Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't give an opinion on that airport, and indeed it sounds warped, but there is one phrase that stands out:
"This is what those who think pilots should be screened..."
There are a good few people here who remember a certain fake pilot. That was probably one of the most shocking things I've ever seen. It developed over a period of time, here on pprune, and finally the guy was put away for a long long time thanks to the dilligence of those here. It took years though.
It's not the same circumstances that are being discussed here, but suffice to say that there are people who will use the identity as cover.
The more "untouchable" the role, the more it acts as an incentive to those who want to slip through.
"This is what those who think pilots should be screened..."
There are a good few people here who remember a certain fake pilot. That was probably one of the most shocking things I've ever seen. It developed over a period of time, here on pprune, and finally the guy was put away for a long long time thanks to the dilligence of those here. It took years though.
It's not the same circumstances that are being discussed here, but suffice to say that there are people who will use the identity as cover.
The more "untouchable" the role, the more it acts as an incentive to those who want to slip through.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SWE
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Issue all pilots with a secure id-card which includes scanning of the eye.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.
If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.
It all comes down to a secure id.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.
If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.
It all comes down to a secure id.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is EXACTLY the sort of security that is needed, it has been around for a while now but will UK PLC use it?
Definitely not, as it encroaches into their profit margins. If you introduce a sensible security system like this then ALL the UK airports are cut out of the "Air side Pass " racket which they charge up to £250 or more per crew member. This Should be valid at any European Airport but each Airport wants their share of the Pie and you have to have a Local Pass as well! Its all about making a profit from security I'm afraid and not contributing towards it.
Definitely not, as it encroaches into their profit margins. If you introduce a sensible security system like this then ALL the UK airports are cut out of the "Air side Pass " racket which they charge up to £250 or more per crew member. This Should be valid at any European Airport but each Airport wants their share of the Pie and you have to have a Local Pass as well! Its all about making a profit from security I'm afraid and not contributing towards it.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A system similar to this was used where I was based in the states, first of all we traveled through a door where we approached a turn-style device (floor to ceiling), we swiped our card and entered our PIN number, this then allowed us to push ourselves through, along with bags to the other side where TSA would then verify that our ID pass picture was actually us, no search, no x-ray, no passengers, worked great.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Both Emispheres
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Issue all pilots with a secure id-card which includes scanning of the eye.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.
If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.
It all comes down to a secure id
Excuse me, but you fail to understand the scenario that develops if such an horrible and vile proposition is put in practice. The victim may _not_ want to be screened on the other does not need any secrecy if he/she decides to alarm about the situation as the terrorist are not there to judge.
Then of course, either if the victim for whatever reason doesn't accomplish the criminal requests (no matter the reason why) or even if it does, nothing guarantees that the the kidnapped ones will make alive and well.
It is a deadend scenario that may have deterrents, but no safe harbor.
Establish dedicated crew channels where you randomly scan a small percentage of the crew.
If your wife and children are at gun point back home you punch in your normal pin code but add one (ex. 1112 instead of 1111) and the security personnel will pick you for the random screening and discover the things that you are pressured to bring inside.
The terrorists will not know if you got picked at random or not.
It all comes down to a secure id
Excuse me, but you fail to understand the scenario that develops if such an horrible and vile proposition is put in practice. The victim may _not_ want to be screened on the other does not need any secrecy if he/she decides to alarm about the situation as the terrorist are not there to judge.
Then of course, either if the victim for whatever reason doesn't accomplish the criminal requests (no matter the reason why) or even if it does, nothing guarantees that the the kidnapped ones will make alive and well.
It is a deadend scenario that may have deterrents, but no safe harbor.
e28 driver
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe a passenger accidentally left a coloured plastic see through water pistol (less than 100ml of course!) that was small enough to fit inside a christmas cracker in their hand luggage. This really happened and I had Heather or Sheena, one or other one of the security supervisors at Stornoway present it to me (as operating crew) as I went through staff search. When I politely suggested that I take it and return it to the passenger at the end of the flight she recoiled and proclamed that "this gun will not go onboard that aircraft". You get the picture and there's plenty of other similar tales of their own special brand of security. Word has it they were bullied at school...
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was speaking to an American pilot who was authorised to carry a gun on board. (I can't cecall what the title for such people are - Armed Aircrew Officers or some such?)
Apparently, when we, the disarmed, go through the take-your-shoes-hat-coat-belt-and-coins-off farce, these approved armed flight crew officers go through a separate check, where they show their approval to be carrying a gun and are allowed to proceed airside.
Said armed flight crew officer let it be seen that he had a very small pen knife as well as his gun - and (you all know what's coming next, don't you?) - of course, the TSA security guard, sticking to the letter of the law, insisted he wasn't allowed to carry the knife aboard the aircraft.
When he gently remonstrated with the security people that he was authorised and trusted to carry a gun on the aircraft, so he might also be trusted to carry a 2cm pen knife as well, they called the police, announcing loudly to the advancing policemen: "He has a gun!", which got the reaction expected from US cops, who came at him with weapons out and aimed.
I know we all have to play the game, but I still feel like a bloody goose every time I have to walk though the machines in my socks and then re-dress, including getting down to put my shoes back on, in front of a couple of hundred people.
Apparently, when we, the disarmed, go through the take-your-shoes-hat-coat-belt-and-coins-off farce, these approved armed flight crew officers go through a separate check, where they show their approval to be carrying a gun and are allowed to proceed airside.
Said armed flight crew officer let it be seen that he had a very small pen knife as well as his gun - and (you all know what's coming next, don't you?) - of course, the TSA security guard, sticking to the letter of the law, insisted he wasn't allowed to carry the knife aboard the aircraft.
When he gently remonstrated with the security people that he was authorised and trusted to carry a gun on the aircraft, so he might also be trusted to carry a 2cm pen knife as well, they called the police, announcing loudly to the advancing policemen: "He has a gun!", which got the reaction expected from US cops, who came at him with weapons out and aimed.
I know we all have to play the game, but I still feel like a bloody goose every time I have to walk though the machines in my socks and then re-dress, including getting down to put my shoes back on, in front of a couple of hundred people.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hotels everywhere
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reminds me of the time a captain was told that he might not carry and item judged dangerous on board - however they would bag it in a security bag and hand it to the flight crew for safekeeping untill destination. So the item was promptly bagged/sealed and handed back to him......
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: MAN
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems reasonable to me that the number of weapons taken through security should be monitored. People are licensed to take a gun through, and a check can be made that said gun is still in their possession when they leave the secure area.
If someone comes along with an extra weapon and are let through, what procedure monitors that they still had it when they left the secure area?
Allowing someone through security with a specified weapon is quite different from allowing them through with as many weapons as they like.
If Al Qaeda are the masterful covert operatives we are told they are when the state needs to justify removing our civil liberties, we should certainly fear that they can bribe a policeman or armed pilot to carry a weapon through security for them.
If they are the bumbling oafs who get occasionally get lucky when we take our eye off the ball, this isn't the most intrusive unnecessary measure that is currently deployed.
If someone comes along with an extra weapon and are let through, what procedure monitors that they still had it when they left the secure area?
Allowing someone through security with a specified weapon is quite different from allowing them through with as many weapons as they like.
If Al Qaeda are the masterful covert operatives we are told they are when the state needs to justify removing our civil liberties, we should certainly fear that they can bribe a policeman or armed pilot to carry a weapon through security for them.
If they are the bumbling oafs who get occasionally get lucky when we take our eye off the ball, this isn't the most intrusive unnecessary measure that is currently deployed.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A oneworld lounge near you
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was stopped from taking my lifejacket through security as it had a pressurised gas cannister in it. Now given that I was already wearing a goon suit for a low level mission over the North Sea, it might have been reasonable to allow a lifejacket to be taken on-board.
Next they stopped me from taking my survival equipment with me, because there was a small knife in there.
Single pilot operation, no passengers, no other crew
Next they stopped me from taking my survival equipment with me, because there was a small knife in there.
Single pilot operation, no passengers, no other crew
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It doesn't get any better does it..... I still laugh at the time when the airport I was based at at the time changed their security passes (Not notified by the way) and even though my "old" one was in date they got huffy and insisted I be escorted out to the a/c by one of the security apes.
I dragged him into the cockpit and and pulled down the panel covering the fire axe and casually asked if this was allowed.
He started blustering and told me in no uncertain terms that there was no way he was going to allow the a/c to go with that on board. At this point I laughed and told him that therefore the a/c was grounded as it didn't have a full safety kit.
He then said. "maybe these rules are a bit daft..." I hope it made a difference, but I doubt it.
I dragged him into the cockpit and and pulled down the panel covering the fire axe and casually asked if this was allowed.
He started blustering and told me in no uncertain terms that there was no way he was going to allow the a/c to go with that on board. At this point I laughed and told him that therefore the a/c was grounded as it didn't have a full safety kit.
He then said. "maybe these rules are a bit daft..." I hope it made a difference, but I doubt it.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Loch Ness
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SYY incident
Unsure if this is the rumoured ‘major breach’ but understand this incident happened in SYY very recently.
Passenger arrived at the security checkpoint with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Security told passenger the liquid could not be taken on board unless they returned to the check-in desk and it was put in the hold. Passenger duly went back to check-in desk and left the bottle with the passenger service agent. Passenger proceeded through security. Security staff later saw the passenger service agent within the airport’s restricted zone passing the bottle back to the passenger.
Passenger service agent was reported by security for breaching security regulations. 
It does beg the question how the agent managed to ‘smuggle’ the bottle past security and into the restricted zone. 
Poor procedures or staff not vigilant?? Dont know if any action resulted from this ‘incident’.
SYY is getting a lot of bad publicity. Staff shortages in all areas of the airport are biting, the staff left are getting grief and customers are suffering.
Passenger arrived at the security checkpoint with a bottle of Jack Daniels. Security told passenger the liquid could not be taken on board unless they returned to the check-in desk and it was put in the hold. Passenger duly went back to check-in desk and left the bottle with the passenger service agent. Passenger proceeded through security. Security staff later saw the passenger service agent within the airport’s restricted zone passing the bottle back to the passenger.
Passenger service agent was reported by security for breaching security regulations. It does beg the question how the agent managed to ‘smuggle’ the bottle past security and into the restricted zone. Poor procedures or staff not vigilant?? Dont know if any action resulted from this ‘incident’.SYY is getting a lot of bad publicity. Staff shortages in all areas of the airport are biting, the staff left are getting grief and customers are suffering.
Last edited by The Family Ness; 30th Jul 2007 at 10:18.