Super Puma down central North Sea Feb 2009
Errr, can someone explain the last picture??
HC
It looks like the tail boom snapped off vice being chopped off by the MR blades.
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Iagree with helimutt, the FLIR video shows all five blades intact with the aircraft floating on the sea. All the damage must have been done on recovery or when it rolled over.
Si
Si
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SASless, isn't it possible the tailboom came off with water contact
helimutt & bigglesbutler
If you read his response more carefully, I think you should see that is what SASless is implying. "It looks like the tail boom snapped off vice being chopped off by the MR blades."
If you read his response more carefully, I think you should see that is what SASless is implying. "It looks like the tail boom snapped off vice being chopped off by the MR blades."
That's Life!!
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No point trying to rebuild it now
I am concerned that the tailboom has not yet been found, it is possible that being openended sand has filled it masking the underwater locator beacon signals. Don't know what the weather is like there nor the make up of the sea floor.
Oil-canned belly, no damage to the blades, tailboom snapped off, gear was down but aircraft remained upright, floats inflated and still well attached to the fuselage. Since this is PPRUNE and not a court of law, I am free to speculate and don't have to wait for an official report.
My read is a high-speed vertical descent with little forward motion. Kind of what you'd get with a vortex-ring state. Aircraft hits water hard enough to oil-can the belly and snapping the tailboom off. Bug-eyed pilot has the collective up so high the coning of the blades keeps them from whacking the tail. Water sense switches activate the auto float inflation. If the floats had already been inflated before impact you'd likely see one or two torn up. Any forward speed and that turtle-lovin Puma wouldn't have remained upright.
Any passengers booking chiropractor visits?
My read is a high-speed vertical descent with little forward motion. Kind of what you'd get with a vortex-ring state. Aircraft hits water hard enough to oil-can the belly and snapping the tailboom off. Bug-eyed pilot has the collective up so high the coning of the blades keeps them from whacking the tail. Water sense switches activate the auto float inflation. If the floats had already been inflated before impact you'd likely see one or two torn up. Any forward speed and that turtle-lovin Puma wouldn't have remained upright.
Any passengers booking chiropractor visits?
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Malabo - yes this is a rumor network, and yes you have a right to state your theories, however ill-informed and damaging they may be. You have already proved this on most threads relating to previous helicopter accidents on this forum. I would like to remind you though, that whilst freedom of expression is something we all hold dear, do not forget the damage you comments may cause, and I would urge you to exercise a little restraint in you condemnation at this stage. Journalists readily trawl here and quote in their writings, as do relatives and victims of accidents and you serve to do no good to our industry with your conceited comments. Just my tuppence - and i don't expect you to agree!
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Hi Horror Box,
I see nothing in Malabo's post that sounds like "Condemnation", (I presume you are alluding to condemnation of the crew) the sequence of events he describes could be caused by many things outwith the crews control such as FDCs AHRS type instrument and display failures that would produce a similar result.
When the is so little "Factual" information to be used other than the graphic account that the dammaged aircraft provides itself in the pictures and the stony silence from the Powers that Be people will speculate.
Happily nobody was really injured in the incident so I think we do have some freedom of expression without finger pointing.
I think we call all agree that the tail did not fall off in flight as the result would have been very very different as the CG goes for a ball of chalk and the yaw rate would have torn the AC apart on contact with the water......
We could all be AAIB Investigators if we try hard enough!!!
I see nothing in Malabo's post that sounds like "Condemnation", (I presume you are alluding to condemnation of the crew) the sequence of events he describes could be caused by many things outwith the crews control such as FDCs AHRS type instrument and display failures that would produce a similar result.
When the is so little "Factual" information to be used other than the graphic account that the dammaged aircraft provides itself in the pictures and the stony silence from the Powers that Be people will speculate.
Happily nobody was really injured in the incident so I think we do have some freedom of expression without finger pointing.
I think we call all agree that the tail did not fall off in flight as the result would have been very very different as the CG goes for a ball of chalk and the yaw rate would have torn the AC apart on contact with the water......
We could all be AAIB Investigators if we try hard enough!!!
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Shame on you
A few years ago, I was the subject of castigation and villification by a a great many so called SAR experts when I was the Commander of a SAR mission that went badly wrong. My character was assassinated and my ability was described as SH1t by so many experts who obviously new me well?? This was at a time when I was beating myself up anyway. My wife banned me from looking at Prune because of the harm it was doing. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT other than the crew and I would guess members of the AAIB. Give these guys a break and if you wish to speculate do it in private rather than hang these guys on at best flimsy evidence for us the illinformed. If this turns out to be crew error then I am very sorry for these guys because we are all human.
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To Lighten The Mood
To try and lighten the mood on this thread and stop the SP (Moderator) from fragging me......
SPECULATION!!!
A few years ago a very senior NS Collegue and mentor told me a story of when he was a SAR Pilot (Wessex I think) in the Royal Navy (Join the Navy and Never leave your freinds "behind").
He was called out after a particularly embullient dinner in the mess feeling a bit stuffed on stilton and biccies to a resue on a particularly dark and stormy night.
On arriving overhead the scene he began his winching op getting bumped about by squalls and spray.
About 20 minutes into the job, in total darkness and no visible horizon, he suddenly, and without any warning Barfed up on his own instrument panel. The resulting Unusual Attitude and high state of arousal was apparently nothing in comparison to the fury and disgust of the Engineers when he signed the now vomit stren AC back in at the hangar.
So, back to specualtion, maybe the whole incident was caused by a "Dodgy Prawn" from the ETAP galley (Now thats libbelous!!!!)
DB
SPECULATION!!!
A few years ago a very senior NS Collegue and mentor told me a story of when he was a SAR Pilot (Wessex I think) in the Royal Navy (Join the Navy and Never leave your freinds "behind").
He was called out after a particularly embullient dinner in the mess feeling a bit stuffed on stilton and biccies to a resue on a particularly dark and stormy night.
On arriving overhead the scene he began his winching op getting bumped about by squalls and spray.
About 20 minutes into the job, in total darkness and no visible horizon, he suddenly, and without any warning Barfed up on his own instrument panel. The resulting Unusual Attitude and high state of arousal was apparently nothing in comparison to the fury and disgust of the Engineers when he signed the now vomit stren AC back in at the hangar.
So, back to specualtion, maybe the whole incident was caused by a "Dodgy Prawn" from the ETAP galley (Now thats libbelous!!!!)
DB
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The Automatic Float Deployment System (AFDS) has been flying on the Super Puma series since 1996, it was around for about a year or so earlier on a limited number of aircraft while under development.
It was a Bristow development which was I think designed after a previous 332 accident whilst shuttling between rigs in bad weather, has been certified for the 332L/L1/L2 & EC225 series and is available for the S76 series. The system is I understand available to be fitted by Eurocopter and Sikorsky if a customer requests it, or as an aftermarket solution from Bristow.
To follow on from Malabo; as far as I know it has an inbuilt time delay to ensure energy attenuation prior to deployment of the floats to prevent them being ripped from the aircraft if they inflate too early.
Who knows if they were deployed by the crew or by the automatic system (be interesting to find out) but by all the evidence it does appear that they deployed correctly by whichever method and were effective in preventing a total catastrophe.
It was a Bristow development which was I think designed after a previous 332 accident whilst shuttling between rigs in bad weather, has been certified for the 332L/L1/L2 & EC225 series and is available for the S76 series. The system is I understand available to be fitted by Eurocopter and Sikorsky if a customer requests it, or as an aftermarket solution from Bristow.
To follow on from Malabo; as far as I know it has an inbuilt time delay to ensure energy attenuation prior to deployment of the floats to prevent them being ripped from the aircraft if they inflate too early.
Who knows if they were deployed by the crew or by the automatic system (be interesting to find out) but by all the evidence it does appear that they deployed correctly by whichever method and were effective in preventing a total catastrophe.
As you say ......... Most Bond aircraft are fitted with the Bristow system of AFDS, but the 225's are coming with the Eurocopter version of the same. I assume it is fitted under licence but not sure - Its a basically identical system.
Either way, depending on the final outcome and investigation, I am not aware of any aircraft ditching previously, without the floats already inflated. If it were the case that this was an unintentional ditching, and this aircraft remained upright with floats deployed, that would be a huge testament to the system.
Either way, depending on the final outcome and investigation, I am not aware of any aircraft ditching previously, without the floats already inflated. If it were the case that this was an unintentional ditching, and this aircraft remained upright with floats deployed, that would be a huge testament to the system.
but the 225's are coming with the Eurocopter version of the same. I assume it is fitted under licence but not sure - Its a basically identical system.
All other 225s with AFDS have Eurocopter's mod which is less clever - a simplex system, and requiring only 1 float switch activated to fire the floats, so a few false activations, and there is no delay between the switch and firing the floats.
HC
