UK Police helicopter budget cuts
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Hughes 500
Hughes 500 you make some very valid and balanced points.
Based on the hours flown by Norfolk Police last year of 275 I work that out at around an average .75 of an hour per day flown by the helicopter.Not very cost effective at £2345 per flying hour and I guess a cushy number for the pilots who can sit around for most of the day doing very little.
Reading Silso Sids comments he tries to make himself out as some sort of superhero flying 7 hours a day 5 days a week to protect us from vandals,shoplifters,car thieves and drunk drivers. For most of the petty crime
above the costs of an air support unit do not justify the judicial outcome.
I guess like many of the mostly ex military pilots flying for the police he values the ability to fly the local area in a nice machine instead of flying oilies out to North Sea rigs in all weather with Bonds.
The reality is that major cuts have to be made in the way that public money has been thrown around like confetti for years.
So BUDGIE its your train set and you have to cut the budget, at what percentage cut do you start looking at the helicopter ?
Interestingly silsoe sid has side stepped lots of the points I have put to him, as he obviously is a pilot and only receives a cheque he doesnt have to put his hand in his pocket and just comes up with the argument how good the helicopter is .
I am afraid you and all ASU's will have to defend yourselves very very well if you are to keep the toys. To lots of the public they would prefer to see a pair of size 12's on the beat. To the CC the heli is a big lump of money so is perhaps an easy target for his bean counters, as they are unlikely to ring fence you.
Basically guys welcome to the real world, doesnt matter how good something is, if you cant affod it you cant afford it.
Interestingly silsoe sid has side stepped lots of the points I have put to him, as he obviously is a pilot and only receives a cheque he doesnt have to put his hand in his pocket and just comes up with the argument how good the helicopter is .
I am afraid you and all ASU's will have to defend yourselves very very well if you are to keep the toys. To lots of the public they would prefer to see a pair of size 12's on the beat. To the CC the heli is a big lump of money so is perhaps an easy target for his bean counters, as they are unlikely to ring fence you.
Basically guys welcome to the real world, doesnt matter how good something is, if you cant affod it you cant afford it.
Based on the hours flown by Norfolk Police last year of 275 I work that out at around an average .75 of an hour per day flown by the helicopter.Not very cost effective at £2345 per flying hour and I guess a cushy number for the pilots who can sit around for most of the day doing very little.
Reading Silso Sids comments he tries to make himself out as some sort of superhero flying 7 hours a day 5 days a week to protect us from vandals,shoplifters,car thieves and drunk drivers. For most of the petty crime
above the costs of an air support unit do not justify the judicial outcome.
I guess like many of the mostly ex military pilots flying for the police he values the ability to fly the local area in a nice machine instead of flying oilies out to North Sea rigs in all weather with Bonds.
The reality is that major cuts have to be made in the way that public money has been thrown around like confetti for years.
Ye Olde Pilot
Very true, however all ASU's have criteria that are applied before going on any task. These can be over ridden by "Supervision" usually against the advice of the crews. Sadly the majority of our tasking is looking for suicidal or "confused" mispers. What value can you place on that?
For most of the petty crime
above the costs of an air support unit do not justify the judicial outcome.
above the costs of an air support unit do not justify the judicial outcome.
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Phil, so you give a big thumbs up for redundancies eh?? I guess you know with an attitude like yours you will NEVER get on to an ASU. You have proved your lack of knowledge very well on this topic.
I recently left a UK ASU because I saw the cuts coming. The other pilots also saw the cuts, but they thought the timescale would give them a bit longer to look for a job. You say that Sid is only worried because it will hit him in the pocket. Once again you show great ignorance. OF COURSE we don't want to lose our jobs, only an idiot would, however you fail to understand the type of person who does the job............. Our 4 pilots actually CARED about what they did. They knew when we were wasting time and money flying mickey mouse jobs. We gave constructive feedback, offered sensible alternatives and at times told people they were being stupid. Ultimately though, a management figure would overrule and tell us to get on with it because it would SAVE him valuable time and manpower to go and do what others here want.......... Size 12s on the beat, not out searching for regular mispers who were actually in no danger.
As for that idiot quoting that pilots would lose their 'cushy number' sitting in the crewroom
After 6 months in the job, you run out of enthusiasm for sitting in the crewroom. Personally, the days when I worked the hardest were the best days, others agree. Its not cushy, its mind numbingly boring, so lose that attitude thinking that we love it. We don't, OK???
Finally, back to the main reason for my post. ASUs agree TOTALLY that things could be done better and money can be saved. Many agree that nationalisation is a great idea and that bases could be moved to provide a more efficient force. This is an opportunity to make things brilliant. The theory works and is NOT why the likes of Sid is having a go. The reason for the whinges is that they are getting it wrong!!! Cost cutting is more important than efficiency at this time. You CAN have both, they just have not done it. Nobody thinks that ASUs are too important. Think of this...... If you had a choice to save a wad of cash and have a reduced (but as efficient as possible for the money) service, or save a wad of cash and have a poor service, which would you want????
I recently left a UK ASU because I saw the cuts coming. The other pilots also saw the cuts, but they thought the timescale would give them a bit longer to look for a job. You say that Sid is only worried because it will hit him in the pocket. Once again you show great ignorance. OF COURSE we don't want to lose our jobs, only an idiot would, however you fail to understand the type of person who does the job............. Our 4 pilots actually CARED about what they did. They knew when we were wasting time and money flying mickey mouse jobs. We gave constructive feedback, offered sensible alternatives and at times told people they were being stupid. Ultimately though, a management figure would overrule and tell us to get on with it because it would SAVE him valuable time and manpower to go and do what others here want.......... Size 12s on the beat, not out searching for regular mispers who were actually in no danger.
As for that idiot quoting that pilots would lose their 'cushy number' sitting in the crewroom
After 6 months in the job, you run out of enthusiasm for sitting in the crewroom. Personally, the days when I worked the hardest were the best days, others agree. Its not cushy, its mind numbingly boring, so lose that attitude thinking that we love it. We don't, OK???
Finally, back to the main reason for my post. ASUs agree TOTALLY that things could be done better and money can be saved. Many agree that nationalisation is a great idea and that bases could be moved to provide a more efficient force. This is an opportunity to make things brilliant. The theory works and is NOT why the likes of Sid is having a go. The reason for the whinges is that they are getting it wrong!!! Cost cutting is more important than efficiency at this time. You CAN have both, they just have not done it. Nobody thinks that ASUs are too important. Think of this...... If you had a choice to save a wad of cash and have a reduced (but as efficient as possible for the money) service, or save a wad of cash and have a poor service, which would you want????
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jayteeto
I'm not saying redundancies don't hurt but they come with a package.The other side of the coin is that UK local authorities carry on spending money like it was going out of fashion. The cuts are hitting everyone. A police helicopter at 2.5k an hour is 20% of what a hospital cleaner or care worker earns in a year!
Spending an hour looking for some shoplifting scally in Liverpool or a stolen car in Bootle using a helicopter is not on. Something in the region of 80% of missing persons turn up later.
Which begs the question what is wrong with a new co-ordinated approach?
That is what will happen in the next 18 months/ 2 years.
Silsoe Sid posts make his job sound like Miami Vice.Is the guy working in some crime ridden part of the UK I've never heard? Maybe more likely the scenic part of the west midlands and watching too many action movies
I guess it's the old ex military pilot thing of every flight becoming a mission.
The business model for airlines is the keep the aircraft in the air for the maximum number of hours per day. Expensive air operations of any sort demand the same but when the funds come from the public purse there is no one saying yes or no before getting airborne.
On a final note we are talking about trying to stop the sort of waste of public money that the MOD undertook trying to redesign a 50 year old airframe to the 21st century by committee.Nimrod
Phil, so you give a big thumbs up for redundancies eh?? I guess you know with an attitude like yours you will NEVER get on to an ASU. You have proved your lack of knowledge very well on this topic.
Spending an hour looking for some shoplifting scally in Liverpool or a stolen car in Bootle using a helicopter is not on. Something in the region of 80% of missing persons turn up later.
They knew when we were wasting time and money flying mickey mouse jobs. We gave constructive feedback, offered sensible alternatives and at times told people they were being stupid. Ultimately though, a management figure would overrule and tell us to get on with it because it would SAVE him valuable time and manpower to go and do what others here want.......... Size 12s on the beat, not out searching for regular mispers who were actually in no danger.
That is what will happen in the next 18 months/ 2 years.
After 6 months in the job, you run out of enthusiasm for sitting in the crewroom. Personally, the days when I worked the hardest were the best days, others agree. Its not cushy, its mind numbingly boring, so lose that attitude thinking that we love it. We don't, OK???
I guess it's the old ex military pilot thing of every flight becoming a mission.The business model for airlines is the keep the aircraft in the air for the maximum number of hours per day. Expensive air operations of any sort demand the same but when the funds come from the public purse there is no one saying yes or no before getting airborne.
On a final note we are talking about trying to stop the sort of waste of public money that the MOD undertook trying to redesign a 50 year old airframe to the 21st century by committee.Nimrod
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Phil Space wrote
Pish!
Lots of people say no, not just the crew. there is a chain of command which can & does stop some stupid requests.
.
Expensive air operations of any sort demand the same but when the funds come from the public purse there is no one saying yes or no before getting airborne
Lots of people say no, not just the crew. there is a chain of command which can & does stop some stupid requests.
.
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How Much!!
Phil,
I don't know where you get your figures from but you do show your lack of knowledge with comments like
I don't know where you get your figures from but you do show your lack of knowledge with comments like
A police helicopter at 2.5k an hour
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Ye Old Pilot;
I notice your quote from H500 is from 20 June 2010. If you were to have read beyond that post, you'll find that I replied 26 minutes later with Sorry huesey, didn't realise you had directed questions specifically to me. Please refresh me on what you would like my opinion on.
45 minutes later on 20 June, you will find that I did answer the questions put to me!
Amongst those questions from H500 about D&C (post #73, 7 Dec 2009), liken it to posts about the plan for the Midlands and youll find we are in agreement about the positioning of aircraft
Ye old Pilot;
Try using some figures of units flying 5+ times that amount 
I don't think any of us think ourselves to be superheroes, just doing the job to the best of our abilities. In our units case under the Force mission statement, 'Serving our communities, protecting them from harm.'
If that means us having to fly 7/6 hour days/nights in marginal weather, so be it and you'll be surprised the diversity of tasks we are asked to help with, none of which would be classed as petty by anyone involved.
Mmm, I would challenge you to tell us the number of ex-mil North Sea pilots there are, compared to the number of ex-mil pilots there are flying for the Police. 
Yes Phil, there will be redundancies I'm sure, but even I wouldn't stoop low enough to rub it in peoples faces.
I notice your quote from H500 is from 20 June 2010. If you were to have read beyond that post, you'll find that I replied 26 minutes later with Sorry huesey, didn't realise you had directed questions specifically to me. Please refresh me on what you would like my opinion on.
45 minutes later on 20 June, you will find that I did answer the questions put to me!
Amongst those questions from H500 about D&C (post #73, 7 Dec 2009), liken it to posts about the plan for the Midlands and youll find we are in agreement about the positioning of aircraft
Ye old Pilot;
Based on the hours flown by Norfolk Police last year of 275 ....
I don't think any of us think ourselves to be superheroes, just doing the job to the best of our abilities. In our units case under the Force mission statement, 'Serving our communities, protecting them from harm.'
If that means us having to fly 7/6 hour days/nights in marginal weather, so be it and you'll be surprised the diversity of tasks we are asked to help with, none of which would be classed as petty by anyone involved.
I guess like many of the mostly ex military pilots flying for the police he values the ability to fly the local area in a nice machine instead of flying oilies out to North Sea rigs in all weather with Bonds.
Yes Phil, there will be redundancies I'm sure, but even I wouldn't stoop low enough to rub it in peoples faces.
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I got it from the figures quoted 3 or 4 posts ago by Ye Olde Pilot.
£2345 per flying hour plus I've added £150 an hour for non direct costs
such as the police observer and admin.
Silsoe Sid
That is the old military institutionalism still coming through. I'm sure a nurse
carries the same motivation without the sort of pay and pension a police pilot gets.
Rubbish. You are not flying alone and probably have never had to since you soloed.
Try flying a single engine aircraft VFR from Wales to Jersey at night or across the Bahamas and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.
If you ever get to spend a couple of hours flying a old R22 with a 20 year old kid mustering sheep in the Australian outback you will have a heart attack.
I doubt you have ever flown anything not maintained by the oiks to number 1
Quote:
Quite a lot and many are my friends. A lot of the younger ones leave because of the boredom and convert to flying airliners.
Not at all but I guess you are lucky enough to have a military and civvy flying pension.
There are low paid hospital and council workers further down the food chain not so fortunate .
A little bit of humility and less arrogance would not go amiss
£2345 per flying hour plus I've added £150 an hour for non direct costs
such as the police observer and admin.
Silsoe Sid
I don't think any of us think ourselves to be superheroes, just doing the job to the best of our abilities. In our units case under the Force mission statement, 'Serving our communities, protecting them from harm.'
carries the same motivation without the sort of pay and pension a police pilot gets.
If that means us having to fly 7/6 hour days/nights in marginal weather, so be it and you'll be surprised the diversity of tasks we are asked to help with, none of which would be classed as petty by anyone involved.
Try flying a single engine aircraft VFR from Wales to Jersey at night or across the Bahamas and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.
If you ever get to spend a couple of hours flying a old R22 with a 20 year old kid mustering sheep in the Australian outback you will have a heart attack.
I doubt you have ever flown anything not maintained by the oiks to number 1
Quote:
Mmm, I would challenge you to tell us the number of ex-mil North Sea pilots there are, compared to the number of ex-mil pilots there are flying for the Police.
Yes Phil, there will be redundancies I'm sure, but even I wouldn't stoop low enough to rub it in peoples faces.
There are low paid hospital and council workers further down the food chain not so fortunate .
A little bit of humility and less arrogance would not go amiss
Last edited by Phil Space; 26th Feb 2011 at 10:15.
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"I got it from the figures quoted 3 or 4 posts ago by Ye Olde Pilot.
£2345 per flying hour plus I've added £150 an hour for non direct costs
such as the police observer and admin. "
Excellent work that's two of you who don't know what you're talking about
£2345 per flying hour plus I've added £150 an hour for non direct costs
such as the police observer and admin. "
Excellent work that's two of you who don't know what you're talking about
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Silsoe Sid posts make his job sound like Miami Vice.Is the guy working in some crime ridden part of the UK I've never heard? Maybe more likely the scenic part of the west midlands and watching too many action movies I guess it's the old ex military pilot thing of every flight becoming a mission.
Please tell us your definition of a mission.
I would say it was, thanks to google, something like; 'sending out or being sent out with authority to perform a special service'.
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I always have accepted that cuts have to be made across the board!! Read again please what I said. If cuts are to be made, then make sensible decisions on the cuts! Some of the things that are to be done are wasting money!!
I will take up on your quote that 80% of mispers turn up safe later. Thats way out..... 99.9% turn up safe later. A large majority go missing 2 or 3 times a week, especially from childrens homes. The problem is that the home staff are compelled to report to police. The police are compelled to search for them using all available resources, supervision have been sacked for not doing so. Yes, that is correct, Inspectors and Sergeants sacked because they used their staff to attend crime scenes instead of searching for mispers. So you saying spending an hour looking for x/y/z over Bootle is not on, then what will happen in the future?? A helicopter can do the work of a load of cops, clearing open areas quickly. If you lose the helicopter in some areas, believe me, you will NOT see more size 12s on the beat, they will all be in Bootle looking for some shoplifting scally, stolen car or misper who will turn up later.
What you say makes absolute sense in theory, unfortunately real life is not theory.
PS. Miami Vice is tame compared to some British Inner Cities.
PPS. Every flight IS a mission, in the Air Ambo world we still call them exactly that. , ie we aim to be professional from crew brief to going home.
PPPS. Angry now after reading your changes to post. Easy and we never fly anything difficult? You complete Stroker!! You have no idea you idiot.
JT now retiring angry.
I will take up on your quote that 80% of mispers turn up safe later. Thats way out..... 99.9% turn up safe later. A large majority go missing 2 or 3 times a week, especially from childrens homes. The problem is that the home staff are compelled to report to police. The police are compelled to search for them using all available resources, supervision have been sacked for not doing so. Yes, that is correct, Inspectors and Sergeants sacked because they used their staff to attend crime scenes instead of searching for mispers. So you saying spending an hour looking for x/y/z over Bootle is not on, then what will happen in the future?? A helicopter can do the work of a load of cops, clearing open areas quickly. If you lose the helicopter in some areas, believe me, you will NOT see more size 12s on the beat, they will all be in Bootle looking for some shoplifting scally, stolen car or misper who will turn up later.
What you say makes absolute sense in theory, unfortunately real life is not theory.
PS. Miami Vice is tame compared to some British Inner Cities.
PPS. Every flight IS a mission, in the Air Ambo world we still call them exactly that. , ie we aim to be professional from crew brief to going home.
PPPS. Angry now after reading your changes to post. Easy and we never fly anything difficult? You complete Stroker!! You have no idea you idiot.
JT now retiring angry.
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Silsoe Sid
Nurses,paramedics,ambulance crews,teachers,doctors, etc.
Where do I stop.
Flying a helicopter is not rocket science and you do not need a uni degree.
Flying a turbine helicopter or single engine turboprop is a piece of cake so do not try to make out you are some sort of super hero. That role is left to guys flying real rescue missions in units such as 202 Sqdn
I would say it was, thanks to google, something like; 'sending out or being sent out with authority to perform a special service'.
Where do I stop.
Flying a helicopter is not rocket science and you do not need a uni degree.
Flying a turbine helicopter or single engine turboprop is a piece of cake so do not try to make out you are some sort of super hero. That role is left to guys flying real rescue missions in units such as 202 Sqdn
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Nice big edit there Phil, so big I had to adjust this reply.
No, that is my employers mission statement and as for nurses I totally agree. But what do you do? Pay the nurses more (yes please!) or pay the pilots less?
Whichever you decide, the pay still comes from the same tax payers pocket.
Sorry to burst your bubble Phil, you couldn't be further from the truth.
Rather than open up my history to all that visit and read here, I invite you to get in touch for you to visit us. I will bring my log books in for your inspection over a brew and digestive.
I think the whole matter is summed up with the '...and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.' part of your post.
Am I not allowed a military pension after all those years?
What civvy flying pension?
Not so fortunate as who? Didn't we all start off somewhere?
As fortunate as someone starting off stacking shelves in a local supermarket. Then joining the ranks, digging shoite pits, refuelling/cleaning/pushing/pulling aircraft in all sorts of weathers, endless hours stood in a trench or stood on camp gates/crawling through mud and other military type activities at minus brass monkey temperatures. Doing what you were told when you were told and respecting others? Or expecting to always be on time dressed immaculately and fined if you faultered from the expected standards.
Someone that managed to end up flying one of the most advanced Police Helicopter in the World, through hard work alone?
There will always be council workers and hospital workers, some of us have been there, and there will always be someone wishing to do something else....like fly helicopters.
Sorry, I don't quite get that one.
If you can't realise what the job entails, it's you're matter to find out if you're not prepared to listen to those that do it.
Answer me this, where do you get the impression that all Police pilots are ex-mil?
That is the old military institutionalism still coming through. I'm sure a nurse
carries the same motivation without the sort of pay and pension a police pilot gets.
carries the same motivation without the sort of pay and pension a police pilot gets.
Whichever you decide, the pay still comes from the same tax payers pocket.
Rubbish. You are not flying alone and probably have never had to since you soloed.
Try flying a single engine aircraft VFR from Wales to Jersey at night or across the Bahamas and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.
Try flying a single engine aircraft VFR from Wales to Jersey at night or across the Bahamas and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.
Rather than open up my history to all that visit and read here, I invite you to get in touch for you to visit us. I will bring my log books in for your inspection over a brew and digestive.
I think the whole matter is summed up with the '...and paying for it SS and I think you find out what a cushy number you are on with the latest up to date kit.' part of your post.
I guess you are lucky enough to have a military and civvy flying pension.
What civvy flying pension?
There are low paid hospital and council workers further down the food chain not so fortunate .
As fortunate as someone starting off stacking shelves in a local supermarket. Then joining the ranks, digging shoite pits, refuelling/cleaning/pushing/pulling aircraft in all sorts of weathers, endless hours stood in a trench or stood on camp gates/crawling through mud and other military type activities at minus brass monkey temperatures. Doing what you were told when you were told and respecting others? Or expecting to always be on time dressed immaculately and fined if you faultered from the expected standards.
Someone that managed to end up flying one of the most advanced Police Helicopter in the World, through hard work alone?
There will always be council workers and hospital workers, some of us have been there, and there will always be someone wishing to do something else....like fly helicopters.
A little bit of humility and less arrogance would not go amiss.
If you can't realise what the job entails, it's you're matter to find out if you're not prepared to listen to those that do it.
Answer me this, where do you get the impression that all Police pilots are ex-mil?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Flying a helicopter is not rocket science and you do not need a uni degree.
Flying a turbine helicopter or single engine turboprop is a piece of cake so do not try to make out you are some sort of super hero. That role is left to guys flying real rescue missions in units such as 202 Sqdn
Flying a turbine helicopter or single engine turboprop is a piece of cake so do not try to make out you are some sort of super hero. That role is left to guys flying real rescue missions in units such as 202 Sqdn
In basic terms you are correct about flying Phil, it didn't take long for most of us to go solo on the Chipmunk/Gazelle, but like most things in life...it's not what you've got, it's what you do with it
It was only 6 posts ago but I say again, 'I don't think any of us think ourselves to be superheroes, just doing the job to the best of our abilities.'
I wonder if we have any ex 202 mates in the job
Phil, I suggest you listen to S76Heavy, before you spill into the SAR-H debate
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Silsoe Sid
Nurses,paramedics,ambulance crews,teachers,doctors, etc.
Where do I stop.
Quote:
I would say it was, thanks to google, something like; 'sending out or being sent out with authority to perform a special service'.
I would say it was, thanks to google, something like; 'sending out or being sent out with authority to perform a special service'.
Where do I stop.
West Midlands Ambulance Service
Our Mission Statement
Delivering the right patient care, in the right place, at the right time, through a skilled and committed workforce, in partnership with local health economies
School_mission_statements.html
A few on the above link
SchoolInfo/MissionStatement
Mission Statement
'To raise educational standards through effective practice and share this with the wider community.
'To raise educational standards through effective practice and share this with the wider community.
Bainbridge Island Family Practice Doctor - Mission Statement
Phil, You really are simply talking Arse!
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12 hour duties and future NPAS ops.
I think most folk in the industry think that the new national coverage is the way to go, it gives EVERY force (rich or poor) the use of air support WHEN its needed.
Its the money or lack of it that is causing the cut backs, chiefs have all been told to make it work (they do get well paid to sit in their plush offices).
I spent a long time flying for the cops in the north east and sometimes we never turned a blade, especially during daylight hours.
Billy burglar is the main bread and butter of air support from where I was sat, and thats usually night work, for garden searches etc. (If the area was ever contained)
Mispers as mentioned earlier are usually a tick in box callout, and are often under the bed or round at a friends. Remember if its a rural search there is always the SAR helicopter units who will do the search FREE of charge. It only takes a phone call to RCC Kinloss. One way or another weather permitting a helicopter will be available for missing person searches in the UK.
IF we were lucky, we would fly for 15 minutes a day to a fly the flag job of some kind during the daytime hours. If the naughty boys were caught it was the same old story, slapped wrist and dont do it again, until tomorrow that is, and they would be running from the same corner shop again!
If we ever did attend a RARE pursuit once a month, we followed a conga line of traffic and pandas all wanting to join the exciting chase with lights and sirens, which usually came to stop BECAUSE of a stinger, and the naughty boys all got bit by a land shark if the were unlucky (dog).
You know the way it goes, the observer zooms in until the runner is about to be tackled and then the camera is waved around the sky to save any future claims for GBH being recorded against the cops by the scrotes.
Those LONG 12 hour shifts were often spent shuffling the same pile of news papers, reading lads mags, and playing games on the laptop.
The boys in blue were usually squabling about who was at the top of the overtime list and would they be on double time again, especially if another observer rang in sick within the 8hr police time rule. Not forgetting who's turn it was to make the tea, and to shine their boots every hour just incase any supervision turned up unexpectedly to see what was going on at the sharp end.
If it was a night duty you could at least wash, polish and hoover the car in the hangar. Washing cars during the day like I saw on the Surrey cop thread pics in another thread on pprune was a no no, and woe betide you if you got caught changing a wiper blade in the public car park like one of our observers did (no overtime for a week)!
The bright side to things is that those pilots who will be still employed under the new NPAS setup will be getting a shed load of flying in compared to the old days of a one force helicopter which usually doesnt turn a blade during the day (in the north east that is)
Good luck to those lucky NPAS drivers who will actually be airborne instead of being sat for 12 hours at a time like we all where. After all thats why pilots learn to fly isnt it.
Its the money or lack of it that is causing the cut backs, chiefs have all been told to make it work (they do get well paid to sit in their plush offices).
I spent a long time flying for the cops in the north east and sometimes we never turned a blade, especially during daylight hours.
Billy burglar is the main bread and butter of air support from where I was sat, and thats usually night work, for garden searches etc. (If the area was ever contained)
Mispers as mentioned earlier are usually a tick in box callout, and are often under the bed or round at a friends. Remember if its a rural search there is always the SAR helicopter units who will do the search FREE of charge. It only takes a phone call to RCC Kinloss. One way or another weather permitting a helicopter will be available for missing person searches in the UK.
IF we were lucky, we would fly for 15 minutes a day to a fly the flag job of some kind during the daytime hours. If the naughty boys were caught it was the same old story, slapped wrist and dont do it again, until tomorrow that is, and they would be running from the same corner shop again!
If we ever did attend a RARE pursuit once a month, we followed a conga line of traffic and pandas all wanting to join the exciting chase with lights and sirens, which usually came to stop BECAUSE of a stinger, and the naughty boys all got bit by a land shark if the were unlucky (dog).
You know the way it goes, the observer zooms in until the runner is about to be tackled and then the camera is waved around the sky to save any future claims for GBH being recorded against the cops by the scrotes.
Those LONG 12 hour shifts were often spent shuffling the same pile of news papers, reading lads mags, and playing games on the laptop.
The boys in blue were usually squabling about who was at the top of the overtime list and would they be on double time again, especially if another observer rang in sick within the 8hr police time rule. Not forgetting who's turn it was to make the tea, and to shine their boots every hour just incase any supervision turned up unexpectedly to see what was going on at the sharp end.
If it was a night duty you could at least wash, polish and hoover the car in the hangar. Washing cars during the day like I saw on the Surrey cop thread pics in another thread on pprune was a no no, and woe betide you if you got caught changing a wiper blade in the public car park like one of our observers did (no overtime for a week)!
The bright side to things is that those pilots who will be still employed under the new NPAS setup will be getting a shed load of flying in compared to the old days of a one force helicopter which usually doesnt turn a blade during the day (in the north east that is)
Good luck to those lucky NPAS drivers who will actually be airborne instead of being sat for 12 hours at a time like we all where. After all thats why pilots learn to fly isnt it.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Unfortunately we fall into the traps of past memories/operating procedures and 'practises', assuming that the unit we know about only flys 275 hrs a year, forgetting the unit that flys up to 1400hrs and not realising that if there is a lull in crime, there will also be a lull in flying rate.
After all, in any job of this type, we can only do what there is to do. If no one came into A&E one night, is it a waste of time and money that the highly trained Doctors and Nurses are there drinking hot chocolate and nibbling digestives? Likewise the Fire and Ambulance Services. Closer to home, if a doctor is on an air ambulance one day and they aren't called to any jobs, shouldn't the Doctor have been better employed in a hospital where they could be doing some good as an extra pair of hands.
Some fail to see that you can't quantify a lot of public sector jobs, surely we aren't paid for what we do, but for what we can do.
For the sake of argument, if it appeared that people had stopped dropping litter on the streets, would we sack the road sweeper?
We have a picture of a purpose built hangar and facilities in the middle of the countryside, a local cafe for lunch and we forget the more 'practical' base, central to a region of high crime, where a hot meal is inevitably left on the table as soon as it is placed there as the radio call requesting help comes in.
Not all of us sit round doing little for a lot of the time, some of us usually do useful things during down times. As an aside, I wonder what your local fireman is doing now, I know that we don't have snooker or tale tennis tables or even beds at our base....or do you have a go at them using different usernames on their sites?
p.s.
The wobbly camera statement;
Every crim caught after 'doing a runner' claims police brutality of some sort. However, because some of these apprehensions are captured on camera, that claim is rapidly retracted. Thereby not allowing the crims to be awarded more tax payers money through this false claim and protecting the integrity of the officer, and everyone else up the chain, all the way to the award court that would have to say that there was police brutality even when there was none.
If the practise that props described still happens, then that only helps the crims and not the officers.
After all, in any job of this type, we can only do what there is to do. If no one came into A&E one night, is it a waste of time and money that the highly trained Doctors and Nurses are there drinking hot chocolate and nibbling digestives? Likewise the Fire and Ambulance Services. Closer to home, if a doctor is on an air ambulance one day and they aren't called to any jobs, shouldn't the Doctor have been better employed in a hospital where they could be doing some good as an extra pair of hands.
Some fail to see that you can't quantify a lot of public sector jobs, surely we aren't paid for what we do, but for what we can do.
For the sake of argument, if it appeared that people had stopped dropping litter on the streets, would we sack the road sweeper?
We have a picture of a purpose built hangar and facilities in the middle of the countryside, a local cafe for lunch and we forget the more 'practical' base, central to a region of high crime, where a hot meal is inevitably left on the table as soon as it is placed there as the radio call requesting help comes in.
Not all of us sit round doing little for a lot of the time, some of us usually do useful things during down times. As an aside, I wonder what your local fireman is doing now, I know that we don't have snooker or tale tennis tables or even beds at our base....or do you have a go at them using different usernames on their sites?
p.s.
The wobbly camera statement;
Every crim caught after 'doing a runner' claims police brutality of some sort. However, because some of these apprehensions are captured on camera, that claim is rapidly retracted. Thereby not allowing the crims to be awarded more tax payers money through this false claim and protecting the integrity of the officer, and everyone else up the chain, all the way to the award court that would have to say that there was police brutality even when there was none.
If the practise that props described still happens, then that only helps the crims and not the officers.
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Phil
Very astute.
Inordinate stupidity.
Not a mathematician either then?
I suppose the main argument from you seems to be that you have to pay for your flying, and your taxes being spent on Police Helicopters could be better spent on your private flying. Perhaps if you had tried harder at school you could have become a professional helicopter pilot flying a twin turbine machine and been paid for it.
Sits back and smiles with satisfaction at how well I have done when neither a rocket scientist or mathematician.
Flying a helicopter is not rocket science and you do not need a uni degree.
I got it from the figures quoted 3 or 4 posts ago by Ye Olde Pilot.
I've added £150 an hour for non direct costs
such as the police observer and admin.
such as the police observer and admin.
I suppose the main argument from you seems to be that you have to pay for your flying, and your taxes being spent on Police Helicopters could be better spent on your private flying. Perhaps if you had tried harder at school you could have become a professional helicopter pilot flying a twin turbine machine and been paid for it.
Sits back and smiles with satisfaction at how well I have done when neither a rocket scientist or mathematician.