BA Cabin Crew Strike Threat
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I am absolutely disgusted (and hurt) at the shocking level of disdain a lot of people here have for cabin crew within British Airways. It's horrible. I don't know what the problem is.
Three years ago, about a week before I started my training with British Airways, I attended a Pprune Do where I met some of this forum's biggest and brightest. Pilots, cabin crew, ATCs, members of the public. It was an enjoyable evening and the sense of unity amongs the attendees was great. I suppose this industry, more than any other, has always had a close knit feel about it.
If you ever see another airline's staff flying on your flights, you'd do all you could to look after them. That's admirable but that's aviation. We're like one big community split between different companies. Now, sadly, it looks like times have changed.
The days of that close knit community feel in this industry seem to have long gone and it's turned in to a very depressing place to be.
I note that the majority of the anti-cabin crew comments on here are from flight crew, and I'm hardly surprised. There has always, despite what I said above, been a lot of tension between these two communities and I'm not scared to admit that most of it stems from the cabin crew side of the door.
We're not all like that, though. I visit the flight deck on every flight I take. I make sure the guys up there know what the cabin crew have planned for the trip and I ensure that, during the flight, the guys know they can call me for things they aren't being offered by their 'designated' crew.
Threads like this which highlight the ill-feeling between our two communities, however, make me question why I make such an effort - certainly when I cast my mind back to the time an FO almost beat the sh*t out of me in Singapore.
Yet, I know, I'll get on my next flight and things will be normal. I couldn't bring myself to joining the ranks of anti-flight crew cabin crew out there. It's unhealthy.
I remind everyone that the flight crew were ready to ballot if they weren't happy with the result of their own negotiations with the company. What would the reaction have been had the pilots been set to walk, too? Not quite as offensive and not quite as insulting, I would expect.
Striking is a terrible prospect and I'm sick inside at the thought of it. That said, I know I have little choice. It's either accept a pay cut of some 40%, sell my home in Scotland, move to a flat share in London because I couldn't afford the commute and never leave my room again on a nightstop OR fight to keep what the company is already giving us AND profiting every year while sustaining, enjoy the ability to head out on trips and enjoy the destinations I'm visiting, keep my home and continue to live in Scotland where my friends, family and ill mother are.
I don't want to, guys, but I'm going to fight. I have no real alternative.
Three years ago, about a week before I started my training with British Airways, I attended a Pprune Do where I met some of this forum's biggest and brightest. Pilots, cabin crew, ATCs, members of the public. It was an enjoyable evening and the sense of unity amongs the attendees was great. I suppose this industry, more than any other, has always had a close knit feel about it.
If you ever see another airline's staff flying on your flights, you'd do all you could to look after them. That's admirable but that's aviation. We're like one big community split between different companies. Now, sadly, it looks like times have changed.
The days of that close knit community feel in this industry seem to have long gone and it's turned in to a very depressing place to be.
I note that the majority of the anti-cabin crew comments on here are from flight crew, and I'm hardly surprised. There has always, despite what I said above, been a lot of tension between these two communities and I'm not scared to admit that most of it stems from the cabin crew side of the door.
We're not all like that, though. I visit the flight deck on every flight I take. I make sure the guys up there know what the cabin crew have planned for the trip and I ensure that, during the flight, the guys know they can call me for things they aren't being offered by their 'designated' crew.
Threads like this which highlight the ill-feeling between our two communities, however, make me question why I make such an effort - certainly when I cast my mind back to the time an FO almost beat the sh*t out of me in Singapore.
Yet, I know, I'll get on my next flight and things will be normal. I couldn't bring myself to joining the ranks of anti-flight crew cabin crew out there. It's unhealthy.
I remind everyone that the flight crew were ready to ballot if they weren't happy with the result of their own negotiations with the company. What would the reaction have been had the pilots been set to walk, too? Not quite as offensive and not quite as insulting, I would expect.
Striking is a terrible prospect and I'm sick inside at the thought of it. That said, I know I have little choice. It's either accept a pay cut of some 40%, sell my home in Scotland, move to a flat share in London because I couldn't afford the commute and never leave my room again on a nightstop OR fight to keep what the company is already giving us AND profiting every year while sustaining, enjoy the ability to head out on trips and enjoy the destinations I'm visiting, keep my home and continue to live in Scotland where my friends, family and ill mother are.
I don't want to, guys, but I'm going to fight. I have no real alternative.
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Very interesting thread indeed, will be intrigued by the actions taken by BASSA and BA management over the next few months. I will say as an outsider I do not know a great deal about remuneration packages and the furore over crew sick leave. It is obvious, however, that WW wishes to cost cut at the expense of crew allowances and this makes sense when BA crew (cabin crew in particular) are earning well in excess of the industry standard. (ref: CAA statistics). This should not distract us from the reality that many new cabin crew are on moderate salaries.
As flightdeck I have been watching BA closely, deciding whether a move would be a good think for the long term future. The company has its pro's and con's.. some of the con's being the classics; time to command, loop hole in the pension scheme etc. However, from a social aspect one of the most powerful deterrents is the alleged tension between flightdeck and cabin crew. At my previous employers there has always been one or two individuals who seem to fit this description (mainly cabin crew but flightdeck also), but no where near the extent I have heard of at BA. I have been warned repeatedly of the antagonism and tension shown either side of the dead bolt door, admittedly by ex-BA flightcrew but also others who have never worked there.. how much truth is in this? Some of the stories are horiffic, but they always come down to older experienced SCCM (I believe BA refer to them as cabin services directors
). Are these fair assumptions or am I receiving information from a biased prospective.
I value the interaction between flight and cabin crew.. teamwork is paramount to success. As a young social individual what I don't want is sh1t from some old miserable disgruntled individual who earns more than me (that I can just about handle), thinks there above me in rank and tries to tell me what to do.. please tell me these are horror stories that contain no real substance
. Cathay P is looking more and more tempting by the minute.
I hope this issue is resolved amicably for all parties concerned.. it's the loyal customers that suffer in the end (always the way).. tragic for an airline with such a well established history, sorry for creating a tangent to this thread!!
As flightdeck I have been watching BA closely, deciding whether a move would be a good think for the long term future. The company has its pro's and con's.. some of the con's being the classics; time to command, loop hole in the pension scheme etc. However, from a social aspect one of the most powerful deterrents is the alleged tension between flightdeck and cabin crew. At my previous employers there has always been one or two individuals who seem to fit this description (mainly cabin crew but flightdeck also), but no where near the extent I have heard of at BA. I have been warned repeatedly of the antagonism and tension shown either side of the dead bolt door, admittedly by ex-BA flightcrew but also others who have never worked there.. how much truth is in this? Some of the stories are horiffic, but they always come down to older experienced SCCM (I believe BA refer to them as cabin services directors
). Are these fair assumptions or am I receiving information from a biased prospective.I value the interaction between flight and cabin crew.. teamwork is paramount to success. As a young social individual what I don't want is sh1t from some old miserable disgruntled individual who earns more than me (that I can just about handle), thinks there above me in rank and tries to tell me what to do.. please tell me these are horror stories that contain no real substance
. Cathay P is looking more and more tempting by the minute.I hope this issue is resolved amicably for all parties concerned.. it's the loyal customers that suffer in the end (always the way).. tragic for an airline with such a well established history, sorry for creating a tangent to this thread!!
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747, mate, despite my post above, I have to say that I LOVE WORKING FOR BRITISH AIRWAYS and so do most of the other people here. The company has it's issues like any other, but in general, it's a great place to work.
Join us.
Join us.
747 Downwind.
In my experience the vast majority of BA Cabin Crew are great to work with. However I do fear for the future following the recent spat between some of the BALPA and some of the BASSA Reps. That has already filtered down to the "troops" and has, apparently led to some interesting conversations downroute. If things turn really ugly for the Cabin Crew and BASSA then no doubt it'll be spun by some as being the pilots' fault - what price CRM then?
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Cabin crew and flt crew are the most mercenancy breed I have have even known. All they are interested in are themselves and they have no interest or any part in any other part of BA. They will be the death of BA with little thought of the the true supporters of BA who have carried them for years. WW should sack them all all and offer contracts that suit them ? and start again and rejoin the real world. Please remember the staff that have to mop up and keep the programme going. Forget the money grabbing crew and get some real crew ??????
Get a real life
Get a real life
- explain how cabin crew can take more interest in other parts of BA
- maybe this current management will be the death of BA...have you stopped to consider that?
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Ok crack open a beer and watch the sport begin.
Long time coming for these overpaid prima-donnas but WW is going to get you now.
Onwards and upwards. After BASSA's bullsh1t and attacks on our hard working, intelligent and honest reps I can't wait.
Now we will see what your stupid half-illiterate BASSA leaders are made of.
Bring it on.
Long time coming for these overpaid prima-donnas but WW is going to get you now.
Onwards and upwards. After BASSA's bullsh1t and attacks on our hard working, intelligent and honest reps I can't wait.
Now we will see what your stupid half-illiterate BASSA leaders are made of.
Bring it on.
FYI Amicus are now one step closer to issuing a ballot for further action, and that from 'the more level headed and sensible union'.
Might just give an indication to how bad the talks are going are behind the scenes.
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Hypocrisy?
I do find it rather puzzling that the same people who were quite ready to consider a pilot strike with support from the other unions, now seem to be taking umbrage that the cabin crew might have the audacity to consider that course of action themselves?
Is it that the same 'I'm alright Jack' fringe that has so critically undermined the status of flight crew in the last 15 years is still alive and well in the top third of the seniority list?
BALPA may well have conducted a campaign that makes other campaigns look less professional, but we did so against a background of general support from BASSA. I think we would do well to remember that before we vilify them.
Is it that the same 'I'm alright Jack' fringe that has so critically undermined the status of flight crew in the last 15 years is still alive and well in the top third of the seniority list?
BALPA may well have conducted a campaign that makes other campaigns look less professional, but we did so against a background of general support from BASSA. I think we would do well to remember that before we vilify them.
Controversial, moi?
I remind everyone that the flight crew were ready to ballot if they weren't happy with the result of their own negotiations with the company. What would the reaction have been had the pilots been set to walk, too? Not quite as offensive and not quite as insulting, I would expect.
BASSA's vote timing, their disingenuous attack on BALPA and one individual in particular, coupled with the unrealistic demands listed in their ballot paper and the plain scaremongering to ensure a resounding yes vote have reinforced in my mind what I have always suspected - BASSA is led by aggressive, unpleasant individuals with a hidden agenda. They have led their members down an unwinnable path and the results are not going to be pretty.
They have backed themselves, and more importantly their members, into a corner. Any strike will not be solid (witness the last one!) and although the day of reckoning for BASSA and CC is long, long overdue it will weaken all staff groups within BA and make the already appalling excuse for management in BA almost unbearable.
One outcome at least will be that when disruption occurs I will be given the tools to get our long suffering passengers to their destination without some jumped up little squirt telephoning 'the union' to find out what time they reach their industrial agreement hours limitation in order to tell me what time they are walking, despite LEGALLY being able to continue using Captain's discretion.
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Well said M Mouse.BASSA is in need of a reality check (so are the cabin crew management for that matter).If the strike does go ahead i know of many cabin crew who will go in and tear up there union cards.
The big losers are the passengers who pay the wages-again!
If the cabin crew management didn't see this coming (as STS says)their heads must truly be in the sand.
The big losers are the passengers who pay the wages-again!
If the cabin crew management didn't see this coming (as STS says)their heads must truly be in the sand.
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M.Mouse, I'm up for civilized discussion on this and would welcome your input. Let's try and block out the inance ramblings posted by many of the previous participants on this thread and talk about FACTS or, atleast, facts as we see them.
You say Bassa has made some unrealistic requests. What are these in your opinion? What do YOU feel should be taken off the table ?
Cheers
You say Bassa has made some unrealistic requests. What are these in your opinion? What do YOU feel should be taken off the table ?
Cheers
Unrealistic demands? How about re-opening Man base? BA is a business, not a welfare organization, existing solely for the benefit of its employees.
ps Flew two sectors today. Crew on both sectors were operating one out or one home. Not that it happens often I know!
ps Flew two sectors today. Crew on both sectors were operating one out or one home. Not that it happens often I know!
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Eddy,
Nice post. I am not one of the flight crew who rant on about cabin crew and I think that the vast majority of BA cabin crew do a great job.
However, what concerns me is the spin BASSA have put on a lot of the issues involved in order to whip the troops up into a frenzy. The worst excess of this was the now infamous 'diary of a stewardess' in the last BASSA newsletter.
On my flight yesterday I asked 3 cabin crew what they were striking about and nobody could come up with a sensible answer. I have no problem at all with you voting to strike but only if you base that decision on truths and facts.
The reason I say this is I have a real problem with this part of your post:-
Please can you tell me which one of the 12 items you have voted to strike over (and I have looked at all of them) involves you taking a 40% pay cut and having to sell your house? I have looked hard and cannot find it. Please don't interpret this as having a pop at you, I genuinely want to know what this pay cut is.
Don't pay too much attention to all the anti cabin crew rants on there. Forums like this tend to attract some quite outspoken individuals!
ATB
Nice post. I am not one of the flight crew who rant on about cabin crew and I think that the vast majority of BA cabin crew do a great job.
However, what concerns me is the spin BASSA have put on a lot of the issues involved in order to whip the troops up into a frenzy. The worst excess of this was the now infamous 'diary of a stewardess' in the last BASSA newsletter.
On my flight yesterday I asked 3 cabin crew what they were striking about and nobody could come up with a sensible answer. I have no problem at all with you voting to strike but only if you base that decision on truths and facts.
The reason I say this is I have a real problem with this part of your post:-
Striking is a terrible prospect and I'm sick inside at the thought of it. That said, I know I have little choice. It's either accept a pay cut of some 40%, sell my home in Scotland, move to a flat share in London because I couldn't afford the commute and never leave my room again on a nightstop OR fight to keep what the company is already giving us AND profiting every year while sustaining, enjoy the ability to head out on trips and enjoy the destinations I'm visiting, keep my home and continue to live in Scotland where my friends, family and ill mother are.
Don't pay too much attention to all the anti cabin crew rants on there. Forums like this tend to attract some quite outspoken individuals!
ATB
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One outcome at least will be that when disruption occurs I will be given the tools to get our long suffering passengers to their destination without some jumped up little squirt telephoning 'the union' to find out what time they reach their industrial agreement hours limitation in order to tell me what time they are walking,
Maybe the decision making process is another 'perceived' status issue?
i know of many cabin crew who will go in and tear up there union cards.
Guys your fellow workers behind the flight deck door are NOT the enemy! You are taking your eye off the ball, and causing HUGE damage to working relations.
On my flight yesterday I asked 3 cabin crew what they were striking about and nobody could come up with a sensible answer. I have no problem at all with you voting to strike but only if you base that decision on truths and facts.
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M.Mouse, I'm up for civilized discussion on this and would welcome your input. Let's try and block out the inance ramblings posted by many of the previous participants on this thread and talk about FACTS or, atleast, facts as we see them.
You say Bassa has made some unrealistic requests. What are these in your opinion? What do YOU feel should be taken off the table ?
Cheers
You say Bassa has made some unrealistic requests. What are these in your opinion? What do YOU feel should be taken off the table ?
Cheers
Reopen the MAN base (why not add BHX GLA and MAN BAR, or BFS Shuttle)
Transition of new contract pay to old (who's going to pay for that)
Fixed links (standard practice at any other scheduled airline)
Purser/Junior swap (too many chiefs, not enough indians, plus it's only 1 in 7 longhaul purser positions lost, not all promotion prospects for the future like BASSA claim)
The rest of your requests could probably be achieved by negotiation. The problem is BASSA do not believe they have to negotiate seriously. Even yesterdays release, that they were "willing to move a little bit" (my emphasis) suggests that they are out of touch with the real commercial environment. Just to put the cherry on top of the icing on the cake they then walked away from the best pension deal yet, accused BALPA (their closest allies so far) of selling them out, attempted to steal all the credit for the deal then launched a personal attack on one of our reps.
The problem with this whole situation is that it's one huge dust up that has been orchestrated by BASSA to flex some industrial muscle and they have misjudged the mood. If we turned the clock back to October and asked crew if they could see a strike in the next 4 months how many would say yes? 10%, and I'd hazard a guess they'd think it was over pensions. BASSA has cobbled together a huge list of minor grievances and a couple of major ones then gone on a scare-mongering mission to persuade people to vote yes without bothering to mention the consequences to their members. Now they are surprised that BA haven't buckled and they'll have to lose cash and go out on strike.
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Discretion and industrial agreements are entirely different things. It's been several years since I've not gone beyond my agreements, but I have set limits on the amount of discretion I have used in the interests of safety. This is rarely an issue for CC who ring BASSA and get off the aircraft before they get near to requiring discretion
Difference is that we knew what we were fightin over!
I asked a CSD why they were considering strike action. His answe was that it was to support the union. Support the union? Shouldn't it be the other way round. As a CSD and member of BASSA I expected a slightly more coherent answer than that from him.
I asked a CSD why they were considering strike action. His answe was that it was to support the union. Support the union? Shouldn't it be the other way round. As a CSD and member of BASSA I expected a slightly more coherent answer than that from him.