Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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UK Screening only benefits BAA...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6922992.stm
Seems that IATA thinks that UK airport screening only benefits the airport operators and doesn't improve security.
I guess this probably needs to end up tacked on a previous security thread, but for a few hours it's news of a sort.
Seems that IATA thinks that UK airport screening only benefits the airport operators and doesn't improve security.
I guess this probably needs to end up tacked on a previous security thread, but for a few hours it's news of a sort.
"A particular focus will be the UK, where unique screening policies inconvenience passengers with no improvement in security.
"The only beneficiary is the airport operator BAA that continues to deliver embarrassingly low service levels by failing to invest in appropriate equipment and staff to meet demand. This must stop."
"The only beneficiary is the airport operator BAA that continues to deliver embarrassingly low service levels by failing to invest in appropriate equipment and staff to meet demand. This must stop."
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I always wondered why my suit carrier suddenly seemed to be highly explosive having been through LGW or LHR for several years.
I always wondered why five years of not taking my laptop out of my hand baggage at LGW and LHR suddenly became a risk to other passengers.
Perhaps they will allow me to carry the DFDR in my hand luggage again as they lost the last one I was forced to check-in at LHR. Always good for flight safety this security stuff.
But there again, I'm just self loading freight that pays the wages 250 times a year.
I always wondered why five years of not taking my laptop out of my hand baggage at LGW and LHR suddenly became a risk to other passengers.
Perhaps they will allow me to carry the DFDR in my hand luggage again as they lost the last one I was forced to check-in at LHR. Always good for flight safety this security stuff.
But there again, I'm just self loading freight that pays the wages 250 times a year.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Sunday at Lisbon
Kudos to the Thomsonfly captain and crew who
bought us back Sunday Lunchtime (767-200)
It took me 3 hrs to get through Lisbon and still have to run to
get to the gate on time only to find I was one of the first through!
Obviously the flight was severely delayed and the announcement by the
Captain was first rate, including the memorable line.
"Don't you think they'd understand that if you open all four security
queues instead of two the mighe be able to deal with twice the amount of people?"
Cue huge laugh from the 40 or so of us who'd boarded at that point.
Ok it wasn't just security, passport control and check in were a nightmare
too, however, his point was well made, humorous and beautifully timed.
Well done to an obviously tired cabin team as well.
DaveA
bought us back Sunday Lunchtime (767-200)
It took me 3 hrs to get through Lisbon and still have to run to
get to the gate on time only to find I was one of the first through!
Obviously the flight was severely delayed and the announcement by the
Captain was first rate, including the memorable line.
"Don't you think they'd understand that if you open all four security
queues instead of two the mighe be able to deal with twice the amount of people?"
Cue huge laugh from the 40 or so of us who'd boarded at that point.
Ok it wasn't just security, passport control and check in were a nightmare
too, however, his point was well made, humorous and beautifully timed.
Well done to an obviously tired cabin team as well.
DaveA
Join Date: Jul 2006
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My understanding is the FFDO program(me) is a farce - but our Yankee cousins will do anything to coax their appetite for firearms anywhere, anytime...
Its not the first time either weapons have disappeared from the lock-box...so frankly, security needs to be intelligence led, before threats arrive at the airport door...and pilots fly the aircraft. Period.
Its not the first time either weapons have disappeared from the lock-box...so frankly, security needs to be intelligence led, before threats arrive at the airport door...and pilots fly the aircraft. Period.
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Paulo
Is it not admitting you are wrong, to make such a dishonest argument?
I never said anyone was untouchable. I cannot see how you could possibly read that into what I said. You have failed to acknowledge my case, and quoted me dishonestly, cutting off the sentence to change the meaning and you have come up with another false argument, an irrelevant story.
If false pilots are getting through the system then security screening them is the least of our concerns.
To add to my previous points, I can bring whatever I like to whichever airport I go to, as I load the aircraft myself, often in airports or airfields with low security. Yet I get searched returning to my aircraft, often by a guard who saw me go groundside a few minutes before, when accompanied by the handling agent. I repeat, the security system is not working, it is looking in places where there is no significant threat, so missing the threats.
Look at the latest farce. You are now not allowed outside terminals in a car, despite the fact that the attack from that position was a humiliation for the terrorists, and that future attacks could be prevented by much simpler measures. In fact I was at an airport recently that has blocked off the dropping-off area with concrete blocks and heavy planters. No-one thought to put the blocks outside the terminal, so cars could drop people off but not ram the building. We are not keeping cars away from other buildings with similar concentrations of people, such as supermarkets. Security arranged by idiots following rules written in knee-jerk reaction.
IATA is at least half right; not sure how airports benefit, but security certainly does not from the current system.
Is it not admitting you are wrong, to make such a dishonest argument?
I never said anyone was untouchable. I cannot see how you could possibly read that into what I said. You have failed to acknowledge my case, and quoted me dishonestly, cutting off the sentence to change the meaning and you have come up with another false argument, an irrelevant story.
If false pilots are getting through the system then security screening them is the least of our concerns.
To add to my previous points, I can bring whatever I like to whichever airport I go to, as I load the aircraft myself, often in airports or airfields with low security. Yet I get searched returning to my aircraft, often by a guard who saw me go groundside a few minutes before, when accompanied by the handling agent. I repeat, the security system is not working, it is looking in places where there is no significant threat, so missing the threats.
Look at the latest farce. You are now not allowed outside terminals in a car, despite the fact that the attack from that position was a humiliation for the terrorists, and that future attacks could be prevented by much simpler measures. In fact I was at an airport recently that has blocked off the dropping-off area with concrete blocks and heavy planters. No-one thought to put the blocks outside the terminal, so cars could drop people off but not ram the building. We are not keeping cars away from other buildings with similar concentrations of people, such as supermarkets. Security arranged by idiots following rules written in knee-jerk reaction.
IATA is at least half right; not sure how airports benefit, but security certainly does not from the current system.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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All of this screening is another way of creating more job places. Some time ago I read in Airport Press that many airports have installed special equipment that X-ray the person. The system allowed for a screener to see the person in any layer they would choose. There was a big stink about it, that this kind of equipment will destroy privacy since it’s very easy to see person naked just doing couple clicks on the screen.
But when it comes to shoes, it’s just a bit too much. I just don’t see the point in that.
But when it comes to shoes, it’s just a bit too much. I just don’t see the point in that.
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Cant understand why major airports not having separate screening for all airline staff... Airport security go crazy when u have a can of deodrant... pax give u stares for jumping the lines...We have a situation where our own ailrline security is worse than the chaps at the airport .. At the same time ground staff/ Engg/ Comm walk into the aircraft using side gates where their passes are only checked.. And pilots given a hard time for deodrants hahahah.. Like we need something physical in a bags to take a/c down......
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If passengers want to have any chance of their flights departing on time, then they will continue to understand and accept crew jumping in front where such queues are joint crew/pax!
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Quote from above: "If passengers want to have any chance of their flights departing on time, then they will continue to understand and accept crew jumping in front where such queues are joint crew/pax!"
(Playing part of devil's advocate) Eh, why should they?
If SLF have to be there in plenty of time to get through security, then so should crew. [This is based on present conditions, I'm all in favour of reduced checks on ID wearers]
Now, before you jump down my throat...
I also believe that this should be included in the duty time for the crew and worse case scenario taken as standard.
If flights are delayed because of crew not getting through security, the powers that be will take notice and do something!
If your flight time limitations are affected because you hjave to allow 2.5 hours before departure, as SLF do, the powers that be will notice very quickly when you start affecting the bottom line!
Just my two pence worth.
IF2
(Playing part of devil's advocate) Eh, why should they?
If SLF have to be there in plenty of time to get through security, then so should crew. [This is based on present conditions, I'm all in favour of reduced checks on ID wearers]
Now, before you jump down my throat...
I also believe that this should be included in the duty time for the crew and worse case scenario taken as standard.
If flights are delayed because of crew not getting through security, the powers that be will take notice and do something!
If your flight time limitations are affected because you hjave to allow 2.5 hours before departure, as SLF do, the powers that be will notice very quickly when you start affecting the bottom line!
Just my two pence worth.
IF2
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If SLF have to be there in plenty of time to get through security, then so should crew. [This is based on present conditions, I'm all in favour of reduced checks on ID wearers]
That is assuming all crew only do one leg per day.
Should airlines schedule 2-3 hrs between connecting flights for crew?
With 1.15-1.30 hrs to shut down ,go through customs/immigration,do flight planning for next leg, go through security, get A/C set up for next flight, time is not abundant. If we spend 30-40 minutes waiting to go through security, I can guarantee the next flight will not leave on time...
That is assuming all crew only do one leg per day.
Should airlines schedule 2-3 hrs between connecting flights for crew?
With 1.15-1.30 hrs to shut down ,go through customs/immigration,do flight planning for next leg, go through security, get A/C set up for next flight, time is not abundant. If we spend 30-40 minutes waiting to go through security, I can guarantee the next flight will not leave on time...
It's kind of sad to reflect that Security Staff spend 99.999% of their time in proving that innocent staff and passengers are not terrorists (as if we didn't know that already).
I wonder how many terrorists have actually been caught in the security screening process that we all suffer on a day to day basis (or perhaps we are not allowed to ask that question)?
You would think by now that someone would have come up with a better system.
I wonder how many terrorists have actually been caught in the security screening process that we all suffer on a day to day basis (or perhaps we are not allowed to ask that question)?
You would think by now that someone would have come up with a better system.
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What about the PPL
Last time I went through Caen, LFRK, I was security checked, produced my licence, passport, emptied my pockets of my leatherman, two stanley knives a screwdriver etc, then had is all xrayed (including the Leatherman) and my flight bag that had two open water bottles in it and an assortment of tools (I am working on a gite) and walked airside.
Then I walked past the commercial flight disgorging SLF and left on my PA24 a few minutes later.
Security is soooo tight.
Then I walked past the commercial flight disgorging SLF and left on my PA24 a few minutes later.
Security is soooo tight.
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IF2, you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.
Taking your view, fire engines would queue in traffic whilst on their way to a fire. Football players would queue up behind fans whilst trying to get into a stadium. The ferry Captain would line up with the passengers on the pier when he's trying to get onto his boat to prepare it! How dare any of these people get the jump on others!
Airline Pilots (and other airport workers) are providing a service to passengers. This is not about one-up-manship, it's about getting that service provided as efficiently as possible under insane circumstances. You want that service, then the need will remain to expedite the service providers through 'security'.
I can't believe I'm wasting my time making such an obvious point?
Then again, if we really want to go that way, bring it on! The world will suddenly need DOUBLE the number of pilots, which will translate into big pay rises!
Taking your view, fire engines would queue in traffic whilst on their way to a fire. Football players would queue up behind fans whilst trying to get into a stadium. The ferry Captain would line up with the passengers on the pier when he's trying to get onto his boat to prepare it! How dare any of these people get the jump on others!
Airline Pilots (and other airport workers) are providing a service to passengers. This is not about one-up-manship, it's about getting that service provided as efficiently as possible under insane circumstances. You want that service, then the need will remain to expedite the service providers through 'security'.
I can't believe I'm wasting my time making such an obvious point?
Then again, if we really want to go that way, bring it on! The world will suddenly need DOUBLE the number of pilots, which will translate into big pay rises!
PPRuNe supporter
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Quote from above: "If passengers want to have any chance of their flights departing on time, then they will continue to understand and accept crew jumping in front where such queues are joint crew/pax!"
(Playing part of devil's advocate) Eh, why should they?
(Playing part of devil's advocate) Eh, why should they?
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Out of LHR yesterday and the bell goes off so he asks me to remove my shoes , finally it was my breitling who was the culprit ... so had to put em in the shoes thru the x . . . funny never happened before ..... but the waiting in the buses for crews to go thru the special gate at LHR is sometimes just ridiculous . . . . . . .
Also he asked me to and the other lot to losen our belt buckles and you should have heard the room errupt in laughter when the fat skipper in front of me . . . did the same n dropped his pants hahahahahahahaha was laughing in my head for the next 10 hours hahahaha still am . . . . .
Also he asked me to and the other lot to losen our belt buckles and you should have heard the room errupt in laughter when the fat skipper in front of me . . . did the same n dropped his pants hahahahahahahaha was laughing in my head for the next 10 hours hahahaha still am . . . . .