Ryanair and BALPA/IALPA
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On Unions
As vin has very rightfully put it...
And in my humble opinion...
If Ryanair suddenly had to rack in the redundancies, they would scrape off as much excess as was necessary for them to remain profitable, and would pick and choose who it would be most cost effective to remove from the staff.
Those 1500 lay offs at Aer Lingus could in RYR terms equate to around 5,000, with minimum conditions paid for if most employees are lucky.
The decision would be done within a whim of thought, agreements would be broken with the excuse of exceptional circumstances, and people who never considered their job at risk suddenly find themselves retrenched with only a week's notice...
It is true, factual, that many people employed by ryanair have to give the company a month's notice. Ryanair, in return, only has to offer a week's notice, and it is rumoured that this is often still too long for the company to wait for.
Union's can go over the line, introduce unnecessary costs, bring in too much beaurocracy. But in a company where fear and intimidation 'seems' to be the means of management, and where employees 'feel' they have no right to say or even suggest opposition to management's decisions, a Union can mean something very different all of a sudden...
A Union can mean what a Union was originally meant for.
Again, all in my humble opinion except where otherwise stated.
And in my humble opinion...
If Ryanair suddenly had to rack in the redundancies, they would scrape off as much excess as was necessary for them to remain profitable, and would pick and choose who it would be most cost effective to remove from the staff.
Those 1500 lay offs at Aer Lingus could in RYR terms equate to around 5,000, with minimum conditions paid for if most employees are lucky.
The decision would be done within a whim of thought, agreements would be broken with the excuse of exceptional circumstances, and people who never considered their job at risk suddenly find themselves retrenched with only a week's notice...
It is true, factual, that many people employed by ryanair have to give the company a month's notice. Ryanair, in return, only has to offer a week's notice, and it is rumoured that this is often still too long for the company to wait for.
Union's can go over the line, introduce unnecessary costs, bring in too much beaurocracy. But in a company where fear and intimidation 'seems' to be the means of management, and where employees 'feel' they have no right to say or even suggest opposition to management's decisions, a Union can mean something very different all of a sudden...
A Union can mean what a Union was originally meant for.
Again, all in my humble opinion except where otherwise stated.
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I agree with what is being said about how worthwhile it is for any workforce being unionised.
I sometimes wonder though about the thoughts of the union hiararchy and if they really have the interests of the workers in their minds.
Have a look at this article from todays New York Times. The union never even put the decision on rejecting the management ideas to stave off bankruptcy to the vote. How many will now loose their jobs.
The chairman of the pilots' union at US Airways said yesterday that a proposal to cut $295 million from pilots' wages and benefits might not have saved the airline from bankruptcy but should have been put to a vote anyway.
In a broadcast on the pilots' Web site, Bill Pollock said the union would now be "at the mercy of the courts" if US Airways follows through on its threat to seek Chapter 11 protection.
His comments came a day after rebel pilots on the union's master executive council blocked other union leaders from sending the company's last offer to its 3,000 pilots. No negotiations are scheduled.
US Airways has been trying to persuade its unions to grant $800 million in concessions so it can avoid a bankruptcy filing, which would be its second in two years.
But unions, which gave the airline two sets of cuts worth $1.9 billion before it emerged from bankruptcy in April 2003, have resisted. Without the cuts, the airline has said it will most likely seek court protection, a move some analysts speculate could happen as early as Sunday
I sometimes wonder though about the thoughts of the union hiararchy and if they really have the interests of the workers in their minds.
Have a look at this article from todays New York Times. The union never even put the decision on rejecting the management ideas to stave off bankruptcy to the vote. How many will now loose their jobs.
The chairman of the pilots' union at US Airways said yesterday that a proposal to cut $295 million from pilots' wages and benefits might not have saved the airline from bankruptcy but should have been put to a vote anyway.
In a broadcast on the pilots' Web site, Bill Pollock said the union would now be "at the mercy of the courts" if US Airways follows through on its threat to seek Chapter 11 protection.
His comments came a day after rebel pilots on the union's master executive council blocked other union leaders from sending the company's last offer to its 3,000 pilots. No negotiations are scheduled.
US Airways has been trying to persuade its unions to grant $800 million in concessions so it can avoid a bankruptcy filing, which would be its second in two years.
But unions, which gave the airline two sets of cuts worth $1.9 billion before it emerged from bankruptcy in April 2003, have resisted. Without the cuts, the airline has said it will most likely seek court protection, a move some analysts speculate could happen as early as Sunday
PPRuNe in the News!
News Story here
RealMoney by TheStreet.com
Ryanair Reaching on Web Crackdown
Thursday September 9, 7:03 am ET
By Peter Eavis, Senior Columnist
Discontent among Ryanair's (NasdaqNM:RYAAY - News) pilots must be a source of great concern to the company's chief executive, Michael O'Leary. Why else would Europe's largest budget airline have threatened a U.K.-based Web site with legal action if it didn't take down comments pertaining to Ryanair's pilots?
O'Leary has been one of the most combative CEOs to ever run a public company. He has launched abuse-ridden tirades against critics, airports, competitors and regulators. In July, he called the company that runs Stansted airport outside London a "bunch of overcharging rapists." Back in January, O'Leary labeled as "Stalinist" a European Union ruling that one of Ryanair's airport deals was anticompetitive.
But despite his penchant for dishing out insults and criticism, he doesn't seem able to tolerate any brickbats thrown his way. When the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, a Web forum popular with Europe-based pilots, posted a discussion thread containing a mixture of informed insights and raucous comments on Ryanair's relations with its pilots, the company's lawyers sent the Web site a letter demanding that it take down the thread. Howrey Europe, a law firm acting on behalf of Ryanair, sent the letter to PPruNe, as the Web site calls itself, on Aug. 24.
The letter argued that the statements on the thread were "untrue, unfounded, malicious and deeply damaging to the good name and trading reputation of Ryanair." The letter added that Ryanair would move to gain an "immediate injunction" against PPruNe and claim damages if the Web site didn't remove the thread, which discussed pilot unionization and pilot pay -- hot button issues for Ryanair right now.
PPruNe removed the thread, but a new thread has appeared on the Web site concerning unionization at Ryanair. Ryanair didn't immediately comment when asked why it acted to remove the thread. PPruNe owner Danny Fyne said: "Tactics like this never work in the long term. If we didn't publish it, someone else would."
After an earnings warning in January, Ryanair stock has been languishing and its ADRs are nearly 50% below their 52-week high. Wednesday they fell 38 cents to $30.43.
O'Leary has massively underestimated the harshness of competition in the European budget airline sector. Fares have slumped at a time when Ryanair was bringing on a huge number of new planes. That problem wasn't helped by the fact that Ryanair flies to many cheap, out-of-the-way airports that there is insufficient demand for. And after one of Ryanair's cheap deals with a remote airport was judged by the EU to break its competition laws, investors now wonder how many other airport deals may also become invalid.
To revive its fortunes, Ryanair has been doing all it can to cut costs and boost revenue. One sensible-seeming cost-cutting move is the fitting of non-reclining seats. But one move that is generating criticism, both among customers and in the market, is a wheelchair levy on every ticket that Ryanair said it was charging to cover the cost of transporting disabled passengers to and from its planes. The levy appears to still be in place. It's not clear if it is around 70 euro cents or 50 euro cents, but if it is the lower number, the levy accounted for around 22% of the increase in operating profits at Ryanair in its June quarter, compared with the year-ago period.
The wheelchair levy is a clear sign of desperation, but so are moves to cut the most basic of pilots' perks. One measure has Ryanair pilots buying their own uniforms. Cost-cutting ceases to have beneficial effects if it causes a company's best employees to leave. And discontent does seem to be growing. Ryanair management is currently waging a bare-fisted propaganda war to keep pilots from opting for their union to represent them in pay negotiations. In a recent memo, a Ryanair manager at Stansted airport said that paying union dues would amount to a waste of money: "If you want to waste 1,000 pounds we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun," the memo said.
Ryanair can always find inexperienced pilots eager to clock up miles, and it can employ them on a nonsalaried basis. But all airlines need a solid base of experienced pilots to meet aviation regulations and provide training. Ryanair cannot risk an exodus of these. And alleged hardball tactics may cause this to happen. Experienced pilots who need to receive expensive top-up training to fly Ryanair's new series of Boeings have been told that the company won't pay for their training if they opt for union representation, according to a person familiar with employee relations at Ryanair.
To be sure, the PPruNe thread that was taken down contained the sort moronic chatter common on message boards. But it also had some interesting viewpoints, including a calculation by a poster called "St. Savior" that showed that the removal of basic perks could erode the pay rises awarded to certain Ryanair pilots.
What does this mean for investors? Detox's take: Ryanair's revenue outlook must be so lackluster that the company is now trying to silence Web sites as part of an almighty effort to keep costs down.
RealMoney by TheStreet.com
Ryanair Reaching on Web Crackdown
Thursday September 9, 7:03 am ET
By Peter Eavis, Senior Columnist
Discontent among Ryanair's (NasdaqNM:RYAAY - News) pilots must be a source of great concern to the company's chief executive, Michael O'Leary. Why else would Europe's largest budget airline have threatened a U.K.-based Web site with legal action if it didn't take down comments pertaining to Ryanair's pilots?
O'Leary has been one of the most combative CEOs to ever run a public company. He has launched abuse-ridden tirades against critics, airports, competitors and regulators. In July, he called the company that runs Stansted airport outside London a "bunch of overcharging rapists." Back in January, O'Leary labeled as "Stalinist" a European Union ruling that one of Ryanair's airport deals was anticompetitive.
But despite his penchant for dishing out insults and criticism, he doesn't seem able to tolerate any brickbats thrown his way. When the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, a Web forum popular with Europe-based pilots, posted a discussion thread containing a mixture of informed insights and raucous comments on Ryanair's relations with its pilots, the company's lawyers sent the Web site a letter demanding that it take down the thread. Howrey Europe, a law firm acting on behalf of Ryanair, sent the letter to PPruNe, as the Web site calls itself, on Aug. 24.
The letter argued that the statements on the thread were "untrue, unfounded, malicious and deeply damaging to the good name and trading reputation of Ryanair." The letter added that Ryanair would move to gain an "immediate injunction" against PPruNe and claim damages if the Web site didn't remove the thread, which discussed pilot unionization and pilot pay -- hot button issues for Ryanair right now.
PPruNe removed the thread, but a new thread has appeared on the Web site concerning unionization at Ryanair. Ryanair didn't immediately comment when asked why it acted to remove the thread. PPruNe owner Danny Fyne said: "Tactics like this never work in the long term. If we didn't publish it, someone else would."
After an earnings warning in January, Ryanair stock has been languishing and its ADRs are nearly 50% below their 52-week high. Wednesday they fell 38 cents to $30.43.
O'Leary has massively underestimated the harshness of competition in the European budget airline sector. Fares have slumped at a time when Ryanair was bringing on a huge number of new planes. That problem wasn't helped by the fact that Ryanair flies to many cheap, out-of-the-way airports that there is insufficient demand for. And after one of Ryanair's cheap deals with a remote airport was judged by the EU to break its competition laws, investors now wonder how many other airport deals may also become invalid.
To revive its fortunes, Ryanair has been doing all it can to cut costs and boost revenue. One sensible-seeming cost-cutting move is the fitting of non-reclining seats. But one move that is generating criticism, both among customers and in the market, is a wheelchair levy on every ticket that Ryanair said it was charging to cover the cost of transporting disabled passengers to and from its planes. The levy appears to still be in place. It's not clear if it is around 70 euro cents or 50 euro cents, but if it is the lower number, the levy accounted for around 22% of the increase in operating profits at Ryanair in its June quarter, compared with the year-ago period.
The wheelchair levy is a clear sign of desperation, but so are moves to cut the most basic of pilots' perks. One measure has Ryanair pilots buying their own uniforms. Cost-cutting ceases to have beneficial effects if it causes a company's best employees to leave. And discontent does seem to be growing. Ryanair management is currently waging a bare-fisted propaganda war to keep pilots from opting for their union to represent them in pay negotiations. In a recent memo, a Ryanair manager at Stansted airport said that paying union dues would amount to a waste of money: "If you want to waste 1,000 pounds we recommend fast women, slow horses or even greyhound racing. At least you'll have a few minutes of fun," the memo said.
Ryanair can always find inexperienced pilots eager to clock up miles, and it can employ them on a nonsalaried basis. But all airlines need a solid base of experienced pilots to meet aviation regulations and provide training. Ryanair cannot risk an exodus of these. And alleged hardball tactics may cause this to happen. Experienced pilots who need to receive expensive top-up training to fly Ryanair's new series of Boeings have been told that the company won't pay for their training if they opt for union representation, according to a person familiar with employee relations at Ryanair.
To be sure, the PPruNe thread that was taken down contained the sort moronic chatter common on message boards. But it also had some interesting viewpoints, including a calculation by a poster called "St. Savior" that showed that the removal of basic perks could erode the pay rises awarded to certain Ryanair pilots.
What does this mean for investors? Detox's take: Ryanair's revenue outlook must be so lackluster that the company is now trying to silence Web sites as part of an almighty effort to keep costs down.
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Unions is one thing. They have their use.
Another type of action is justice. Bringing Ryanair's management to justice with no tolerance anymore, at the slightest attempt of misconduct, can increase employees strength. Both techniques are complimentary.
It's only sad to have to go to such lengths to get some respect and normal T&Cs while all this could be done peacefully, through negociation and win-win deals.
But I know a number of lawyers who would love to take some FR cases on.
Lawsuits can be triggered by groups and/or individuals.
Another type of action is justice. Bringing Ryanair's management to justice with no tolerance anymore, at the slightest attempt of misconduct, can increase employees strength. Both techniques are complimentary.
It's only sad to have to go to such lengths to get some respect and normal T&Cs while all this could be done peacefully, through negociation and win-win deals.
But I know a number of lawyers who would love to take some FR cases on.
Lawsuits can be triggered by groups and/or individuals.
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I know a number of lawyers who would love to take some FR cases on.
Another problem is that Ryanair staff know how to interpret and decode Ryanair memos, etc. The memo from a middle manager in STN “encouraging” pilots to attend a meeting has been discussed – but not posted on PPRUNE. The feeling abroad is that the memo brought obvious pressure onto STN pilots. BUT, perhaps a non-Ryanair person might not see that memo as being as intimidating as a Ryanair employee? Can somebody post it so that we can have a look?
To change tack slightly, is it not interesting that nobody ever seems to have heard of a Ryanair crewmember being unfit for duty due to fatigue? I don’t have anything on fatigue, but I do have one memo, which I have copied and reproduced below. It concerns staff sickness and has been regularly sent to individual staff members, including those who have a legal obligation not to turn up for work if unfit.
I think a Ryanair employee will know how to interpret this document. Is it also not rather interesting that Ryanair only seems to employ cabin crew that are sick for very few days a year? What excellent selection methods they must have. I am sure that the following memo has nothing to do with it. Here is the memo:
Over the past year over 10,000 days have been lost through absenteeism in RYANAIR; which equates to 7 un-crewed aircraft every day, all year around!!!.
Your attendance record shows that you have been absent from work on 5 occasions during the last 12 months. This high frequency of absence cannot be sustained, as other people within your area have to pick up additional work in your absence.
All absences in the future will be closely monitored and, I need to see a dramatic and sustained improvement in your attendance in the months ahead.
Please confirm receipt of this letter and measures you will take to eliminate further absence from work. If you have any queries on the above please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
Dxxxx XXxxxx
Your attendance record shows that you have been absent from work on 5 occasions during the last 12 months. This high frequency of absence cannot be sustained, as other people within your area have to pick up additional work in your absence.
All absences in the future will be closely monitored and, I need to see a dramatic and sustained improvement in your attendance in the months ahead.
Please confirm receipt of this letter and measures you will take to eliminate further absence from work. If you have any queries on the above please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
Dxxxx XXxxxx
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It's also interesting to hear from crew members who have received the above mentioned memo but have only been sick for one day or even less. Sent to all crew members in order to intimidate them. Hardly fair !
The reason nobody goes sick "due to fatigue" is purely because of the real threat hanging over them if they did. Remember, everyone is on 12 months probation and can be dropped with one weeks notice, but in reality is less. The threat is "go sick - get sacked" but it's called "not coming up to the required standards and therefore as you are on probation, your contract is terminated".......
How many Buzz crew are being threatened into signing a new contract that has already been proved by a lawyer to be "worthless" ?
IMHO - the bubble will burst sooner than we think
St Saviour Interesting last comment. A fuss about nothing hey
The reason nobody goes sick "due to fatigue" is purely because of the real threat hanging over them if they did. Remember, everyone is on 12 months probation and can be dropped with one weeks notice, but in reality is less. The threat is "go sick - get sacked" but it's called "not coming up to the required standards and therefore as you are on probation, your contract is terminated".......
How many Buzz crew are being threatened into signing a new contract that has already been proved by a lawyer to be "worthless" ?
IMHO - the bubble will burst sooner than we think
St Saviour Interesting last comment. A fuss about nothing hey
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May I compliment the writter of the article above for a piece well written specially:
That is such a good point, the biggest buly does not like it that the bullied people have a way of complaining and that he can not reach... Pprune power!! 
The best part is if something goes wrong at RYR in the future that MOL now by formally acknowliging that the thread exists cannot hide and say he was not aware that staff never complained about certain safety issues, labor relations and possible strikes etc etc...
But despite his penchant for dishing out insults and criticism, he doesn't seem able to tolerate any brickbats thrown his way. When the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, a Web forum popular with Europe-based pilots, posted a discussion thread containing a mixture of informed insights and raucous comments on Ryanair's relations with its pilots, the company's lawyers sent the Web site a letter demanding that it take down the thread.
The best part is if something goes wrong at RYR in the future that MOL now by formally acknowliging that the thread exists cannot hide and say he was not aware that staff never complained about certain safety issues, labor relations and possible strikes etc etc...
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Good point Aloue.
Only, things will never begin until they actually begin. Nothing lasts forever. And yes, MOL will have an end. The USSR has finished. Back in time, I never thought it would. Well it did.
You think people will never dare to act. They actually will at some point : in 1 month, 3 months, 12 or 36. A change WILL happen and it will be very dark times for MOL and his followers.
Only, things will never begin until they actually begin. Nothing lasts forever. And yes, MOL will have an end. The USSR has finished. Back in time, I never thought it would. Well it did.
You think people will never dare to act. They actually will at some point : in 1 month, 3 months, 12 or 36. A change WILL happen and it will be very dark times for MOL and his followers.
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Did anyone else see O'Leary on CNBC this morning?
Lots of pointed questions about union representation, "fast women and horses" and reference to a certain website.....
The City (and by "City", I mean not just London but Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt as well....cities who's burghers are already uneasy about O'Leary's bombast) is gradually waking up to this one.....arch capitalists we may be to the core, but if we see a company with an unhappy workforce, it usually spells deeper troubles....
Lots of pointed questions about union representation, "fast women and horses" and reference to a certain website.....
The City (and by "City", I mean not just London but Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt as well....cities who's burghers are already uneasy about O'Leary's bombast) is gradually waking up to this one.....arch capitalists we may be to the core, but if we see a company with an unhappy workforce, it usually spells deeper troubles....
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Is it the same Tony Blair at the TUC conference this afternoon speaking about the absolute right of employees to choose union representation in the workplace who also chose to fly Ryanair a couple of weeks ago coming home from his "holiday" in Pisa?
Does'nt he read pprune?
Does'nt he read pprune?
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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The letter copied by Aloue was interesting. As far as I am aware it is an offence to fly when sick and most, if not all Airline’s Operations Manuals make that clear. I would have thought that by now the IAA should be considering whether the person who wrote the letter is a fit a proper person to be in a Management position. If not it will reflect very poorly on the IAA and its commitment to flight safety.
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sky9,
I feel that it may fall on deaf ears. The current opinion of employers seem to be that casual sickness is on the rise and is becoming a problem. A major UK supermarket chain recently introduced a policy of deducting wages for sickness (endorsed by the union as well!). And I heard today that York council are introducing a policy wereby employees have to call a nurse when they report sick, on the basis that they can receive expert medical assistance for their ailments. Some would argue that a nurse is more qualified to judge whether someone is swinging the lead than a manager would be! As long as this opinion pervades, their will be an element of suspicion about anybody reporting sick for duty.
I feel that it may fall on deaf ears. The current opinion of employers seem to be that casual sickness is on the rise and is becoming a problem. A major UK supermarket chain recently introduced a policy of deducting wages for sickness (endorsed by the union as well!). And I heard today that York council are introducing a policy wereby employees have to call a nurse when they report sick, on the basis that they can receive expert medical assistance for their ailments. Some would argue that a nurse is more qualified to judge whether someone is swinging the lead than a manager would be! As long as this opinion pervades, their will be an element of suspicion about anybody reporting sick for duty.
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Spot on Big Tudor
Add to that, the fact that BA can actually chart the 'sickness' ratio coincident with notable events such as the World Cup, Olympics, and all manner of other events!
I'm reliably imformed that there was much correlation!
Add to that, the fact that BA can actually chart the 'sickness' ratio coincident with notable events such as the World Cup, Olympics, and all manner of other events!
I'm reliably imformed that there was much correlation!
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Jack, if what you're saying is true, I find it very sad as this is having a very negative impact on all employees. This is throwing discredit on a majority of honnest employees.
However, I feel this letter is the expression of a serious midconduct from management as the employee is being considered as a liar prior to any other sort of consideration. I have been sick twice this year. Once for one day, once for two days. I could not even have started an engine or analysed a met report properly.
However, I feel this letter is the expression of a serious midconduct from management as the employee is being considered as a liar prior to any other sort of consideration. I have been sick twice this year. Once for one day, once for two days. I could not even have started an engine or analysed a met report properly.
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It is undoubtedly true that organisations can track sickness rates as Jack has said. It is equally true that those working irregular hours and weekends are more prone to the kind of correlations to which Jack refers. It is also true that certain “spikes” in sickness rates are sometimes so remarkable as to strain belief.
However, note that Jack does not specify that he is talking about pilots. Some pilots, particularly younger pilots, may indeed show some tendency to the same syndrome. However, the available evidence suggests that of all the employee groups in any given company the pilots have by far the lowest incidence of such statistically interesting behaviour. (The general incidence of the syndrome may vary from company to company, but that is another subject).
The point is that for as long as pilots have a legal obligation to be fit for duty they must in the first instance be given the benefit of any doubt.
What we have started to do here is drift from the subject, which is the impact of the Ryanair culture on the willingness of pilots (and cabin crew for that matter) to turn up for duty in a fit state. The consensus seems to be that the impact of the Ryanair culture is not favourable to making such decisions. (Which, if you wish, can be taken to be a tactful way of say it is blindingly obvious to everyone except Ryanair management, the CAA, the IAA and some PPRuNe posters).
However, note that Jack does not specify that he is talking about pilots. Some pilots, particularly younger pilots, may indeed show some tendency to the same syndrome. However, the available evidence suggests that of all the employee groups in any given company the pilots have by far the lowest incidence of such statistically interesting behaviour. (The general incidence of the syndrome may vary from company to company, but that is another subject).
The point is that for as long as pilots have a legal obligation to be fit for duty they must in the first instance be given the benefit of any doubt.
What we have started to do here is drift from the subject, which is the impact of the Ryanair culture on the willingness of pilots (and cabin crew for that matter) to turn up for duty in a fit state. The consensus seems to be that the impact of the Ryanair culture is not favourable to making such decisions. (Which, if you wish, can be taken to be a tactful way of say it is blindingly obvious to everyone except Ryanair management, the CAA, the IAA and some PPRuNe posters).