent target and then seeing and experiencing the utter stupidity of the current system.
As for ER nurses I go home to one. She like me is angry at idiocy from people ignorant of her job and trying to tell her how to do it. Otherwise we both love what we do.
VH
Lets face it if we go off the end of the runway, mis-read a sid in briefing or f*** up in any of the thousand and one ways available the human factor of the crew were held up in security and only just made it to the aircraft in time will not be brought out in our defence.
We recently experimented at one airport by sending half our pilots through security in civvy clothes for a week (basically covering up white shirts and no badges or braid visible). Oddly they all got to the aircraft faster than their uniformed colleagues. Personally I don't have a problem with removing my shoes just with being forced into a crowded bottleneck which is a magnificent target and then seeing and experiencing the utter stupidity of the current system.
As for ER nurses I go home to one. She like me is angry at idiocy from people ignorant of her job and trying to tell her how to do it. Otherwise we both love what we do.
VH
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Verticalhold,
I take it from your Brown job days you were one of the 'over the top and at 'em guys' In another life I was a Blue job and still remember a 'Professional' of airfield security, i.e. R.A. F. Regiment (they, for the uninformed, whose job is to defend airfields, -all others, excuse egg sucking lesson), who stated on a briefing that 'It is impossible to secure the perimeter of an airfield. It would require too many personnel. You can only select strategic buildings and areas to defend.' And, this is from the days when we didn't know everybody by name in the R.A.F., unlike today.
I say this to you, not to knock your knowledge of security systems but, to agree with you that the lords and masters of government need to stand up, take some flak and segregate the minorities who are suspected as potential 'bad guys'. They were quick enough to do it in Northern Ireland in the 70s, but I suppose they were doing it to Brits (mainly) and, that was allowed.
My solution is to get professionals to lay down a sensible, working set of conditions. Train the front line staff properly to use a little common sense, even pay them a proper wage so they just might take an interest in the job. and make the airports, working environments for the purpose of moving freight, SL or otherwise efficiently. Safety and security doesn't have to be exercised under great tension, awareness is the word that springs to mind.
I take it from your Brown job days you were one of the 'over the top and at 'em guys' In another life I was a Blue job and still remember a 'Professional' of airfield security, i.e. R.A. F. Regiment (they, for the uninformed, whose job is to defend airfields, -all others, excuse egg sucking lesson), who stated on a briefing that 'It is impossible to secure the perimeter of an airfield. It would require too many personnel. You can only select strategic buildings and areas to defend.' And, this is from the days when we didn't know everybody by name in the R.A.F., unlike today.
I say this to you, not to knock your knowledge of security systems but, to agree with you that the lords and masters of government need to stand up, take some flak and segregate the minorities who are suspected as potential 'bad guys'. They were quick enough to do it in Northern Ireland in the 70s, but I suppose they were doing it to Brits (mainly) and, that was allowed.
My solution is to get professionals to lay down a sensible, working set of conditions. Train the front line staff properly to use a little common sense, even pay them a proper wage so they just might take an interest in the job. and make the airports, working environments for the purpose of moving freight, SL or otherwise efficiently. Safety and security doesn't have to be exercised under great tension, awareness is the word that springs to mind.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SE UK
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Uk security searches pointless?
Now I always thought us as crew being searched so thoroughly and being subject to the same requirements was a load of crap. Now it seems the outgoing BAA chap thinks event the pax screening isn't working!!!
Is it going to change.........ever?
d2k. stressed at crew security.
http://www.contingencytoday.com/onli...and-Faster/483
Is it going to change.........ever?
d2k. stressed at crew security.
http://www.contingencytoday.com/onli...and-Faster/483
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: SE UK
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeh i guess, but this
"BAA's own former head of security and now consultant to foreign authorities, Norman Shanks, criticised the high level of hand-searching done "just to meet a target ratio". He believed that the requirement to hand search 50 per cent of departing passengers (which the Department of Transport refuses to confirm publicly) might actually reduce rather than enhance security, because of the impossible level of constant alertness demanded of security staff, whose attention would inevitably waver".
I just figured the reduce security angle was his view of it not working. Not in his words though I guess.
"BAA's own former head of security and now consultant to foreign authorities, Norman Shanks, criticised the high level of hand-searching done "just to meet a target ratio". He believed that the requirement to hand search 50 per cent of departing passengers (which the Department of Transport refuses to confirm publicly) might actually reduce rather than enhance security, because of the impossible level of constant alertness demanded of security staff, whose attention would inevitably waver".
I just figured the reduce security angle was his view of it not working. Not in his words though I guess.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: third rock from the sun
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear busty bird,
As said by somebody above, there is no need to call us overpaid bus drivers. One because most pilots are definately underpaid. And two because this still is a pilots bulletin board. Now I see that you are a ground ops manager. I would most welcome you to state your opinion on the board, since even though you are not a pilot you would have interesting knowledge of the ground side of aviation. But if that opinion is that we are stupid idiots then I cannot appreciate this and I would strongly suggest you to not write this.
I assume that your opinion of pilots is based on experience with someone, and I am sorry if your encounter with some pilot was that bad, but not all pilots are stupid. There are very sensible individuals out there who respect all people doing the job for to make the flight happen as well as their passengers. I wish to think that I respect the ground crew that is supporting me from the gate agent to the fueller to the guy who cleans the toilet. I just hope that you can extend the same politeness to me.
Many thanks!
As said by somebody above, there is no need to call us overpaid bus drivers. One because most pilots are definately underpaid. And two because this still is a pilots bulletin board. Now I see that you are a ground ops manager. I would most welcome you to state your opinion on the board, since even though you are not a pilot you would have interesting knowledge of the ground side of aviation. But if that opinion is that we are stupid idiots then I cannot appreciate this and I would strongly suggest you to not write this.
I assume that your opinion of pilots is based on experience with someone, and I am sorry if your encounter with some pilot was that bad, but not all pilots are stupid. There are very sensible individuals out there who respect all people doing the job for to make the flight happen as well as their passengers. I wish to think that I respect the ground crew that is supporting me from the gate agent to the fueller to the guy who cleans the toilet. I just hope that you can extend the same politeness to me.
Many thanks!
As very regular SLF I find the security mania bad enough so can only imagine how it feels to you who face it every day. Anyway, the point of my post: a recent issue of Private Eye noted that one of the UK government's newly appointed security leaders (I forget which and have lost the magazine) also sits on the board of a business that makes money selling security services. Yes, the bad guys are out there but how are we supposed to have faith in civil servants and politicians when they operate like this?
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dunno ... what day is it?
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rsugitt
It seems to be you lacking the imagination. The only point in attacking aviation is the extra damage due to the aircraft's energy. Blowing up something on the ground in an airport is no more effective than blowing up something somewhere else. Why on earth would a terrorist go through the effort and risk of getting stopped by going airside, to an almost-deserted apron, when he could kill far more people in Tesco?
Litebulbs
Don't talk about what you don't understand. I know commercial pilots who earn less than average wage. You can trust your life to them every time you fly. They are professionals. What help is there to anyone making them go through passenger security checks?
It seems to be you lacking the imagination. The only point in attacking aviation is the extra damage due to the aircraft's energy. Blowing up something on the ground in an airport is no more effective than blowing up something somewhere else. Why on earth would a terrorist go through the effort and risk of getting stopped by going airside, to an almost-deserted apron, when he could kill far more people in Tesco?
Litebulbs
Don't talk about what you don't understand. I know commercial pilots who earn less than average wage. You can trust your life to them every time you fly. They are professionals. What help is there to anyone making them go through passenger security checks?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not in the ivory tower
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fortuna 76,
I do apologise fully for a very unnecessary comment about pilots......I do respect that it is not an easy job - honestly I'm just starting out with my PPL..
Yes I had had a bad day and had to deal with a very very rude Capt who seemed to think it was perfectly acceptable for me to risk my job by ignoring the current security rules to suit him. He wasn't a nice man and he did seem to think he was far more important than any other person walking this earth, and I was not prepared to ignore the fact that he had been abusive to a member of staff. But it is wrong for me to take that out on any other pilot that happens to be out there - and yes there are plenty out there that are very nice and several that I am very good mates with.
So SORRY, honestly it was wrong SORRY!
In just the same way there are plenty of security staff that are a pain in the bloody arse too I know, but lots that are just doing their best to do a good job.
Security staffing is all about getting numbers through the door now - not about quality at all. And while it's run by airports who are far more interested in trying to make money out of more and more shops that in security it will remain the same.
I'm not sure about the 'use your common sense' and 'don't just stick to the rules' still. I would love to have that luxury - but it is part of my job (sorry not updated my profile ever, I'm not ops controller but Terminal Manager) to ensure that the current security restrictions are enforced and that we comply to the legislation that is served on the Airport by the DfT. Believe me when I can I do try to 'bend' the rules.....but there is only so far that I can go. I constantly have the DfT breathing down my neck doing covert tests and giving out a bollocking as soon as look at you...like when 6 passengers in the last hour passed through OBC with 2 pieces of hand baggage - like that was likely to be putting everyone at a huge risk!???
I do do what I can but I can't change the rules and I don't have the luxury to be able to ignore them - it could easily cost me my job.
What's the answer? Do I start a one man rebellion and just decide that the security restrictions should just be ignored? Doubt I'd last the day out...
OK - Quick question for you. Since 9/11 the use of Flight Deck jump seats for non-op crew or anyone else was banned - DfT Direction on the Airlines. So you guys up front cannot take your wife / girlfriend / husband / kids on the flight deck to see you doing your job.......
Does it happen still, sometimes maybe, probably - but if flight deck are caught what are the consequences? Recently DfT inspector found a Captains 7 year old son in the jump seat before pushback. Capt was reported to his company and was suspended pending full investigation
, luckily he kept his job...(good mate of mine)
Stupid rule - of course it is, but would you ignore it? Maybe you would, a bit of a random comparison I know... but I'm interested.
I think the most frustrating thing is that the current security of Airports is far more about PR and making the public believe they are safer than actually making it safer!
As I think someone has said it's more aout money than a lot of people realise - selling x-rays, AMDs etc is big business.
So what do we do??? I don't know - except take 3 weeks off work and not think about it for a while! So that's what I'm doing. (and not a plane either....can't stand all the bloody queues at Airport Security!)
Lets just try to be a bit nicer to each other!!
I do apologise fully for a very unnecessary comment about pilots......I do respect that it is not an easy job - honestly I'm just starting out with my PPL..
Yes I had had a bad day and had to deal with a very very rude Capt who seemed to think it was perfectly acceptable for me to risk my job by ignoring the current security rules to suit him. He wasn't a nice man and he did seem to think he was far more important than any other person walking this earth, and I was not prepared to ignore the fact that he had been abusive to a member of staff. But it is wrong for me to take that out on any other pilot that happens to be out there - and yes there are plenty out there that are very nice and several that I am very good mates with.
So SORRY, honestly it was wrong SORRY!
In just the same way there are plenty of security staff that are a pain in the bloody arse too I know, but lots that are just doing their best to do a good job.
Security staffing is all about getting numbers through the door now - not about quality at all. And while it's run by airports who are far more interested in trying to make money out of more and more shops that in security it will remain the same.
I'm not sure about the 'use your common sense' and 'don't just stick to the rules' still. I would love to have that luxury - but it is part of my job (sorry not updated my profile ever, I'm not ops controller but Terminal Manager) to ensure that the current security restrictions are enforced and that we comply to the legislation that is served on the Airport by the DfT. Believe me when I can I do try to 'bend' the rules.....but there is only so far that I can go. I constantly have the DfT breathing down my neck doing covert tests and giving out a bollocking as soon as look at you...like when 6 passengers in the last hour passed through OBC with 2 pieces of hand baggage - like that was likely to be putting everyone at a huge risk!???
I do do what I can but I can't change the rules and I don't have the luxury to be able to ignore them - it could easily cost me my job.
What's the answer? Do I start a one man rebellion and just decide that the security restrictions should just be ignored? Doubt I'd last the day out...
OK - Quick question for you. Since 9/11 the use of Flight Deck jump seats for non-op crew or anyone else was banned - DfT Direction on the Airlines. So you guys up front cannot take your wife / girlfriend / husband / kids on the flight deck to see you doing your job.......
Does it happen still, sometimes maybe, probably - but if flight deck are caught what are the consequences? Recently DfT inspector found a Captains 7 year old son in the jump seat before pushback. Capt was reported to his company and was suspended pending full investigation
, luckily he kept his job...(good mate of mine)Stupid rule - of course it is, but would you ignore it? Maybe you would, a bit of a random comparison I know... but I'm interested.
I think the most frustrating thing is that the current security of Airports is far more about PR and making the public believe they are safer than actually making it safer!
As I think someone has said it's more aout money than a lot of people realise - selling x-rays, AMDs etc is big business.
So what do we do??? I don't know - except take 3 weeks off work and not think about it for a while! So that's what I'm doing. (and not a plane either....can't stand all the bloody queues at Airport Security!)
Lets just try to be a bit nicer to each other!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dunno ... what day is it?
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Busty Bird
Would you agree, that there is aserious problem with the current security rules? That seems to be the main problem here. Some of the staff are rude or irrational (I have met them) but it would help a lot if they employed competent staff under sensible rules, rather than whoever pitches up, so needing inflexible rules.
Would you agree, that there is aserious problem with the current security rules? That seems to be the main problem here. Some of the staff are rude or irrational (I have met them) but it would help a lot if they employed competent staff under sensible rules, rather than whoever pitches up, so needing inflexible rules.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not in the ivory tower
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I would agree......
The use of 'discretion' is the hardest thing to train people in - any many will not use it if not paid enough to take the 'risk' as they see it. And also true there are many that are just not capable of it and need the world to be black and white because grey is just too hard for them.
I do think much of the security restrictions are stupid and many since August 10th last year where a ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a plot by one group of nutters using liquid explosives...
I would much rather see a much more capable security staffing - less focused on tubes of bloody tooth paste and more on the profiling of specific passengers. These selectees should not just be people that had pissed off the check-in staff which happens half the time now, but those that fit the current 'threat profiles'.
And yes believe me I'd rather they stopped wasting there time on crews - as long as identities are confirmed before entry in to RZ...
As has been mentioned - whether it was right or not during IRA troubles the movement of Irish and all those pax going to and from Ireland was under the spotlight - still is actually with everyone travelling on CTA flts being recorded on film.
So why can this not be the same today - because it's not politically correct? Because the government is too scared to be seen to be singling a certain group, religion or ethnic minority?? I think so.
Not all Irish people were terrorist - but the IRA were Irish terrorists and the threat at the time.
Not all muslims are terrorists - but that is where the current threat and terrorists are coming from.
The use of 'discretion' is the hardest thing to train people in - any many will not use it if not paid enough to take the 'risk' as they see it. And also true there are many that are just not capable of it and need the world to be black and white because grey is just too hard for them.
I do think much of the security restrictions are stupid and many since August 10th last year where a ill thought out knee jerk reaction to a plot by one group of nutters using liquid explosives...
I would much rather see a much more capable security staffing - less focused on tubes of bloody tooth paste and more on the profiling of specific passengers. These selectees should not just be people that had pissed off the check-in staff which happens half the time now, but those that fit the current 'threat profiles'.
And yes believe me I'd rather they stopped wasting there time on crews - as long as identities are confirmed before entry in to RZ...
As has been mentioned - whether it was right or not during IRA troubles the movement of Irish and all those pax going to and from Ireland was under the spotlight - still is actually with everyone travelling on CTA flts being recorded on film.
So why can this not be the same today - because it's not politically correct? Because the government is too scared to be seen to be singling a certain group, religion or ethnic minority?? I think so.
Not all Irish people were terrorist - but the IRA were Irish terrorists and the threat at the time.
Not all muslims are terrorists - but that is where the current threat and terrorists are coming from.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Morton-in-Marsh
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, I think we are all agreed: the current situation is often intolerable and unacceptable. (Verticalhold, I agree with you entirely).
So what is the solution? A bit radical, perhaps, but I think BALPA should call a strike, and/or airline pilots generally go on strike, to protest against what is happening.
It would be a brave course of action (foolhardy, I can hear many saying), but what other way is there to make the point. No one is listening at the moment. Pilots are supposed to be dignified, honourable, and intelligent people, but they are often treated like dirt by some security people.
So there are two problems to attend to: the basic process in the first place, and the odd bit of scum working for security.
I really think there should be a move beyond just complaining, otherwise nothing will happen.
So what is the solution? A bit radical, perhaps, but I think BALPA should call a strike, and/or airline pilots generally go on strike, to protest against what is happening.
It would be a brave course of action (foolhardy, I can hear many saying), but what other way is there to make the point. No one is listening at the moment. Pilots are supposed to be dignified, honourable, and intelligent people, but they are often treated like dirt by some security people.
So there are two problems to attend to: the basic process in the first place, and the odd bit of scum working for security.
I really think there should be a move beyond just complaining, otherwise nothing will happen.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Not in the ivory tower
Age: 47
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strike action - a bit harsh maybe.
As for the complaining - yes but to the right people......
If you are treated badly by a member of security staff yes request to speak to the spvr or team leader...it is not acceptable and should be dealt with.
Believe me managing hundreds of staff on a security section isn't easy and they are far from perfect. But just remember they are having to deal with complaints from pax and crews and staff and anyone else that has an opinion of security....
If it's about the actual process or restrictions it needs to be directed to the ones that come up with the daft rules in the first place - Department of Transport, Government I don't.....but not to the staff that most of the time agree with you!
As for the complaining - yes but to the right people......
If you are treated badly by a member of security staff yes request to speak to the spvr or team leader...it is not acceptable and should be dealt with.
Believe me managing hundreds of staff on a security section isn't easy and they are far from perfect. But just remember they are having to deal with complaints from pax and crews and staff and anyone else that has an opinion of security....
If it's about the actual process or restrictions it needs to be directed to the ones that come up with the daft rules in the first place - Department of Transport, Government I don't.....but not to the staff that most of the time agree with you!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Age: 46
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello, everyone!
I agree with BustyBird, I work in the same airport, and I see these security people dealing with problems every minute. Itīs not only crew complaining about being screened like passengers, itīs also passengers who think that they are living gods because they travel in business class or they hold whatever gold airmiles card.
As BustyBird said, there are certain rules that they must follow, because thatīs what their contract says. they havenīt got the power to bend these rules and they must stick to them. But the rules are general, they are not specific to a group of people. The rule says "Liquid containers of more than 100 ml are not allowed airside through passenger and crew checkpoints", so itīs the bottle thatīs not allowed, irrespective of the person carrying it. They have separated screening rules for catering and shopsīsupplies (money talks), but as long as you are going through a passenger or crew security control, the problem is still the bottle, not who you are.
Of course you may find that these rules are ridiculous. In some ways they actually are. But the rules are set up by a bunch of people in their ivory towers (headquartersīoffices) with no connection with the real world we live in. They just have to come up with new ideas to make clear they have been there, working for the company, and then, well, if the ideas work, they get a bonus, if they donīt work, they resign and get a nice pay-off. Itīs all about market rules applied to security. But we people in the terminal donīt make the rules, we are just paid to stick to them. Donīt tell me that we should use our common sense, please, because we canīt. If I board an aircraft and the cabin crew start doing their safety procedures briefing about life jackets, I donīt tell them "donīt be ridiculous! We will not be flying over the sea!", because thatīs something they have to do following the rules, and they canīt just avoid it even if they think itīs nonsense, I am aware that they still have to do it.
So letīs take it easy on these security boys and girls. OK, a few of them may need some courtesy and politeness lessons, but then again, so do some of my colleagues, and that doesnīt make every one of us an unprofessional bully. I work with them on a daily basis, and yes, I have to go through security about 4-6 times a day, but most of the times, they are polite and correct.
Good night everyone. Iīll take my shoes off again tomorrow morning at the terminal.
Cr4zy
I agree with BustyBird, I work in the same airport, and I see these security people dealing with problems every minute. Itīs not only crew complaining about being screened like passengers, itīs also passengers who think that they are living gods because they travel in business class or they hold whatever gold airmiles card.
As BustyBird said, there are certain rules that they must follow, because thatīs what their contract says. they havenīt got the power to bend these rules and they must stick to them. But the rules are general, they are not specific to a group of people. The rule says "Liquid containers of more than 100 ml are not allowed airside through passenger and crew checkpoints", so itīs the bottle thatīs not allowed, irrespective of the person carrying it. They have separated screening rules for catering and shopsīsupplies (money talks), but as long as you are going through a passenger or crew security control, the problem is still the bottle, not who you are.
Of course you may find that these rules are ridiculous. In some ways they actually are. But the rules are set up by a bunch of people in their ivory towers (headquartersīoffices) with no connection with the real world we live in. They just have to come up with new ideas to make clear they have been there, working for the company, and then, well, if the ideas work, they get a bonus, if they donīt work, they resign and get a nice pay-off. Itīs all about market rules applied to security. But we people in the terminal donīt make the rules, we are just paid to stick to them. Donīt tell me that we should use our common sense, please, because we canīt. If I board an aircraft and the cabin crew start doing their safety procedures briefing about life jackets, I donīt tell them "donīt be ridiculous! We will not be flying over the sea!", because thatīs something they have to do following the rules, and they canīt just avoid it even if they think itīs nonsense, I am aware that they still have to do it.
So letīs take it easy on these security boys and girls. OK, a few of them may need some courtesy and politeness lessons, but then again, so do some of my colleagues, and that doesnīt make every one of us an unprofessional bully. I work with them on a daily basis, and yes, I have to go through security about 4-6 times a day, but most of the times, they are polite and correct.
Good night everyone. Iīll take my shoes off again tomorrow morning at the terminal.
Cr4zy
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Busty,
One of our Captains was sacked just recently for allowing a relative of his on the Jump seat on a flight to XYZ.
Flight deck visits are only allowed AFTER we have landed and taxied on to stand.
BR.
One of our Captains was sacked just recently for allowing a relative of his on the Jump seat on a flight to XYZ.
Flight deck visits are only allowed AFTER we have landed and taxied on to stand.
BR.
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James A;
I tried not to be too over the top and at 'em. Think Captain Blackadder rather than Lord Flasheart! It amazes me that what your RAF Reg colleague said still holds and appears to be ignored by the powers that be.
Some of the security staff I deal with are utter delights, strangely they tend to be retired police/military who have the maturity and humour to carry out their duties and leave the passengers/ staff involved feeling that there has been no imposition and that they have not been inconvenienced. The younger security staff with little self confidence and less knowledge of what they are really doing seem, to me to be where the problems arise.
Someone said on an earlier thread on this subject that maybe we should get the military to take over the security process. Great idea unfortunately most of them are too busy elsewhere!
VH
I tried not to be too over the top and at 'em. Think Captain Blackadder rather than Lord Flasheart! It amazes me that what your RAF Reg colleague said still holds and appears to be ignored by the powers that be.
Some of the security staff I deal with are utter delights, strangely they tend to be retired police/military who have the maturity and humour to carry out their duties and leave the passengers/ staff involved feeling that there has been no imposition and that they have not been inconvenienced. The younger security staff with little self confidence and less knowledge of what they are really doing seem, to me to be where the problems arise.
Someone said on an earlier thread on this subject that maybe we should get the military to take over the security process. Great idea unfortunately most of them are too busy elsewhere!
VH