BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Liverpool
Age: 47
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We all work for a company and we have to adhere to the guidelines/rules etc. As a pilot, most of your day is spent thinking inside a box. 
It's not the captain's aircraft, it's the company's, and it's not up to the captain to decide what s/he can do onboard. These things are dictated by the company. If, for example, the company decides even something as simple as forbidding crew from chewing gum while onboard, the captain is not allowed to decide that s/he will chew gum. If it were agreed that crew could take rest in Club but not First then a crew member (captain or otherwise) couldn't just decide to ignore that and sit in First stating "it's my aircraft". You know your above statement was ridic. 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I noticed that.
It's interesting because the letter at post #179 (with the names blanked out for some reason) is a letter dated 15 December 2006 from the 'Amicus Cabin Crew Committee' to its own members, and copied to Bassa members for information.
Is the Amicus approach negotiation rather than confrontation?
It's interesting because the letter at post #179 (with the names blanked out for some reason) is a letter dated 15 December 2006 from the 'Amicus Cabin Crew Committee' to its own members, and copied to Bassa members for information.
Is the Amicus approach negotiation rather than confrontation?
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Carnage Matey! Are you trying to imply that we can do what we want? We all work for a company and we have to adhere to the guidelines/rules etc. As a pilot, most of your day is spent thinking inside a box. It's not the captain's aircraft, it's the company's, and it's not up to the captain to decide what s/he can do onboard. These things are dictated by the company. If, for example, the company decides even something as simple as forbidding crew from chewing gum while onboard, the captain is not allowed to decide that s/he will chew gum. If it were agreed that crew could take rest in Club but not First then a crew member (captain or otherwise) couldn't just decide to ignore that and sit in First stating "it's my aircraft". You know your above statement was ridic.
We all work for a company and we have to adhere to the guidelines/rules etc. As a pilot, most of your day is spent thinking inside a box. It's not the captain's aircraft, it's the company's, and it's not up to the captain to decide what s/he can do onboard. These things are dictated by the company. If, for example, the company decides even something as simple as forbidding crew from chewing gum while onboard, the captain is not allowed to decide that s/he will chew gum. If it were agreed that crew could take rest in Club but not First then a crew member (captain or otherwise) couldn't just decide to ignore that and sit in First stating "it's my aircraft". You know your above statement was ridic. PS If you are BA cabin crew I suggest you open your copy of FCOs and see whose name is in the front (no, not yours). Then find out who he is and what he does.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LONDON
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ham phisted
my eurofleet roster for jan = 42 sectors this is average
my take home will be for jan, £1500
my rolling flight hours for the year, over 800
the number of times i was given a non op from available in december, 6
the number of times i tried to get those availables filled so i could earn a living wage, countless
your attitude, priceless!
1-2-1 is the excpetion, not the norm
my eurofleet roster for jan = 42 sectors this is average
my take home will be for jan, £1500
my rolling flight hours for the year, over 800
the number of times i was given a non op from available in december, 6
the number of times i tried to get those availables filled so i could earn a living wage, countless
your attitude, priceless!
1-2-1 is the excpetion, not the norm
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Robin Hood country.
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nail on the head.
Litebulbs:
Exactly, participation in a race to the bottom isn't a done deal. The first world isn't obligated to work to the terms of the third whether it be referenced to Flight or Cabin Crew. Possibly a watershed in all this, who rules, who gains? The shareholder or the employee?
As for public opinion, when a company can be toppled by disgruntled employees public opinion is irrelevant and counts for nothing. Do you think the public supports GPs on six figures? They don't, but GPs still pull it.
We as a human race should be striving to work less and get paid more, not the other way round.
As for public opinion, when a company can be toppled by disgruntled employees public opinion is irrelevant and counts for nothing. Do you think the public supports GPs on six figures? They don't, but GPs still pull it.
Last edited by XL5; 18th Jan 2007 at 06:39.
Litebulbs
I know Carnage M can be a bit extreme
but he has a point, some of your colleagues have a fairly strange idea of how the Management chain, no, lets be brave and call it the Chain of Command, functions when we are all at work ( and that's not just when they are on the aircraft). In a nutshell, the skipper is the boss, period. That's cos the Law says so (for the in flight period) , it's also because the Company, your employer says so in FCO's. Problem is some of your colleagues have never read the "blue book" or doesn't think it applies to them, so we get whinges like:
Q: " Why did the Captain interfere when I was having an argument with the US Immigration Officer"?
A: Because FCOs ( and the Law) require that the Captain ensure's that all Customs and Immigration formalities are complied with - it's in FCO's ( and also because I'm not prepared to be locked up because one of your colleagues wants to be a prat).
Q: " The Captain let the Co-Pilot take his rest in First".
A: Yes he did, because he is allowed to, it's in FCOs.
All I ask as an 'Aircraft Commander" is that we all try to read in full and sing from, the same hymn sheet, instead of using the version Galley FM has come up with..and of course attend the post flight debrief for all Crewmembers..that's in FCO's as well ....I find the bar usually provides a suitable enviroment 
Back to the point
Despite my above diatribe I wish you well in your Current Campaign, the idea of management having unbridled power to do as they wish with the employees of BA doesn't bear thinking about.
I know Carnage M can be a bit extreme
but he has a point, some of your colleagues have a fairly strange idea of how the Management chain, no, lets be brave and call it the Chain of Command, functions when we are all at work ( and that's not just when they are on the aircraft). In a nutshell, the skipper is the boss, period. That's cos the Law says so (for the in flight period) , it's also because the Company, your employer says so in FCO's. Problem is some of your colleagues have never read the "blue book" or doesn't think it applies to them, so we get whinges like:Q: " Why did the Captain interfere when I was having an argument with the US Immigration Officer"?
A: Because FCOs ( and the Law) require that the Captain ensure's that all Customs and Immigration formalities are complied with - it's in FCO's ( and also because I'm not prepared to be locked up because one of your colleagues wants to be a prat).
Q: " The Captain let the Co-Pilot take his rest in First".
A: Yes he did, because he is allowed to, it's in FCOs.
All I ask as an 'Aircraft Commander"
is that we all try to read in full and sing from, the same hymn sheet, instead of using the version Galley FM has come up with..and of course attend the post flight debrief for all Crewmembers..that's in FCO's as well ....I find the bar usually provides a suitable enviroment Back to the point
Despite my above diatribe I wish you well in your Current Campaign, the idea of management having unbridled power to do as they wish with the employees of BA doesn't bear thinking about.
Last edited by wiggy; 18th Jan 2007 at 07:54.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: East sussex
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Much is said about earnings on this thread .... a truly British gift of bringing all down to the lowest common denominator.
Guest
Posts: n/a
XL5 you say As for public opinion, when a company can be toppled by disgruntled employees public opinion is irrelevant and counts for nothing.
You are soooo wrong.
Public opinion impacts directly on ticket sales.
Yes, disgruntled employees can topple a company and so can many other factors, remember BCal, Dan Air, Pan Am, Air Europe, Air UK etc .... all companies I flew with in the past, who are no longer around.
But I still fly and other companies have taken over.
You cite GPs, but that is an illogical comparison, since GPs have a state imposed monopoly.
I am on no side other than my own in this dispute and will not consider taking any BA flights until the risk of disruption is gone.
If you all (staff and management) wish to commit mutual commercial suicide, that's your choice, but customers also have a choice and public opinion should not be dismissed as lightyl as you dismiss it.
You are soooo wrong.
Public opinion impacts directly on ticket sales.
Yes, disgruntled employees can topple a company and so can many other factors, remember BCal, Dan Air, Pan Am, Air Europe, Air UK etc .... all companies I flew with in the past, who are no longer around.
But I still fly and other companies have taken over.
You cite GPs, but that is an illogical comparison, since GPs have a state imposed monopoly.
I am on no side other than my own in this dispute and will not consider taking any BA flights until the risk of disruption is gone.
If you all (staff and management) wish to commit mutual commercial suicide, that's your choice, but customers also have a choice and public opinion should not be dismissed as lightyl as you dismiss it.
[quote=Carnage Matey!;3074916]The captain is the legal commander of the aircraft and has the authority to do anything he likes within the law on board.
Now I know how Captains earn their pay; it's writing their own Flight Ops Manuals. Who needs one written by the Company, when you can do what you like...... "within the law"?
Now I know how Captains earn their pay; it's writing their own Flight Ops Manuals. Who needs one written by the Company, when you can do what you like...... "within the law"?
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
writing their own Flight Ops Manuals. Who needs one written by the Company, when you can do what you like...... "within the law"?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiggy
I absolutely agree that the Captain is boss. That doesn't make that Captain a good boss though. The ability to fly a plane does not go hand in hand with the ability to manage a team.
I absolutely agree that the Captain is boss. That doesn't make that Captain a good boss though. The ability to fly a plane does not go hand in hand with the ability to manage a team.
A sweeping statement which sounds like sour grapes, or did you mean to say: The ability to fly a plane does not NECESSARILY go hand in hand with the ability to manage a team.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brakedwell
You are absoultely correct, NECESSARILY, should be there, (maybe my ability to spell the work caused the exclusion). No sour grapes as I am neither a pilot or cabin crew, but engage with both groups every day at work.
My apologies
You are absoultely correct, NECESSARILY, should be there, (maybe my ability to spell the work caused the exclusion). No sour grapes as I am neither a pilot or cabin crew, but engage with both groups every day at work.
My apologies
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: EU
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pax question
Hi,
I am copying a question from another forum that I hope someone here can respond to. The answer would have a significant impact on the flight plans of many.
In effect, has notice been given to strike yet, or does the 7 day waiting period still apply.
I am copying a question from another forum that I hope someone here can respond to. The answer would have a significant impact on the flight plans of many.
...if there was to be a strike on say 30th Jan, then would it be obligatory to give notice 7 days prior on 23rd Jan...
Or does the fact that the announcement was made on 15th Jan, gives staff permission to strike anytime after 22nd Jan (and within 28 days of 15th Jan), without giving a further 7 days notice prior to the start of the actual strike date.
Or does the fact that the announcement was made on 15th Jan, gives staff permission to strike anytime after 22nd Jan (and within 28 days of 15th Jan), without giving a further 7 days notice prior to the start of the actual strike date.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did I just get moderated?!
As I said in a missing post, I fully support BASSA in their actions. I feel that BA flight deck should support this action as it may be them at some time in the future, due to technology changes, hence the posts. If people don't see it this way ignore the posts, or better still, delete them!
As I said in a missing post, I fully support BASSA in their actions. I feel that BA flight deck should support this action as it may be them at some time in the future, due to technology changes, hence the posts. If people don't see it this way ignore the posts, or better still, delete them!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Captains authority
Yep, as described previously, absolute, while in charge of the airplane, and this extends to after duty times as well, such as while in immigration at outstations.
I suppose that a few 'law unto themselves' CC, believing that their union can bring havoc to an airline with their malcontent ideas, really can't see the light, and this would absolutely be quite typical of this sort.
Also, I'm quite sure that BA will impose their will on these malcontents, union or not.
I suspect that WW has the full support of the shareholders, who quite understand that CC have to be brought into line in todays low-cost environment.
Yep, the glory days are over folks, especially for CC...get used to it.
If I were WW, I would have quietly begun hiring replacements months ago, in anticipation of 'problems' from CC...hey, maybe he did.
I suppose that a few 'law unto themselves' CC, believing that their union can bring havoc to an airline with their malcontent ideas, really can't see the light, and this would absolutely be quite typical of this sort.
Also, I'm quite sure that BA will impose their will on these malcontents, union or not.
I suspect that WW has the full support of the shareholders, who quite understand that CC have to be brought into line in todays low-cost environment.
Yep, the glory days are over folks, especially for CC...get used to it.
If I were WW, I would have quietly begun hiring replacements months ago, in anticipation of 'problems' from CC...hey, maybe he did.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Liverpool
Age: 47
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Carnage Matey!
Thanks for your reply. In actual fact, you know the truth is much more balanced than the extremist view stated in your response.
If a captain, for example, always orders the IFE to remain switched off all flight, then everyone must comply with this as the captain has the ultimate say (basically your argument, not contradicted by me).
The company doesn't employ captains to decide that the IFE must remain switched off all flight for no apparent reason. If a captain were found to be giving this order on their flights, the company would challenge this. The captain works for their employer has to do their best for the company (obvious; stated by me and surely not contradicted by you...?).
On your next flight, why don't you try giving the order that the IFE must remain switched off as you would like to take the opportunity to tell racist jokes over the PA. Hum... you're the boss, right?
Happy flying
BlueQ
Thanks for your reply. In actual fact, you know the truth is much more balanced than the extremist view stated in your response.
If a captain, for example, always orders the IFE to remain switched off all flight, then everyone must comply with this as the captain has the ultimate say (basically your argument, not contradicted by me).
The company doesn't employ captains to decide that the IFE must remain switched off all flight for no apparent reason. If a captain were found to be giving this order on their flights, the company would challenge this. The captain works for their employer has to do their best for the company (obvious; stated by me and surely not contradicted by you...?).
On your next flight, why don't you try giving the order that the IFE must remain switched off as you would like to take the opportunity to tell racist jokes over the PA. Hum... you're the boss, right?
Happy flying
BlueQ
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're trying to make some esoteric point that I don't think anybody understands. If the Captain orders the IFE to remain off, off it will remain. If he cites lack of confidence in the system or requires less unnecessary electrical load, then that is that. He will be responsible for hs decisions as he would be if he told racist jokes on the PA- I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Can we bring the discussion back to some common sense? It's time the CC realised that they must be part of the real commercial world and realise what is going on outside will impact in BA. Many of the CC themselves appear to be unsure exactly why they are going to be striking- this is going to be a humiliating failure, announced as a 'glorious' victory by the strike leaders as people come in like sheep to work rather than lose their jobs and staff travel!
er, a diversion?
er, excuse me, but isn't all this input about who is in charge of what something of a diversion?
The law is nice and simple....the Captain is in charge. Whlist that does make them think that they are gods in some cases, the good ones do try to creat a positive culture.
Now, can we get back to the revolting CC stories?
thanks
The law is nice and simple....the Captain is in charge. Whlist that does make them think that they are gods in some cases, the good ones do try to creat a positive culture.
Now, can we get back to the revolting CC stories?
thanks