Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Middlesex, UK
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RatherBeFlying,
I like your way of thinking. It means none of us have to come into work.
I hate to state the really very obvious, but I've spotted a slight floor in your plan. If none of the aircraft fly then the airline doesn't make any money (not to mention the compensation claims for delaying the passengers) and we all get made redundant.
The problem then is that I'm without a job so I can't pay for my training and would never achieve my goal of one day flying alongside you guys.
It's a nice idea though, I guess we can all dream. Unlimited time off work, and we get paid for it.
I like your way of thinking. It means none of us have to come into work.
I hate to state the really very obvious, but I've spotted a slight floor in your plan. If none of the aircraft fly then the airline doesn't make any money (not to mention the compensation claims for delaying the passengers) and we all get made redundant.
The problem then is that I'm without a job so I can't pay for my training and would never achieve my goal of one day flying alongside you guys.
It's a nice idea though, I guess we can all dream. Unlimited time off work, and we get paid for it.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Have all the above incidents with security here been reported? The questions I have asked suggests these issues are massively UNDERreported. For instance in the UK there have been 70 CHIRP reports. Surely this should have been 700 or 7000! Why have so few of us reported it officially?
Join Date: May 2007
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Hi Pilot in the Making, wrt the episode you told here, in a democracy everyone is entitled to his own opinions and the right to express them publicly especially when confronted with nonsensical situations, so the security chief giving you a lecture was just acting nazi to re-asses his authority, you haven't committed any offense and I hope you will find the right way to say things firm and clearly next time.
Practical advice, can't you guys work some deal with the catering people or another way to order fresh water and sodas, that you would store just near the flammable liquids perhaps
Practical advice, can't you guys work some deal with the catering people or another way to order fresh water and sodas, that you would store just near the flammable liquids perhaps
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Airforce One
Everyone, we have it all wrong.
We should encourage the security people.
Next time Bush is about to board Airforce One, they should run all the staff, security people etc through security. Remove all weapons from their person, remove all bottled water etc, pat down all the female staff, make the pres take his shoes off to have them Xrayed and generally ensure that all the normal procedure are followed,
Do this each and every time and the laws will change....
We should encourage the security people.
Next time Bush is about to board Airforce One, they should run all the staff, security people etc through security. Remove all weapons from their person, remove all bottled water etc, pat down all the female staff, make the pres take his shoes off to have them Xrayed and generally ensure that all the normal procedure are followed,
Do this each and every time and the laws will change....
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I'm afraid I will have to retain my irritation regarding security.
I find that many of the old faces who were at GLA have a fairly decent professional manner, while some of the more recent recruits hired to go along with the shiny new equipment seem simply to have been hired from the unemployed pub bouncers queue.
In particular, there is one ignorant piece of work who seems to target flight and cabin crew for special treatment. Almost like it's an opportunity for him to 'show us'.
It's a sad but real fact that increased security is necessary. It's also IMHO, obvious that the quality of the people being hired to implement it has become questionable in many cases.
So I would have to ask if the slovenly git who behaves like he wants to pick a fight every time he sees local crew (Americans seem to avoid his treatment) is actually paying any real attention to what is actually going on?
I will say to anyone reading this who chooses to take offence at what I am saying-
Just because increased security is required does not immediately imply that poor recruitment standards for security, crap customer service, disproportionate response, and general open disrespect should become the norm also.
I find that many of the old faces who were at GLA have a fairly decent professional manner, while some of the more recent recruits hired to go along with the shiny new equipment seem simply to have been hired from the unemployed pub bouncers queue.
In particular, there is one ignorant piece of work who seems to target flight and cabin crew for special treatment. Almost like it's an opportunity for him to 'show us'.
It's a sad but real fact that increased security is necessary. It's also IMHO, obvious that the quality of the people being hired to implement it has become questionable in many cases.
So I would have to ask if the slovenly git who behaves like he wants to pick a fight every time he sees local crew (Americans seem to avoid his treatment) is actually paying any real attention to what is actually going on?
I will say to anyone reading this who chooses to take offence at what I am saying-
Just because increased security is required does not immediately imply that poor recruitment standards for security, crap customer service, disproportionate response, and general open disrespect should become the norm also.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Shiny side down
Your post reflects the unfortunate side if society we live in. A slight digression - I work for an American carrier and when the good ole US of A started the TSA a colleague remarked at least we will have some properly trained personnel on security now. Not a chance, it was still a bunch of ignorant peasants who had hardly enough grey cells to know how to walk, let alone know about security measures. Now you have the same situation at GLA and many other UK airports. Why? The old story - pay bottom wage and you will only get what is under the barrel. As we used to Say in the RAF -'Naafi' - i.e. for the uninitiated 'No ambition and F***all interest'. If you cannot get the level of people to fill a position, then lower the standards until you do. Hence that is what we are left with. The latest I have heard is the TSA now requires a 'guard' at the aircraft at all times, like the Israelis have. The next step will be a personal escort to and from said aircraft, bet they won't carry the bags.
Keep safe, stay sane. Off to take on a security dept.
Your post reflects the unfortunate side if society we live in. A slight digression - I work for an American carrier and when the good ole US of A started the TSA a colleague remarked at least we will have some properly trained personnel on security now. Not a chance, it was still a bunch of ignorant peasants who had hardly enough grey cells to know how to walk, let alone know about security measures. Now you have the same situation at GLA and many other UK airports. Why? The old story - pay bottom wage and you will only get what is under the barrel. As we used to Say in the RAF -'Naafi' - i.e. for the uninitiated 'No ambition and F***all interest'. If you cannot get the level of people to fill a position, then lower the standards until you do. Hence that is what we are left with. The latest I have heard is the TSA now requires a 'guard' at the aircraft at all times, like the Israelis have. The next step will be a personal escort to and from said aircraft, bet they won't carry the bags.
Keep safe, stay sane. Off to take on a security dept.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Everybody can be a sheriff??
Hi everybody,
I wonder if someone can provide with any law, or whatever. about the private personnel at screening pionts.
This is because in some parts of Europe, they are merely "auxiliary staff" backing-up state or local police forces. So if you disagree, you always can call "the real guys".
This has quite a few effects, :
Maybe to calm down the "beyond duty guys", maybe to cut down absurde abuses, etc. or maybe not, but at least something is something.
My doubts about a guy or girl, invested by some hidden attributions. If it is the case, even myself can hand check everybody.
I think it is very important to provide all of us, includin tech guys who go very often to the airside, wuith any sort of written code or procedures to avoid this ***pain.
Any ideas ??
I wonder if someone can provide with any law, or whatever. about the private personnel at screening pionts.
This is because in some parts of Europe, they are merely "auxiliary staff" backing-up state or local police forces. So if you disagree, you always can call "the real guys".
This has quite a few effects, :
Maybe to calm down the "beyond duty guys", maybe to cut down absurde abuses, etc. or maybe not, but at least something is something.
My doubts about a guy or girl, invested by some hidden attributions. If it is the case, even myself can hand check everybody.
I think it is very important to provide all of us, includin tech guys who go very often to the airside, wuith any sort of written code or procedures to avoid this ***pain.
Any ideas ??
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I do get the impression that the security people are more interested in catching out people who have more interesting jobs than they do rather than catching terrorists.
Yes I know they will deny it but until things change that is how it looks from where I am standing, (On a dirty rubber mat, in my socks)
Customs used to be our worst nightmare until they realised, about 15 years ago, that if they were nice to us we might help them catch the real bad guys.
Yes I know that if a Customs officer is unlucky once some contraband enters the country and they will get them some other time. The terrorist only has to be lucky once.
But, and it's a big one, Customs Officers are alowed to use a bit of common sense,intelligence and hunches in their choices. PC does not affect their choice of suspect.
Yes I know they will deny it but until things change that is how it looks from where I am standing, (On a dirty rubber mat, in my socks)
Customs used to be our worst nightmare until they realised, about 15 years ago, that if they were nice to us we might help them catch the real bad guys.
Yes I know that if a Customs officer is unlucky once some contraband enters the country and they will get them some other time. The terrorist only has to be lucky once.
But, and it's a big one, Customs Officers are alowed to use a bit of common sense,intelligence and hunches in their choices. PC does not affect their choice of suspect.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Had a new one in CDG last week. Our crew all dutifully took off their shoes as requested and put them through the scanner etc. However, being the last in line, I noticed that none of the passengers behind us were asked to remove their shoes.....couldn't help asking the security experts about this....their reply was that all uniform shoes have metal in them!
Oh well, I sighed and went off to my to the cockpit to see if the fire-axe was in place....
Oh well, I sighed and went off to my to the cockpit to see if the fire-axe was in place....
Join Date: Sep 2007
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When asked to take off your shoes, did anyone ask the screeners when the floor was cleaned and disinfected last time? I always see many people walking in shoes through security, but barely see the walking area cleaned and disinfected. So, when asked to take shoes off, look at the floor ahead of you if it is clean or dirty. I prefer the area I walk over to be cleaned and disinfected since I do not know if one of the persons that walked there ahead of me has swetting feet or a disease like an Athlete's foot or similar. Can the security screener guarantee that I am safe of catching any disease at this point when I am forced to walk through there on socks or bare feet? edited for typos...
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I Witnessed this fiasco for myself this week and must say I do feel sorry for you guys.
I was sitting in the at the gate in departure lounge near the security in DXB when the crew for our flight came through, each and everyone had to take shoes and belt off then have bags etc x-rayed. One of the cabin crew were even taken aside for further screening.
Some of the passengers even commented on why did the Pilot need to go through the screening when if they really wanted to bad things they would have a fully laden 747 at their disposal.
As a SLF it does not make me feel any safer that you guys have to go through all the hasstle that we do, it just makes me feel that common sense has gone out of the window.
Good luck in your fight hope the situation gets better for you soon.
I was sitting in the at the gate in departure lounge near the security in DXB when the crew for our flight came through, each and everyone had to take shoes and belt off then have bags etc x-rayed. One of the cabin crew were even taken aside for further screening.
Some of the passengers even commented on why did the Pilot need to go through the screening when if they really wanted to bad things they would have a fully laden 747 at their disposal.
As a SLF it does not make me feel any safer that you guys have to go through all the hasstle that we do, it just makes me feel that common sense has gone out of the window.
Good luck in your fight hope the situation gets better for you soon.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Are the rules different for Private Jets? Was at work on Tuesday and was told by some of our cabin crew that they had been searched very thoroughly by the security guards at the staff gate at one of our bases. however two cabin crew on a private jet who were not based there, walked through the checkpoint with two large beverages, well over 100ml and had no passes. Both were waved through without either being asked for id, to dispose of their drinks or anything.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Security
Interestingly enough, I fly a large passenger airplane in Africa. I often get entrusted with the fanciest of (loaded) weaponry from various government agencies while their representatives sip coffee in the back with the rest of the unknowing passengers. AND I often have the occasion to not only fly over large North American interests here in Africa - but also various embassies and high commissions.
Security at the African airports is a joke. I walk through the metal detector and continue on my way despite it having gone off like a Christmas tree. As previous posters have indicated - I have control of where the airplane goes and what it does with it's usual 9 hour cash of jet fuel. Have you heard of any aircraft terrorist activity in Africa despite the levels of security here?
Ahh, and as for 'pilots' making it through Western security with intent.... Let me remind you that THOSE were NOT pilots. They were fundamentalists who took a couple of flying lessons and made it on board as PASSENGERS with weapons.
I see the issue here as screening pilots for their airport pass and positively identifying them by renal or fingerprint scan - (as opposed to anal) and letting them go as good, trustworthy folks. I always wonder if the $13.00 per hour security guard takes their shoes off when reporting for work? Do they have their 'water' checked. Aren't most of them from the Elephant crowd?
My point here is that there little to stop terrorists from doing something like this again if they REALLY wanted to. They have made their point; they have reached their objective of scaring the pants off of the West and screwing up the convenience of air transport in the US.
And just to set the record straight, I am licensed to fly these airplanes in three countries - have airport passes from the US, Canada and Africa and am from the cultural background that is on the watch list.
So - my rant done...... peace.
Security at the African airports is a joke. I walk through the metal detector and continue on my way despite it having gone off like a Christmas tree. As previous posters have indicated - I have control of where the airplane goes and what it does with it's usual 9 hour cash of jet fuel. Have you heard of any aircraft terrorist activity in Africa despite the levels of security here?
Ahh, and as for 'pilots' making it through Western security with intent.... Let me remind you that THOSE were NOT pilots. They were fundamentalists who took a couple of flying lessons and made it on board as PASSENGERS with weapons.
I see the issue here as screening pilots for their airport pass and positively identifying them by renal or fingerprint scan - (as opposed to anal) and letting them go as good, trustworthy folks. I always wonder if the $13.00 per hour security guard takes their shoes off when reporting for work? Do they have their 'water' checked. Aren't most of them from the Elephant crowd?
My point here is that there little to stop terrorists from doing something like this again if they REALLY wanted to. They have made their point; they have reached their objective of scaring the pants off of the West and screwing up the convenience of air transport in the US.
And just to set the record straight, I am licensed to fly these airplanes in three countries - have airport passes from the US, Canada and Africa and am from the cultural background that is on the watch list.
So - my rant done...... peace.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Been through a couple of airports Stateside in the last few weeks as operating crew and ,as above, had half finished bottle of water in my hand and upon asking the TSA operative to 'trash' the offending item, was informed that 'it's ok Sir, you're flightcrew'.
Very refreshing (as was the water)!!
If only this attitude could filter across to this side of the pond
Very refreshing (as was the water)!!
If only this attitude could filter across to this side of the pond
Join Date: Jul 2007
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LHR must be the pits - I bid to avoid the stuffy, cramped, unfriendly and security paranoid airport. As aircrew it takes a good hour to get from your hotel to the aircraft, not even 2 kilometers. Sitting in a crew bus staring at the crew busses, catering trucks etc taking a life time to get through. Shoes, jackets, laptops, liquids etc. Fun when the preeceding crews consists of 20 souls.
Get a life people - I am supposed to be aircrew, not a suspect!! Screen everybody, but do random checks if you have to.
Get a life people - I am supposed to be aircrew, not a suspect!! Screen everybody, but do random checks if you have to.
I've been keeping up with the large number of comments on this thread and feel even more sure that I did the right thing.
I RETIRED.
What used to be a brilliant career has been ruined, not by the terrorists, but by the attitude of a large number of jumped-up ne'er-do-wells who spoil a good day before it can ever get started. How the hell are we supposed to deal with all the normal hassles awaiting us when it starts with this....EVERY WORKING DAY.
I take this opportunity now to empathise with the large number of security staff who know how to do the job properly but are let down by a proportion of people who should never be allowed into such a position because of grave intellectual failings.
You all know who they are. Why don't you speak up ?
Let's get some intelligent people on the gates and not the disrespectful inadequates who are allowed to inflate their pathetic egos at the expense of aircrews and airside staff. After all, we all just want a quiet, trouble-free day and the knowledge of a job well done, don't we ?
And why is it that UK airports are the worst ? LHR, MCR, GLA, MME ?
Capt.Sleeve. (LHR based for 12years.)
I RETIRED.
What used to be a brilliant career has been ruined, not by the terrorists, but by the attitude of a large number of jumped-up ne'er-do-wells who spoil a good day before it can ever get started. How the hell are we supposed to deal with all the normal hassles awaiting us when it starts with this....EVERY WORKING DAY.
I take this opportunity now to empathise with the large number of security staff who know how to do the job properly but are let down by a proportion of people who should never be allowed into such a position because of grave intellectual failings.
You all know who they are. Why don't you speak up ?
Let's get some intelligent people on the gates and not the disrespectful inadequates who are allowed to inflate their pathetic egos at the expense of aircrews and airside staff. After all, we all just want a quiet, trouble-free day and the knowledge of a job well done, don't we ?
And why is it that UK airports are the worst ? LHR, MCR, GLA, MME ?
Capt.Sleeve. (LHR based for 12years.)