Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
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Originally Posted by The Otter's Pocket
Why take beverages off the shelves?
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With reference to the new airline security measures imposed at all major airports, I am writing to offer my opinion, for what it's worth. 
All that is required to counter the threat of liquid explosives carried in bottles - is a marginal adjustment to the inspection procedures for hand luggage. I can see absolutely no need to prevent the carriage of all hand-luggage on commercial flights, and to do so is a major inconvenience and disincentive to travel. They permit baby milk if the accompanying adult can take a swig of it, so why not a bottle of water or coke? It's utterly ridiculous!
I will be going to the US next month and my laptop is NOT going in the hold for some baggage handler to either steal or break. Unless the restrictions are lifted by then, I will have no option but to leave it at home. This is entirely unreasonable and I am amazed to witness such an apparently unintelligent overreaction to such a well-defined threat - especially as this threat was already identified and succesfully averted.
I'm sorry to sound so abrupt, but I never cease to be frustrated by the almost carefree way the aviation industry is made to jump through hoops - which by and large are entirely unnecessary. I appreciate this was a major terrorist plot which the police uncovered, but the DoT's response to it has the hallmarks of a Knee-Jerk reaction.
While many, if not most, of the travelling general public will accept enhanced security measures to almost any degree in the name of "safety", it is also true that most of the general public are easily "spooked" by events surrounding air travel. That's no reason for the government to think that gives them the green light to cause such crippling disruption on a whim.
I think a lot of it is "posturing" and PR.
"Look how clever we are to stop terrorists".
"See how powerful we are to close airports and stop you carrying on board luggage"
"See how important we are to have such authority"
Makes me SICK.
All that is required to counter the threat of liquid explosives carried in bottles - is a marginal adjustment to the inspection procedures for hand luggage. I can see absolutely no need to prevent the carriage of all hand-luggage on commercial flights, and to do so is a major inconvenience and disincentive to travel. They permit baby milk if the accompanying adult can take a swig of it, so why not a bottle of water or coke? It's utterly ridiculous!
I will be going to the US next month and my laptop is NOT going in the hold for some baggage handler to either steal or break. Unless the restrictions are lifted by then, I will have no option but to leave it at home. This is entirely unreasonable and I am amazed to witness such an apparently unintelligent overreaction to such a well-defined threat - especially as this threat was already identified and succesfully averted.
I'm sorry to sound so abrupt, but I never cease to be frustrated by the almost carefree way the aviation industry is made to jump through hoops - which by and large are entirely unnecessary. I appreciate this was a major terrorist plot which the police uncovered, but the DoT's response to it has the hallmarks of a Knee-Jerk reaction.
While many, if not most, of the travelling general public will accept enhanced security measures to almost any degree in the name of "safety", it is also true that most of the general public are easily "spooked" by events surrounding air travel. That's no reason for the government to think that gives them the green light to cause such crippling disruption on a whim.
I think a lot of it is "posturing" and PR.
"Look how clever we are to stop terrorists".
"See how powerful we are to close airports and stop you carrying on board luggage"
"See how important we are to have such authority"
Makes me SICK.
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Well the no hand luggage is a fabulous idea - once people get the message security will speed up significantly and not only that loading of planes will be much quicker too - no more waiting while people try to squeeze blatantly oversized bags into the overhead lockers.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some. And if your laptop is so precious perhaps you should leave it at home... i've travelled every week with mine shoved in the middle of my suitcase no problem.
Frankly its quite unbelievable that people are complaining about these measures - the threat may not yet have been fully averted hence why you should be happy these measures are in place.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some. And if your laptop is so precious perhaps you should leave it at home... i've travelled every week with mine shoved in the middle of my suitcase no problem.
Frankly its quite unbelievable that people are complaining about these measures - the threat may not yet have been fully averted hence why you should be happy these measures are in place.
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I have just travelled today having compulsarily checked in my nav bags . Going though security I was picked up with a bag of Fishermans friends containing about six sweets. These were confiscated as a potential hazard despite that I was prepared to eat one.Hving gone through security and into the duty free lounge I was actively encouraged to buy glass bottles of spirits.
Which meant that I could have easily bought two glass bottles of say vodka, taken them on board, smashed them, set the liquid alight and used the broken glass as a weapon.However my blunt ended scissors were considered far more dangerous and confiscated from me.
No doubt Tony Blair will be rubbing his hands saying I told you so.All leaders of countries know that a way of controlling the masses is by having some external threat which allegedly they are dealing with.That's why the US having lost Russia have had to provoke another enemy/threat i.e. Al-Quaeda. It helps to keep the masses under control.
When Thatcher's ratings were at an all time low, causing the Falklands war put her back at the top of the ratings.
Our so called "Intellegence organisation" seem consistently to get things incredibly wrong. I hope this is not another "menendes" ( forgive spelling).
Or am I being cynical and thinking this is another way tony blair and his government are trying to justify their stance on the middle east and Iraq/Afghanistan?
The result is a hell of a lot of people are not going to fly anymore which I suppose will help the governments green house gas emissions.
Which meant that I could have easily bought two glass bottles of say vodka, taken them on board, smashed them, set the liquid alight and used the broken glass as a weapon.However my blunt ended scissors were considered far more dangerous and confiscated from me.
No doubt Tony Blair will be rubbing his hands saying I told you so.All leaders of countries know that a way of controlling the masses is by having some external threat which allegedly they are dealing with.That's why the US having lost Russia have had to provoke another enemy/threat i.e. Al-Quaeda. It helps to keep the masses under control.
When Thatcher's ratings were at an all time low, causing the Falklands war put her back at the top of the ratings.
Our so called "Intellegence organisation" seem consistently to get things incredibly wrong. I hope this is not another "menendes" ( forgive spelling).
Or am I being cynical and thinking this is another way tony blair and his government are trying to justify their stance on the middle east and Iraq/Afghanistan?
The result is a hell of a lot of people are not going to fly anymore which I suppose will help the governments green house gas emissions.
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I used to get stopped on a regular basis in the late 80's early 90's when travelling with a colleague who was from Northern Island. Never bothered us we both understood why we were stopped, he was from NI and I was travelling with him. Few questions and then we were on our way.
That was GCI to LGW or reverse, or if we had been on a course in City of London that finished on a Saturday afternoon (when hardly anyone else was about in that part of London) and leaving to head back to LGW and we were walking down street with big bags (full of two weeks washing!) on way to train station no probs if police stopped us and took an interest because of my mates accent.
Never bothered us, we both understood that the IRA were planting bombs in London so no problem helping police protect public (including us). Not so sure they enjoyed looking through our smelly washing!
Anything that the security services can do to make life safer is fine by me.
That was GCI to LGW or reverse, or if we had been on a course in City of London that finished on a Saturday afternoon (when hardly anyone else was about in that part of London) and leaving to head back to LGW and we were walking down street with big bags (full of two weeks washing!) on way to train station no probs if police stopped us and took an interest because of my mates accent.
Never bothered us, we both understood that the IRA were planting bombs in London so no problem helping police protect public (including us). Not so sure they enjoyed looking through our smelly washing!
Anything that the security services can do to make life safer is fine by me.
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Originally Posted by Guern
Never bothered us, we both understood that the IRA were planting bombs in London so no problem helping police protect public (including us). Not so sure they enjoyed looking through our smelly washing!
Anything that the security services can do to make life safer is fine by me.
Anything that the security services can do to make life safer is fine by me.
This is just madness.
Too mean to buy a long personal title
Originally Posted by SaturnV
Not so easy to profile. Khalid Muhammed, the mastermind of 9/11, planned on using Asians for his second round of hijackings. He anticipated that the U.S. would be rigorously screening Arabs, and paying less attention to Orientals.
The Chechens are/were fond of using females as terrorists and bombers: it was two rather young females who blew up the two airliners several years ago; nearly half the 41 terrorists in the Moscow theatre gassing were female; almost all the street suicide-bombings in Moscow, including the rock concert, were female bombers.
Palestinians have disguised themselves as Hasidic Jews and blown themselves up.
And Richard Reid was half English, half Jamaican.
The Chechens are/were fond of using females as terrorists and bombers: it was two rather young females who blew up the two airliners several years ago; nearly half the 41 terrorists in the Moscow theatre gassing were female; almost all the street suicide-bombings in Moscow, including the rock concert, were female bombers.
Palestinians have disguised themselves as Hasidic Jews and blown themselves up.
And Richard Reid was half English, half Jamaican.
I'll be corrected if I've got any of this wrong. But IIRC, he was clean as a whistle. All the profiling in the world would not have found that which he did not have. His pregnant Irish girlfriend, on another flight, was obviously low risk. She got through standard airport security. But she was unwittingly carrying the bomb that he'd made, and was only picked up by LY who caught that at the gate.
Fat lot of use profiling would have been in that case.
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Originally Posted by LD Max
Not the same thing is it... I don't mind queueing, body searched, sniffed, scanned or x-rayed. But proportionate measures please!
This is just madness.
This is just madness.
Surely anything that makes the world safer is good for everyone? Yes it is inconvenient but that is better that being killed surely?
I could have objected to being checked just because I happened to be travelling with someone from NI when I was travelling back home to my little rock where I was born but why should I if I had nothing to hide?
As I understand it today we will be having the same restrictions on inter Channel Islands Flights on Tri-landers do we moan no we don't! Hardly think that there is a high chance of terrorists on inter CI flights in a BN Tri but if it is required we do the same then fine.
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Presumably for any pax with some flexibility this is the end of long haul travel from UK airports. I suppose if at all possible all pax will suffer a short flight to BRU, AMS or CDG and then do the long haul with another carrier with all the usual carry-on stuff?
What do you think?
What do you think?
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
And it seems that the pro-profilers have all forgotten one Mr Hindawi, who was supposed to be flying to Tel Aviv from Heathrow.
I'll be corrected if I've got any of this wrong. But IIRC, he was clean as a whistle. All the profiling in the world would not have found that which he did not have. His pregnant Irish girlfriend, on another flight, was obviously low risk. She got through standard airport security. But she was unwittingly carrying the bomb that he'd made, and was only picked up by LY who caught that at the gate.
Fat lot of use profiling would have been in that case.
I'll be corrected if I've got any of this wrong. But IIRC, he was clean as a whistle. All the profiling in the world would not have found that which he did not have. His pregnant Irish girlfriend, on another flight, was obviously low risk. She got through standard airport security. But she was unwittingly carrying the bomb that he'd made, and was only picked up by LY who caught that at the gate.
Fat lot of use profiling would have been in that case.
Well done MI5 for having foiled this attack, but I sure hope these increased security measures will be removed soon, and not become semi-permanent. Our jobs are hard enough without having to put up with the over zealousness of some security officers at certain uk airports. Fed up of being treated like a potential terrorist, especially after having to jump through the hoops for my airside pass application/renewal.
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I work as security at LTN and when u see a bottle on the xray machine come thrw u cannot tell whether its water, coke or something else so i agree with these measures and long may they continue, hang luggage should be one little bag ot loads of big bags
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Originally Posted by DISCOKID
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some.
The question is, is it possible for the terrorist to drink all bomb ingredients and stay alive? Maybe drinking from the bottle is not enough to ensure it is safe.
And if your laptop is so precious perhaps you should leave it at home... i've travelled every week with mine shoved in the middle of my suitcase no problem.
I think there is not much else the authorities could do today with the exact nature of the threat unknown and some terrorists reportedly still at large (apart from halting all air traffic altoghether), but I hope they will come with a less intrusive solution very soon.
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ok extra security for pax, i was subject to this today.Although for some reason more procedures for departing uk than inbound.
What I dont understand is just what is the point of security passes.Recently had disclosure scotland for pass renewal.If this is of any use whatsoever why are the crew subject to the same procedures as pax.Witnessed today the crew carrying essential items only in clear plastic bags.No food,(i refuse to have the choice of 2 different flavoured sandwiches carried by my company for the rest of my career) consficated by security ( ark royal totallly agree) captain only mobile, no keys with immobiliser thingy, all crew left bags unsecured in crew room ( will insurance cough up with car nicked)?Crew searched shoes removed etc.As someone said to me today they wouldnt need anything special, they have control of the aircraft.
Please do not take this to mean that crew should not be subject to security, they should.I just question whether the disclosure scotland actually achieved anything.If the pass means anything at all then the same security checks should not be required, if it doesnt then up the security disclosure, maybe in the uk we should have been trialing iris scans, fingerprints etc for passes rather than passports.
If it carries on like this perhaps we should just carry passports rather than passes and carry on being subject to the same scrutiny as pax rather than professioinal aircrew.
Purely for discussion who decides that armed marshalls are ok on our aircraft and armed police airside and why cant as professionals we have the same investigation into our characters as they presumably have with the same curtesy extended to us just trying to do our jobs.
Head down and waiting to be shot down!
What I dont understand is just what is the point of security passes.Recently had disclosure scotland for pass renewal.If this is of any use whatsoever why are the crew subject to the same procedures as pax.Witnessed today the crew carrying essential items only in clear plastic bags.No food,(i refuse to have the choice of 2 different flavoured sandwiches carried by my company for the rest of my career) consficated by security ( ark royal totallly agree) captain only mobile, no keys with immobiliser thingy, all crew left bags unsecured in crew room ( will insurance cough up with car nicked)?Crew searched shoes removed etc.As someone said to me today they wouldnt need anything special, they have control of the aircraft.
Please do not take this to mean that crew should not be subject to security, they should.I just question whether the disclosure scotland actually achieved anything.If the pass means anything at all then the same security checks should not be required, if it doesnt then up the security disclosure, maybe in the uk we should have been trialing iris scans, fingerprints etc for passes rather than passports.
If it carries on like this perhaps we should just carry passports rather than passes and carry on being subject to the same scrutiny as pax rather than professioinal aircrew.
Purely for discussion who decides that armed marshalls are ok on our aircraft and armed police airside and why cant as professionals we have the same investigation into our characters as they presumably have with the same curtesy extended to us just trying to do our jobs.
Head down and waiting to be shot down!
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Originally Posted by andyafc
I work as security at LTN and when u see a bottle on the xray machine come thrw u cannot tell whether its water, coke or something else so i agree with these measures and long may they continue, hang luggage should be one little bag ot loads of big bags
Until then, I routinely (until now at least) travel with my valuables (laptop, camera kit etc.) toothbrush and a change of underwear in handbaggage. Never mind the replacement costs of these things, underwear aside there's also a lot of irreplacable information there.
To the man who checks in his laptop - you obviously don't *NEED* to take it with you.
Personally I think 'they' have already won - by demostrating repeatedly that they can bring the functioning of half the country to it's knees on a whim.. who needs body count when you can do that?
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Don't buy the lies. It's all about timing. This has been timed to coincide with the anoucement that they want to increase spending on arms. As well as the losing freedoms to protect our freedoms doublespeak speach by John Reid. You do not protect liberty by imposing restrictions on freedoms, you just demonstrate a sympton of a fascist tyranical dictatorship.
Mix it all up with some FEAR inducing reports on the TV to coincide with rush hour traffic. Hopefully this psychological manipulation operation will backfire and it will awaken more people to the false left right political paradigm that exists to control, contain, exploit and oppress humanity.
If people want to see a good expose of the lies and false flag operations carried out by governments against their own populations then do a search for terrorstorm by alex jones on googlevideo. Another good source is Michael Tsarion who has a very good presentation on google video at the moment.
He links many different disciplines together, in a coherrent concise articulate delivery of the history and reasons behind what is taking place in the current era. The presentation is called
Live in LA (2012-The future of Mankind)
and can be found on video.google.com
Mix it all up with some FEAR inducing reports on the TV to coincide with rush hour traffic. Hopefully this psychological manipulation operation will backfire and it will awaken more people to the false left right political paradigm that exists to control, contain, exploit and oppress humanity.
If people want to see a good expose of the lies and false flag operations carried out by governments against their own populations then do a search for terrorstorm by alex jones on googlevideo. Another good source is Michael Tsarion who has a very good presentation on google video at the moment.
He links many different disciplines together, in a coherrent concise articulate delivery of the history and reasons behind what is taking place in the current era. The presentation is called
Live in LA (2012-The future of Mankind)
and can be found on video.google.com
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Once again, I reiterate... this thread is about how this all affects us as aircrew. We already know about the effects on passengers and there is no need to discuss that on this thread. If you do then you will be wasting your time as the posts will be deleted and/or moved to similar threads that do relate the effect on pax.
The one argument I would like to see discussed further is that of how this is affecting flight crew. We have already heard about pilots having to take only essentials in a clear plastic bag. For some of us, we have to take our hold baggage with us to the a/c and security screeners at the crew control checkpoints are forbidding anything going through that could, in theory, be transferred from the hold baggage to our 'plastic bags' after passing through screening. That means that those of us who fly long haul will not be allowed to take anything such as shampoo, toothpaste, deodorants etc. We will not be allowed to take our car keys if they have electronic fobs. The obvious anomaly in all this is that once we have left all those things behind we are then given control of a multi million dollar potential weapon of mass destruction and trusted to keep it secure and operate it safely.
Now, I have long advocated for intelligent profiling. Note, I did not say racial profiling or any of the other misquoted types of 'profiling' that some posters seem unable to figure out. Intelligent profiling is not cheap and is labour intensive as the training is difficult and does not allow for the lowest common denominator factor of the MacDonalds type of recruitment to fill the ranks. What intelligent profilers are able to do is use not only psychological profiling but also intelligent (as in intelligence services)profiling. Whilst some PC lobbyists will cry foul the important thing to remember is that this type of profiling, when carried out by highly trained profilers with the proper kind of intelligence back-up, is very successful.
In the past we have heard the usual arguments that it would not work anywhere as busy as the UK or the USA and is only successful in places such as Israel with El Al because it would cause too much chaos and cost too much. Well, having landed in LHR yesterday morning as the current crisis was unfolding and then trying to get a flight up to MAN to get home, I only had to look around to see how expensive the current method of attacking the problem is and the chaos that that causes.
So, getting back to the problem that I see with screening us as pilots when we are trying to get to our a/c, we have a serious problem and many of us are not too happy with the current policy of applying flawed logic and just banning us from taking basic essentials with us on board for use down route. We have all been screened for security reasons and are trusted with multi million doallr pieces of equipment and hundreds of pax lives every time we go to work. If the agencies that oversee security cannot figure out a system, especially where we have our own security screening, to allow us to carry what we need without subjecting us to ridiculous rules that defeat all logic then we have a serious problem. If we carry armed sky marshals, are they subjected to the same ridiculous screening? Why not have a profiler deal with the crew instead of leaving it to a blanket ban on things such as nail clippers and bottles of shampoo.
Either we are security cleared and trusted or we are not. We are expected to operate safely and have a lot of responsibility. It would appear that the authorities are incapable of sorting this anomaly out which tells us a lot about their real capabilities. That is not to detract from the services that were involved with the background operations to prevent the current situation from materialising. However, observing the current knee-jerk reactions leaves little faith in those that decide on how to handle the crew who have to operate under these conditions.
The one argument I would like to see discussed further is that of how this is affecting flight crew. We have already heard about pilots having to take only essentials in a clear plastic bag. For some of us, we have to take our hold baggage with us to the a/c and security screeners at the crew control checkpoints are forbidding anything going through that could, in theory, be transferred from the hold baggage to our 'plastic bags' after passing through screening. That means that those of us who fly long haul will not be allowed to take anything such as shampoo, toothpaste, deodorants etc. We will not be allowed to take our car keys if they have electronic fobs. The obvious anomaly in all this is that once we have left all those things behind we are then given control of a multi million dollar potential weapon of mass destruction and trusted to keep it secure and operate it safely.
Now, I have long advocated for intelligent profiling. Note, I did not say racial profiling or any of the other misquoted types of 'profiling' that some posters seem unable to figure out. Intelligent profiling is not cheap and is labour intensive as the training is difficult and does not allow for the lowest common denominator factor of the MacDonalds type of recruitment to fill the ranks. What intelligent profilers are able to do is use not only psychological profiling but also intelligent (as in intelligence services)profiling. Whilst some PC lobbyists will cry foul the important thing to remember is that this type of profiling, when carried out by highly trained profilers with the proper kind of intelligence back-up, is very successful.
In the past we have heard the usual arguments that it would not work anywhere as busy as the UK or the USA and is only successful in places such as Israel with El Al because it would cause too much chaos and cost too much. Well, having landed in LHR yesterday morning as the current crisis was unfolding and then trying to get a flight up to MAN to get home, I only had to look around to see how expensive the current method of attacking the problem is and the chaos that that causes.
So, getting back to the problem that I see with screening us as pilots when we are trying to get to our a/c, we have a serious problem and many of us are not too happy with the current policy of applying flawed logic and just banning us from taking basic essentials with us on board for use down route. We have all been screened for security reasons and are trusted with multi million doallr pieces of equipment and hundreds of pax lives every time we go to work. If the agencies that oversee security cannot figure out a system, especially where we have our own security screening, to allow us to carry what we need without subjecting us to ridiculous rules that defeat all logic then we have a serious problem. If we carry armed sky marshals, are they subjected to the same ridiculous screening? Why not have a profiler deal with the crew instead of leaving it to a blanket ban on things such as nail clippers and bottles of shampoo.
Either we are security cleared and trusted or we are not. We are expected to operate safely and have a lot of responsibility. It would appear that the authorities are incapable of sorting this anomaly out which tells us a lot about their real capabilities. That is not to detract from the services that were involved with the background operations to prevent the current situation from materialising. However, observing the current knee-jerk reactions leaves little faith in those that decide on how to handle the crew who have to operate under these conditions.
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Danny, perhaps we need to wait a little and see if these additional restrictions do get lifted when Britain comes off "Critical" alert. But if not - if they remain in force - what about some form of petition initiated through this website? To attempt to achieve separate screening of crew. To allow carry-on luggage by crew (I know that here in Aus the domestic network will grind to a halt if crew are required to recheck bags prior to EACH of 4 to 5 sectors per day!). To push for a global system of reconciling the names/faces of a flight's authorised crew with the personnel that are attempting to enter EACH particular airframe.
Such a petition could comprise of hundreds, hopefully thousands, of professional airline pilots from around the world. You have a lot of them reading here each day.
My company is pushing us to go electronic manuals. All my notes are on my laptop and my PDA. No paper manuals anymore! What about torches for walk-arounds? Hearing protection? The yellow-"don't hit me"-jacket? The TWO pairs of glasses? Pens? Wizz-wheels? Calculators? All needed. Sun-cream: yes, many of us use it to prevent an early cancer death. A sandwich on the 10 hour days when the company provides us jack s..t in the way of food... Carry on bottles of any sort by crew are already banned at Qantas because management think we'll use them to steal company stores. It's a sackable offence......
This cannot be allowed to take hold for long in one part of the world or else the rest will surely follow. A global effort by pilots may well be needed. Frankly it's high time we collectively stood up and said "enough".
Just planting the idea for now.......
Such a petition could comprise of hundreds, hopefully thousands, of professional airline pilots from around the world. You have a lot of them reading here each day.
My company is pushing us to go electronic manuals. All my notes are on my laptop and my PDA. No paper manuals anymore! What about torches for walk-arounds? Hearing protection? The yellow-"don't hit me"-jacket? The TWO pairs of glasses? Pens? Wizz-wheels? Calculators? All needed. Sun-cream: yes, many of us use it to prevent an early cancer death. A sandwich on the 10 hour days when the company provides us jack s..t in the way of food... Carry on bottles of any sort by crew are already banned at Qantas because management think we'll use them to steal company stores. It's a sackable offence......
This cannot be allowed to take hold for long in one part of the world or else the rest will surely follow. A global effort by pilots may well be needed. Frankly it's high time we collectively stood up and said "enough".
Just planting the idea for now.......
Last edited by Ron & Edna Johns; 11th Aug 2006 at 03:40.
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Right after 9/11 in reaction to the attacks, the rules that came out basically prohibited mechanics from having tools on board the aircraft.
That lasted about a day, when every sane person figured out that tools were required to fix airplanes.
If you are a person who operates with an EFB and they tell you that you may not bring your laptop on board, well, guess what? It'll be a very short trip.
So, cool your jets, I am sure that someone, somewhere, will realize the flaw in the initial policy and let up.
What everyone needs to remember is that while the image we all have of ourselves is that we are who we are and naturally deserve full and unrestricted access to our aircraft, the security staff have no clue as to who we are.
They have never met us, don't know us and don't want to know us. Anyone can buy a uniform and present themselves as someone that they are not. The only way the security people can be, well, safe in their position , is to treat everyone as suspect. That's pretty freaking creepy, but I can assure you that the people that would do us harm would exploit any opportunity to slip through, including donning a uniform with fake/stolen ID.
We're rolling up to 9/11 plus five now and the number of people who forget/forgot/don't know the event is disturbing. Then we have a section of the population who with immense patience and an urge to kill us normal folk.
That second group, creatures really, are still trying to either kill us or drive us crazy.
The first group would like it all to just go away. It ain't going away. I just wish we could harness the collective energy spent complaining about the security measures caused by group number 2 and direct it at them instead of ourselves, our countries and our governments.
Lay the blame and anger where it belongs.
PB
That lasted about a day, when every sane person figured out that tools were required to fix airplanes.
If you are a person who operates with an EFB and they tell you that you may not bring your laptop on board, well, guess what? It'll be a very short trip.
So, cool your jets, I am sure that someone, somewhere, will realize the flaw in the initial policy and let up.
What everyone needs to remember is that while the image we all have of ourselves is that we are who we are and naturally deserve full and unrestricted access to our aircraft, the security staff have no clue as to who we are.
They have never met us, don't know us and don't want to know us. Anyone can buy a uniform and present themselves as someone that they are not. The only way the security people can be, well, safe in their position , is to treat everyone as suspect. That's pretty freaking creepy, but I can assure you that the people that would do us harm would exploit any opportunity to slip through, including donning a uniform with fake/stolen ID.
We're rolling up to 9/11 plus five now and the number of people who forget/forgot/don't know the event is disturbing. Then we have a section of the population who with immense patience and an urge to kill us normal folk.
That second group, creatures really, are still trying to either kill us or drive us crazy.
The first group would like it all to just go away. It ain't going away. I just wish we could harness the collective energy spent complaining about the security measures caused by group number 2 and direct it at them instead of ourselves, our countries and our governments.
Lay the blame and anger where it belongs.
PB
Psychophysiological entity
Danny's last post echoed an impassioned post that I put forward years ago. Treating aircrew like criminals and fools is unacceptable. In the last twenty years, I have heard every kind of banal argument put forward for reducing us to the lowest common denominator. It has become little more than ‘us and them' sparring. With the crew's hands bound by some sort of subservient interpretation of professionalism. This has got to stop. Aircrew should be vetted to the n'th degree, yes...and then given the security status that is commensurate with the job.
The public are bewildered and confused at the treatment of the people that are about to take responsibility for their lives. It sends out all sorts of mixed messages...and I ask you to think about that issue for a moment.
Leading up to this last crisis, it sounds as though a lot of good work has been going on in the background. Congratulations to the police and other security agencies world-wide. However, I have just left a room full of people that have to travel quite frequently. They represented a small sample of the mainstay of business travelers in the US. The thing that phased them more than anything, came as a surprise to me.
It was not the lap-top or the phone, that was bad enough, but simply drinking water. Ordinary sip when you please, water.
They were not athletes, but academics and many were seasoned travelers. They were very aware of the importance of staying hydrated, some having spent all too long in the past, cooking on one of those interminable taxi periods, with cabin crew unable to leave their seats. ‘If there is no water, I'm not going.' one of them said.
This problem has to be addressed immediately. We need their custom.
At very little cost, folk who have just discarded their bottles of fluids, could be given security cleared water on entry to the cabin. Hopefully it will be a temporary measure and in any event, not too costly.
It seems that the enemy is very aware of testing our own fluid procedures, and have devised bottles to contain carefully colored-matched substances under a level of drinking fluid. A thin tube allows one substance to pass another. Yes, the only quick way is to scrap the lot...but there has to be a replacement.
The hundreds of medium haul pax rely on NOT checking in any bags–simply to make the unreal connection times. Many will be hit with another day added to their week just on this inconvenience alone.
The public are bewildered and confused at the treatment of the people that are about to take responsibility for their lives. It sends out all sorts of mixed messages...and I ask you to think about that issue for a moment.
Leading up to this last crisis, it sounds as though a lot of good work has been going on in the background. Congratulations to the police and other security agencies world-wide. However, I have just left a room full of people that have to travel quite frequently. They represented a small sample of the mainstay of business travelers in the US. The thing that phased them more than anything, came as a surprise to me.
It was not the lap-top or the phone, that was bad enough, but simply drinking water. Ordinary sip when you please, water.
They were not athletes, but academics and many were seasoned travelers. They were very aware of the importance of staying hydrated, some having spent all too long in the past, cooking on one of those interminable taxi periods, with cabin crew unable to leave their seats. ‘If there is no water, I'm not going.' one of them said.
This problem has to be addressed immediately. We need their custom.
At very little cost, folk who have just discarded their bottles of fluids, could be given security cleared water on entry to the cabin. Hopefully it will be a temporary measure and in any event, not too costly.
It seems that the enemy is very aware of testing our own fluid procedures, and have devised bottles to contain carefully colored-matched substances under a level of drinking fluid. A thin tube allows one substance to pass another. Yes, the only quick way is to scrap the lot...but there has to be a replacement.
The hundreds of medium haul pax rely on NOT checking in any bags–simply to make the unreal connection times. Many will be hit with another day added to their week just on this inconvenience alone.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Whilst I completely understand the unacceptable frustration caused to passengers, the impact on crews has now reached a level where the stress of meaningless security and extra delays is in danger of affecting the safety of the operation.
I cannot accept that the public screening of flight crew for the gratification or amusement of the passengers justifies the disruption to the safety critical path of departure, turnaround, and rest. Try doing it four times a day.
I would like to see dedicated use of staff security searches out of the public gaze. Our personal credentials are checked more often than almost any other individuals. Surely there must be some acceptance that we are already vetted?
Security should be a partnership between the authorities and the operating crews. There should be mutual trust, there increasingly isn't.
I cannot accept that the public screening of flight crew for the gratification or amusement of the passengers justifies the disruption to the safety critical path of departure, turnaround, and rest. Try doing it four times a day.
I would like to see dedicated use of staff security searches out of the public gaze. Our personal credentials are checked more often than almost any other individuals. Surely there must be some acceptance that we are already vetted?
Security should be a partnership between the authorities and the operating crews. There should be mutual trust, there increasingly isn't.