BA to recruit DEPs on to the 744.
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I posted this section (which I have repeated in quotes below here)in October of last year. Since then things have accelerated downhill. Think hard folks, before you join us. I say this not out of a peverse desire to stop people applying for BA, but to set out how, for me, depressing and sad working for this company is. Self-esteem and self-respect are valuable things too, and BA have a knack for stripping them away from flightcrew.
I am relatively senior in BA, and yet have come to loathe what the company has become. They pursued a 31 year BA Captain over an event where his "crime" was very much a matter of subjective judgement on the day. He collapsed and died. They rip off DEP's who join us with qualifications that they paid for themselves by placing them on a pay scale designed for those whose licences BA have paid for.They ignore agreements with flightcrew at will, and yet crucify anyone of us who steps even a smudge across any one of a set of lines that they change by the week, and they foster a climate where cabin crew openly "diss", (as in "disrespect"), the junior co-pilots, who, never-the-less, are somehow meant to metamorphose into "Captains for the Future" after years in which staff with negligable qualifictaions have earned significantly more than they have.
I would add that I am not exorcising some personal gripe here; I am not a junior DEP or CEP, but an A scale of over a decade with BA. I am sickened by what is being done to new entrants to a profession I chose and am still very proud of having achieved.
Before a tirade of self-righteous folk remind me I can leave if I want to, I would add that, in the absence of very significant change in pay and attitude from our company, I will be doing just that. There have to be more positive mental and emotional climates to work in, and I believe it is worth the wrench of giving up years of "goodwill" invested into the seniority system and the pension to achieve that. It will be a bitter blow to leave a company I was eager and enthusiastic to work for when I set out.
Here's the stuff I wrote seven months ago-it's a sad commentary to see a similar thread to this origional one circulating again:
"I recall someone who came to the A320 fleet in BA from Air 2000, same type. He did fine on the course and line training, but left back to Air 2000 after about 6 weeks on line. Why? He loathed endless gypsy tours around europe with cabin crew who rarely socialised with "flightdeck", and the roster was MORE debilitating than his previous one. 22 days flying a month to make CAP with us, average sector about 1hr and 20 Min and lots of multi sector days. 16 days with Air 2000 and mainly there and backs , home to your own bed and friendly faces on the odd nightstop that did occur in a month.
BA is not the valhalla it might have been. Morale is nil and agreements are under constant threat. Pay cut this year, low rates for new starters, and a culture of contempt from many (not all) managers towards line crew.
Time to command will be an issue for many new starters too.
I would say that our one merit was stability, but with a share price of 2.60 odd UKP it has to be a break-up target on someone's hit list."
I am relatively senior in BA, and yet have come to loathe what the company has become. They pursued a 31 year BA Captain over an event where his "crime" was very much a matter of subjective judgement on the day. He collapsed and died. They rip off DEP's who join us with qualifications that they paid for themselves by placing them on a pay scale designed for those whose licences BA have paid for.They ignore agreements with flightcrew at will, and yet crucify anyone of us who steps even a smudge across any one of a set of lines that they change by the week, and they foster a climate where cabin crew openly "diss", (as in "disrespect"), the junior co-pilots, who, never-the-less, are somehow meant to metamorphose into "Captains for the Future" after years in which staff with negligable qualifictaions have earned significantly more than they have.
I would add that I am not exorcising some personal gripe here; I am not a junior DEP or CEP, but an A scale of over a decade with BA. I am sickened by what is being done to new entrants to a profession I chose and am still very proud of having achieved.
Before a tirade of self-righteous folk remind me I can leave if I want to, I would add that, in the absence of very significant change in pay and attitude from our company, I will be doing just that. There have to be more positive mental and emotional climates to work in, and I believe it is worth the wrench of giving up years of "goodwill" invested into the seniority system and the pension to achieve that. It will be a bitter blow to leave a company I was eager and enthusiastic to work for when I set out.
Here's the stuff I wrote seven months ago-it's a sad commentary to see a similar thread to this origional one circulating again:
"I recall someone who came to the A320 fleet in BA from Air 2000, same type. He did fine on the course and line training, but left back to Air 2000 after about 6 weeks on line. Why? He loathed endless gypsy tours around europe with cabin crew who rarely socialised with "flightdeck", and the roster was MORE debilitating than his previous one. 22 days flying a month to make CAP with us, average sector about 1hr and 20 Min and lots of multi sector days. 16 days with Air 2000 and mainly there and backs , home to your own bed and friendly faces on the odd nightstop that did occur in a month.
BA is not the valhalla it might have been. Morale is nil and agreements are under constant threat. Pay cut this year, low rates for new starters, and a culture of contempt from many (not all) managers towards line crew.
Time to command will be an issue for many new starters too.
I would say that our one merit was stability, but with a share price of 2.60 odd UKP it has to be a break-up target on someone's hit list."
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Loaded1
Sorry but I cannot remain silent any longer. You claim that you will be leaving BA if things don't improve but it would be very interesting to hear from you again after twelve months working for another operator.
I have experience of two other operators prior to BA and while I would be the first to acknowledge that not everything is perfect (funny I have never worked for a company where it is) I cannot think of another UK airline that I would rather be working for.
New entrant pay will have to be addressed in the future if the rumours are correct that the flow of new entrants is drying up but despite rumours to the contrary very few people have left BA although undoubtedly a few have and this in itself is a significant change from past years.
I have numerous friends in other airlines (one of whom turned down a job with BA because he has considerable seniority in Brittania and could not afford the pay drop) and although they have what can be described as good positions when I look at the overall package - choice of aircraft, pension, lifestyle, route structure, staff travel, etc. - I am afraid that BA compares very favourably and I actually enjoy working for the company.
I fail to see how so many of these negative postings that make sweeping assertions and generalisations can actually improve matters apart from frightening off potential recruits so creating a shortage in order to jack the starter rates up.
Actually that's a thought I wouldn't recommend anybody to join this awful underpaid, overworked sweatshop of an airline.
Finally to Normal_Nigel I have read PPRuNe for some considerable time and noted that nearly all your postings are gratuitously offensive and unpleasant. I can't make up my mind whether you do it on purpose to provoke reaction or whether you are just immature. Whichever it is you might care to reflect on the impression it gives to others.
And before anybody starts, no I am not management but just an ordinary 15 year line captain with 6 years to go.
[This message has been edited by Andy_Pandy (edited 03 April 2001).]
Sorry but I cannot remain silent any longer. You claim that you will be leaving BA if things don't improve but it would be very interesting to hear from you again after twelve months working for another operator.
I have experience of two other operators prior to BA and while I would be the first to acknowledge that not everything is perfect (funny I have never worked for a company where it is) I cannot think of another UK airline that I would rather be working for.
New entrant pay will have to be addressed in the future if the rumours are correct that the flow of new entrants is drying up but despite rumours to the contrary very few people have left BA although undoubtedly a few have and this in itself is a significant change from past years.
I have numerous friends in other airlines (one of whom turned down a job with BA because he has considerable seniority in Brittania and could not afford the pay drop) and although they have what can be described as good positions when I look at the overall package - choice of aircraft, pension, lifestyle, route structure, staff travel, etc. - I am afraid that BA compares very favourably and I actually enjoy working for the company.
I fail to see how so many of these negative postings that make sweeping assertions and generalisations can actually improve matters apart from frightening off potential recruits so creating a shortage in order to jack the starter rates up.
Actually that's a thought I wouldn't recommend anybody to join this awful underpaid, overworked sweatshop of an airline.
Finally to Normal_Nigel I have read PPRuNe for some considerable time and noted that nearly all your postings are gratuitously offensive and unpleasant. I can't make up my mind whether you do it on purpose to provoke reaction or whether you are just immature. Whichever it is you might care to reflect on the impression it gives to others.
And before anybody starts, no I am not management but just an ordinary 15 year line captain with 6 years to go.
[This message has been edited by Andy_Pandy (edited 03 April 2001).]
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So pleased to read all this, please don’t take it to a private forum, as to do so would make it useless. I am a captain with virgin express and in need of another job as this one has finished. After reading this thread I will be using BA as a last resort and probably not at all.
Having applied for a few jobs and received positive responses for the majority, (long and short haul) I did apply to BA, received the forms, which are still on my desk untouched.
It appears to me whilst there are still idiots like “normal” Nigel working for BA its not really the place for neither myself nor any respectable professional.
Paying CC more than any pilot regardless of seniority, age, looks, or any other excuse they can dream up is outrages and only adds to the degrading position a new employee would put themselves in. This fact alone typifies the obvious respect the senior management have for pilots and I feel they should try running the airline without us.
Why do people with any experience stay? I can see that the Nigel lovers would not be welcome elsewhere but they could stay as they and the management deserve each other.
Having applied for a few jobs and received positive responses for the majority, (long and short haul) I did apply to BA, received the forms, which are still on my desk untouched.
It appears to me whilst there are still idiots like “normal” Nigel working for BA its not really the place for neither myself nor any respectable professional.
Paying CC more than any pilot regardless of seniority, age, looks, or any other excuse they can dream up is outrages and only adds to the degrading position a new employee would put themselves in. This fact alone typifies the obvious respect the senior management have for pilots and I feel they should try running the airline without us.
Why do people with any experience stay? I can see that the Nigel lovers would not be welcome elsewhere but they could stay as they and the management deserve each other.
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Chr1st, is it really that bad. Do the BA posters really know what it is like to do 3 night flights or a "there and back" Luxor. Do they compare a start of the month roster to the one they end up with and see if there are any similarities?
I'm thinking of going to BA and it would be nice to hear from those guys who are reasonably happy. I'm not a "rose tinted spectacles" kind of person and know BA isn't perfect but there must be some contented people!
I'm thinking of going to BA and it would be nice to hear from those guys who are reasonably happy. I'm not a "rose tinted spectacles" kind of person and know BA isn't perfect but there must be some contented people!
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Andy Pandy. That's an entirely fair reply. I would merely say the following:
1) I was quite specific about the things that the company has done and are doing to make me feel the way I do, and not trying to make sweeping generalisations. I accept that my response to these events is a personal one and that others may be less concerned than I am about what has gone on and is, I suspect, to come from our employer.
2) I have no personal axe to grind about new entrant pay, as I made clear. I am just sad to see the new entrants to our profession being treated in this way. In the long run, I am sure it will have a deleterious effect.
3) I have some doubts that other operators are now so much worse. Yes, they have fewer types on smaller route networks with a lower limit to their pay scales. BUT, some offer good salaries to new entrants and the middle ranks, earlier commands than we do, and fly less annual hours whilst enjoying positive and harmonious relations with their cabin crew. If I were starting out again and knew what I know now, I would think very hard about where I went in the light of the pay scales and working atmosphere we now offer.
4) Further, I also suspect that the long term response from BA to the "windfall" that our retirement bulge is giving them by reducing numbers on the top rates of pay will ultimately be a concerted attempt to restrict the access to the top salary rates and reduce them as well. I can not see a company that has taken such an aggressive stance on staff costs allowing a pilot salary bill that has fallen in the way that ours has to rise again as the next generation reach those upper levels. This tactic of "capping" access to the upper pay scales has hit the regions and LGW. Where next? A betting man would suggest shorthaul LHR. What are any of us prepared to do to stop it?
I have good friends who fly for Monarch and Air 2000, as well as BRAL, and BEA. Those in the former two are thinking long and hard about whether to leave. I do not suggest they are a panacea, just that things are less clear cut by a long way now.
5) No, I will not be joining another UK airline if I leave. We all know that, after a certain point, a combination of the seniority position and the pension factors make starting out again in another UK airline a non-runner from the opportunity cost analysis perspective.
6) Quite fair to ask me whether I will put up or shut up and where I'll be in twelve months though. As I said, unless we are able to secure a pay settlement that puts us back among the norm for international operators in the Western world AND achieve a better working environment on the back of it, I will follow through and keep you posted! I am sure it'll be a relief for BA to be shot of critics like me.
1) I was quite specific about the things that the company has done and are doing to make me feel the way I do, and not trying to make sweeping generalisations. I accept that my response to these events is a personal one and that others may be less concerned than I am about what has gone on and is, I suspect, to come from our employer.
2) I have no personal axe to grind about new entrant pay, as I made clear. I am just sad to see the new entrants to our profession being treated in this way. In the long run, I am sure it will have a deleterious effect.
3) I have some doubts that other operators are now so much worse. Yes, they have fewer types on smaller route networks with a lower limit to their pay scales. BUT, some offer good salaries to new entrants and the middle ranks, earlier commands than we do, and fly less annual hours whilst enjoying positive and harmonious relations with their cabin crew. If I were starting out again and knew what I know now, I would think very hard about where I went in the light of the pay scales and working atmosphere we now offer.
4) Further, I also suspect that the long term response from BA to the "windfall" that our retirement bulge is giving them by reducing numbers on the top rates of pay will ultimately be a concerted attempt to restrict the access to the top salary rates and reduce them as well. I can not see a company that has taken such an aggressive stance on staff costs allowing a pilot salary bill that has fallen in the way that ours has to rise again as the next generation reach those upper levels. This tactic of "capping" access to the upper pay scales has hit the regions and LGW. Where next? A betting man would suggest shorthaul LHR. What are any of us prepared to do to stop it?
I have good friends who fly for Monarch and Air 2000, as well as BRAL, and BEA. Those in the former two are thinking long and hard about whether to leave. I do not suggest they are a panacea, just that things are less clear cut by a long way now.
5) No, I will not be joining another UK airline if I leave. We all know that, after a certain point, a combination of the seniority position and the pension factors make starting out again in another UK airline a non-runner from the opportunity cost analysis perspective.
6) Quite fair to ask me whether I will put up or shut up and where I'll be in twelve months though. As I said, unless we are able to secure a pay settlement that puts us back among the norm for international operators in the Western world AND achieve a better working environment on the back of it, I will follow through and keep you posted! I am sure it'll be a relief for BA to be shot of critics like me.
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I am sitting here with the BA application form on my desk wondering whether to bother.
I am presently a Captain with a good scheduled airline with reasonable seniority, salary and pension to look forward too. Rostering could be better but it is a known quantity. I am well trained and have the privelege of flying with great colleagues.
Why should I put my family through the ordeal of BA selection and possible wait in the 'Hold' pool?
It is not for the prospect of a salary increase certainly. By all accounts the lifestyle is much of a muchness anyway. If I am selected I won't be offered a job straight off. The offer will turn up perhaps years later. I may even have a smaller pension. The working culture sounds very impersonal.
I think I'll leave it alone. Its not worth the kudos frankly.
I am presently a Captain with a good scheduled airline with reasonable seniority, salary and pension to look forward too. Rostering could be better but it is a known quantity. I am well trained and have the privelege of flying with great colleagues.
Why should I put my family through the ordeal of BA selection and possible wait in the 'Hold' pool?
It is not for the prospect of a salary increase certainly. By all accounts the lifestyle is much of a muchness anyway. If I am selected I won't be offered a job straight off. The offer will turn up perhaps years later. I may even have a smaller pension. The working culture sounds very impersonal.
I think I'll leave it alone. Its not worth the kudos frankly.
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Loaded1
Thanks for your reply and I can see why you feel the way you do.
I agree with your point that the dividing line between a BA/othe airline career is a lot less clear than it was. This can only be good for us less recruits = rising salaries.
My reason for posting was to counterbalance some of the more extreme views that gave the impression that BA is a dreadful airline to work for, it is not. It may not be the place of old eg gone is the pilots private dining room, Queens Building dormitory, days of sitting in the pilots lounge playing cards while on shuttle backup and getting paid a mint should you be called! We are also working harder than ever before but I still work less than my colleagues in some other airlines.
Son of Piltdown
You illustrate the point loaded1 makes - the dividing line is less clearcut than of old. I had the same dilemma when considering Cathay some years ago. It was shortly after the introduction of the 'B' scale and before the handover. I thought long and hard and then didn't return the completed application forms. Ten years previously I probably would not have hesitated. I made the right decision but it only becomes apparent over time. You have to make a judgement on the best information available at the time.
The Zombie
I hardly think your contribution adds anything to reasoned argument.
Thanks for your reply and I can see why you feel the way you do.
I agree with your point that the dividing line between a BA/othe airline career is a lot less clear than it was. This can only be good for us less recruits = rising salaries.
My reason for posting was to counterbalance some of the more extreme views that gave the impression that BA is a dreadful airline to work for, it is not. It may not be the place of old eg gone is the pilots private dining room, Queens Building dormitory, days of sitting in the pilots lounge playing cards while on shuttle backup and getting paid a mint should you be called! We are also working harder than ever before but I still work less than my colleagues in some other airlines.
Son of Piltdown
You illustrate the point loaded1 makes - the dividing line is less clearcut than of old. I had the same dilemma when considering Cathay some years ago. It was shortly after the introduction of the 'B' scale and before the handover. I thought long and hard and then didn't return the completed application forms. Ten years previously I probably would not have hesitated. I made the right decision but it only becomes apparent over time. You have to make a judgement on the best information available at the time.
The Zombie
I hardly think your contribution adds anything to reasoned argument.
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I've just read this thread, at the same time brousing through my DEP application form (which arrived this morning). I thought it might be an opportunity, seeing that there is a snow balls chance in hell of getting longhaul, as part of my companies integration into BA.
The thought of moving from one company where we've been shafted for years over pay and conditions(supply and demand), to BA and being shafted again is just too much.
My eyes are wide open now, and the application form is in the bin!!!!!
Thanks for the insight chaps.
The thought of moving from one company where we've been shafted for years over pay and conditions(supply and demand), to BA and being shafted again is just too much.
My eyes are wide open now, and the application form is in the bin!!!!!
Thanks for the insight chaps.
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">junior trash</font>
As I have said before, the guys at the top of the tree fight tooth and nail to protect what they see as their inheritance. Instead of supporting their more junior colleagues, offering them a hand up or a BALPA vote, theyīd rather spit on those near the bottom than work together as a common pilot force. The real Rod of course knows this and will apply his divide and conquer techniques.
Fear not low paid DEPīs, when the day of reckoning comes, the fleets will need to be filled with pilots and starting with the cheapest, we can guarantee our security in BA. Gone are the halcyon days Iīm afraid.
30% - youīre having a laugh! Lower payscales need it, but the 100k+ pilots couldnīt achieve that much gain, and so you canīt count on their vote.
Rod
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Loaded1,
Sorry to read that you feel leaving BA is now a possibility.
Having followed this thread and read the quality of your postings I sincerely hope you stay. Reasoned, intelligent debate is the only way forward and whilst you may both present different views, people like yourself and Andy Pandy would be sorely missed if they were to leave BA.
Hopefully you're just going through one of those patches that affect us all at some time or other and things will seem different in the near future.
One word of advice - the grass is definitely not greener on the other side. BA has it's faults but they're nothing compared to some of our competitors. Personally I think we have the worst set of cabin crew I've ever seen and I agree that the starting rates for experienced DEP's are a disgrace (Balpa's fault). However, roster's are almost cast in stone and the job security coupled with aircraft choice (eventually) are to be envied.
Don't throw away all the years of hard work for somewhere like the Middle East, the money cannot compensate for what you leave behind.
Regards.
Sorry to read that you feel leaving BA is now a possibility.
Having followed this thread and read the quality of your postings I sincerely hope you stay. Reasoned, intelligent debate is the only way forward and whilst you may both present different views, people like yourself and Andy Pandy would be sorely missed if they were to leave BA.
Hopefully you're just going through one of those patches that affect us all at some time or other and things will seem different in the near future.
One word of advice - the grass is definitely not greener on the other side. BA has it's faults but they're nothing compared to some of our competitors. Personally I think we have the worst set of cabin crew I've ever seen and I agree that the starting rates for experienced DEP's are a disgrace (Balpa's fault). However, roster's are almost cast in stone and the job security coupled with aircraft choice (eventually) are to be envied.
Don't throw away all the years of hard work for somewhere like the Middle East, the money cannot compensate for what you leave behind.
Regards.
Guest
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Rosters set in stone? Hahahahahahahahaha. My month at BA goes something like this - 14 days of work issued on the roster, about 50 block hours. 2 days after roster issue someone gets out the big black pen and goes "subbed to another fleet, given to training, added a trip here..." and before you know it what you printed out a week beforehand looks nothing like what you've got now. Somehow evey month there seems to be a cockup and I end up losing approx a third of my months' rostered work and picking up something else. And I'm not the only one.
Why am I saying this? Because I work on the 737 at LHR and this is one of the fleets advertised. The more experienced bods seem to be saying don't go for long haul, as a DEP you'll be better off on the 737. If you join that fleet you'll be coming in below me and I get done over every month on rosters and allowances.
Why am I saying this? Because I work on the 737 at LHR and this is one of the fleets advertised. The more experienced bods seem to be saying don't go for long haul, as a DEP you'll be better off on the 737. If you join that fleet you'll be coming in below me and I get done over every month on rosters and allowances.
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B Clam,
BA isn't all bad. I was a DEP on the -400 a few years back and the lifestyle, whilst not great, is not bad either.
On the '400 our rosters are reasonably stable - at the bottom of the seniority list we work hard - 5 or 6 trips a month, 3 or 4 of those will be East Coast 2 crew work. For that you will take home less than most FOs working in any of our Charter companies - after 3 years in BA I still don't earn (most months) what I did in Airtours as an FO.
I don't feel as fatigued as when I worked through summer schedules with Airtours, although this is beginning to change as we pick up more and more East coast stuff. If you join BA you will find that your life is ruled by Bidline - something that BA keeps very quiet until your induction week - it's only then that you find that at the bottom of the seniority list on your fleet you will be assigned work that no-one else wants, the senior guys cherry pick all the high paying and pleasant destinations and you get what's left. This is how it is and is not intended as a whinge - I just want you to be aware that the effect it has on your life is major and should not be disregarded.
Pay-wise the '400 is supposedly the fleet to be on. Again, at the bottom, it is very different - if I stay on the fleet as it is I will eventually earn a reasonable amount as it becomes my turn to cherry pick and leave the scraps for some other poor sap. I used the word supposedly because, as I found out recently, amongst a group of DEPs, most of whom were junior to me (just) and on SH fleets - I found I had the lowest take home salary of the whole group! (By about 4-500 pounds a month) I'm not kidding!
The upshot is, think carefully before joining BA, and think carefully before joining a LH fleet - you will be at the bottom of the pile for a long time. On a SH fleet which may attract CEPs your lifestyle still may not be perfect but it should improve as more junior people join beneath you - and you WILL earn more.
Would I have moved from Airtours given the choice again? Probably not all things considered - but I did move and must now make the best of it - maybe this next pay deal will help - maybe?
ATB,
Underdog
BA isn't all bad. I was a DEP on the -400 a few years back and the lifestyle, whilst not great, is not bad either.
On the '400 our rosters are reasonably stable - at the bottom of the seniority list we work hard - 5 or 6 trips a month, 3 or 4 of those will be East Coast 2 crew work. For that you will take home less than most FOs working in any of our Charter companies - after 3 years in BA I still don't earn (most months) what I did in Airtours as an FO.
I don't feel as fatigued as when I worked through summer schedules with Airtours, although this is beginning to change as we pick up more and more East coast stuff. If you join BA you will find that your life is ruled by Bidline - something that BA keeps very quiet until your induction week - it's only then that you find that at the bottom of the seniority list on your fleet you will be assigned work that no-one else wants, the senior guys cherry pick all the high paying and pleasant destinations and you get what's left. This is how it is and is not intended as a whinge - I just want you to be aware that the effect it has on your life is major and should not be disregarded.
Pay-wise the '400 is supposedly the fleet to be on. Again, at the bottom, it is very different - if I stay on the fleet as it is I will eventually earn a reasonable amount as it becomes my turn to cherry pick and leave the scraps for some other poor sap. I used the word supposedly because, as I found out recently, amongst a group of DEPs, most of whom were junior to me (just) and on SH fleets - I found I had the lowest take home salary of the whole group! (By about 4-500 pounds a month) I'm not kidding!
The upshot is, think carefully before joining BA, and think carefully before joining a LH fleet - you will be at the bottom of the pile for a long time. On a SH fleet which may attract CEPs your lifestyle still may not be perfect but it should improve as more junior people join beneath you - and you WILL earn more.
Would I have moved from Airtours given the choice again? Probably not all things considered - but I did move and must now make the best of it - maybe this next pay deal will help - maybe?
ATB,
Underdog
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EDDNR
Just twigged - did you used to be AYLGR?
As for life in BA, well it's all things to all Pilots. The trick is to find the bit your happiest with and stick with it until seniority brings it's reward. This takes patience as I have found over the past 15 years. When I joined my seniority number was 1925 and subsequently 330 BCAL pilots were added ahead of me putting my back to 2200+.
Now all these years later I am below 1000 and just beginning to see the rewards - would you begrudge me a little cream or should I bid for permanent reserve?
Just twigged - did you used to be AYLGR?
As for life in BA, well it's all things to all Pilots. The trick is to find the bit your happiest with and stick with it until seniority brings it's reward. This takes patience as I have found over the past 15 years. When I joined my seniority number was 1925 and subsequently 330 BCAL pilots were added ahead of me putting my back to 2200+.
Now all these years later I am below 1000 and just beginning to see the rewards - would you begrudge me a little cream or should I bid for permanent reserve?
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ETOPS - Yes, that was me. I had to go and resurrect myself, AYLGR is dead, long live EDDNR!
No disrespect to seniority, itīs just in BA the bidline system allows a highly leveraged gain to senior people, especially long haul, that will not be apparent to new applicants and the image of 120k BA pilots must be put right, either by sharing out the FHR or a 30% payrise.
Iīll get my coat.
Rod
No disrespect to seniority, itīs just in BA the bidline system allows a highly leveraged gain to senior people, especially long haul, that will not be apparent to new applicants and the image of 120k BA pilots must be put right, either by sharing out the FHR or a 30% payrise.
Iīll get my coat.
Rod
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Underdog,
Many, many thanks for a very informative post. I had absolutely no idea that the 744 was not a major money spinner even at the bottom of the seniority list. I assumed that as a DEP I would be taking home a min of Ģ3200 a month, I presumme this is not so?
Having said that I'll be taking home about Ģ2600 pcm for the next year with about 3 years to go to command with a very decent charter outfit. What would you recommend, stay or join BA?
Many, many thanks for a very informative post. I had absolutely no idea that the 744 was not a major money spinner even at the bottom of the seniority list. I assumed that as a DEP I would be taking home a min of Ģ3200 a month, I presumme this is not so?
Having said that I'll be taking home about Ģ2600 pcm for the next year with about 3 years to go to command with a very decent charter outfit. What would you recommend, stay or join BA?
Guest
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Chaos,
Stay! In a year's time you would be a bitterly dissatisfied person. I'm not up to date with the latest figures, but I think new entrants now are going to be behind an enormous bulge of people now in who are in the queue ahead for command. Many of the them are quite young, and you will not be enhanced. When they get their command slot, they will be in the LHS for 25+years. In other words, allowing for a future industry downturn, the queue for command could well be virtually indefinite. I have no axe to grind- I retire in 3+ years.
Stay! In a year's time you would be a bitterly dissatisfied person. I'm not up to date with the latest figures, but I think new entrants now are going to be behind an enormous bulge of people now in who are in the queue ahead for command. Many of the them are quite young, and you will not be enhanced. When they get their command slot, they will be in the LHS for 25+years. In other words, allowing for a future industry downturn, the queue for command could well be virtually indefinite. I have no axe to grind- I retire in 3+ years.
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Why do BA bother advertising for experienced type rated A320 / 747 pilots when they are then insulted by having to do the Applitude tests in order to continue. Surely the tests are designed for cadets to see if they are capable of the CAP 509 course.
BA need to drag themselves into this very competitive recruitment world. BA is not the be all and end all anymore, 3 out of the last 4 offered jobs with BA within my company have just turned them down, are they idiots or sensible????
BA need to drag themselves into this very competitive recruitment world. BA is not the be all and end all anymore, 3 out of the last 4 offered jobs with BA within my company have just turned them down, are they idiots or sensible????
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Underdog,
thanks for the thought provoking reply. I have a few months b4 I need to start making decisions. I am thinking of pressing for an airbus slot as this is the expanding fleet with the likelyhood of more CEP/DEPs being sent to this. As a result, the chance to climb up the bidding list will be there and more opportunities for a training position (something I am keen on).
I would appreciate yours or anybody elses comments on my ideas.
Following on from this, can any LHR Airbus drivers out there give me an idea of roster patterns/monthly take home. Thanks
thanks for the thought provoking reply. I have a few months b4 I need to start making decisions. I am thinking of pressing for an airbus slot as this is the expanding fleet with the likelyhood of more CEP/DEPs being sent to this. As a result, the chance to climb up the bidding list will be there and more opportunities for a training position (something I am keen on).
I would appreciate yours or anybody elses comments on my ideas.
Following on from this, can any LHR Airbus drivers out there give me an idea of roster patterns/monthly take home. Thanks