The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
So the Irish CG won't need UK mil SAR to do jobs more than 160nm West of Ireland any more
To be fair crab.... It should be Uk not uk Mil.... As coastguard aircraft have been down west of Ireland a few times too.... But I believe they should have the same rage as we have now as they are getting our aircraft.
Lion - yes, fair point
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MP fights to save Portland
A copy of Richard Drax's complete report to the Transport Select Committee
Save the Portland Helicopter | Richard Drax
In light of the DfT's recent troubles, this isn't going to help!
Save the Portland Helicopter | Richard Drax
In light of the DfT's recent troubles, this isn't going to help!
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The proposal is that cover for the Portland area will now be provided by 'alternate' helicopters at Lee on Solent, and Culdrose in Cornwall. Flying time from Lee on Solent is about 20 minutes and Culdrose, 40 minutes.
Interesting that the report completely ignores the proximity of Chivenor in its calculations - much closer than Culdrose - and the fact that Brixham is actually in the Chivenor patch.
The only reason Chiv doesn't do more jobs in S Devon is that the CG are very protective of their 'own' asset and will always call Portland first.
I think their use of '25% of the callouts are in the Solent Portland area' is disingenuous and I suspect it is a statistic only valid when considering the 4 CG flights rather than the full 12 UK SAR flights. I also expect that the lions share of South Coast callouts goes to Solent rather than Portland.
However, I do sympathise since it is the same flawed logic that was used to try and justify closing Chivenor and assumed that Culdrose and Valley could provide equal cover from a long way away.
Never mind, it looks as if we will be getting the 189 now AW has played its 'jobs in the SW' card and another SAR helicopter with a totally inadequate cabin will be foisted on UK SAR crews because it is cheaper.
The only reason Chiv doesn't do more jobs in S Devon is that the CG are very protective of their 'own' asset and will always call Portland first.
I think their use of '25% of the callouts are in the Solent Portland area' is disingenuous and I suspect it is a statistic only valid when considering the 4 CG flights rather than the full 12 UK SAR flights. I also expect that the lions share of South Coast callouts goes to Solent rather than Portland.
However, I do sympathise since it is the same flawed logic that was used to try and justify closing Chivenor and assumed that Culdrose and Valley could provide equal cover from a long way away.
Never mind, it looks as if we will be getting the 189 now AW has played its 'jobs in the SW' card and another SAR helicopter with a totally inadequate cabin will be foisted on UK SAR crews because it is cheaper.
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Never mind, it looks as if we will be getting the 189 now AW has played its 'jobs in the SW' card and another SAR helicopter with a totally inadequate cabin will be foisted on UK SAR crews because it is cheaper
Dream on Mr Crab M8 I don't think its something that you should worry to much about
because I don't think you will feature in their** plans when they start looking through CV's. ** thankyou Fareastdriver for pointing out my spelling mistake
Last edited by Rescue1; 21st Nov 2012 at 11:23.
Another valuable and useful post rescue1 - well done
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Scrambled Doc?
Sorry Doc, not ALL scrambles are via ARCC. The MCA directly task their assets with some requested taskings through Kinloss.
Rescue1- give Crab a break, even though he is a Civie/RN basher, he knows the writing is on the wall and is patiently waiting in the line(albeit near the back ) to get his hands on an AW189
Rescue1- give Crab a break, even though he is a Civie/RN basher, he knows the writing is on the wall and is patiently waiting in the line(albeit near the back
) to get his hands on an AW189
Doc I know that Portland are regularly tasked directly by Portland CG, which is one reason Chiv gets so few jobs in S Devon which is, as far as the ARCCK are concerned, Chivenors patch. There will always be overlap of SAR boundaries and Portland are often tasked to Burnham or Weston if Chiv is on another job or the wind favours Portland.
Just last night I did a job in Culdrose's patch because we were airborne when the job came in so the response time was quicker - that is how the ARCCK works but only if they get told about the job first - if a CG launches their own helo first and then tells the ARCCK, then it is not a surprise that Portland get more jobs.
It is difficult to know just how the jobs share goes with the CG flts because we don't have visibility of their call outs.
As for 189 - this is a rumour network after all
There still won't be enough room in the cabin for an ECMO incubator though
Just last night I did a job in Culdrose's patch because we were airborne when the job came in so the response time was quicker - that is how the ARCCK works but only if they get told about the job first - if a CG launches their own helo first and then tells the ARCCK, then it is not a surprise that Portland get more jobs.
It is difficult to know just how the jobs share goes with the CG flts because we don't have visibility of their call outs.
As for 189 - this is a rumour network after all
There still won't be enough room in the cabin for an ECMO incubator though
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Potkettle.com there Crabbington. ARCCK regularly task RAF assets into other unit's 'patches' despite them not being the best option. Why? Only the controllers know the answer but I did speak to one a few months back who was completely misinformed about the speed, range and capability of the MCA assets and he was on duty at the time....
When I informed him that on a still wind day a certain north western based S92 would be quickest to the Ben he was fairly surprised.
When I informed him that on a still wind day a certain north western based S92 would be quickest to the Ben he was fairly surprised.
I'm not saying the ARCCK controllers are error free - sometimes it is a function of not having aircrew with SAR experience in there any more.
However, they don't deliberately task RAF assets into MCA patches just to pi** you off, there will generally be a good reason, whether it is to do with weather, availability of MRT or doctors, likelihood of the job extending into night (esp in the mountains) or a whole host of other reasons.
It might be just to preserve your asset in your area or, as I mentioned in the previous post, because the RAF asset is already airborne and will have a faster reaction time (despite your superior speed of flight).
We all love to poach each other's jobs but get the ARCCK to update their information if you think it is wrong.
However, they don't deliberately task RAF assets into MCA patches just to pi** you off, there will generally be a good reason, whether it is to do with weather, availability of MRT or doctors, likelihood of the job extending into night (esp in the mountains) or a whole host of other reasons.
It might be just to preserve your asset in your area or, as I mentioned in the previous post, because the RAF asset is already airborne and will have a faster reaction time (despite your superior speed of flight).
We all love to poach each other's jobs but get the ARCCK to update their information if you think it is wrong.
I beleive that is why the ARCC isn't going anywhere soon. It might even combine forces with the MCA at Fareham in the new future. The ARCC is unique in Europe, probably the world. Long may it last.
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Ha Ha Crab...Is it you or the AW189 that is "totally unacceptable". You should be congratulated on your simplistic wind up efforts. I cannot imagine such a sweeping assertion is really what you believe.
The present AW139 does more than an adequate job in most circumstances for UK SAR, although no one is likely to agree that the cabin is the perfect size! But then what do I know... never operated the thing! The 189, if in fact it is being offered, seems to me to be an excellent aircraft to be useful in the majority of UK SAR rescues.
If I understand it right, half the new service will have an S92 sized aircraft, so on the few occasions such a sized aircraft is essential, then there will be more than enough to go round.
As for your incubator thingy, I am wondering how often that gets carried, and whether the taxpayer should be asked to spend millions more for such circumstances. A better approach might be the NHS providing suitable sized incubators at a sensible price rather than wasting millions on much larger aircraft than is needed for most call outs.
The present AW139 does more than an adequate job in most circumstances for UK SAR, although no one is likely to agree that the cabin is the perfect size! But then what do I know... never operated the thing!
The 189, if in fact it is being offered, seems to me to be an excellent aircraft to be useful in the majority of UK SAR rescues. If I understand it right, half the new service will have an S92 sized aircraft, so on the few occasions such a sized aircraft is essential, then there will be more than enough to go round.
As for your incubator thingy, I am wondering how often that gets carried, and whether the taxpayer should be asked to spend millions more for such circumstances. A better approach might be the NHS providing suitable sized incubators at a sensible price rather than wasting millions on much larger aircraft than is needed for most call outs.
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As for previous comments on Portland MRCC tasking their own helicopter, yes the may scramble their own helicopter but this is always followed by a call to Kinloss and 10 times out of 10 the ARCC will agree that the 139 is the best asset to use and that they are to continue to proceed.
The above rule can be applied to the likes of Stornoway and Shetland.
As for previous comments on Portland MRCC tasking their own helicopter, yes the may scramble their own helicopter but this is always followed by a call to Kinloss and 10 times out of 10 the ARCC will agree that the 139 is the best asset to use and that they are to continue to proceed.
4th right - your ignorance of the incubator thingy tells me all I need to know about your SAR knowledge and how under-qualified you are to make comment on the suitability of a cabin for UK SAR. If all you have experienced is winching one or 2 people out of the water or off a deck then I am sure you will view the 139 as suitable - how many inland/ mountain jobs has the 139 completed?
The 139 doesn't carry MRT, MIRG, 2 stretchers plus a doctor, hovers 8 degrees nose up and has all the SAR kit stuffed down the tail because there isn't room in the cabin and is awful on sloping ground due to poor clearances. What will change with the 189? Yes they both go fast but for the most part that isn't what SAR is about.