A question

[Atishoo]

I'm not sure if i have come to correct board but i have a question and i want it straight from the horses mouth so to speak (Pilots please)

I was travelling on a comercial package holiday company flight (better not mention which one) back from Crete in summer of 2005. It was the day the Helios flight from Cyprus crashed. So everyone was a bit jittery mostly myself !!

Ok we were flying happily over Europe, the weather was lovely and the flight was calm. All of a sudden (now im thinking we must have been somewhere sorta over Germany) as we were a good 2 hours or more into the journey, the ride became a little bumpy, on came the seatbelt signs, then it got REALLY bumpy lol i mean coffee off the tables bumpy and hold on to the seat arms bumpy, ok ok im a nervous flyer so maybe most ppl wouldnt have flinched.

The Captain told the crew to sit down and they almost ran to their seats good on them. This was actually really scary, my child panicked a bit i tried not to, even my Husband whos a very confident flyer looked worried , then we had the usual twerp behind us saying "oh doesnt everyone look worried " then it all seemed to become a lot less bumpier. BUT......

The bit i cant understand and dont think i ever will is this.... WHY OH WHY didnt the Captain or someone on the flight deck put their passengers at ease and explain what it was or that it was mild turbulence or severe, or anything!!! the CC didnt say anything either and we were all left with white faces, churning stomachs and crying children.

What im trying to say is..... wouldnt it have been both reassuring and professional to have calmed your passengers, and made them have some confidence in flying with that company again?? i know it may seem petty and that sort of thing could happen on any aircraft anywhere in the world, but to not know what it was or be reassured has made me think twice abt flying with that Company again, any comments ??

[fox niner]

Hey there Atishoo,

Yep, you have indeed come to the right place for your aviation questions. Just watch this thread develop over the next few days. However, I will have to warn you that not all posters are professional pilots so you have to read between the lines now and then.

Indeed, you are right, it would have been far better if the cockpit crew had reassured the passengers that everything was fully under control, that there was nothing to worry about and that it was merely going to be a bumpy ride. Mind you, as the crew is trying to deal with the bumps, it may be a bit tricky to do a decent PA speech. However, after the bumps are over, there should be some room for a quick announcement. Especially if it was severe turbulence.
Damn, it has been 1 1/2 years since the incident and you're still nervous about it! I never imagined that passengers could be that preoccupied about turbulence. I will certainly keep that in mind from now on.

The only reason that there is an announcement for the cabin crew to take their seats is so that they will not fly up against the ceiling. Or get thrown about in any other direction. The airplane itself can withstand all this turbulence with great ease, do not worry. It is flying along at 900 kph so when it encounters a ripple of air, it will react to it fairly directly. If you hold out your arm out of your car, you will be able to feel the great force that moving air has.

So, happy holidays and I hope you'll take the plane....enjoy it! it's better and safer than the car.

[Atishoo]

i just wrote a really long post to last poster and it deleted itself grrrrrrr

ok im gonna make this shortish.....

im presuming u are a pilot, but was just wondering as i used to deliver babies whether you would put ur face down THAT end and take a close look and not feel nauseous then we will be equal JOKE

Just to say really that i stand by what i say and i still think it was slightly un professional of the crew not to inform us after the turbulence that everything was fine, after all we flew for another 2 hours after so not like they didnt have time.

I think personally it depends on the Captain, why i say this is because i have flown many many times and i have experienced Crew who chat to you constantly , giving all sorts of info and look outs on the journey, some have a joke, and are really nice, (once a pilot even came to the back galley of the plane and had a chat with us for ages) this i think puts everyone at ease and makes for a happy camp.

What does it take for a Pilot to be a bit chatty and friendly? not much i dont think. Then you can get a crew who find it hard to even tell u the essentials, you get those and u hear no more again. I might be wrong but if i was te big boss of somewhere like BA i would make my crews make themselves a little more REAL to their passengers. ok gripe over.

I dont think any flight course thing will make me get rid of my anxieties of flying, im one of those flyers who if i get from A to B and dont even have a bump i will come off smiling and say oh i love flying !! but give me any sort of turbulence and im a quivering wreck !! although i do do a good job at hiding it from my kids who love it.

[Rainboe]

im presuming u are a pilot, but was just wondering as i used to deliver babies whether you would put ur face down THAT end and take a close look and not feel nauseous then we will be equal JOKE

I have, frequently. What has that got to do with it?

[Atishoo]

IT was a JOKE !!!!!!

Just wondering if we reversed roles and i didnt tell u anything abt the tehnicalities of my job or even reassured u everything was normal and ok u would be a bit nervous, it was actually intended as a joke now im thinking maybe you are one of those Pilots who just fly the plane and dont talk to your passengers

[Rainboe]

Well I'm afraid medical professionals frequently get on with their stuff without explaining exactly what they're doing, like filling a giant syringe without saying where they're going to put it. I think you have to accept you are an extremely nervous passenger overafraid of the slightest noise or movement. Now should the pilot cater for the most nervous passenger on every flight, even if there isn't a bundle of nerves on most flights he carries, and make a pain of himself telling everyone 'not to worry' every 2 minutes, or can he expect people who do have a severe problem of nervousness in the air to be a little proactive in getting treatment for their condition and actually trying to do something about it? Bear in mind that some flights can have 400 people on board, many sleeping, who don't want to listen all flight to nervous people being constantly told 'it's OK!'.

Either fly and accept it and control your nervousness or go by train/boat, but please don't go flinging insults so lightly.

[Atishoo]

WOW!!!

Nice guy!!

I didnt see anywhere where i insulted you at all. All i was here for was to merely ask a question as to why a Pilot wouldnt make a minute explanation as to why we were jumping arounf the sky and im so sorry im an amatuer and i have no clues to cross. tail or whatever winds and am not even pretending to be a pilot and knowing, but i still think its common courtesy to let ppl who ARNT in the know why that happened afterall we do pay to fly in these planes , do we not???

And as for you saying im insulting you , what dyou call it when you tell me in a super nervous passenger and why should a pilot have to put himself out for just me?? And fo rme to go have some therapy or course !!!!

All i can say is im very very glad ive never had the extreme pleasure to fly on an aircraft YOU were Piloting, anfd pardon me for being scared, i think you will find there are thousands like me dear.

[Atishoo]

Foxniner, im beginning to understand what u meant by following paragraph now

I will have to warn you that not all posters are professional pilots so you have to read between the lines now and then.

[Rainboe]

Funny, I thought someone wrote:

now im thinking maybe you are one of those Pilots who just fly the plane and dont talk to your passengers

So, it is your experienced opinion that:

i still think it was slightly un professional of the crew not to inform us after the turbulence that everything was fine

They probably never had any reason to suspect that people were still gripping their armrests with white knuckles. It was just a bit of turbulence!

Your child panicked. They take their lead from the parent. You should learn to enjoy your flight and not overreact otherwise you will create another nervous passenger. Your crew were professionals, they obviously thought nothing of the turbulence. You shou7ld understand what real turbulence is- people take off and hit the ceiling, the pilots can't read the instruments, the cabin is in a mess, nobody can stand.....and still the aeroplane comes through it fine. Exactly what are you worried about? You want to be patted on the head for every little bump? I think it is you making unreasonable demands!

[Pilot Pete]

Atishoo

Please understand that Rainboe always has a blunt reply for anyone who is not up to his standard (which of course means everyone).

Please don't think we are all like that, some of us have learnt a little about CRM from the lessons we have attended. If you don't know what CRM is, it is Crew Resource Management, see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management Notice the communication aspect, which includes communicating with your passengers, especially the nervous ones, as this may go some way to improving the safety of your flight. Consider a scared passenger doing something irrational inflight and causing some sort of 'problem'. Perhaps this could be avoided by some reassuring words from the captain when something has occured which may be worrying, like turbulence.

Fear of flying is an irrational fear if you look at the statistics, but one that many, many passengers experience. We cannot allow for the lowest common denominator making PAs constantly after every action we take, but I ALWAYS make a PA either during, or after a turbulence encounter as I consider it to be something that on the whole, is wanted by my passengers and which I believe could well enhance the safe conduct of my flight.

Rest assured many of us on here would prefer not to have to fly with Rainboe as one of his passengers.....

Happy flying.

PP

[Atishoo]

OH MYYYY....

I really came away from this little debarcle feeling like i was a neurotic stupid passenger, and also a totally clueless one too. Im so happy to read the last post and i thank u very much for making me realise im not some stupid quivering wreck, who should just sit back and listen to rainboe (God) pilot.

All i wanted to know was whether or why the crew didnt just say "sorry abt that folks just a little turbulence" and on the back of it being abt 3 hrs after the Helios plane crashed i really dont think thats too much to ask. Thanks Pilot Pete for making me feel better and im sure the majority of good pilots are like you and not like ahem HIM.

And thanks as im very new to these boards for warning me too

[Rainboe]

Well Pete, your second paragraph actually had my fingers down my throat, then alleluyah! You agree with me in the next paragraph:

We cannot allow for the lowest common denominator making PAs constantly after every action we take

and I also do the following:

but I ALWAYS make a PA either during, or after a turbulence encounter

but I strongly suspect we have here a person with an unusually severe nervousness problem, who is creating the same in their offspring, who can't seem to rationalise that the pilots thought there was nothing overduly severe that warranted a PA. I'm inclined to go on the pilots actual judgement than say 'there there diddums' to someone who can't be bothered to sort their problem out, but instead publicly castigates their pilot for their judgement......and makes the most peculiar accusations of what my reaction will be looking down........odd places. You want to take a neurotically nervous person's word against the judgement of other pilots- that's why it gets short shrift from me. I earnestly hope you and this person are never my passengers- you both have peculiar judgement to me!

And why should the pilot apologise?. One golden lesson in aviation I have learnt is never, ever, never apologise for something that is not your fault! To many people, if you apologise for something, ergo it must be your fault, therefore you are to blame! A bit like Atishoo's pilot has taken the blame for giving Atishoo a beastly flight- can you imagine if he'd actually apologised too how much blame he would have taken as well?

Rule 2 is only apologise if the blame will point publicly at you and you can't avoid it. Then apologise early and profusely.

[Brian Abraham]

Atishoo,
Reading your posts it would seem that you are an extremely nervous passenger and the advice I would give would be to seek out a institution which offers a "Nervous Flyer" program. There are many about and many airlines can put you in touch with those who do the courses.
You have to understand though that the pilots can not be on the PA every time there is a little bump because the nature of flying is that there will always be bumps (just like if you go boating there are always going to be waves). The crew will always inform passengers if they expect bigger bumps than may be normal and this is usually by telling passengers to remain seated with seat belts fastened, and at times for the cabin crew to take their seats and buckle up. But they can not always tell when bumps may be about.
You have to understand we all have our fears but if you want to engage in an activity you need to be proactive in addressing your fears and not expect others to hold your hand every step of the way. There is absolutely no way I'd get on a circus high wire or trapeze, but loved skydiving when I was a youth. If flying proves it is not for you, then like others who have the same fears, you may be best going by bus, as they do. The wife of a good friend absolutely hates flying, and as she ages the more she hates it, to the point where now she just will not travel by air. As she says its because she is a control freak and she is not in control. In fact some of the most white knuckled arm rest grippers you will see in the back of an aircraft are other aircrew, and for much the same reason, they are not in control. As a retired professional pilot myself (not airline though) there have been a couple of times I've had white knuckles when sitting in the back, but when I look at why in the cold light of day, it was for no good reason. Once was driving around a thunderstorm and the other was turbulence - so there you go.
Do the course and then you may be able to sit back and enjoy the magic carpet ride that flying is.
Blue Skies,
Brian

[Atishoo]

oh my GOD

who the heck does this guy really think he is?? GOD????? Talk abt delusions of granduer, this guy wrote the book.

You talk to me like im some sort of neurotic fool for wanting a 2 min explanation as to why 99% of the passengers were going green and very scared,how dare you ever insult my intelligence by even posting here on my thread again. You are an inhuman A*** who is ASSuming im like this all the time, ive flown thousands of miles and not even blinked an eyelid, so dont u dare come here telling me to go get help, when u clearly need help in Human contact. PFTTTT God help us all who fly in skies with THIS one Dont think your insults will get my attention again i will NOT post here on this thread again, EVER

[Rainboe]

The situation as you described it was:

the ride became a little bumpy, on came the seatbelt signs, then it got REALLY bumpy lol i mean coffee off the tables bumpy and hold on to the seat arms bumpy, ok ok im a nervous flyer so maybe most ppl wouldnt have flinched.

Drinks spilled, but 'most ppl wouldn't have flinched'. I'm afraid you're changing it to 'why 99% of the passengers were going green and very scared'.

I think because you can't take a contrary view to yours perhaps we should end this thread- it's getting daft! To compound a severe flight nervousness problem, your reaction to some professional pilot views that it was probably nothing undue suggests not continuing any further. I'm sorry you can't accept words of reassurance and a suggestion as to how you can learn to control your feelings inflight without making personally rude comments.

Ps It's not 'your' thread- the whole caboodle belongs to Danny who paid for it, and has the power of instant expulsion, as I am expelled into the wilderness quite regularly to sit and brood on the error of my ways until the Pprune door opens again and the golden light shines out.

[Atishoo]

LOL WORDS of reassurance.... GOD help us all if we had to rely on YOUR waords of reassurance, yes close the thread cuz im starting to wonder if you have a heart OR a pilots licence

[The Real Slim Shady]

Bless you,
I always try to pre-warn my pax about forecast turbulence: if the Met chart warns of turbulence or I can see the "bleedin' obvious" - the junction of 2 distinct air masses, there is a fair chance that my advance warning will be accurate.
However, where does one draw the line? Do I advance warn the cobblestone effect on the basis that it may occur?
No.
Reality is that the best we can do is give some indication of moderate turbulence; notwithstanding that, we will do all we can to find a smooth ride: a lower or higher level or a re route are possibilities. Often we hear crews asking for "ride reports"; be assured we do try our best to find smooth air.
The one single thing to bear in mind is that the aircraft reacts rather like a boat, in that it rides the bumps, moving with them rather than absorbing them.
If the crew don't think it is serious enough to do anything other than ask you to fasten your seatbelt, chances are it is for insurance not discomfort. We have to be so careful these days with liability claims.

A little air turbulence and a jiggly ride is normal, if a bit uncomfortable; you don't have any need for concern, it's simply caused by the difference in motion between air.

[Atishoo]

Ahhhhh bless you too

A REAL Pilot !!

SEE doesnt take much does it?

thank u very much for treating me like a human hugssss

[flt_lt_w_mitty]

Atishoo - you seem to have woken the grumpy old dragon! Best left asleep.
As others have said, yes, I would expect my crews to speak to the passengers if the seatbelt sign is put on for turbulence - time permitting - and especially if it was bad enough for the cabin crew to have been ordered to sit down! It only takes a moment and is quite re-assuring. It is also in our manual.

[pigs]

The best thing for a nervous passenger is to keep an eye on the stewards/esses during times of turbulence. If they are getting on with their jobs, smile on their faces etc., you know you are alright. If they are screaming in fear of their lives, PANIC!