ATPL/CPL Training: Ground School topics
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Whirlygig,
Thanks - I have looked into them, and this is where the problem stems. The CAA and AFT want the other one to make the concessions. The CAA say they do not have a problem with doing their course at an accelerated pace, provided it is in line with AFT`s approved course guidelines - which is phases 1 & 2, 15 hrs self study per week for a total of 30 weeks. This is still over 6 months - which I understand would cater for someone new to the rotary world -but not someone with previous knowledge.
Plenty of approved fixed wing FTOs doing ATPL theory, give credit at the discretion of the head of training if you have a non JAA ATPL - and it does vary with experience. So far my emails to AFT have gone unanswered.
I believe AFT are awaiting CAA approval for phase 2.
Oh the splendid JAA.....If it aint broke don`t fix it.
Cheers
Decimal
Thanks - I have looked into them, and this is where the problem stems. The CAA and AFT want the other one to make the concessions. The CAA say they do not have a problem with doing their course at an accelerated pace, provided it is in line with AFT`s approved course guidelines - which is phases 1 & 2, 15 hrs self study per week for a total of 30 weeks. This is still over 6 months - which I understand would cater for someone new to the rotary world -but not someone with previous knowledge.
Plenty of approved fixed wing FTOs doing ATPL theory, give credit at the discretion of the head of training if you have a non JAA ATPL - and it does vary with experience. So far my emails to AFT have gone unanswered.
I believe AFT are awaiting CAA approval for phase 2.
Oh the splendid JAA.....If it aint broke don`t fix it.
Cheers
Decimal
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Hi all
Ive been on the AFT CPL (H) study for 2 months now.
About 90% of the subjects Ive never come across before and I have an FAA CPL(H) and (A) with IR.
I was also an army pilot with 1500+ hours on heli so I was short of the 2000 to get the exemptions to the exams.
As the army dont cover most of the subjects, hasnt the CAA openly admited that the exams are total b*****ks in the first place. When will I ever fly a heli at FL 330 over the atlantic for christ sake.
The CAA is also compromised my safety as the cost for doing the study and exams means I can no longer keep my flying currency.
Floppy (pissed off)
Ive been on the AFT CPL (H) study for 2 months now.
About 90% of the subjects Ive never come across before and I have an FAA CPL(H) and (A) with IR.
I was also an army pilot with 1500+ hours on heli so I was short of the 2000 to get the exemptions to the exams.
As the army dont cover most of the subjects, hasnt the CAA openly admited that the exams are total b*****ks in the first place. When will I ever fly a heli at FL 330 over the atlantic for christ sake.
The CAA is also compromised my safety as the cost for doing the study and exams means I can no longer keep my flying currency.
Floppy (pissed off)
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Floppy
I know how pissed off you must be. Essentially the theory accounts for about 5% safety, and the rest the practical flying test.
Why have the UK CAA taken over 3 years to get JAA FCL2 into shape? When other countries have done it ..no problem.
I am probably opening up a can of worms here.... but do UK pilots still think they have some kind of elitism over foreign pilots? that then migrates to the CAA in some way.
How many items in everyones AIP coiincide with every other? Answer 98%
I am sorry floppy, for doubting you, but I think 90% is a little exaggerated. I might guess 15%. I know there are differences, but apart from Air Law; Bells are Bells, Aerodynamics don`t change, humans don`t change, nor does RT, on top of that you need a good sense of mental arithmetic!!
Without wanting to piss of the FAA community, I have friends that have said to me that they have read(or were given) the FAA exam papers prior to writing them, and they are a walk in the park.( CPL only!!) But that is a system fault with the FTOs. I am not surpirised that the UK CAA takes exception to them, becuase of that reputation. NB - that does not mean FAA pilots are substandard - this is purely theory . Remember that the whole idea of JAA, is to achieve harmonistion with the FAA - not Europe!!
Other International CAA`s have reputable systems, far more helo pilots per head than the UK,far less accident/incident, rates yet our UK CAA expects everyone else to follow suit, when other countries have a vast amount more experience than them.
I suggest boycott the b@stards - WHO`S WITH ME?
I can`t wait for the replies to this one
DECIMAL .
PS. Floppy, hope you`re finding the material good. Surprised the CAA couldn`t give you an equivalent licence based on your military background without too much fuss - they like that.... But soon the military pool will run dry.........
I know how pissed off you must be. Essentially the theory accounts for about 5% safety, and the rest the practical flying test.
Why have the UK CAA taken over 3 years to get JAA FCL2 into shape? When other countries have done it ..no problem.
I am probably opening up a can of worms here.... but do UK pilots still think they have some kind of elitism over foreign pilots? that then migrates to the CAA in some way.
How many items in everyones AIP coiincide with every other? Answer 98%
I am sorry floppy, for doubting you, but I think 90% is a little exaggerated. I might guess 15%. I know there are differences, but apart from Air Law; Bells are Bells, Aerodynamics don`t change, humans don`t change, nor does RT, on top of that you need a good sense of mental arithmetic!!
Without wanting to piss of the FAA community, I have friends that have said to me that they have read(or were given) the FAA exam papers prior to writing them, and they are a walk in the park.( CPL only!!) But that is a system fault with the FTOs. I am not surpirised that the UK CAA takes exception to them, becuase of that reputation. NB - that does not mean FAA pilots are substandard - this is purely theory . Remember that the whole idea of JAA, is to achieve harmonistion with the FAA - not Europe!!
Other International CAA`s have reputable systems, far more helo pilots per head than the UK,far less accident/incident, rates yet our UK CAA expects everyone else to follow suit, when other countries have a vast amount more experience than them.
I suggest boycott the b@stards - WHO`S WITH ME?
I can`t wait for the replies to this one
DECIMAL .
PS. Floppy, hope you`re finding the material good. Surprised the CAA couldn`t give you an equivalent licence based on your military background without too much fuss - they like that.... But soon the military pool will run dry.........
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If you have a military backround you could get a job working for the CAA, seems like a job for the boys type organisation, run by people who have no understanding, knowledge or respect for the commercial operators or pilots.
As for the FAA Cpl written exams, all the questions are their in a question bank, so technically yes you could learn them all, but realistiaclly you have to know what is going on, if you don't and manage to fluke a pass it will show in the oral portion of the test.
As for eliteism, I have been through both systems, and think the FAA while it does have its short falls is a far superior system, and will go on to make a safer pilot, so many people can go on to get an Instrument rating in the FAA system and may even have a bit of spare change, to further taining, that is unheard of in the JAA system.
Boycotting the CAA would be great but they really got us by the balls. Hopefully one day it will regulate itself out of exsistence.
As for the FAA Cpl written exams, all the questions are their in a question bank, so technically yes you could learn them all, but realistiaclly you have to know what is going on, if you don't and manage to fluke a pass it will show in the oral portion of the test.
As for eliteism, I have been through both systems, and think the FAA while it does have its short falls is a far superior system, and will go on to make a safer pilot, so many people can go on to get an Instrument rating in the FAA system and may even have a bit of spare change, to further taining, that is unheard of in the JAA system.
Boycotting the CAA would be great but they really got us by the balls. Hopefully one day it will regulate itself out of exsistence.
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Where for cpl(h) theory
I have info. for cpl(h) from Atlantic flight training. Does anyone know where else it can be done or has anyone used AFT for their cpl exams. Thanks
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Will there be an IR only theoretical helicopter course in the near future?
Also, do we know for sure that it will be enough with CPL+IR in order to get an ATPL issued in the foreseeable future?
Also, do we know for sure that it will be enough with CPL+IR in order to get an ATPL issued in the foreseeable future?
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Has anybody heard the rumour that they are thinking of dropping the CPL(H) exams down to 7?
Looking to sit the writtens only, I know people may have asked. Any ideas greatly appriciated..
Darren
Looking to sit the writtens only, I know people may have asked. Any ideas greatly appriciated..
Darren
Join Date: Feb 2004
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JAR CPL(H) and ATPL(H) groundschool
Hi all,
Have heard that the JAA now have a cplh theory package available as an alternative to the ATPL.
Is this correct? Iam not in the Uk to call them up so any help would be great.
Cheers
Have heard that the JAA now have a cplh theory package available as an alternative to the ATPL.
Is this correct? Iam not in the Uk to call them up so any help would be great.
Cheers
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Atlantic Flight Training do a cpl(H) which comprises of 9 exams
1. Air Law
2. Human Performance and Limitations
3. Meteorology
4. Navigation
5. VFR Communications
6. Operational Procedures
7. Aircraft General Knowledge
8. Flight Performance and Planning
9. Helicopter Principles of Flight
rather than 13 for the ATPL.
1. Air Law
2. Human Performance and Limitations
3. Meteorology
4. Navigation
5. VFR Communications
6. Operational Procedures
7. Aircraft General Knowledge
8. Flight Performance and Planning
9. Helicopter Principles of Flight
rather than 13 for the ATPL.
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Just a thought for you to consider,
If you were to think of applying for an offshore position or other work that may require an Inst. rating then these exams would not cover you and you would have to sit the required jaa exams at the atpl level.
Could be worth simply sitting them in the first place, as charlie says at least the atpl's are a known quantity with plenty of feedback to target the areas you need to learn.
If you were to think of applying for an offshore position or other work that may require an Inst. rating then these exams would not cover you and you would have to sit the required jaa exams at the atpl level.
Could be worth simply sitting them in the first place, as charlie says at least the atpl's are a known quantity with plenty of feedback to target the areas you need to learn.
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It is an option to do the ATPL exams straight off, but all you actually get is a frozen ATPL, which means you are unable to exercise the privaleges of said licence until you have 1500 hours. As an extra little kick in the guts if you have not flown ATPL within 36 months of completing the exams the CAA says you have to do them all again! So you have to decide what are the chances of you getting 1500 hours and a twin IR job within three years - none at the moment. Do the 9 exams for the cpl and at least you are on the ladder. At some point in the future when you need to you can go back and do the atpl at leisure and at least you will only have to do it once.
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Thanks for the info guys. Probably more confused about what to do and who to speak to now although the ATPL's are probably the one to go for. I was just hoping for an easy way around getting the uk licence, even though i knew there wasn't really such a thing!
I also have my IR from Australia, does this count towards converting to the JAA IR or do you have to do it all again?
Thanks for all your help again guys certainly given me a little more to ponder over for my inevitable return to sunny BLIGHTY!
Cheers again!!!
I also have my IR from Australia, does this count towards converting to the JAA IR or do you have to do it all again?
Thanks for all your help again guys certainly given me a little more to ponder over for my inevitable return to sunny BLIGHTY!
Cheers again!!!
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Charlie S Charlie is right about the 3-7 year thing; I was assuming that you wouldn't have a twin and instrument rating. It sounds like you are right that ATPL is the way to go for you. Charlie is also right about 1000 hours being the experience requirement- that's what I get for posting information off the top of my head. The only way to decide is to get a copy of Lasors 2004 from the CAA which sets out in detail which hoops you need to jump through for each different licence.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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ATPL ground study - opinions please...
I am just about to commence studying for the dreaded exams and my investigations so far reveal the favoured schools seem to be Oxford, and Bristol Ground School. My question is, therefore, to those of you who are currently studying or who have recently finished: quite simply, who would you recommend and why?
All opinions, on this thread or by PM, are very welcome.
Thanks in advance for your input.
DBChopper
All opinions, on this thread or by PM, are very welcome.
Thanks in advance for your input.
DBChopper
Better red than ...
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Have a look at GTS at Bournmouth as well (www.gtserv.co.uk from memory). They are the third rotary ATPL training est. apart from Ox and Bris.
Smaller classes and a bit more personal (but thats just my opinion).
h-r
Smaller classes and a bit more personal (but thats just my opinion).
h-r
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ATPL Ground Studies
DB Chopper
Exams for the JAA ATPL(H) are available as follows:
Fixed/RW common: Air law; HPL; Met; Radio Nav;
Comms-VFR & IFR.
RW specific: Inst; M & Balance; Performance;
Flt Plan & Monitoring; PoF(H); OPs Procedures.
021 Aircraft General is still based on the old CAA exams, as the syllabus is being reviewed under a NPA.
All the above have been in use for some time now but are only being taken by students at the one helicopter- only integrated school. Eventually the CAA will insist the all schools teach helicopter candidates helicopter specific subjects.
Sadly there does not seem, as yet, to be the demand to make it commercially viable to set / teach CPL(H) only.
Exams for the JAA ATPL(H) are available as follows:
Fixed/RW common: Air law; HPL; Met; Radio Nav;
Comms-VFR & IFR.
RW specific: Inst; M & Balance; Performance;
Flt Plan & Monitoring; PoF(H); OPs Procedures.
021 Aircraft General is still based on the old CAA exams, as the syllabus is being reviewed under a NPA.
All the above have been in use for some time now but are only being taken by students at the one helicopter- only integrated school. Eventually the CAA will insist the all schools teach helicopter candidates helicopter specific subjects.
Sadly there does not seem, as yet, to be the demand to make it commercially viable to set / teach CPL(H) only.