UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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Sorry Budgie but I do not agree with police traffic cars or helicopters chasing stolen cars. Cars are low value in the UK compared to other parts of the world.
High end stolen cars are not being taken by yobbos on estates such as Corby or Kirby.
There is more important social crime such as drug dealing and drug dependancy
that is funded by most burglaries and petty theft. Until drugs are made legal for addicts we will never stop the dog chasing the tail.
Let me stress again I am not anti police helicopters I just want the resource used responsibly.
High end stolen cars are not being taken by yobbos on estates such as Corby or Kirby.
There is more important social crime such as drug dealing and drug dependancy
that is funded by most burglaries and petty theft. Until drugs are made legal for addicts we will never stop the dog chasing the tail.
Let me stress again I am not anti police helicopters I just want the resource used responsibly.
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Phil, you come across as a bigoted and stupid old fool, just read some of the drivel you have written, and just in one post.
By qualified do you mean hours or years?
work well within the parameters of being a driver
I am not upset about public sector pilots anymore than other public employees
when it comes to spending other people money its easy to fire up and fly.
I've got no argument with how any pilot gets to make a living out of flying but having spent quite a bit of time over the years with both army and RAF I've come to the conclusion the boys in brown often need an extra chip detector for the shoulders. In the 202 Sqn they used to joke about "where do chopper pilots go when they fail....Middle Wallop".
Commercial pilots never get to choose how why when and where they go. Someone else does that and they do the driving and get paid.
How easy is it to fly alone long distance? Well let me ask you if you have ever flown on your own for 5 or 6 hours where you have chosen when and where to go? Long boring legs across the desert with one engine and no radio contact?
How easy is it to fly alone long distance? Well let me ask you if you have ever flown on your own for 5 or 6 hours where you have chosen when and where to go? Long boring legs across the desert with one engine and no radio contact?
I can tell you that there is a great deal of risk for a fixed wing pilot flying across the water to Jersey. As for workload try hand flying an instrument approach in a Piper PA32 with a 20 knot crosswind in poor vis in to Jersey at night and a u/s autopilot
I learnt on the little piece of sh*t that is called the R22.
Phil
You're still not making sense - if you think car crime is not connected in any way to drug use and burglary then you're wrong.
If an officer requests that a vehicle stops and it fails to do so then you have to ask why; is it because it's stolen or is it any number of a hundred other reasons? You don't know until it stops.
As I pointed out a long time ago chasing cars is a very small percentage of real ASU use, it happens a lot on the telly because it makes good telly, that's the only reason.
I'm going to give up on this now and go and explain calculus to our dog, it'll be easier (and I'm not even going to pick the smarter dog).
You're still not making sense - if you think car crime is not connected in any way to drug use and burglary then you're wrong.
If an officer requests that a vehicle stops and it fails to do so then you have to ask why; is it because it's stolen or is it any number of a hundred other reasons? You don't know until it stops.
As I pointed out a long time ago chasing cars is a very small percentage of real ASU use, it happens a lot on the telly because it makes good telly, that's the only reason.
I'm going to give up on this now and go and explain calculus to our dog, it'll be easier (and I'm not even going to pick the smarter dog).
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Hi Phil,
I am not prepared to get into a public pi$$ing match here about what we have done and where. As I have already said, you are more than welcome to visit our unit to see for yourself what actually goes on in this business and if you wish I will bring my log book in for you to look through.
To go through your points,
I didn't say qualified pilots I said, "more qualified and experienced pilots than yourself".
Your profile says;
'Licence Type:
PPL (A) & (H)
Therefore, every Police pilot is in fact more qualified than you are and, (clearly you would argue the point), IMO more experienced.
Where have I slagged off private pilots or owners? It's simply not true and if you knew me you would realise this.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare money on flying ...
You must understand that these TV programmes are just that, straight from the lie box. The problem is, and it seems you might not be the only one
, that you have looked at one force on the TV and compared the rest of the countries units to that. 
What utter rubbish! When you visit us, we can cover this in depth.
Not quite sure what the bit about the Army chip detector is about.
It seems to me that you could be a SAR wanabee/walt or that you simply failed selection.
I must admit, I've never heard the remark;
It would seem strange that a Pilot Offr or Sub Lt having failed a wings course would then go to to MW, even after a possible time bar. Besides, why is it just said in that Sqn?
Sounds like there could be a bit of a stretching of licence privileges going on here 
You may be surprised. However, I was always told to stay in the same country
I've only been flying for 26 years Phil, so you have 4 years on me. As I have always done, I will respect the experience of others and listen to your contributions. Every day is a learning day.
I am not prepared to get into a public pi$$ing match here about what we have done and where. As I have already said, you are more than welcome to visit our unit to see for yourself what actually goes on in this business and if you wish I will bring my log book in for you to look through.
To go through your points,
I didn't say qualified pilots I said, "more qualified and experienced pilots than yourself".
Your profile says;
'Licence Type:
PPL (A) & (H)
Therefore, every Police pilot is in fact more qualified than you are and, (clearly you would argue the point), IMO more experienced.
Where have I slagged off private pilots or owners? It's simply not true and if you knew me you would realise this.
Just because I choose not to spend my spare money on flying ...
You must understand that these TV programmes are just that, straight from the lie box. The problem is, and it seems you might not be the only one
, that you have looked at one force on the TV and compared the rest of the countries units to that.
Most cars are not stolen to re-sell but by young yobs trying to get the police traffic units and helicopters involved in a real version of Grand Theft Auto
Not quite sure what the bit about the Army chip detector is about.
It seems to me that you could be a SAR wanabee/walt or that you simply failed selection.
I must admit, I've never heard the remark;
In the 202 Sqn we used to joke about "where do chopper pilots go when they fail....Middle Wallop".
Pre-planned? Do you think private fixed and rotary pilots spend days working out where to go? It's often on a whim and many a time I've just dropped in somewhere for lunch.It might sound nice but UK weather changes quickly as you know.
How many hours have you ever flown where you have total control on where and why you go?
I've only been flying for 26 years Phil, so you have 4 years on me. As I have always done, I will respect the experience of others and listen to your contributions. Every day is a learning day.
Tightgit
Traffic police and ASU have been drawn in to this game that bored kids on council estates play.
I doubt there is any police pilot on here that has not been involved in a stolen car chase with youngsters on council estates.
I doubt there is any police pilot on here that has not been involved in a stolen car chase with youngsters on council estates.
Today (and for about the last 5 years in particular), you are absolutely wrong. 'Joyriding' has almost completely tailed off in this neck of the woods. We do get involved in a small way with 'boy racers', who tend to drive their own cars. But just about all of our 'pursuits' (and there are far fewer of those these days), involve serious criminals.
handy
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Handy, it is a very interesting point about the curtailment of pursuits. Do you have any statistics that give the number of pursuits on, lets say a 6 monthly basis for the past 10 years. It would be interesting to compare.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Try flying a single engine aircraft VFR from Wales to Jersey at night ...
I can tell you that there is a great deal of risk for a fixed wing pilot flying across the water to Jersey. As for workload try hand flying an instrument approach in a Piper PA32 with a 20 knot crosswind in poor vis in to Jersey at night and a u/s autopilot
3 letters beginning with...
#1 - 'A' for Air
#2...'N' for .....?
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npas
As this is the police budget cut thread, I thought I'd add the latest cost predictions as given by Clevelands Chief. I have added more to the Cleveland goes it alone thread.
http://www.clevelandpa.org.uk/admin/...e%20Update.pdf
quote "At present it is still believed that by joining the National Air Service, we would be paying £535,000 more than our present budget, for the first 4 or 5 years, and then £300,000 more than our present budget after that. It is also still the intention that we would operate only 20 hours per day, with cover from other forces in the North East. "
North Yorkshire's chief Mr Maxwell is planning lots of work for 2012 for G-CPAS, and has a superintendant already plotting areas of great interest in his county. He's not daft, as he knows it will be all free of charge to his force
North Yorkshire is the largest English county which currently has to pay for neighbouring asu's when required, as the force doesnt have its own helicopter, and sometimes uses the voluntary Skywatch service.
http://www.clevelandpa.org.uk/admin/...e%20Update.pdf
quote "At present it is still believed that by joining the National Air Service, we would be paying £535,000 more than our present budget, for the first 4 or 5 years, and then £300,000 more than our present budget after that. It is also still the intention that we would operate only 20 hours per day, with cover from other forces in the North East. "
North Yorkshire's chief Mr Maxwell is planning lots of work for 2012 for G-CPAS, and has a superintendant already plotting areas of great interest in his county. He's not daft, as he knows it will be all free of charge to his force
North Yorkshire is the largest English county which currently has to pay for neighbouring asu's when required, as the force doesnt have its own helicopter, and sometimes uses the voluntary Skywatch service.
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Sorry Budgie but I do not agree with police traffic cars or helicopters chasing stolen cars.
So they nick more cars, drive with out insurance at which point they drive into you. Or god forbid they collide with a child and they die. Thats ok then is it. Lets have a lawless society that would be much cheaper for the tax payer.So you can spend the extra money you have in your pocket on the extra car insurance because car crime has gone through the roof, on extra house insurance because dwelling burglaries have gone up to get the keys to your car, or you'll jut get mugged because thats ok, you'll be ok getting involved in the crossfire of gang shootings because it has nothing to do with crime or drug sales.
do you have any more pearls of wisdom. (quick search through your dvd collection of police camera action,motorway cops,the bill) Wakey wakey
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They do steal high value cars in Kirkby, or at least INTO Kirby. My next door neighbour had a lad sneak into the house while he was in the living room and steal his keys. It was a sporty car and was found a week later, in Kirkby on false plates. These people are not scallies, they are full-time professional thieves who gun the cars and NEVER give up until they are 'stung' or crash. They deal drugs, burgle, ramraid and are generally 3-man crimewave teams. Why the hell should we not try to stop them? The day that you say we should 'not do' x/y/z is the day to give up and allow any crime to go unpunished. Granted this costs money, but you lose if you ignore crime. Sorry Phil, but your solution is wrong; I know you believe in it, but it is wrong.
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Middle Wallop
In the 202 Sqn they used to joke about "where do chopper pilots go when they fail....Middle Wallop"
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NPAS ideas
Dishforth would make a fine central NPAS base. I'll be there at the front of the line Mr Npas sir.
A few idea's.
1. Let the pilots sit on the panel choosing all the obs, not allow any fine speaches from the prospective chaps on why they should be an obs, just take them for a quick flight and give them a map to find 3 points. If they dont make the grade there and then, show them the door, and tell them from the outset that the pilot is always right, and things will go swimingly
2. Line checks should be given 4 times a year in claggy weather by each pilot so the obs toe the line and make the tea, and to make sure they are always on the ball.
3. BTP asu central command should move them all around the UK to make sure they get to know the UK area so no favouritism is shown to home force areas
4. We had to do it in the military, so start as you mean to go on I say. Start with a clean slate, and ban all overtime, as the pilots cant get it so why should the chaps, its a well abused system from what I've seen over the years.
5. Single crewed is also another fine idea I've seen mentioned on this thread. If the chaps cant hack it in the back there is always footbeat which they were all trained for
One stands back, and waits for all the agreed passengers who are not busy shining their boots to let me know the error of my recruitment and testing ideas.
Onwards and upwards I say Mr Npas. I bet a few drivers agree but darent say it to the obs sat next to them telling them what to do
A few idea's.
1. Let the pilots sit on the panel choosing all the obs, not allow any fine speaches from the prospective chaps on why they should be an obs, just take them for a quick flight and give them a map to find 3 points. If they dont make the grade there and then, show them the door, and tell them from the outset that the pilot is always right, and things will go swimingly
2. Line checks should be given 4 times a year in claggy weather by each pilot so the obs toe the line and make the tea, and to make sure they are always on the ball.
3. BTP asu central command should move them all around the UK to make sure they get to know the UK area so no favouritism is shown to home force areas
4. We had to do it in the military, so start as you mean to go on I say. Start with a clean slate, and ban all overtime, as the pilots cant get it so why should the chaps, its a well abused system from what I've seen over the years.
5. Single crewed is also another fine idea I've seen mentioned on this thread. If the chaps cant hack it in the back there is always footbeat which they were all trained for
One stands back, and waits for all the agreed passengers who are not busy shining their boots to let me know the error of my recruitment and testing ideas.
Onwards and upwards I say Mr Npas. I bet a few drivers agree but darent say it to the obs sat next to them telling them what to do
"He's not daft, as he knows it will be all free of charge to his force"
Props, you really are out of the loop on this. Under NPAS, all, repeat all forces will be top sliced including N.Yorks, Lincs, Cumbria and Kent.
Props, you really are out of the loop on this. Under NPAS, all, repeat all forces will be top sliced including N.Yorks, Lincs, Cumbria and Kent.
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Oh Dear! Having watched all the drivel from PPL Phil, and given it a quiet ignoring to allow others to shoot him down, it's saddening to see Lynx chop in with such (theoretiaclly) professional claptrap. However much you may be trying to wind up the baggage compartment, any old-school Army attitudes surfacing like that at our unit would have you on a CRM refresher p.d.q.
Whilst Pilots views may be under-represented at your Obs selection process, with attitudes like yours, I can understand why. Professional Pilots with appropriate managerial (rather than confrontational) skillls have managed to get their views taken into account by the official (Police) management - and it works much better than it used to before we did!
Whilst Pilots views may be under-represented at your Obs selection process, with attitudes like yours, I can understand why. Professional Pilots with appropriate managerial (rather than confrontational) skillls have managed to get their views taken into account by the official (Police) management - and it works much better than it used to before we did!
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Well dais Zorab. Hammer strikes nail perfectly.
Maybe Phil has hijacked Lynxs posting?
I for one would love to make tea for Lynx that is if he trust me alone in the kitchen with his cup for two minutes!,,
Maybe Phil has hijacked Lynxs posting?
I for one would love to make tea for Lynx that is if he trust me alone in the kitchen with his cup for two minutes!,,
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A bit of humour after reading all the anti Phil threads
CRM ah yes that old chestnut, do as your told by the back seat drivers and you wont go far wrong! Its a shame they cant fly it themselves and all the pilots would be out on their ears, but I've met a few who say they can fly larger a/c on their PS2's 
Its amazing what happens when someone with pips on their shoulders arrives though the door, yes sir, no sir three bags full sir, then its back to the bolshy attitude.
Always make my own tea thank you, as others have said before, its a trust thing.
Was sick of reading the anti phil bashing brigade, it was his personal opinion, let him have his say, others do and we may not agree with it at the time.
NPAS is the best thing to come about in the UK's police avaition world and they should apply it to purchasing cars and vans as well. Less force fleet managers all on £50k+ pa and give one person the job to buy for all forces. Most are ex cops topping up their pensions anyway.
Finally, let me add that I do believe air support is needed in the UK, but it needs to be a NATIONAL setup so any officer in the country can call on it when needed and not limited by force boundaries. How many times have you all sat there (pilots) waiting for someone in supervision from another force wanting a search completed to authorise it!
I've added this video to help raise a smile or 2. Its police related of course, I wonder if they will arm the pilots with tasers one day (crm tasers)
Its amazing what happens when someone with pips on their shoulders arrives though the door, yes sir, no sir three bags full sir, then its back to the bolshy attitude.
Always make my own tea thank you, as others have said before, its a trust thing.
Was sick of reading the anti phil bashing brigade, it was his personal opinion, let him have his say, others do and we may not agree with it at the time.
NPAS is the best thing to come about in the UK's police avaition world and they should apply it to purchasing cars and vans as well. Less force fleet managers all on £50k+ pa and give one person the job to buy for all forces. Most are ex cops topping up their pensions anyway.
Finally, let me add that I do believe air support is needed in the UK, but it needs to be a NATIONAL setup so any officer in the country can call on it when needed and not limited by force boundaries. How many times have you all sat there (pilots) waiting for someone in supervision from another force wanting a search completed to authorise it!
I've added this video to help raise a smile or 2. Its police related of course, I wonder if they will arm the pilots with tasers one day (crm tasers)
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This will be me tonight when I walk through the door no doubt.
Wait till the guy returns to the court room and you'll get the idea
Look for the gag, but will they tazer each other?
Wait till the guy returns to the court room and you'll get the idea
Look for the gag, but will they tazer each other?