Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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I don't think Ryanair fly any of the routes your list of failed airlines flew.
Most of which went bust for good reasons, some along time ago and with only 1 A/C and crap business models.
You can look back at any sector of industry and quote brands that are no more...that don't mean the world has come to an end!!!...simply that the world has moved on, that is the case now, in the past and forever more.
We are buying more washing up liquid than we did in the 60's, but you won't find a bottle of the then brand leader sqeezy on the shelves now!....life moves on.
That said, this is a bad snapshot in time for the industry, but lets quit the competition to find the best bit of drama!
Most of which went bust for good reasons, some along time ago and with only 1 A/C and crap business models.
You can look back at any sector of industry and quote brands that are no more...that don't mean the world has come to an end!!!...simply that the world has moved on, that is the case now, in the past and forever more.
We are buying more washing up liquid than we did in the 60's, but you won't find a bottle of the then brand leader sqeezy on the shelves now!....life moves on.
That said, this is a bad snapshot in time for the industry, but lets quit the competition to find the best bit of drama!
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Mild, green Fairy Liquid - it was good for hands that do dishes in the '60s and my wife tells me that it's still kind to her pinkies today! Wouldn't know about that sort of thing Myself, though you understand.
Artie, BA looking for 2000 cabin crew to go, a sizeable loss and the top 500 pilots being asked if they would like to go early. And a £3,000,000,000 hole where a pension fund should be.
Virgin - 21 highly experienced pilots about to start 1 years unpaid leave (mortgage nightmare - flipping burgers)... Master Caution lit at the very least.
BMI - Lufthansa so desperate not to increase their stake from 30% to 80% they are willing to crash the company with allegations they are breaching their AOC cash requirement when they are not.
The Spanish, Irish, Portugese and Greek economies are teetering on a Latvian style collapse, Germany is in the worst recession since the War, SAS is loosing money at a rate that even it finds suprising.
Its WALL TO WALL crisis. So. This winter will be a bloodbath. I stand by that. For WANNABES last winter was one a crisis as there wasn't a single proper job. Hence half my dispatchers at work have CPL/IR's...
Remember. UK unemployment will go to the far side of 3 million. It is currently 2.25 million. The painful bit it yet to come. House prices will fall another 20% in real terms. Soon the sea of unemployed wannabe pilots will be swelled by a tidal wave of unemployed redundant pilots.
This will be just like 1992 - 1996 but with huge, brass, ornate, knobs on.
Trust me.
WWW
Virgin - 21 highly experienced pilots about to start 1 years unpaid leave (mortgage nightmare - flipping burgers)... Master Caution lit at the very least.
BMI - Lufthansa so desperate not to increase their stake from 30% to 80% they are willing to crash the company with allegations they are breaching their AOC cash requirement when they are not.
The Spanish, Irish, Portugese and Greek economies are teetering on a Latvian style collapse, Germany is in the worst recession since the War, SAS is loosing money at a rate that even it finds suprising.
Its WALL TO WALL crisis. So. This winter will be a bloodbath. I stand by that. For WANNABES last winter was one a crisis as there wasn't a single proper job. Hence half my dispatchers at work have CPL/IR's...
Remember. UK unemployment will go to the far side of 3 million. It is currently 2.25 million. The painful bit it yet to come. House prices will fall another 20% in real terms. Soon the sea of unemployed wannabe pilots will be swelled by a tidal wave of unemployed redundant pilots.
This will be just like 1992 - 1996 but with huge, brass, ornate, knobs on.
Trust me.
WWW
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LDV vans and Cheltenham and Glouscester have announced job losses of up to three thousand heads between the two (if I remember the figures right) in the last 48 hours alone. Never mind the other high street (and non-high street) names that have folded or shed jobs over the last few months.
It doesn't take a genius to see the airline industry is going to suffer big style.
The idea of paying out mortgage size sums of money to learn to fly seems like financial suicide at the moment.
Surely the only sensible route is to self improve funded by paid employment - giving time for financial climate to settle down.
It would be irresponsible to get in to debt that you have no guarantee of getting a job to pay back - surely just compounding the current financial crisis?!
It doesn't take a genius to see the airline industry is going to suffer big style.
The idea of paying out mortgage size sums of money to learn to fly seems like financial suicide at the moment.
Surely the only sensible route is to self improve funded by paid employment - giving time for financial climate to settle down.
It would be irresponsible to get in to debt that you have no guarantee of getting a job to pay back - surely just compounding the current financial crisis?!
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BAA suffers 7.3% fall in May traffic
The number of passengers using Britain's main airports fell by 7.3 per cent in May compared to the same month last year, as the recession and the weakness of sterling continued to hit overseas travel.
BAA, which operates seven UK airports, said the fall in the number of passengers it handled to 11.8 million was in line with the trends it had seen since December, and that while demand remained weak, patterns had not changed materially.
Heathrow reported a smaller drop of 3.9 per cent, which BAA said demonstrated "the resilience and importance of Britain's international hub airport".
It said that Gatwick had seen an improvement in recent trends, falling by 6.5 per cent, as a stronger summer schedule and the Open Skies agreement between the EU and US impacted positively.
The worst performing airport was Stansted, where traffic fell by 18.5 per cent as some airlines continued to cut capacity in response to tough economic conditions.
BAA, which operates seven UK airports, said the fall in the number of passengers it handled to 11.8 million was in line with the trends it had seen since December, and that while demand remained weak, patterns had not changed materially.
Heathrow reported a smaller drop of 3.9 per cent, which BAA said demonstrated "the resilience and importance of Britain's international hub airport".
It said that Gatwick had seen an improvement in recent trends, falling by 6.5 per cent, as a stronger summer schedule and the Open Skies agreement between the EU and US impacted positively.
The worst performing airport was Stansted, where traffic fell by 18.5 per cent as some airlines continued to cut capacity in response to tough economic conditions.
British recession has ended, says influential think-tank NIESR
Think tank data for April suggests Britain could be the first industrialised economy to emerge from recession
The British economy grew in April for the first time in just under a year and continued its expansion in May, according to the influential National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR).
If the trend were confirmed by official data, Britain would become the first major industrialised economy to end recession.
The NIESR, which produces monthly estimates of British gross domestic product growth, said the economy shrank by 0.9 per cent in the three months to May compared with the previous three months, but that the low-point was reached in March.
The think tank said GDP expanded at a monthly rate of 0.2 per cent in April and 0.1 percent in May after entering recession in May last year. “The monthly profile points to March as having been the trough of the depression, with output rising in April and May.
If the trend were confirmed by official data, Britain would become the first major industrialised economy to end recession.
The NIESR, which produces monthly estimates of British gross domestic product growth, said the economy shrank by 0.9 per cent in the three months to May compared with the previous three months, but that the low-point was reached in March.
The think tank said GDP expanded at a monthly rate of 0.2 per cent in April and 0.1 percent in May after entering recession in May last year. “The monthly profile points to March as having been the trough of the depression, with output rising in April and May.
NIESER are respected by whom and for what? They are a rent a quote bunch of know nothings.
Its like claiming Ed Balls is widely respected in the City.
We have to get from 2.2 to 3.2 million unemployed yet and interest rates at 7%. This crisis hasn't even got into its stride. Green shoots you say? Bollocks.
WWW
Its like claiming Ed Balls is widely respected in the City.
We have to get from 2.2 to 3.2 million unemployed yet and interest rates at 7%. This crisis hasn't even got into its stride. Green shoots you say? Bollocks.
WWW
Banter is welcome.
This is the relative price of houses to the FTSE
Ignoring the 1973 spike houses cost 40 FTSE points. Thats much more than the typical 30 or 20 point price range that has proven so typical over the decades. The chart tell you to sell your house and buy equities.
Lets get the 'unemployment spike' and the 'Interest Rate return to normal rises' out of the way before we give any attention to talk of green shoots of recovery.
WWW
This is the relative price of houses to the FTSE
Ignoring the 1973 spike houses cost 40 FTSE points. Thats much more than the typical 30 or 20 point price range that has proven so typical over the decades. The chart tell you to sell your house and buy equities.
Lets get the 'unemployment spike' and the 'Interest Rate return to normal rises' out of the way before we give any attention to talk of green shoots of recovery.
WWW
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I am almost going to agree with WWW, I mean a week or so ago we were told to expect a scorching hot summer and now we are on a flood alert, I ask you, these so called experts are all bankers, so is their level of accuracy...we're doomed i say again we're doomed!!!!!!
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we're doomed i say again we're doomed!!!!!!
We have about 2 years of pain left before we see any green shoots however good news is welcome
Truth be told what concerns me more is the oil price. Yesterday we saw $70/barrel and we're nowhere near a recovery so what happens to the price when the economy starts to kick off again?
I'll go out on a limb and say $200/barrel. I hope i'm wrong
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Isn't it the case that no one really knows whats going to happen to the UK economy, and NIESR are just as likely to be wrong as those of you predicting Armageddon? It's surprising that people aren't more cautious about their predictions. Either way there will be some red faced people out there in the coming months.
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All I can say to you lot is "The only way is up!" YouTube - Yazz - The Only Way Is Up [high quality] 
lol,
..Sorry couldn't resist, but this tune does hold truth rather than dreaming/thinking of the negativity that this forum seems to love!!
This thread is about the "upturn" and not the downturn.
lol, ..Sorry couldn't resist, but this tune does hold truth rather than dreaming/thinking of the negativity that this forum seems to love!!
This thread is about the "upturn" and not the downturn.
Last edited by Cirrus_Clouds; 11th Jun 2009 at 13:32.
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Or how about this tosh from the early 90's!!!!
YouTube - D:Ream - Things Can Only Get Better (TOTP)
Things can only get better...not for Mr Brown though, Labour and certainly not D-REAM....
YouTube - D:Ream - Things Can Only Get Better (TOTP)
Things can only get better...not for Mr Brown though, Labour and certainly not D-REAM....
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Oi that's not tosh is that, saw them in concert back then, they were ok although a man totally outclassed by his beautiful backing singers is rarely a bad thing after enough Guinness!
WWW I still think you are over simplifying, but I like your chart. However it may well tell you to sell your house and buy equities, but if you already had equities, instead of a house it'd tell you the opposite as well. Either way it is telling you something based on anticipated growth (due to current low price of both), which would appear at odds with your general argument.
WWW I still think you are over simplifying, but I like your chart. However it may well tell you to sell your house and buy equities, but if you already had equities, instead of a house it'd tell you the opposite as well. Either way it is telling you something based on anticipated growth (due to current low price of both), which would appear at odds with your general argument.
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It’s going to get worse before it gets better, how many jobs lost in this week alone?!
Only growth market this summer is the football transfer market!
And as for our former Brit Popping Prime Minister - he must be laughing his t!ts off right now, bathed in the relief that he got out just in time. And its no small part down to him that we're in this mess.
‘You wanted to PM Gordon . . . ‘
Only growth market this summer is the football transfer market!
And as for our former Brit Popping Prime Minister - he must be laughing his t!ts off right now, bathed in the relief that he got out just in time. And its no small part down to him that we're in this mess.
‘You wanted to PM Gordon . . . ‘
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Chancellor says oil price could dampen recovery hopes
The Chancellor today sought to damp down hopes of an early end to the recession, arguing that high oil prices could hold back recovery.
An opinion poll for The Times today suggested that more people were detecting green shoots, with 32 per cent of those questioned predicting that the country’s finances would fare “well” over the next year, up from a low point of 18 per cent in January.
A leading think-tank had also claimed this week that the UK economy may have bottomed out after returning to growth in April and May.
But in an interview with the Financial Times, Alistair Darling said: “I think it is important that people should not become complacent.”
He said that he was sticking to his Budget forecast and expecting the recession to finish towards the end of this year.
The Chancellor said the volatile oil price — which last night reached an eight-month high above $73 a barrel — had “the potential to be a huge problem as far as the recovery is concerned”.
An opinion poll for The Times today suggested that more people were detecting green shoots, with 32 per cent of those questioned predicting that the country’s finances would fare “well” over the next year, up from a low point of 18 per cent in January.
A leading think-tank had also claimed this week that the UK economy may have bottomed out after returning to growth in April and May.
But in an interview with the Financial Times, Alistair Darling said: “I think it is important that people should not become complacent.”
He said that he was sticking to his Budget forecast and expecting the recession to finish towards the end of this year.
The Chancellor said the volatile oil price — which last night reached an eight-month high above $73 a barrel — had “the potential to be a huge problem as far as the recovery is concerned”.
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Nhaaa....he's got it all wrong!!!...He should have consulted WWW...'The price of oil is a sideshow' 
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Seriously lads, you need to cheer up. Remember in the pooley's Human Factors and Performance book that it says many stressors are only perceived and not actually there....
You're boring the
out of me at this stage... Like a little cult of pessimism and gloom.
You're boring the
out of me at this stage... Like a little cult of pessimism and gloom.