Ryanair and BALPA/IALPA
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someone got fired because they decided to question the new policy on no crew water onboard airplanes? too bad...take it or leave it.
One of this days we'll see vending machines fitted on the cabin. That certainly will cut some costs on CC salary. Oooops I'm probably givig some "good" ideas to someone.
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This is not aimed at any particular company, because it applies to so many.
Whenever there is a 'whinge' about T's & C's & life style there is always someone who responds with;
"If you don't like it leave. You knew what you were getting into when you signed."
This is not always true. I've never been told at interview that the company is anything other than the best for pilots. It has always been some months later, perhaps sooner, that the real truth unfolds. In the 21st century, in western Europe (EU) earning our levels of salary and accepting the levels of responsibility, it is not unreasonable to expect good, even high, standards of personnel treatment. It would apply in most other industries. It should not be necessary to conduct an audit on every employer's attitude before you join up. (Sadly, though, it does seem the case).
Applying the logic of "you should leave" to moving house, it would go something like this.
You move into a good neighbourhood of valuable houses, where everyone seems to be socialable, well behaved and with community spirit. Even your closest neighbour, on first meeting, was convivial. After some months the truth outs, and the next door family prove to be a nightmare for many reasons. A quick poll of the other residents discover that this has been going on ever since the louts moved in and everyone is sick of it.
Who should leave the neighbourhood?
Whenever there is a 'whinge' about T's & C's & life style there is always someone who responds with;
"If you don't like it leave. You knew what you were getting into when you signed."
This is not always true. I've never been told at interview that the company is anything other than the best for pilots. It has always been some months later, perhaps sooner, that the real truth unfolds. In the 21st century, in western Europe (EU) earning our levels of salary and accepting the levels of responsibility, it is not unreasonable to expect good, even high, standards of personnel treatment. It would apply in most other industries. It should not be necessary to conduct an audit on every employer's attitude before you join up. (Sadly, though, it does seem the case).
Applying the logic of "you should leave" to moving house, it would go something like this.
You move into a good neighbourhood of valuable houses, where everyone seems to be socialable, well behaved and with community spirit. Even your closest neighbour, on first meeting, was convivial. After some months the truth outs, and the next door family prove to be a nightmare for many reasons. A quick poll of the other residents discover that this has been going on ever since the louts moved in and everyone is sick of it.
Who should leave the neighbourhood?
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Unions look to get off the ground at Ryanair
A long-running dogfight at the low-cost airline took a new turn this week with the launch of a website designed to bypass the management and communicate directly with staff. Colin Cottell reports
Saturday September 4, 2004
The Guardian
Ryanair pilots were left in little doubt about what the company thought of their trade union when, earlier this summer, a manager at Stansted airport told them: "We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining Balpa, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organisation he/she so chooses."
The manager went on to advise the staff not to spend their money on union subscriptions by adding: "If you want to waste £1,000 we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun."
When asked about the email, Ryanair has consistently replied: "We do not comment on any internal communications or discussions between ourselves and our people."
The unions argue that an aggressive pursuit of profits pervades the company's management. This, they say, is reflected in the way staff are forced to pay for their uniforms and airport car parking, a refusal to pay trainees and a hostile anti-union corporate culture.
Until now, the company and its colourful chief executive Michael O'Leary appeared to hold most of the aces. Earlier this year, Mr O'Leary, who had once again successfully resisted the pilots' attempts to win trade union recognition, suggested that anyone who wasn't happy was "free to go elsewhere - godspeed to them."
But this week, the trade union movement struck back with the launch of a website designed to go over the head of Mr O'Leary and directly to his workforce, via their PCs.
In a virtual strike on the airline, the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) launched www.ryan-be-fair.org which is described by the ITF as a "new kind of campaigning". The site has already received support from British unions such as the TGWU, the GMB, and Amicus, and from unions across Europe.
"Traditional campaigning methods, such as leafleting or union meetings, are not suitable. We intend to give our colleagues at Ryanair options other than visits to union offices at the airports, to get in touch with union representatives," said Ingo Marowsky, secretary of the ITF's civil aviation section.
"Instead, we want to invite employees to communicate with each other, and with the unions in their home countries, and to join them." The ITF stresses that one of the website's key features is its confidentiality.
In an attempt to build public pressure on the company to change its ways, the website is also designed to allow the public to find out more about the employees at Ryanair and the social practices of the company. It contains an appeal for fairness.
The website is sure to raise the hackles of the company. Pprune.org, a pilots' internet forum, recently removed a hugely popular thread titled "Ryanair, a call to action" because of the threat of legal action from the company. It has since re-opened, although to avoid legal problems, users posting messages are urged to follow strict guidelines.
The difficulties facing trade unions in Ryanair are formidable. "People are quite frightened even to mention the subject," says one Ryanair employee, who talked to Jobs & Money this week but wishes to remain anonymous.
"You could probably discuss it outside of work. But you would never discuss it on the plane, or anything like that. I was handed a union form. But I was told by the other workers that if I joined the union, I would be sacked."
He did join the union, but makes sure the company doesn't know. "I pay my subscriptions by direct debit, rather than have the company take it from my wages. The majority of staff would join a trade union. Without a doubt," he says.
Mr O' Leary and the trade unions share a history. As long ago as 1998, in a bitter dispute, he defeated a Dublin strike for union recognition by 39 baggage handlers from SIPTU, a large Irish union. Since then, he has rebuffed all unions' efforts to gain influence within the company.
"We have about half a dozen members in Ryanair. And they are extremely nervous," says Brendan Gold, the TGWU's national secretary for civil aviation.
Amicus and the GMB, with about 100 members each, tell a similar story.
Ryanair says it observes and respects the right of its employees to join a trade union. But at the same time, it says it also respects the rights of employees to continue to negotiate directly through their own elected representatives on issue of conditions and pay.
A spokesman says: "There is no evidence to suggest Ryanair pilots want the trade unions to represent them. The last time this matter was put to a secret ballot, conducted independently in October 2001 only 18% of Ryanair's Balpa members supported trade union recognition. The reason the majority do not want union recognition is because they achieve better pay and bigger pay increases by dealing directly with the company.
It says that its average salary of £50,582 is among the highest of any airline in Europe, and compares favourably with British Airways (£37,602) and EasyJet (£41,384).
However, this summer relationships between the company and its staff plummeted further when, according to trade union sources, a number of pilots organised a boycott of information meetings with Mr O'Leary in London. According to one source, those who didn't attend, and several who did, received a memo questioning their commitment to the company.
Meanwhile, Ryanair is on a collision course with some of its Irish pilots. Captain Evan Cullen, president of IALPA (the Irish pilots union) confirmed reports in the Irish Times that a number of Dublin-based pilots received individually tailored letters which contained "a clearly implied threat that pilots who engaged in union activity would not be trained on the company's new Boeing 737-800 fleet".
Mr Gold says trade unions face a long haul in persuading Ryanair employees of the benefits of an independent trade union, and achieving recognition. "One of the problems is that many of the workers in Ryanair have no knowledge of unions whatsoever. Mr O'Leary may be saying to them 'Don't worry about those unions, they are an irrelevance, and I will look after you'.
"It would be arrogant and wrong to assume that everybody in Ryanair wishes to join a union, and it is only Mr O'Leary that has prevented them," continues Mr Gold. "We recognise that cabin crew enjoy working for Ryanair."
None the less, says Mr Gold, there are "quite a number" of staff who feel they need an independent organisation to assist them, and this website provides a valuable way to engage with them.
"Ryanair is like an old eastern European country with an iron curtain around it. You can't get in from outside. We have got to open it up, and this website is an ideal mechanism to do it."
A long-running dogfight at the low-cost airline took a new turn this week with the launch of a website designed to bypass the management and communicate directly with staff. Colin Cottell reports
Saturday September 4, 2004
The Guardian
Ryanair pilots were left in little doubt about what the company thought of their trade union when, earlier this summer, a manager at Stansted airport told them: "We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining Balpa, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organisation he/she so chooses."
The manager went on to advise the staff not to spend their money on union subscriptions by adding: "If you want to waste £1,000 we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun."
When asked about the email, Ryanair has consistently replied: "We do not comment on any internal communications or discussions between ourselves and our people."
The unions argue that an aggressive pursuit of profits pervades the company's management. This, they say, is reflected in the way staff are forced to pay for their uniforms and airport car parking, a refusal to pay trainees and a hostile anti-union corporate culture.
Until now, the company and its colourful chief executive Michael O'Leary appeared to hold most of the aces. Earlier this year, Mr O'Leary, who had once again successfully resisted the pilots' attempts to win trade union recognition, suggested that anyone who wasn't happy was "free to go elsewhere - godspeed to them."
But this week, the trade union movement struck back with the launch of a website designed to go over the head of Mr O'Leary and directly to his workforce, via their PCs.
In a virtual strike on the airline, the International Transport Workers Federation (ITF) launched www.ryan-be-fair.org which is described by the ITF as a "new kind of campaigning". The site has already received support from British unions such as the TGWU, the GMB, and Amicus, and from unions across Europe.
"Traditional campaigning methods, such as leafleting or union meetings, are not suitable. We intend to give our colleagues at Ryanair options other than visits to union offices at the airports, to get in touch with union representatives," said Ingo Marowsky, secretary of the ITF's civil aviation section.
"Instead, we want to invite employees to communicate with each other, and with the unions in their home countries, and to join them." The ITF stresses that one of the website's key features is its confidentiality.
In an attempt to build public pressure on the company to change its ways, the website is also designed to allow the public to find out more about the employees at Ryanair and the social practices of the company. It contains an appeal for fairness.
The website is sure to raise the hackles of the company. Pprune.org, a pilots' internet forum, recently removed a hugely popular thread titled "Ryanair, a call to action" because of the threat of legal action from the company. It has since re-opened, although to avoid legal problems, users posting messages are urged to follow strict guidelines.
The difficulties facing trade unions in Ryanair are formidable. "People are quite frightened even to mention the subject," says one Ryanair employee, who talked to Jobs & Money this week but wishes to remain anonymous.
"You could probably discuss it outside of work. But you would never discuss it on the plane, or anything like that. I was handed a union form. But I was told by the other workers that if I joined the union, I would be sacked."
He did join the union, but makes sure the company doesn't know. "I pay my subscriptions by direct debit, rather than have the company take it from my wages. The majority of staff would join a trade union. Without a doubt," he says.
Mr O' Leary and the trade unions share a history. As long ago as 1998, in a bitter dispute, he defeated a Dublin strike for union recognition by 39 baggage handlers from SIPTU, a large Irish union. Since then, he has rebuffed all unions' efforts to gain influence within the company.
"We have about half a dozen members in Ryanair. And they are extremely nervous," says Brendan Gold, the TGWU's national secretary for civil aviation.
Amicus and the GMB, with about 100 members each, tell a similar story.
Ryanair says it observes and respects the right of its employees to join a trade union. But at the same time, it says it also respects the rights of employees to continue to negotiate directly through their own elected representatives on issue of conditions and pay.
A spokesman says: "There is no evidence to suggest Ryanair pilots want the trade unions to represent them. The last time this matter was put to a secret ballot, conducted independently in October 2001 only 18% of Ryanair's Balpa members supported trade union recognition. The reason the majority do not want union recognition is because they achieve better pay and bigger pay increases by dealing directly with the company.
It says that its average salary of £50,582 is among the highest of any airline in Europe, and compares favourably with British Airways (£37,602) and EasyJet (£41,384).
However, this summer relationships between the company and its staff plummeted further when, according to trade union sources, a number of pilots organised a boycott of information meetings with Mr O'Leary in London. According to one source, those who didn't attend, and several who did, received a memo questioning their commitment to the company.
Meanwhile, Ryanair is on a collision course with some of its Irish pilots. Captain Evan Cullen, president of IALPA (the Irish pilots union) confirmed reports in the Irish Times that a number of Dublin-based pilots received individually tailored letters which contained "a clearly implied threat that pilots who engaged in union activity would not be trained on the company's new Boeing 737-800 fleet".
Mr Gold says trade unions face a long haul in persuading Ryanair employees of the benefits of an independent trade union, and achieving recognition. "One of the problems is that many of the workers in Ryanair have no knowledge of unions whatsoever. Mr O'Leary may be saying to them 'Don't worry about those unions, they are an irrelevance, and I will look after you'.
"It would be arrogant and wrong to assume that everybody in Ryanair wishes to join a union, and it is only Mr O'Leary that has prevented them," continues Mr Gold. "We recognise that cabin crew enjoy working for Ryanair."
None the less, says Mr Gold, there are "quite a number" of staff who feel they need an independent organisation to assist them, and this website provides a valuable way to engage with them.
"Ryanair is like an old eastern European country with an iron curtain around it. You can't get in from outside. We have got to open it up, and this website is an ideal mechanism to do it."
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for the year 2002/2003 Ryanair cabin crew had a turnover rate approaching 85%
how can a group form effective opposition when those that object to the working practises of ryanair leave after 3 to 6 months .
about the only ones happy to be working for ryanair are the girls and guys from the high unemployment areas of spain and the newly joined countries of the EU,
cabin crew in ryanair get shafted more then any job i have ever seen in any company in any county,
some say that the money they earn ( if they have no other qualifications ) is excellant for the age that they are , however divide the salary by the amount of hours they work and the crap that they have to put up with (particularly in stansted where i personally have seen managers roaring in girls faces until they broke down and cried )
and i think you'll see its not really worth it ,
how can a group form effective opposition when those that object to the working practises of ryanair leave after 3 to 6 months .
about the only ones happy to be working for ryanair are the girls and guys from the high unemployment areas of spain and the newly joined countries of the EU,
cabin crew in ryanair get shafted more then any job i have ever seen in any company in any county,
some say that the money they earn ( if they have no other qualifications ) is excellant for the age that they are , however divide the salary by the amount of hours they work and the crap that they have to put up with (particularly in stansted where i personally have seen managers roaring in girls faces until they broke down and cried )
and i think you'll see its not really worth it ,
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in stansted where i personally have seen managers roaring in girls faces until they broke down and cried
JM read it - your girls and boys ain't happy so it ain't just the front end people who are cheesed off....
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Ryanair, the workers of ryanair made a web-page
the workers of ryanair made a web-page
www.ryan-be-fair.org
please enter to visit the web,support us!
www.ryan-be-fair.org
please enter to visit the web,support us!
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MOL running out of excuses
News just in...
The Swedish faction of the ITF has started a campaign passing out printed sick bags to passengers boarding at Skavsta airport. All of a sudden the isolated UK and Ireland based union decision seems to also be making more precedence in the bases elsewhere....
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/09/1094499607.html
With Easyjet posting 24% profit increases, Virgin Express showing signs of recovery with profits up 10%, and the 'troubled' KLM-Air France alliance announcing yields and profits also on the rise, one wonders what of this 'battlefield of startups' this coming winter.
I think MOL will be the victim of his own success...low fares aren't going to last forever, and when you threaten legal action against papers reporting your company's flight safety, whilst also saying safety is your prime concern, it suggests a coverup...
people will be turning away from the 'ridiculous' low fares in fear of safety and staff treatment concerns...
The Swedish faction of the ITF has started a campaign passing out printed sick bags to passengers boarding at Skavsta airport. All of a sudden the isolated UK and Ireland based union decision seems to also be making more precedence in the bases elsewhere....
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/09/1094499607.html
With Easyjet posting 24% profit increases, Virgin Express showing signs of recovery with profits up 10%, and the 'troubled' KLM-Air France alliance announcing yields and profits also on the rise, one wonders what of this 'battlefield of startups' this coming winter.
I think MOL will be the victim of his own success...low fares aren't going to last forever, and when you threaten legal action against papers reporting your company's flight safety, whilst also saying safety is your prime concern, it suggests a coverup...
people will be turning away from the 'ridiculous' low fares in fear of safety and staff treatment concerns...
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Ledere i et flyselskap, som kan skrive på denne måten til sine ansatte, burde ikke kunne oppnå godkjennelse som Accountable Manager under JAR eller inneha noe form for ansvarlig posisjon i en organisasjon som opprettholder en AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
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Managers in an airline, that are able to write in this manner to its employees, should not be able to gain approval as Accountable Manager under JAR or hold any responsible position in an organisation maintaining an AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
olh
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( transcript )
Ryanair in a letter to its employees:
"We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining BALPA, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organization he/she so chooses."
( oversatt )
Ryanair i et brev til sine ansatte:
Vi har ingen innvendinger mot at en flyger i Ryanair blir medlem i BALPA ( British Airline Pilot Association ), i webstedet for de gale ( The Monster Raving Loonies ), eller ( The Moonies ), en ekstremreligiøs, påstått hjernevasket, sekt i USA. Etthvert individ ( i Ryanair, red. ), er helt og holdent fri til å bli medlem i hvilket som helst organisasjon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ledere i et flyselskap, som kan skrive på denne måten til sine ansatte, burde ikke kunne oppnå godkjennelse som Accountable Manager under JAR eller inneha noe form for ansvarlig posisjon i en organisasjon som opprettholder en AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
-------------
Managers in an airline, that are able to write in this manner to its employees, should not be able to gain approval as Accountable Manager under JAR or hold any responsible position in an organisation maintaining an AOC ( Air Operator Certificate ).
olh
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
( transcript )
Ryanair in a letter to its employees:
"We have no objection to any Ryanair pilot joining BALPA, the Taliban, the Monster Raving Loonies or indeed the Moonies. Each individual is perfectly free to join whatever organization he/she so chooses."
( oversatt )
Ryanair i et brev til sine ansatte:
Vi har ingen innvendinger mot at en flyger i Ryanair blir medlem i BALPA ( British Airline Pilot Association ), i webstedet for de gale ( The Monster Raving Loonies ), eller ( The Moonies ), en ekstremreligiøs, påstått hjernevasket, sekt i USA. Etthvert individ ( i Ryanair, red. ), er helt og holdent fri til å bli medlem i hvilket som helst organisasjon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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now the screw is turning
Good for mick to be on the recieving end.
So we earn 157 euros per annum more than sas staff on average.
the subtle flaw in the plan is that we have to pay for all the extras and they don't.
157 euros after tax,thats a free kebab!
Any of our scandinavian contributors willing to post the contents in english of the contentious article regarding safety that has the boys in such a pickle.
Another edit.... this is your last warning on this thread sergeblanco. Bear in mind the advice in the first post above before posting. One more transgression of the rules and you will be banned from this thread permanently. Admin
So we earn 157 euros per annum more than sas staff on average.
the subtle flaw in the plan is that we have to pay for all the extras and they don't.
157 euros after tax,thats a free kebab!
Any of our scandinavian contributors willing to post the contents in english of the contentious article regarding safety that has the boys in such a pickle.
Another edit.... this is your last warning on this thread sergeblanco. Bear in mind the advice in the first post above before posting. One more transgression of the rules and you will be banned from this thread permanently. Admin
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stepping out of line
I understand that perhaps there was something else in Srgeblanco's post...
but the truth is the difference in salaries between us and SAS is that SAS does have the perks we end up paying for ourselves...
what we end up taking home, using these figures, is therefore less with RYR.
I also find MOL's figure bloated compared to what the real truth about salaries is in RYR
but the truth is the difference in salaries between us and SAS is that SAS does have the perks we end up paying for ourselves...
what we end up taking home, using these figures, is therefore less with RYR.
I also find MOL's figure bloated compared to what the real truth about salaries is in RYR
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apologies for the truth
olholh,thanks for the post.look forward to it.
keep up the good work boys.
admin,i will post it as i see it.bar me if you, will but freedom of speech is my right.
keep up the good work boys.
admin,i will post it as i see it.bar me if you, will but freedom of speech is my right.
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Chickenscanfly and Sergeblanco
As a regular passenger with Ryanair out of Prestwick, is my safety at risk. As employees of Ryanair are you telling me that I should I be so concerned for my safety that I should look for another airline.
Are the record 25million passenger carried by Ryanair in August in danger, if so why are the various avaiation authorities not doing anything about it?.
This thread is to discuss ONLY the issues and arguments around unionisation within Ryanair. Speculation outside that remit is not relevant. Your question may be valid in another context, but not in this context given the rigid criteria for this thread to stay public. Please respect that, and we can keep this debate moving forward. Admin
As a regular passenger with Ryanair out of Prestwick, is my safety at risk. As employees of Ryanair are you telling me that I should I be so concerned for my safety that I should look for another airline.
Are the record 25million passenger carried by Ryanair in August in danger, if so why are the various avaiation authorities not doing anything about it?.
This thread is to discuss ONLY the issues and arguments around unionisation within Ryanair. Speculation outside that remit is not relevant. Your question may be valid in another context, but not in this context given the rigid criteria for this thread to stay public. Please respect that, and we can keep this debate moving forward. Admin
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Ok sergeblanco, if thats the way you want to play it, you are banned from this thread and this forum. "Freedom of speech" is not your right here, a "freedom to speak" has been granted and comes with a responsibility to follow the serious guidelines above. As you blatantly cannot do that,following two warnings, then we do not want your contribution thank you.
Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator
Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
Sick Squid
Rumours and News Moderator
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back on track
Well I guess banning an individual is getting a bit dire again, but I take it you guys are sitll not arou that legal stitch with the original thread.
In reply to your questions Runway 31, Ryanair is staffed with experienced and professional individuals. As it stands you have nothing to worry about.
As the moderators rightfully said the only point behind this discussion is to validate our moves towards voting for union recognition, and take on and share new information with regards to this issue ONLY as it comes...
the recent issue raised was that of our CEO's comparing our salaries against those of another airline. Whilst salary differences aren't our prime reason for taking up this kind of action, it does give an example to us of a scenario where management is bending the figures, or hiding other facts, to make it appear as if we still have a better deal than others. The startling there here is that until now we did think we brought home slightly more than other airlines, but realised that this amount is then dwindled off by the offset of items the company requires us to fund for ourselves, such as uniforms and food onboard, and now also recently taking our own water onboard, paying for our own medical certificates, loss of license insurance, and so forth.
Hearing about an example where we see the total we take home is only marginally higher than a competitor airline in Sweden, whilst those individuals don't have large portions of their pay then being offset once they receive to perform tasks required to function in their job for their employer, is an eye opener for most of us.
In retrospect with this example so far, it would be foolhearty for anyone to believe that although he put up with more bullying from management, we still get paid more than the others. This recent example is a stark reminder of this.
I Hope I haven't gone too far out of bounds with this post, and trust the moderators would have carefully read it and considered their legal standing before posting it through.
In reply to your questions Runway 31, Ryanair is staffed with experienced and professional individuals. As it stands you have nothing to worry about.
As the moderators rightfully said the only point behind this discussion is to validate our moves towards voting for union recognition, and take on and share new information with regards to this issue ONLY as it comes...
the recent issue raised was that of our CEO's comparing our salaries against those of another airline. Whilst salary differences aren't our prime reason for taking up this kind of action, it does give an example to us of a scenario where management is bending the figures, or hiding other facts, to make it appear as if we still have a better deal than others. The startling there here is that until now we did think we brought home slightly more than other airlines, but realised that this amount is then dwindled off by the offset of items the company requires us to fund for ourselves, such as uniforms and food onboard, and now also recently taking our own water onboard, paying for our own medical certificates, loss of license insurance, and so forth.
Hearing about an example where we see the total we take home is only marginally higher than a competitor airline in Sweden, whilst those individuals don't have large portions of their pay then being offset once they receive to perform tasks required to function in their job for their employer, is an eye opener for most of us.
In retrospect with this example so far, it would be foolhearty for anyone to believe that although he put up with more bullying from management, we still get paid more than the others. This recent example is a stark reminder of this.
I Hope I haven't gone too far out of bounds with this post, and trust the moderators would have carefully read it and considered their legal standing before posting it through.
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How will having union recognition assist the 5,000 individuals being made redundant at Alitalia, the 1,500 at Aer Lingus and all the possible layoffs at United and US Air to name but a few.
All these airlines are unionised and part of the problem is their demands. Is it possible that the unions cause more problems than they solve?.
All these airlines are unionised and part of the problem is their demands. Is it possible that the unions cause more problems than they solve?.
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The problem at RYR is that by constantly cutting corners they will at some point cut a corner too much. All staff should be able to speak up and not fear to be fired. That is one issue, a culture of fear is NOT constructive and in my view not safe in the long run. A guy (or gal) worried avout his or her job might not pay the attention to a 25 turn around that it deserve etc...
On top of that all the airline employees off the airlines in question have a tough time and yes employees should also pay their share. The problem at RYR is that MOL is the only one who makes a filthy amount of money but the people delivering the service are getting paid less and less after inflation....
On top of that all the airline employees off the airlines in question have a tough time and yes employees should also pay their share. The problem at RYR is that MOL is the only one who makes a filthy amount of money but the people delivering the service are getting paid less and less after inflation....
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Union strength and redundancy packages
The previous post questioned the worth of a union to the 1500 people being made redundant at Aer Lingus. Well the strength of the unions at Aer Lingus would be well known to management. Also, there would have been political pressure given that Aer Lingus is a semi state body and that a majority of the workforce would reside in the same dublin constituency.
In Ireland, the legislation covering redundancy payments was the redundancy payments act, 1967-91. This provided as a legal minimum for half a weeks pay per year of service between 16 and 41years of age, and a further full weeks pay per year of service from age 41 to the date of dismissal. Not a great deal by any stretch of the imagination.
I am almost certain that this legislation was updated in the last 2-3years and now provides for a legal minimum payment of two weeks pay per year of service.
The worth of the union to the workers at Aer Lingus then was their ability to negotiate a redundancy payment in excess of the statutory minimum.
The package on offer provides for nine weeks pay per year of service up to a maximum of 130 weeks pay, and subject to a minimum payment of €40,000 euro.
This is much better than the statutory minimum. By having union recognition, the workers are better off. In the absence of a union, management would be legally entitled to impose the statutory minimum payments. By combining, the workers at Aer Lingus have benefitted.
I can't of course speak for Alitalia or any other carrier, because I'm not familiar with their situations, nor do i believe that unions are perfect. They can be inflexible and they can have their own agenda, but barring any ideological arguments the facts in the Aer Lingus case support the view that unionisation has benefitted those workers.
I would be inclined to believe that union recognition would benefit staff at Ryanair.
In Ireland, the legislation covering redundancy payments was the redundancy payments act, 1967-91. This provided as a legal minimum for half a weeks pay per year of service between 16 and 41years of age, and a further full weeks pay per year of service from age 41 to the date of dismissal. Not a great deal by any stretch of the imagination.
I am almost certain that this legislation was updated in the last 2-3years and now provides for a legal minimum payment of two weeks pay per year of service.
The worth of the union to the workers at Aer Lingus then was their ability to negotiate a redundancy payment in excess of the statutory minimum.
The package on offer provides for nine weeks pay per year of service up to a maximum of 130 weeks pay, and subject to a minimum payment of €40,000 euro.
This is much better than the statutory minimum. By having union recognition, the workers are better off. In the absence of a union, management would be legally entitled to impose the statutory minimum payments. By combining, the workers at Aer Lingus have benefitted.
I can't of course speak for Alitalia or any other carrier, because I'm not familiar with their situations, nor do i believe that unions are perfect. They can be inflexible and they can have their own agenda, but barring any ideological arguments the facts in the Aer Lingus case support the view that unionisation has benefitted those workers.
I would be inclined to believe that union recognition would benefit staff at Ryanair.