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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

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The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

Old 26th Feb 2011, 21:39
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Question The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

SAR-H seems dead and buried (or at least in the coffin on the way to the funeral), so where now?

Carsonise the SK?

Merlin: suitability/cost?

Keep going as a Mil service?

Civilianise the lot?

Mil/Civ to share?

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Old 26th Feb 2011, 23:07
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There are only four certainties in life.

1. Death
2. Taxes
3. The cockpit will be awesome
4. The back end will be a bag of sh1te
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 08:49
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VSF, you forgot

5. Nurses
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 12:52
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pcd move to 3 at least
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Old 28th Feb 2011, 00:02
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PCB 5,nurses??what SAR unit you been too lately
neither mil or civ have nurses on board,just hairy ar$ed rear crew.
no offense
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 09:42
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Will the RAF SDSR today reveal or hint to anything?
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 10:21
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Parliament today:

Main Chamber:

1430 - Deputy Prime Ministers Questions

Westminster Hall:

11:00am - 12:30pmSir Alan Beith Future provision of helicopters and crew for the Search and Rescue Service
12:30pm - 1:00pmAngus Robertson UK military basing review
Just stole this quote from the military redundancy thread..... will be interesting to see what Sir Alan has to say?

edited to add that you can watch this live or later on Parliament Live TV » home in the Westminster Hall player
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 11:14
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Top gen calli. Thanks
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Old 16th Mar 2011, 18:09
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Info Only

Type of document: Contract Notice
Country: United Kingdom

Competitive Contract Notice

1. Title: GB-YEOVIL: The Sea King Project Team has a possible requirement for the provision of Management Assistance & Support at its offices in Yeovil
2. Awarding Authority:
Sea King (SK), DE&S
Sea King Project Team, Agusta Westland Helicopters, Box 50, Lysander Road, Yeovil, BA20 2YB, GB

3. Contract Type: SERVICES
4. Description: Helicopters. The Sea King Project team has a possible requirement for the provision of Management Assistance and Support to carry out the following tasks at its offices in Yeovil, Somerset.

Life Extension Programme technical assistance and embodiment management.
Sea King Integrated Operational Support re-evaluation.
Bifilar Vibration Absorber technical assistance.
UOR sustainment planning.
Search and Rescue Life Extension Programme study.

Quality Standard Requirement: ISO 9001

5. CPV Codes:
34711500 - Helicopters.

6. NUTS Codes :
UKK23 - Somerset

7. Main Site or Location of Works, Main Place of Delivery or Main Place of Performance: Somerset,
8. Reference Attributed by the Awarding Authority: SKC/0191
9. Estimated Value of Requirement: Category H1: 93K - 685K GBP
10. Deadline for Expression of Interest: 29/03/2011
11. Address to which they must be sent:
Sea King (SK), DE&S
Sea King Project Team, Agusta Westland Helicopters, Box 50, Lysander Road, Yeovil, BA20 2YB, GB

12. Other Information: Not Provided
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Old 17th Mar 2011, 16:37
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2 year extension on the cards. "Son of Interim SAR" seems to be developing nicely.
I understand the MCA will take full possession of the product in completion?

Q: What is the need/point/purpose of upgrading mothballed seakings to carson/bifilar status - anyone? UK SAR doesn't fly hot or high?????

Lick of paint / Iphone with integral GPS / welded undercarriage - away the lads
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Old 17th Mar 2011, 18:22
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Lick of paint / Iphone with integral GPS / welded undercarriage - away the lads
Come on the s92 isn't that bad !
Old 17th Mar 2011, 19:14
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Sea King LEP flown by civvy contracted aircrew managed by MCA...
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Old 23rd Mar 2011, 15:12
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As a first time poster but long time reader I am unashamedly self-interested here, but if SW is right and there's an option for civvy aircrew to be trained into winchman/winchop role does anyone have any idea what the pay would be like or how/where/when they'd advertise?

Just wondering, cheers for any replies
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Old 23rd Mar 2011, 22:40
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If CHC are postioning a couple of AS332L2 in the Falklands to take over an oil and gas contract from Brintel S-61s, does that mean that there is a ready civil option to free a couple of Sea Kings from there for the UK?

Last edited by zalt; 23rd Mar 2011 at 23:20.
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Old 23rd Mar 2011, 23:25
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Funny, in Ireland, there are questions from one Minister of State on why they are getting 4 'knackered' S-92's cast off from the Brits!
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Old 23rd Mar 2011, 23:40
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"Knackered S92s" ?

Because they will be better than the totally knackered/obsolete S61s !

ergo: Knackered = less than 2,000hrs total flight time plus upgrades to IrishSAR requirements ?

Wonder how many hours are on the machines you are flying in Zalt?

I'd be surprised if there were any S61s with less than 20,000 hrs let alone 2,000hrs.

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Old 24th Mar 2011, 00:14
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Chill - I was joking about them being knackered!

This is what is being said in the Irish Times:

Minister of State for the NewEra energy and utility plan Fergus O’Dowd, who is a former Fine Gael transport spokesman, says he intends to raise the issue of the State’s €500 million contract for search and rescue helicopters with Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar this week.

Mr O’Dowd said there appeared to be “significant questions to answer” over the €500 million deal signed by former transport minister Noel Dempsey last year.

The plan to provide a “new generation” of Sikorsky S-92 helicopters for the Irish Coast Guard from 2012 to 2022 hinged on a contract already agreed in Britain with Soteria to privatise its search and rescue service there.
The contract will involve replacing ageing Sikorsky S-61 helicopters flown by CHC for the Irish Coast Guard with one new and four second-hand Sikorsky S-92 helicopters.

The transfer of the four second-hand Sikorskys, based in Scotland, had been tied into the British privatisation contract timeline. The Department of Transport told The Irish Times this week it had “no reason to believe that the contract will not be fully transitioned by the end of 2013 as allowed for”.

A new Sikorsky S-92A due for delivery to Shannon in December of this year is being built in the US, it has said, and the first milestone payment had been paid as part of the contract terms.

Mr O’Dowd is particularly concerned about the decision not to opt for a fleet of new helicopters, given that the quoted price did not appear to be significantly higher, and he is also focusing on the decision to exclude the Air Corps.
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Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:29
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only one sea king there with the RAF. so how will that help?
Now come on, don't be a dunderhead!

Bring back both Sea Kings from the FI...use these aircraft at one of the bases vacated by the S-92s...that means you only need to drag two Sea Kings out of storage to use at the other S-92 flight, and the S-92 issue is covered...as for the 139s down south, they could be replaced if need be by the ex-Irish S-61s.


On a slightly less facetious note, bringing back the aircraft from the Falklands would give more fat in the system while the fleet goes through the mooted LEP. But losing two aircraft from the Falkland Islands Air Wing's grand total of 8 would surely require a re-branding...six aircraft is barely a squadron's worth, so how about we just call it the Falklands Air Flight?
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Old 25th Mar 2011, 09:03
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Coastguard helicopter fears
David Ross Highland Correspondent

Share 25 Mar 2011

The union that represents Coastguard staff has warned ministers they must act before the service loses its helicopters.

The Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS), which represents Government agency staff such as the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA), was reacting after it emerged the operator of the UK’s four coastguard helicopters will begin withdrawing the aircraft next year.

However, there are no plans yet to replace them and industry sources warn time is already running out to find alternatives.

The Herald has learned that the CHC Helicopter company is committed to relocating the four helicopters, currently under contract to the Coastguard in the UK, to Ireland.

It is due to start a €500 million (£437m) contract for search-and-rescue services for the Irish Coastguard in July next year that will run for 10 years, with an option for a further three years.

The Canadian company based its tender for the Irish contract on using the four helicopters currently under contract to the MCA. These are based at Stornoway (Lewis) and Sumburgh (Shetland) as well as at Solent and Portland Coastguard stations in England.

Sumburgh will be the first to go in July 2012 and the last Portland in April 2013.

A new private operator had been due to be in place before then. However, the collapse of the £6 billion privatisation of the UK’s search-and-rescue helicopters last month now means there is no new operator contracted to replace CHC.

While the same is true for the two military search-and-rescue helicopter bases in Scotland, HMS Gannet at Prestwick in Ayrshire and RAF Lossiemouth in Moray (still under threat of closure), they can continue in the meantime. However, there is no such option for the Coastguard helicopters.

A CHC spokesman confirmed it was preparing to withdraw the helicopters contracted to the MCA. He said: “CHC continues to service the UK Interim SAR (search-and-rescue) contract until 2012. At the expiration of the UK Interim SAR contract, four S-92A aircraft will move to Ireland to begin service there. This will be a phased project ending in 2013.

“To date there has been no revision or extension of the Interim SAR contract, therefore there is no plan to replace those aircraft in Scotland.”

However, CHC would be keen to talk to the UK Government about continued coverage.

The MCA directed inquiries to the Department for Transport where a spokesman said: “Ministers are now considering their options with regards future search-and-rescue cover and will provide an update in due course.”

One helicopter pilot who has been flying in Scotland for almost 30 years, mostly in a rescue capacity, said he was astonished.

He said: “Everybody just assumed that CHC would carry on. The Government really doesn’t have much time to get this fixed.

“Normally you are talking about a lead-in time of at least 18 months for a new contract like this. There really have to be two-and-a-half crews for each aircraft – one on, one off and one half for leave cover.

“You have got to find these crews, interview them and train them for whatever aircraft that is going to be used.”

Jeremy Gautrey, PCS negotiations officer, said: “The shambolic end to the tendering process that resulted in the Government having to retender has now potentially left the Coastguard service stranded without the guarantee that it will have sufficient helicopters to carry out search-and-rescue operations when the current helicopters retire.

“PCS is calling on the Government to ensure that the Coastguard continues to have at its disposal sufficient helicopters to mount successful search-and-rescue operations until a new contract is signed and in place.”
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Old 25th Mar 2011, 11:44
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Perhaps all those people who have had a go at Crab may now have to be nice to him if he is involved in recruiting Reserve Aircrew to man the revamped Seakings in Scotland!!

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