Airport Security (Merged) - Effects on Crew/Staff

[Globaliser]

Originally Posted by Danny

As was pointed out to Aeropig, what is there to stop the families of airport police, customs officers or even the screeners themselves from being held hostage and forcing the police, customs or screeners to carry through something? Nothing!

What about impersonation of aircrew? How difficult would it be for security to detect that, particularly at busy airports where they come in all different shapes, colours and sizes? I know that some places have dedicated crew arrangements, and crew often go through as a group for a single flight, which would make it more difficult for an individual to carry out a successful impersonation. But what about the airports where aircrew clear security through the same points as pax?

[scroggs]

The problem to be overcome is that of establishing identity beyond doubt. Once that is achieved (and some method of doing so must be found), then most other restrictions for crew could be lifted. Until identity is beyond doubt, at mixed pax/crew security points there will continue to be problems. However, at crew-only security points (as at LHR and LGW for based crew) a more intelligent, co-operative policy would not go amiss.

[Khaosai]

Hi Danny,

might be an idea to take your licence passport and glasses in the clear plastig bag provided, then at least you can go on your flight if your suitcase becomes lost.

Rgds.

[flaps40]

LOST - one teabag and some chocolate biscuits

I wonder if the readers of Pprune can help me. I am an airline training Captain with 11000 hours of experience and a very BBC voice. I probably do not look very much like a suspicious person, don't even have a moustache. I really try to do a lovely professional job for my company and the delightful european travelling public. However I encountered extreme stress on Thursday last when the security staff at my cosy BAA airport searched my bags with such zeal that not even a single teabag nor my chocolate biscuits (which I always share with the crew) survived.
I resorted to desperate measure the following day when I have to confess I took great delight is smuggling some illicit confectionery (mostly successfully, although a couple of biscuits were cracked in their hiding places!) and a teabag carried in an unusual place, too!
Should I file a CAA MOR to confess to this sin? Or should I keep my mouth shut? I am beginning to have a little trouble recalling whether or not the aircrew and security staff are in fact 'all on the same side' or are instead 'them-and-us'.
Finally, i drink darjeeling tea, but am toying with the idea of gunpowder tea instead. is this illegal? you help appreciated

[Dream Land]

What about impersonation of aircrew? How difficult would it be for security to detect that, particularly at busy airports where they come in all different shapes, colours and sizes? I know that some places have dedicated crew arrangements, and crew often go through as a group for a single flight, which would make it more difficult for an individual to carry out a successful impersonation. But what about the airports where aircrew clear security through the same points as pax? by Globaliser

At airports where crew and pax use the same security check point I think it is very easy to do, the emphasis being the security check, not the ID check, so the crew operating the flight is standing around in their socks while someone that works at Burger King airside walks right through with a local pass.

[Oh that's super!]

How about a special crew channel, with registered retina and fingerprint scans? Hard to fake that. Being an imposter won't work.

However, that won't stop the bloody terrorists from actually training and becoming an airline pilot.

Those damn terrorists... they genuinely disgust me.

[Ranger1]

Flaps40
Sorry it is not politically correct to say you have a BBC voice! The BBC now hire those with regional accents so we can all learn to massacre the English language, whatever that is these days! Actually I think it is now called American English!
Joking aside they at least still seem happy enough to let us carry around the biggest bomb of all! The B***** aeroplane! But I am afraid your tea bags and biscuits are still a security risk even more so than that fire axe it appears!

[Capt H Peacock]

Danny, as I’m sure you agree, the argument about kidnapping loved ones to force the pilots to carry something through is completely illogical.

What if the terrorists simply instruct the pilot to crash the plane? What then? Ban us from the flightdeck altogether?

This fatuous argument is usually used by those who cannot reasonably justify the procedures that are forced upon us, and to rebuff anyone who refuses to be put off by ‘It’s security, there is no discussion’.

We deserve better than this.

[Paradise Lost]

After reading 15 pages of repetitious comments, may I respectfully suggest the following alternative employment;
1. Join Netjets Europe
2. Manufacture Clear plastic Bags
3. Sell Travel Insurance
4. Learn to Drive a train or a ferry.

We are all employed as professional aircrew for our flexibility, adaptability and ability to work under pressure.
There doesn't appear to be much flexibility or adaptability being shown in many of the above posts.

[brakedwell]

Originally Posted by Paradise Lost

After reading 15 pages of repetitious comments, may I respectfully suggest the following alternative employment;
1. Join Netjets Europe
2. Manufacture Clear plastic Bags
3. Sell Travel Insurance
4. Learn to Drive a train or a ferry.
We are all employed as professional aircrew for our flexibility, adaptability and ability to work under pressure.
There doesn't appear to be much flexibility or adaptability being shown in many of the above posts.

Forget the travel insurance - they won't pay up.

[Vizzo]

Outcomes

Originally Posted by Dutchjock

One fine day a pilot gets told by security he can't bring his bottle of water and his leatherman knife.
In a parallel universe, the same pilot brings his knife and water and take's his plane flying. After he's finished his orange (the only healthy crew food on board) he put's his knife away and take's a swig of water. He then takes the crash axe from behind his seat, swings it and takes his colleagues head clean off. Cabin crew are unable to do anything as there is a bulletproof door in the way. Next thing he disconnects the autopilot and crashes the plane with 10000 litres of explosive jet fuel into a building.
Dear mister security man, tell me again, why can't I bring my water and my knife? I honestly don't understand...
Good night

Obviously, a group of terrorist pax can spread themselves over many planes. I would imagine after 9/11 pilot vetting is pretty manic. God knows though how they will handle stopping certain people from going into FO training though. Security nightmare.

Intelligence leading to prevention is certainly the most important factor in this but we will also be entering the age of much, much earlier check-in for pax and crew alike.

I would also hope there is a saturation of our old friends the sniffer dogs at all the airports. Those little babies get my award for security excellence!

[Human Factor]

Hi Danny,

might be an idea to take your licence passport and glasses in the clear plastig bag provided, then at least you can go on your flight if your suitcase becomes lost.

Rgds.

I would suggest the opposite. Should a pilot's suitcase/flight bag go missing in the hold whilst containing his licence, passport and glasses, he won't be able to operate his next service. When this starts happening regularly, it'll start to make the point to the Department for Transport that this security policy is unworkable for flight crew. Some airlines are already aware of the problems and are in discussions with the DfT to find a solution. Sadly so far, the DfT people are behaving as we have come to expect of a bunch who have no understanding of day to day airline operations.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Jobsworths again at Manchester

Oh dear, oh dear, Manchester, maybe the world's most crew unfriendly airport, are now stopping crews from carrying flight bags/ crew bags through security !!! and yes, you will only be allowed 1 pen ?? yes 1 pen, how 3 pens are more dangerous than 1 pen is beyond me but hey, this is Manchester, and they don't know what's in them apparently ?????

now i,m all for top security but for god's sake some common sense !

[teamilk&sugar]

I am in fact going to drain my entire body of all fluids tonight before I attempt to get through Man's security....it may make a bit of a mess on the carpet, but hey...

[RAT 5]

Rumple: What do you mean "through security"? It has been stated, at some airports, that crews can take crew bags/flight bags through crew security on duty. No liquids. (why not if they are tested by the pilot? If it's OK for baby's milk to be drunk as a test, why not crew drinks? Has BALPA been consulted on any of this?) However, if passing through pax security, even if on duty at that airport, they are subject to the same rules as pax.

[Stampe]

Well I trust you are calmly returning to your crew room. Funny how the aircraft don,t seem to fly without pilots.

"Current guidance for operating crew is:-
Crew accessing the Restricted Zone through staff search areas must carry only the items they require to perform their duties (including personal hand baggage meeting that description). All such items must be x-rayed where possible and hand searched where not. All crew must be hand searched."

Notice this is loosely worded to allow discretion with the exception of fluids.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Ahh yes Rat, you are right, through pax security since at Manchester the 'crew' channel closes at night, what ? airports are 24 hr ? nooooooo, so given that the crews need to go through the pax channels they are being treated as pax ! well, i'd just love to sit in the back with a G and T.

unbelievable

[390cruise]

Fluids

It would be better if all fluids were drained from Manchester security staff.

[scroggs]

Would those who wish to discuss the effects of the current crisis on passengers please direct their comments to this thread in 'Pax & SLF'. Please leave the thread in 'R&N' for the discussion of the situation as it affects operating crew.

Scroggs

[transitionlevel]

at my airport where crew and pax share the same security channel, the airport have partitioned one of the metal detection arches and x-ray machines off and are only letting flight crew through. we are being allowed to take normal items through the checkpoint (all flight deck equipment), including hold baggage, although we still have to take shoes etc off.

Why cant every airport use this system. I must admit, common sense really isnt the norm at this airport but they must have got a bang to the head or something.