Eighteen Months of Hell!!!
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Perhaps if the thread was forwarded to the Board of Directors of the airline in question or the shareholders, that would produce justice for all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">PDG rolls eyes !. .. .Nice idea but do you think it would work, MP? All things considered.
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Pete. .This is a truly dreadful situation and I wish you and yours the very best for the future. .Strangly enough I was talking to a friend before you started this thread who is a training Captain with his airline.. .He stated to me that he was deeply concerned because a female F/O in his company was way below standard and known to be by most of the line Captains. However everybody is scared to do anything because they know she will scream sexual harassment or discrimination if anyone makes a stand. Worse still he suspects she may be sleeping with an extremely senior pilot within the company who will protect her.. .So this is still going on. Maybe the only solution is to have either all male or all female flight decks and companies need to make an effort to have at least one female training captain who could tell the truth without fear of reprecussions.
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I wonder if the 'geezerbird' in question here has actualy been made aware of some of these postings?? If she is, I sincerely hope she is sleeping bad, not eating well and felling damn ashamed of her disgusting actions. The laws and obtuce thinking of some individuals have seriously let this 'true gent' and 'professional' down. I wish i could vouch for this mans stature, but not knowing him personally, I will have to rely on what has been writen about him on this thread. MP, you are one in a million, hold your head high, and be proud. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .As for that geezerbird, if your reading this, "when the s*it goes down...you had better be ready!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
Life's too short for ironing
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Monkee. .. .Your story sounds as awful as MP's. I am ashamed to be associated with someone who could behave in such a dishonourable and downright scummy manner by being of the same sex.. .. .Can this friend of yours document, and encourage others to do the same, any mistakes/discrepancies made by this FO, and have the CVR pulled on any flight when these occur, ensuring that he has made the situation very clear for all to hear? In case she tries the big SH (sexual harrassment), have a CA as witness anytime he feels there is going to be any sort of confrontation regarding her work performance. It sounds a very similar to when a woman is being harrassed at work, but it is never witnessed, and I think I am correct in saying in such a situation the woman is recommended to document everything, and if possible, have a witness. Can he persuade colleagues (preferably female, if possible) to ride on the jumpseat whenever they are rostered together? . .. .It all seems a bit extreme to have to go to such lengths, but if she has the potential to ruin his career for sure, and possibly any relationship he may have, nothing can be too much if it means preventing that, surely?.. .. .Hopefully someone is printing off all the posts and filing them in the pigeon hole of the person who did this to MP?
Uncle Pete
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PDG. .. .NOT a chance mate!. .. .They are totally unshameable so it would an utter waste of time. If you are who I think you are have a go.. .. .Back to the DIY. .. .MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
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In my company, senior management realized that they had a problem with junior management pilots documenting incidents correctly so that they would be ironclad legally. Their solution, hire pilots who are also lawyers.. .. .The reason I recount the above is that it is extremely important to properly document every incident and that includes charges of sexual harassment or discrimination.. .. .If you do your homework, justice will prevail. However sometimes justice needs a little help. Alls fair in love and war.. .. .MP . .. .Maybe management may be “unshameable”, but I bet the traveling public and shareholders won’t be amused.
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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Steady on here. Let's be clear the lady in question did not raise any issue of sexual harrassment or discrimination. That was Pete.. .. .She made some minor remark and retracted it in public.. .. .Maybe she is not a good pilot. I don't know. But I find this onslaught of slagging quite inconsistent with PPruNe and I'm disappointed Danny has left it on Rumours and News.
Uncle Pete
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twistedenginestarter. .. .I suggest you read page 1 again. . .. .The lady did the harassing, not me. She has refused to apologise to me, which I would have accepted. She has admitted to me, in front of two managers at a meeting, that she would use the same tactics again.. .. .Good luck when you next fly with her. You'll need it.. .. .Bewildered MP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
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MP. .I presume your loss of licence insurance provided by the company paid out for 'mental illness'.. .Guess what, a little birdy suggested that Mental illness may now be written out of the Loss of licence cover for your ex-company.. .. .A dreadful story and frightening to see how it has been reinforced by others experiences - forwarned is forearmed. Best of luck in your retirement and I hope the supportive posts help to minimise the effects of the past few months.
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Maybe the conclusion we have to draw from all this and the other thread started on this topic is that here is one industry in which the sexes cannot mix. Safe operation seems to be compromised therefore we need to operate either all female or all male crews.
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prehaps a better selection process would be more effective. . I think the older generation have more fixed ideas about women and do not see them as equals its sad but true. .Let the old folk think and the young folk do.
A simple note of caution, purely from an Admin standpoint:. .. .May I kindly remind readers of the "rules" to which all contributors have agreed regarding defamatory postings. . .. .Calls to "name and shame", whether or not they seem justified, are not appropriate on this forum. . .. .There are plenty of ways to voice your opinions and support, or otherwise discuss this topic, without yielding to the temptation to use this forum as a public venue for revenge.
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MP,. .. .I can only say I am shocked by what I have read, and doubly so by how unsurprised I am by the company reaction. I have heard of similar stories in the past.. .. .Good luck in your retirement: I hope this incident does not taint your attitude. You sound like one of the Good Guys.. .. .Can I just ask, where were BALPA in all of this? (Assuming you were a member of course).
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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McD. .. .This is the serious allegation made by Pete:. .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> totally ineffective Fleet Manager refuses to discipline a lady first officer for sexual harassment. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">This has not been substantitated in the slightest unless you count having a rude clipboard as sexual harrassment. By all means have a poll on whether other pilots can buy in to that but in the meantime I think you have to say most men should be able to ignore trivia like that.. .. .True, other gender issues have come in to the discussion. There is a suggestion that the female pilot was dealt with leniently because of fear of sexual discrimination but that is nothing to do with harrassment whatsoever.. .. .The Fleet Manager seems to have attempted to deal with this case in, I must say, exactly the way I would. . .. .It seems Pete, who we learn is a very valuable pilot, well liked etc etc, nevertheless cannot control his anger and just walk away. He gets all screwed up, so much so that he cannot work. Eventually he has to give up his job. A sad story which rather shames the female concerned, but is it enough to make accusations against the Fleet Manager?. .. .There is a word for this and I think it might be defamation.
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McD, . .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> May I kindly remind readers of the "rules" to which all contributors have agreed regarding defamatory postings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">The Oxford English Dictionary defines "defame and defamatory" as:. .. . To take away or destroy the good fame or reputation of:to speak evil of:to charge falsely . .. .It appears then that the individual MP has stated made the complaint against him, which was then retracted does have a reputation. I submit, however, that it is not a "good" reputaion nor is it a famous reputation. That being the case a comment cannot remove, destroy or tarnish a non existent "good" reputaion. Moreover, MP has not charged falsely: the individual made the accusation. I can see nothing defamatory here.
