Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff

[BOAC]

Just to confirm - my reservations were with the 'authorities'. I know the IPA is active (although BALPA will not 'officially' work with them??).

Anyway - can we have some BALPA's supporting this idea please?

[BOAC]

Now we have a lowered 'alert state', does anyone have new DofT guidelines for crew security clearance? EG Do we still have to do 'shoes'?

[30W]

BOAC,

Haven't seen any 'official' notification for crew, but operated from BHX today and didn't have to remove shoes. Even my sandwiches with Branston Pickle slapped heavily inside didn't raise query!

Is sanity returning? - I dearly hope so.......

30W

[matt_hooks]

Indeed 30W, one can only hope so!

I think that the industry will not take too much damage if the security can be scaled back to a sensible level at this point. If the hyper-restrictive security had carried on for a few more days I think serious damage could well have been done!

Here's hoping that lessons will be taken away and learned from this process.

[Stall Horn]

Balpa Response

Further to my last post on here, (No: 409), in which I copied an e-mail I'd sent to BALPA, I have now received a reply. They've obviously received messages from others too!

It does appear as if they are taking it seriously...
It remains to be seen what they actually do.

Originally Posted by BALPA

Thank you for your e-mail which Pauline Knapp has forwarded to me highlighting your comments to the Chairmans Security brief to our members.

At the next meeting that BALPA has with TRANSEC we will be raising with them some of the anomalies and the obvious lack of security training and the inconsistencies that have come out of the heightened security measures, particularly so whilst we were under the ‘critical’ regime. These particular difficulties should reduce now that we have returned to the ‘severe’ regime, but there is no reason why we should not learn from them in case of a return to ‘critical’ in the future.

Some of the issues that we will take up from your input and others are the non segregation from passengers when security screening flight crew.
The confiscation of essential tools of the trade, such as pens, lap tops soft lens eyewash and mobile phones.
The impossible operating constraint of having bags in the hold when operating shorthaul with a frequent change of aircraft. Lack of access to food and drink.

As you say, the procedures put in place are not sustainable long term, and unless the passengers are treated more reasonably we will not have an industry left to protect.

Many thanks for your input, it is most appreciated

Regards

Carolyn Evans

Head, Flight Safety Department
The British Air Line Pilots Association
Telephone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Mobile: [phone]
E-mail: [email protected]


BALPA Legal Protection for members
Emergency Helpline: [phone] Legal Advice Line: [phone]
www.balpa.org

[Sunfish]

In Australia we have to have an ASIC (Aviation Security Identification Card). Costs about $110 and you get checked by ASIO, CIA, FBI, Federal police and anyone else they can think of. Issuing them took a year.

Anyone and everyone who goes airside is supposed to have one of these at any airport that has an RPT service...........But I'm not sure about the kangaroos at some outback strips.

[World of Tweed]

You raise a good point Sunfish....

In the uk we don't have a nationally issued Airside ID. If we did it would make t far easier for those of us who regularly fly out of mutiple bases.

For example my MAN ID was not accepted alone on a recent (pre-last week) trip to BHX. I was asked to produce my passport and licence. I almost refused as even though our respective IDs are issued by different airports they are still valid identification. I felt like asking him what was the point of a Criminal Records Check and 5 years referencing for an ID that he is going to ignore just because it says MAN instead of BHX..... I DIDN'T though as I got the impression that he was only the messenger.

The problem is compounded by the fact that not all our airports are owned by the same operator.

We need a national Airside ID system - or security personel who accept them on face value.

[bruppy]

sanity Returning??

Originally Posted by 30W

BOAC,

Haven't seen any 'official' notification for crew, but operated from BHX today and didn't have to remove shoes. Even my sandwiches with Branston Pickle slapped heavily inside didn't raise query!

Is sanity returning? - I dearly hope so.......

30W

"Official" line at BHX is as far as I can make out, 1 in 3 to have their shoes/belt, watch etc removed & I believe Security are "unoficially" hitting those crew/staff who are not BHX based, (Believe me from what I've heard they are all as p155ed off with this as we are). cant believe though that they did'nt flag up the potentially dangerous Branston pickle though, if not for any thing else but taste concerns alone

WOT's call for national I/D's is something that has been asked about for ages, I have the pleasure (??) in working for a company with bases at 13 UK airports & I have either visited (officially) or worked in nearly all, by far the worst has always been the BAA ones for petty mindless Bureaucracy (thank god for spellcheck) & I believe that it is because of the BAA not willing to open up its airports that a national ID system has never been implemented.

Hopefully the current security issues that have been highlited will force the Govt to re-examine its ID protocols & get rid of the totally banal disclosure system. anyone ever totally read the 8/9 pages of offences that can stop you getting a pass, i think that "sexual relations" with an animal was amongst them, in that case how did Air Wales ever recruit!!

[NG_Kaptain]

I've just returned from a four day rotation, before I left I posted on how security at EGLL was reasonable and crew friendly, I retract that. This morning we went through a dedicated crew security checkpoint in our crew bus, were treated as potential "security risks", passenger restrictions placed on crew, one small piece per crewmember, our flight attendants were required to put their purses(female FA's) in their totebags, I was given a choice...Nav bag or laptop in cockpit the other in hold...It was farcical, lip stick and perfume confiscated and all of this at a crew checkpoint with a crew in dedicted transport with all of us knowing each other, no chance of imposters. Was totally unbelievable, thought Heathrow security had common sense.

I sure hope the security gurus are reading these posts.Thank god I'm going on leave and dont have to put up with the for a while...

[sky9]

Don't be too hard on Security. One of the easiest ways of getting onto the FD is to get a job as cabin staff.
What we really need is proper security checks before the issue of any airside pass. The last couple of weeks has shown that this may well not be the case.

[luddite]

Dunno about that Sky9. According to Breakfast tv the easiest way is just to roll up as a 12-year-old runaway with no documentation at all.

[A and C]

BAA just make up the rules to suit themselfs.

Last night I saw the latest from the BAA security boss at Gatwick, in this missive he admits that he is prohibiting crew from carrying ALL items of cosmetics dispite the fact that some of these items are NOT prohibited by the DfT.

This just shows that the third rate security management of the BAA cant inforce the security regulations that they are required to by law and so are just making up the rules as they go along.

The prohbition of lip balm is a real health issue to those of us who have to work in the very dry enviroment of a pressurised aircraft and to have such items removed just because the BAA can't cope is not good enough.

The fact of the matter is that the BAA security management is not up to the job and should be removed.

[AuthorityStinks]

The problem is now solved altogether. This morning on BBC Breakfast it was reported that a 12 year old WITHOUT a ticket managed to get on an aircraft at (I believe)Gatwick

Just get yourself a 12 year old and take with you what ever you feel appropriate

[NiteKos]

All the lad had to do is latch onto a family and walk past the security gate in the confusion over boarding passes, he still passed through security and was stopped by the Monarch crew when he tried to board the aircraft by himself.The GM TV report that he was seated having a snack is pure fiction. The system worked and filtered out a non ticketed passenger before departure. Its worth remembering, as crew, that the boarding pass check is the one time that crew can be an effective final check of any failings by security by making sure all pasengers are fully ticketed and entitled to fly.

Well done the Monarch crew in doing a first rate job when others were clearly failing in theirs.

[Nov71]

TV now reporting an adult male with briefcase sat in a Thomas Cook plane during cleaning phase. Legged it when challenged

[763 jock]

Went through the crew channel at MAN this morning. Didn't have any liquids with me but one other guy had a body spray pulled from him. A lady working for WHSmith had several cases of shrink wrapped Tropicana or similar allowed through as it was presumably "stock". Totally inconsistent as she then proceeded into the baggage handling hall where it could have been handed to an untrustworthy pilot like me..

[ALLDAYDELI]

whats the deal at LHR currently for pax & crew clearing security landside to airside, full body searches still in order.?

[NG_Kaptain]

whats the deal at LHR currently for pax & crew clearing security landside to airside, full body searches still in order.?

Yes it is. Yesterday went through the crew channel at EGLL and the whole crew was given the full treatment. Was told crew were considered passengers in their eyes and the pax guidelines were to be followed and applied to us. This was through the drive through entrance in the crew bus going airside.

[etsd0001]

I've just had my BAA LHR ID renewed. One of the farcical things about it was I needed to bring my passport and NI number to prove who I was. This was after I had driven across the airport, airside, on my exisiting valid ID!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Ref the young lad who walked through Gatwick onto an aircraft and the guy who disturbed the cleaners.. It's all PERFECTLY OK because a bloke from Gatwick just said on TV there was definitely no breach of security..

Just where do they get these nut-bags from?