Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff
Putting myself in the mind of these terrorists for a moment (not a pleasant thing to do), let's say that I was determined to cause as much death or damage as possible. I know that the police / MI5, etc. don't want me to do this, and there is always a risk of some of my merry band being picked up.
Let's say this happened, and I didn't happen to get picked up. It's a reasonable bet that sooner or later, through interrogation techniques, sloppy record keeping, tracing phone calls, I'll be tracked down too. So, I have two choices:
(1) Run for the hills and hope nobody follows me, or
(2) Try to resurrect something from the failed plan, and maybe get some result - one or two airliners down instead of 10, for example; or at-least gain martyrdom trying.
In that position, I'd probably go for (2); and in case of this I might well have a backup supply of "here's one we prepared earlier" explosives tucked away.
Whether I'm right or not in this supposition is irrelevant, the point is that I might be right. IMHO, that's the justification for the clampdown and, deeply inconvenient and inevitably OTT as it is, I can't see that the authorities have any choice in the matter but to act as they have.
G
Let's say this happened, and I didn't happen to get picked up. It's a reasonable bet that sooner or later, through interrogation techniques, sloppy record keeping, tracing phone calls, I'll be tracked down too. So, I have two choices:
(1) Run for the hills and hope nobody follows me, or
(2) Try to resurrect something from the failed plan, and maybe get some result - one or two airliners down instead of 10, for example; or at-least gain martyrdom trying.
In that position, I'd probably go for (2); and in case of this I might well have a backup supply of "here's one we prepared earlier" explosives tucked away.
Whether I'm right or not in this supposition is irrelevant, the point is that I might be right. IMHO, that's the justification for the clampdown and, deeply inconvenient and inevitably OTT as it is, I can't see that the authorities have any choice in the matter but to act as they have.
G
JOCKFLYER ~ Flight crew restrictions
I fly regional t/prop out of Glasgow. I've just been told by ops, that we are not allowed flight cases. Only the bare minimum to be taken onto flight deck. No mobiles. So basically your plog, headset, and pens. Don't know about calculator.
This is terrible......where am I going to keep my sandwiches!!!!!
JF
I presume you told them that the flight would be grounded then.
Don't be silly not having your nav bag, unless you are doing a VFR senic.
I spose if I worked for you pathetic company I may have lost my job today, wouldn't be a bad thing though.
I fly regional t/prop out of Glasgow. I've just been told by ops, that we are not allowed flight cases. Only the bare minimum to be taken onto flight deck. No mobiles. So basically your plog, headset, and pens. Don't know about calculator.
This is terrible......where am I going to keep my sandwiches!!!!!
JF
I presume you told them that the flight would be grounded then.
Don't be silly not having your nav bag, unless you are doing a VFR senic.
I spose if I worked for you pathetic company I may have lost my job today, wouldn't be a bad thing though.
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Just arrived home from Heathrow, at 2:45 a Virgin A340-600 and Singapore Airlines 74-4 were parked on the taxiway obviously no stands available so its pretty hectic! Wouldnt advise anyone to go to LHR unless you really cant avoid it!
This is terrible......where am I going to keep my sandwiches!!!!!
and aren't allowed to buy water from the bar?
Whilst on the subject, has FR been charging passengers £10 to put baggage in the hold whan they're not allowed to take on hand baggage?
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Why was "Olympic" airlines mentioned today?virgin radio said that they've cancelled of of their UK flights....
I thought they went into admin months ago?
i feel there is something fishy about the whole thing, like the above poster said, the police agencies have FOILED it, meaning nothing has happened, so the lockdown?
can someone explain!
I thought they went into admin months ago?
i feel there is something fishy about the whole thing, like the above poster said, the police agencies have FOILED it, meaning nothing has happened, so the lockdown?
can someone explain!
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nah, its just MI-5 working its majic once again!
if u watched itv this morning every Q was "so if this did happen, what would the debris field be like?", i mean what the f**k is the point in asking Q's like this?????NOTHING HAPPENED!!
Also, straight away they said blair and bush are meeting shorty to discuss what to do next, are you guys sure we'r not watching a soap, cas it seems perfectly planned out!!
if u watched itv this morning every Q was "so if this did happen, what would the debris field be like?", i mean what the f**k is the point in asking Q's like this?????NOTHING HAPPENED!!
Also, straight away they said blair and bush are meeting shorty to discuss what to do next, are you guys sure we'r not watching a soap, cas it seems perfectly planned out!!
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Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer
Putting myself in the mind of these terrorists for a moment (not a pleasant thing to do), let's say that I was determined to cause as much death or damage as possible. G
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Security observation
Each time the terrorists try a tactic, the specific tactic is blocked by security procedures post hoc. So the terrorists try a new tactic. We then block that.
We had hijackers with pistols, we introduced metal detectors. Then there were hold luggage bombs, so we started screening hold luggage one way and another. Then the hijackers used little knives, so we confiscated nail-clippers. Next we had the shoe-bomber, so now we all have to have our shoes inspected.
And the latest is liquid explosive in bottles, so we ban bottles of water.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm dreading the eventuality of the underwear bomber.
If we ground all commercial flights, they'll attack trains, buses, shopping centres, sports stadia, motorway junctions, churches, synagogues, random crowds of people with truck bombs. And several of these have been committed.
I regret that intelligence-led profiling is now absolutely necessary.
We had hijackers with pistols, we introduced metal detectors. Then there were hold luggage bombs, so we started screening hold luggage one way and another. Then the hijackers used little knives, so we confiscated nail-clippers. Next we had the shoe-bomber, so now we all have to have our shoes inspected.
And the latest is liquid explosive in bottles, so we ban bottles of water.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm dreading the eventuality of the underwear bomber.
If we ground all commercial flights, they'll attack trains, buses, shopping centres, sports stadia, motorway junctions, churches, synagogues, random crowds of people with truck bombs. And several of these have been committed.
I regret that intelligence-led profiling is now absolutely necessary.
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At BHX no personal mobile phones allowed for any staff going airside. Flight crew taking only essential items to the acft in clear plastic bags which are being handed out. All staff having a body search regardless, shoes off and scanned etc...... Only allowing a company or aircraft phone, seems a bit bizarre! LGW have no issue's with mobiles at the mo I understand!
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CWL restrictions today
For staff, that I know of - Bags, Mobiles ( unless company issue to captain ), car keys, food, liquids, cigarettes ( later on in the day ), lighters / matches..... chewing gum?? laptops, radio / mp3 / any electrical device really!!
Been told that solid food can be taken tomorrow!!
So why not watches?? Wasn't one used before?? With a liquid device??Was mentioned earlier, 1995 I think, as a timer??
So we are safe today, due to the extra measures.... Does this mean that we're not safe the rest of the time?? Are these restrictions to become 'the norm'??
One wonders........
Been told that solid food can be taken tomorrow!!
So why not watches?? Wasn't one used before?? With a liquid device??Was mentioned earlier, 1995 I think, as a timer??
So we are safe today, due to the extra measures.... Does this mean that we're not safe the rest of the time?? Are these restrictions to become 'the norm'??
One wonders........
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I cant believe some people think that the effect of the clampdown is as bad as the effect of the event.
Jolt your brain and think for two minutes.
Substantial disruption of UK airports for a few days or 10 wide body aircraft down in one day over major cities with casualty rate probably higher than 9/11.
Its not hard!
Jolt your brain and think for two minutes.
Substantial disruption of UK airports for a few days or 10 wide body aircraft down in one day over major cities with casualty rate probably higher than 9/11.
Its not hard!
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Temporary Restricted Area: northern London!
J3314/06 - AUS 06-08-0467/3002/AS3 TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AREA. OWING TO A POLICE INCIDENT A RESTRICTION OF FLYING REGULATIONS HAS BEEN MADE UNDER ARTICLE 96 OF THE ANO 2005 IN THE AREA BOUNDED BY THE COORDINATES 5140N 00020W (ELSTREE), 5139N 00010E (STAPLEFORD) , 5130N 00010E AND 5130N 00020W. PILOTS ARE FORBIDDEN TO FLY WITHIN THE DESIGNATED AIRSPACE WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE METROPOLITAN POLICE TELEPHONE 0208 345 4888. EXEMPTED ARE HEMS ACFT, POLICE ACFT, ACFT TRANSITING THE HELI ROUTES AND ARRIVALS AND DEPARTURES TO LONDON HEATHROW, LONDON STANSTED, LONDON CITY, LONDON LUTON, NORTHOLT, ELSTREE, BATTERSEA AND STAPLEFORD. ATC UNITS CLOSE TO THE AREA ARE REQUESTED TO ADVISE AIRCRAFT ON THEIR FREQUENCIES OF THE CONTENTS OF THIS NOTAM. MIL ACFT SHOULD COMPLY WITH JSP552 201.135.9. SFC 10000FT AMSL 10 AUG 16:07 UNTIL 11 AUG 11:00 ESTIMATED
Interesting that this was issued somewhat late in the day while TV news is parroting that everything is returning to normal...
Interesting that this was issued somewhat late in the day while TV news is parroting that everything is returning to normal...
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It is a "no win" situation for the security professionals. People will always complain. Today, they are "inconvenienced" due to luggage & delays. Big deal. I'm confident that they would find it "inconvenient" if they or their loved ones find themselves on board an aicraft which is about to be blown out of the sky by an terrorist made device.
I have a very high respect for security professionals and if they deem it right to take any kind of measures to save lives - so be it. No discussion, just comply.
Inevitably, there will be false warnings sometime, but that comes with the teritorry. It is just very hard to find that needle in the haystack.
I have a very high respect for security professionals and if they deem it right to take any kind of measures to save lives - so be it. No discussion, just comply.
Inevitably, there will be false warnings sometime, but that comes with the teritorry. It is just very hard to find that needle in the haystack.
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Originally Posted by derekl
Each time the terrorists try a tactic, the specific tactic is blocked by security procedures post hoc. So the terrorists try a new tactic. We then block that.
We had hijackers with pistols, we introduced metal detectors. Then there were hold luggage bombs, so we started screening hold luggage one way and another. Then the hijackers used little knives, so we confiscated nail-clippers. Next we had the shoe-bomber, so now we all have to have our shoes inspected.
And the latest is liquid explosive in bottles, so we ban bottles of water.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm dreading the eventuality of the underwear bomber.
If we ground all commercial flights, they'll attack trains, buses, shopping centres, sports stadia, motorway junctions, churches, synagogues, random crowds of people with truck bombs. And several of these have been committed.
I regret that intelligence-led profiling is now absolutely necessary.
We had hijackers with pistols, we introduced metal detectors. Then there were hold luggage bombs, so we started screening hold luggage one way and another. Then the hijackers used little knives, so we confiscated nail-clippers. Next we had the shoe-bomber, so now we all have to have our shoes inspected.
And the latest is liquid explosive in bottles, so we ban bottles of water.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm dreading the eventuality of the underwear bomber.
If we ground all commercial flights, they'll attack trains, buses, shopping centres, sports stadia, motorway junctions, churches, synagogues, random crowds of people with truck bombs. And several of these have been committed.
I regret that intelligence-led profiling is now absolutely necessary.
I think they stopped checking shoes well when i worked in the airport 2 years ago. and i think they should start checking shoes again and continue with the high security that we have now.
People say the terrorists have succeeded because they have caused cancellation of flights but in my mind the security services have made me feel alot safer.
Air travel is a luxory and we shouldn't moan about having security checks.
Because at the end of the day, the good people being the general public should be protected from terrorists, and i'm sure the passengers who think about things do appreciate the security.
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Originally Posted by flown-it
FlyingConsultant
You question the wisdom of banning cell phones. Well lets see, haven't cell phones been used already to set off explosives?
You question the wisdom of banning cell phones. Well lets see, haven't cell phones been used already to set off explosives?
Not that I am married to my cell phone, mind you. It just seems to me that if you get a better handle on explosives, you don't need to worry about the trigger. For instance, you could have sniffing dogs at every gate. That would probably increase the cost of a flight by the cost of dog + handler = what - $1,000 pe flight, if that? Add that as security fee, gets you $10/seat or so for a 737 and $2-3 for a 747 (for which you might need two dogs, though). Few will complain because this actually makes sense as it is targeted, useful, visible, and effective. Instead, they try to develop high-tech sniffing machines that are (a) more expensive, (b) slower, (c) at the moment mainly sitting around because they don't work. Low tech, more people is better.
Security screening is good. Not allowing books is just overkill. The rest is just a skill problem. Take Flights out of Frankfurt to the US - EVERYBODY gets hand searched. Nevertheless, the lines at that second screening are rarely longer than 10-15 minutes, and often as short as 5 minutes. Reasonable measure, works well, minimal delay.
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So fine, nobody can bring aboard their contact lens solutions, little bottles of alcohol, baby formulas or even 
water. 
So Al Q or whatever will now start sticking the stuff up their ar$e !
water. So Al Q or whatever will now start sticking the stuff up their ar$e !