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Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening

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Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening

Old 28th Jul 2007, 05:08
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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I can't give an opinion on that airport, and indeed it sounds warped, but there is one phrase that stands out:

"This is what those who think pilots should be screened..."

There are a good few people here who remember a certain fake pilot. That was probably one of the most shocking things I've ever seen. It developed over a period of time, here on pprune, and finally the guy was put away for a long long time thanks to the dilligence of those here. It took years though.

It's not the same circumstances that are being discussed here, but suffice to say that there are people who will use the identity as cover.

The more "untouchable" the role, the more it acts as an incentive to those who want to slip through.
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Old 28th Jul 2007, 07:12
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Issue all pilots with a secure id-card which includes scanning of the eye.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.

If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.

It all comes down to a secure id.
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Old 28th Jul 2007, 13:19
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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This is EXACTLY the sort of security that is needed, it has been around for a while now but will UK PLC use it?
Definitely not, as it encroaches into their profit margins. If you introduce a sensible security system like this then ALL the UK airports are cut out of the "Air side Pass " racket which they charge up to £250 or more per crew member. This Should be valid at any European Airport but each Airport wants their share of the Pie and you have to have a Local Pass as well! Its all about making a profit from security I'm afraid and not contributing towards it.
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Old 28th Jul 2007, 16:59
  #124 (permalink)  
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A system similar to this was used where I was based in the states, first of all we traveled through a door where we approached a turn-style device (floor to ceiling), we swiped our card and entered our PIN number, this then allowed us to push ourselves through, along with bags to the other side where TSA would then verify that our ID pass picture was actually us, no search, no x-ray, no passengers, worked great.
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 15:45
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Issue all pilots with a secure id-card which includes scanning of the eye.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.

If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.

It all comes down to a secure id

Excuse me, but you fail to understand the scenario that develops if such an horrible and vile proposition is put in practice. The victim may _not_ want to be screened on the other does not need any secrecy if he/she decides to alarm about the situation as the terrorist are not there to judge.

Then of course, either if the victim for whatever reason doesn't accomplish the criminal requests (no matter the reason why) or even if it does, nothing guarantees that the the kidnapped ones will make alive and well.

It is a deadend scenario that may have deterrents, but no safe harbor.
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:06
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Rumour of Major Security Breach at SYY?

Has anyone heard whats been goin on up in SYY?
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:11
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Question

No, what's the rumour?
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:24
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure been hearing on the grapevine something about a breach at SYY. Just wondering what it was?
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:25
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Wern't strikes by fire fighters planned for tomorrow?
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:26
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Hardly likely to be high up on AQ's 'to do' list, is it?
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 20:29
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Don't know to be honest I only heard a whisper that something had happened lately up there in bleaksville!
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Old 29th Jul 2007, 23:08
  #132 (permalink)  
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Maybe a passenger accidentally left a coloured plastic see through water pistol (less than 100ml of course!) that was small enough to fit inside a christmas cracker in their hand luggage. This really happened and I had Heather or Sheena, one or other one of the security supervisors at Stornoway present it to me (as operating crew) as I went through staff search. When I politely suggested that I take it and return it to the passenger at the end of the flight she recoiled and proclamed that "this gun will not go onboard that aircraft". You get the picture and there's plenty of other similar tales of their own special brand of security. Word has it they were bullied at school...
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 06:37
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It could have been a packet of gunpowder green tea - that's not allowed on board either.
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 07:30
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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I was speaking to an American pilot who was authorised to carry a gun on board. (I can't cecall what the title for such people are - Armed Aircrew Officers or some such?)

Apparently, when we, the disarmed, go through the take-your-shoes-hat-coat-belt-and-coins-off farce, these approved armed flight crew officers go through a separate check, where they show their approval to be carrying a gun and are allowed to proceed airside.

Said armed flight crew officer let it be seen that he had a very small pen knife as well as his gun - and (you all know what's coming next, don't you?) - of course, the TSA security guard, sticking to the letter of the law, insisted he wasn't allowed to carry the knife aboard the aircraft.

When he gently remonstrated with the security people that he was authorised and trusted to carry a gun on the aircraft, so he might also be trusted to carry a 2cm pen knife as well, they called the police, announcing loudly to the advancing policemen: "He has a gun!", which got the reaction expected from US cops, who came at him with weapons out and aimed.

I know we all have to play the game, but I still feel like a bloody goose every time I have to walk though the machines in my socks and then re-dress, including getting down to put my shoes back on, in front of a couple of hundred people.
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 07:35
  #135 (permalink)  
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Reminds me of the time a captain was told that he might not carry and item judged dangerous on board - however they would bag it in a security bag and hand it to the flight crew for safekeeping untill destination. So the item was promptly bagged/sealed and handed back to him......
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 07:36
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Program is called FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer). For many of us, we can't keep up with our mobile phones, how the heck are we going to keep up with a weapon.
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 08:15
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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It seems reasonable to me that the number of weapons taken through security should be monitored. People are licensed to take a gun through, and a check can be made that said gun is still in their possession when they leave the secure area.

If someone comes along with an extra weapon and are let through, what procedure monitors that they still had it when they left the secure area?

Allowing someone through security with a specified weapon is quite different from allowing them through with as many weapons as they like.

If Al Qaeda are the masterful covert operatives we are told they are when the state needs to justify removing our civil liberties, we should certainly fear that they can bribe a policeman or armed pilot to carry a weapon through security for them.

If they are the bumbling oafs who get occasionally get lucky when we take our eye off the ball, this isn't the most intrusive unnecessary measure that is currently deployed.
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 09:13
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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I was stopped from taking my lifejacket through security as it had a pressurised gas cannister in it. Now given that I was already wearing a goon suit for a low level mission over the North Sea, it might have been reasonable to allow a lifejacket to be taken on-board.

Next they stopped me from taking my survival equipment with me, because there was a small knife in there.

Single pilot operation, no passengers, no other crew
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 09:22
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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It doesn't get any better does it..... I still laugh at the time when the airport I was based at at the time changed their security passes (Not notified by the way) and even though my "old" one was in date they got huffy and insisted I be escorted out to the a/c by one of the security apes.

I dragged him into the cockpit and and pulled down the panel covering the fire axe and casually asked if this was allowed.

He started blustering and told me in no uncertain terms that there was no way he was going to allow the a/c to go with that on board. At this point I laughed and told him that therefore the a/c was grounded as it didn't have a full safety kit.

He then said. "maybe these rules are a bit daft..." I hope it made a difference, but I doubt it.
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Old 30th Jul 2007, 10:04
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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SYY incident

Unsure if this is the rumoured ‘major breach’ but understand this incident happened in SYY very recently.

Passenger arrived at the security checkpoint with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Security told passenger the liquid could not be taken on board unless they returned to the check-in desk and it was put in the hold. Passenger duly went back to check-in desk and left the bottle with the passenger service agent. Passenger proceeded through security. Security staff later saw the passenger service agent within the airport’s restricted zone passing the bottle back to the passenger. Passenger service agent was reported by security for breaching security regulations. It does beg the question how the agent managed to ‘smuggle’ the bottle past security and into the restricted zone. Poor procedures or staff not vigilant?? Dont know if any action resulted from this ‘incident’.

SYY is getting a lot of bad publicity. Staff shortages in all areas of the airport are biting, the staff left are getting grief and customers are suffering.

Last edited by The Family Ness; 30th Jul 2007 at 10:18.
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