Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff

[THE POINTY END]

Any FR guys been refused entry with their own personal water yet? As Ryanair don't supply crew water, we have to bring our own. Now of course we can't take liquid aboard. Will they let us take empty bottles to fill up in the base airside, or are we doomed to a life of dehydration?
Personally, I'm sick to death of being treated in the same way as a potential beardy weirdy extremist. These people unfortunately are British citizens, but as they say, just because a dog is born in a stable, doesn't mean it's a f***ing horse!

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by Capt H Peacock

Whilst I completely understand the unacceptable frustration caused to passengers, the impact on crews has now reached a level where the stress of meaningless security and extra delays is in danger of affecting the safety of the operation.
I cannot accept that the public screening of flight crew for the gratification or amusement of the passengers justifies the disruption to the safety critical path of departure, turnaround, and rest. Try doing it four times a day.
I would like to see dedicated use of staff security searches out of the public gaze. Our personal credentials are checked more often than almost any other individuals. Surely there must be some acceptance that we are already vetted?
Security should be a partnership between the authorities and the operating crews. There should be mutual trust, there increasingly isn't.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s always struck me as incredibly stupid to subject Flight Crews to the indignity of a public security search. They should at least be afforded the respect of a dedicated and private screening.

[A330ismylittlebaby]

Originally Posted by CFD

ok extra security for pax, i was subject to this today.Although for some reason more procedures for departing uk than inbound.
What I dont understand is just what is the point of security passes.Recently had disclosure scotland for pass renewal.If this is of any use whatsoever why are the crew subject to the same procedures as pax.Witnessed today the crew carrying essential items only in clear plastic bags.No food,(i refuse to have the choice of 2 different flavoured sandwiches carried by my company for the rest of my career) consficated by security ( ark royal totallly agree) captain only mobile, no keys with immobiliser thingy, all crew left bags unsecured in crew room ( will insurance cough up with car nicked)?Crew searched shoes removed etc.As someone said to me today they wouldnt need anything special, they have control of the aircraft.
Please do not take this to mean that crew should not be subject to security, they should.I just question whether the disclosure scotland actually achieved anything.If the pass means anything at all then the same security checks should not be required,

Head down and waiting to be shot down!

The security pass isn't there to say you are not carrying anything dangerous, it is there to say hey what are you doing outside near the plane or what are you doing in that store room. that's why we carry the passes, and i only worked in the duty free shop but that's the reason you have a pass, you should still be checked going through security, even the security check eachother.

[Biggles' Apprentice]

Suspect Details released

ALI, Abdula, Ahmed
Date of birth (DOB): 10/10/1980
Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Cossor
DOB: 04/12/1982
Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

ALI, Shazad, Khuram
DOB: 11/06/1979
Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

HUSSAIN, Nabeel
DOB: 10/03/1984
Address: London, E4

HUSSAIN, Tanvir
DOB: 21/02/1981
Address: Leyton, London, E10

HUSSAIN, Umair
DOB: 09/10/1981
Address: London, E14

ISLAM, Umar
DOB: 23/04/1978
Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KAYANI, Waseem
DOB: 28/04/1977
Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

KHAN, Assan, Abdullah
DOB: 24/10/1984
Address: London, E17

KHAN, Waheed, Arafat
DOB: 18/05/1981
Address: London, E17

KHATIB, Osman, Adam
DOB: 07/12/1986
Address: London, E17

PATEL, Abdul, Muneem
DOB: 17/04/1989
Address: London, E5

RAUF, Tayib
DOB: 26/04/1984
Address: Birmingham

SADDIQUE, Muhammed, Usman
DOB: 23/04/1982
Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

SARWAR, Assad
DOB: 24/05/1980
Address: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

SAVANT, Ibrahim
DOB: 19/12/1980
Address: London, E17

TARIQ, Amin, Asmin
DOB: 07/06/1983
Address: Walthamstow, London, E17

UDDIN, Shamin, Mohammed
DOB: 22/11/1970
Address: Stoke Newington, London

ZAMAN, Waheed
DOB: 27/05/1984
Address: London, E17

Seemingly they'll do anything to try and win the fourth test, the b**gers.

[ajamieson]

Originally Posted by brownstar

so you can go through security ,buy duty free booze, electronic goods in duty free and then get on a flight from the uk airports taking these items into the cabin.
i have read through the government guidance and don't see any wording to prevent this. The gov't statement refers only to hand baggage going through security, not duty free goods purchased airside.
Perhaps an extra five minutes thought by ministers may have cleared up this confussion - can anyone shed any light on the above statement. Please!!

Yes, I checked this with the DfT yesterday. Your understanding is correct.

You're allowed to take almost nothing through security apart from yourself and a very small list of essential items. If you're not going to the US, you can then go mad with the credit card airside and buy anything you like. If you are going to the US, you can still go on a spending spree but you'll have liquids taken off you at the gate and you'll undergo a very long secondary security search for the rest.

[Liam Gallagher]

Spare a thought

Spies close to the author say a BA crew and its 80 passengers are stuck in the Arrival Hall of LAX as they wait for their hold luggage to scanned [B]INBOUND. Spies say it been over 2 hours and counting.........

Poor blighters.....

[GearDown&Locked]

So pax and crew can only board half-naked, no bottles, cases, laptops, blah blah blah ad nauseam...

I just have a little question: Is the catering being screened as hard as everything else?

[Kirstey]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....ror_alert.html

Any thoughts on this? Certainly fulfils the thread criteria of "affecting aircrew"

[Rwy in Sight]

I wonder how many crews run out of hours yesterday and even more important they reach the a/c tired and frustrated (unfit to fly) because of the frustration due to the controls.


Rwy in Sight

[SpringbokDreamer]

AAaaarrrgrhhhhhhhh!

The big problem for me is the injustice of it all.. yes I realise these BAS DS need stopping and probably stringing up... By the Balls! But how can one set of crew have their food confiscated along with having to leave their phones laptops PDA's in the crew room (If they're lucky enough to be at their home base) and another set of crew who work for the same Airline operating from another base, be able to take on their food and phones?
If we wanted to put the People in danger surely we don't need some Sloppy S t in a bottle. We've got the A/P disengage button and hey bloody presto!!!
COME ON PEOPLE be sensible don't put the PAX in any more danger give us a break (KIT KAT!!)

[LLuke]

I guess I must be one of the few, but I always travelled with no handluggage. Just my wallet, phone, sunglasses and a pen. All the rest; CLA, housekeys, laptop, etc, travel below in my suitcase. Must say that I never noticed too much stuff in my collegues business cases as well apart from an apple, laptop and ussually a magazine (about yachts or cars :-) Only flew sectors of less then 5 hrs though and my company does carry newspapers.

[Stallspincrashburn]

Dear Sir,

I was planning to travel from Manchester, UK, to Chicago on Tuesday. I was planning on taking about 60,000 litres of liquid explosive with me. However, as I can't be trusted with a tube of toothpaste I very much doubt that I'll be allowed to carry Jet A1.

I suppose that we could always swim the Atlantic instead!

[eidah]

Had most things taken away from me yesterday at the security point, calculator, cigarettes,aftershave, toothpaste, drinks etc etc was told I could come back at the end of the day and pick them up yeah right u expect me to find my stuff amongst every other airliners workers stuff by 12.00 yesterday there was so much stuff there to top it all I could buy everything I had given to the security point in the shop airside which had probably gone through the same check point beforehand

[sugden]

Originally Posted by Capt H Peacock

I cannot accept that the public screening of flight crew for the gratification or amusement of the passengers

You think that's why they're doing it? Deflate your ego and think coherently.

This is OTT for crew (not witnessed it first hand yet, but not looking forward to it). No question. It should be stopped.

But without wishing to disagree with Danny, what happens to pax matters to us longer term. Make it too hard for them to fly and they won't. I dunno the answer, but how many airline bookings were taken yesterday and so far today? Same as normal, or less. I'll bet less, coz people are saying "there's no way I want to go through that."

And if they don't fly, we don't fly.

There is clearly a threat and we need to confront it and deal with it. When i go to work I don't want to think that I am ferrying my killer to his and my mutual death.

But we have to get the response right. Given the lunacy of the terrorits, where does the excessive screening stop. Not the pilot, ok? Us reasonable people want that. But what if his enthic back-ground is Pakistani? Maybe we carry on screening him. Except that might be racist. Or whatever else. A pre-conception founded on simplistic views of the problem, which is what got us into this in the first place (a little bit of politics...)

And the cabin crew? Shall we exempt them? No, they're possibly nutters who want to blow the plane up. But the pilots def ain't. So the cabin crew get super screening, the pilots don't. That'll go down like a bucket of cold sick. Just coz they're in the cabin doesn't make them nutters, so why are they still subject to the heavy duty stuff?

Sorry, one rule for flight crew and one for the rest don't wash. We all need to go through security that is fit for purpose, no exceptions. That includes us because among our number will be one nutter.

The key thing is "fit for purpose". The chaos we currently see is not fit for purpose, not for us, not for pax, not for the UK based aviation industry. And that bothers me from a hassle perspective, a stress perspective and a job security perspective.

Enough of the hyperbolic over-reaction. I mean, our airport security was not even breached. be calm, take a deep breath, let's see what we really think we need to do.

BTW LD Max, good points, all well made. Would you be transport Sec please.

[lexxity]

Kirstey that story is the pits.

On standby, is flight deck for a partner airline, was taken off the plane for being Muslim. Now there is your prime example of over reaction.

[Carnage Matey!]

Originally Posted by Sugden

And the cabin crew? Shall we exempt them? No, they're possibly nutters who want to blow the plane up. But the pilots def ain't. So the cabin crew get super screening, the pilots don't.

Last time I checked the cabin crew didn't have the capability to fly the plane into a target of their choosing. I do. Whether I've got my electronic key fob with me or not.

[carousel]

They didn't listen

Originally Posted by EGLD

Mr Reid was screened for travel on two flights by profiler's, on both occasions he was removed from the flight. Unfortunatly the second time the airline GSC overuled the profiling company and allowed him to fly.

[Bob Mckenzie]

Crew Issues (let's try and stay on topic here)

Yes, the Pilots should be given special consideration. As it has been pointed out in previous posts, we have control of the aircraft that contains thousands of liters of a volatile liquid.

No beverages. That's fine, as long as I can be supplied with bottled water on board. The food issue is different. I have food allergies and have therefore always self catered. I have a Pilot friend that is hypo-glycemic and has a very specialized diet that also requires him to self cater (before the non-pilot community asks, I'll state that he is allowed to be a Professional Pilot with this condition with the restriction on his License that he is only permitted to operate as part of a two person crew, i.e. no single Pilot).

Policemen walk through security with their Automatic weapons. This is allowed because they have a uniform and ID. The security people do not know them. Why should it be different for Pilots? It would be much harder to impersonate a Pilot to the point where you have control of the aircraft in flight than it would be to impersonate a Police officer.

This is madness!
BM

( I think the forum is running out of this particular smile)

[Capt.Slackbladder]

Havn't we seen this all before with the inconsistancy and interpretation of the new rules by different UK Airports when applied to Flight Deck and Cabin Crew? I gather at certain airports I can take my flight bag and my mobile through with me but can't at others. Today I am already hearing in our crew rooms of total nonsence.
Example 1 - empty positioning flight, both pilots nightstopping on arrival. Told that their nav bags and holdalls had to go in hold! Bags duly delivered to a/c but because it being a positioner on a remote stand the holds are not open and there is no conveyer belt or loaders, so....where do the bags go???? - in the flight deck of course where they should be! (and before anybody asks the holds are security checked by our engineers!)

Example 2:- two of our a/c parked alongside each other at certain UK airport.
One has locally based crew with all their stuff in plastic bags the other has just arrived on a 'W' pattern. Both crews de-plane at same time and walk through terminal together one with plastic bags the other with their usual kit!
Now what does that tell the passengers?

Example 3: Gather there was an interesting discussion at one crew security point when a Thomson Capt was allowed to take his Laptop through with him because they are Co. issued and used for essential duties like Perf. and loading but following was one of our crews who wasn't allowed to take his because it wasn't Co. issued - but how would security know?

I sincerely hope that the industries CEO's and Ops Directors, in their meeting with the Govt today, have tried to get some common sense on the agenda.

[Yallah]

Tail wagging the dog

Er - ground staff (ie security with their qualifications) telling the Captain of an aircraft what he needs to do his job. Hey guys get a life. I am sure the ANO lays down what is required by law in the cockpit. Apart from that if you the crew wanted to do some serious injury I seem to remember (they made a film about this unless that is outlawed now) that pointing the nose at the ground and trying to break the sound barrier makes a big hole.

In view of the present threat it would appear that the flight deck should not be allowed on the aircraft. The plane does not fly and everyone is safe. That is until a catering truck runs into it.