Oxford Air Training
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I think that's the point Hamil000 - "GET AN AIRLINE JOB".
The reason OAT impresses me more against other approved FTO's is the emphasis given to securing employment after completion of the course. Surely securing employment is the biggest factor in weighing up the pro's and cons of any FTO (that is of course, if you accept the flight training aspect to be of a high standard across the board)
If you're out there and spending 40k, 50k, 60k on flying training then surely using an FTO that is likely to help you the most in securing a job is the way to go.....
The reason OAT impresses me more against other approved FTO's is the emphasis given to securing employment after completion of the course. Surely securing employment is the biggest factor in weighing up the pro's and cons of any FTO (that is of course, if you accept the flight training aspect to be of a high standard across the board)
If you're out there and spending 40k, 50k, 60k on flying training then surely using an FTO that is likely to help you the most in securing a job is the way to go.....
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Why does everyone knock the training schools ?
There seems to be a constant bashing of the training schools. One of my brood went to OAT a while ago and then wrote to every Airline on the planet, as they all do. Received virtually no replies and a couple of no thanks.
The OAT graduates were arranged interviews with airlines and most got jobs within a few months on jets.
Without the Careers Staff at OAT, they'd all still be looking.
The point is, the airlines like this system or they wouldn't use it. They get an ongoing steam of quality low hour pilots without the grief. It works for them.
I'm sure all the main flying schools have similar good connections with airlines built up over many years and hence can place most of their graduates quickly. Yes it costs to go to a major school, but it's the route the airlines use the most.
The airlines don't train pilots any more so lets give the schools a bit of support.
I have no connection with any school, just experience of seeing my offspring through OAT and have no complaints. Prospects should be even better now for low hours chaps now that pilot demand is picking up. Best of luck in getting that first job.
Skintman
The OAT graduates were arranged interviews with airlines and most got jobs within a few months on jets.
Without the Careers Staff at OAT, they'd all still be looking.The point is, the airlines like this system or they wouldn't use it. They get an ongoing steam of quality low hour pilots without the grief. It works for them.
I'm sure all the main flying schools have similar good connections with airlines built up over many years and hence can place most of their graduates quickly. Yes it costs to go to a major school, but it's the route the airlines use the most.
The airlines don't train pilots any more so lets give the schools a bit of support.
I have no connection with any school, just experience of seeing my offspring through OAT and have no complaints. Prospects should be even better now for low hours chaps now that pilot demand is picking up. Best of luck in getting that first job.
Skintman
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well most of what's been said on this tread rings deafening bells, quite right you pay £60k or more depending on how many times they want to rip you off for the next pointless logo change and although you're supposed to be a 'customer' there always exists the underlying reality that those students who complain will not be given the same employment support as others. I agree you should be able to complain without fear of the hand of evil management reaching out and fisting your career chances of walking into a jet job but at OAT that's just part of the environment. You have to be careful and be warned, those of you who have bought the friendly Oxford image, if you don't fit into their little mould of how they think an airline pilot should look, act, think and brethe you may also find yourself put out to graze. Remember the majority of management in that place are either failed airline pilots who once almost had a career and then lost it or people who never made it to begin with and love to think they can control the destination of 'customers' like you.
also feel for the guys in arizona, when I was there the place was a complete shambles, a symphony in amateurish pretention not helped by the slap dash american style instruction which ill prepared us for UK IR
with reference to previous posts praising OAT sims, that's bull. They look impressive on an open day but the 3 fnpt2 sims are beechcraft layout, most useful when you'll be flying a seneca !! also they have LHR layout to impress you when you come round with wide eyes, this too is fantastic because you won't be flying to LHR in IR training, however all the most useful airport layouts seem to be missing from those sim databases - marvelous.
also feel for the guys in arizona, when I was there the place was a complete shambles, a symphony in amateurish pretention not helped by the slap dash american style instruction which ill prepared us for UK IR
with reference to previous posts praising OAT sims, that's bull. They look impressive on an open day but the 3 fnpt2 sims are beechcraft layout, most useful when you'll be flying a seneca !! also they have LHR layout to impress you when you come round with wide eyes, this too is fantastic because you won't be flying to LHR in IR training, however all the most useful airport layouts seem to be missing from those sim databases - marvelous.
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also feel for the guys in arizona, when I was there the place was a complete shambles, a symphony in amateurish pretention not helped by the slap dash american style instruction which ill prepared us for UK IR
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OAT: Airline Pilot Training Scheme
Any one got any insights to OAT's Airline Pilot Training Scheme banner on their website (www.oxfordaviation.net)?
Apparently more news from OAT on Monday....
This a rejig of the APP, or something new?
ef
Apparently more news from OAT on Monday....
This a rejig of the APP, or something new?
ef
Last edited by easyflyer; 17th Jun 2006 at 10:14.
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I would guess it is probably another scheme like the ones they have run for the likes of Excel and Thomas Cook etc in the past.... but that is a guess
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Hey guys,
I would just like to point out a few errors in your posts regarding OAT and the APP F/O course!
For a start only 5 hours of IFR flying is conducted in Arizona with these 5 hours being basic instrument flying! The rest is conducted in the UK with 20hrs on the Seneca and 30hrs in the FNPTII trainer!
Furthermore the training value of which is not dependent on what airspace they are flown in, as they do not use comm radios or radio navaids for these lessons. Like I said the IFR flying in Arizona is basic instruments!
Also Soviet Block you state that FNPTII are of little value due to the beechcraft layout! In fact the only major difference is the location of the engine instruments! The rest in terms of instrument layout is identical to a Seneca! And well a pilot who cannot get to grips with this small change will surely struggle at any airline selection in the sim stage unless it is conducted on a sim identical to the one he or she trained on!
Also if your insulting OAT and there FNPTII Sims then nobody should train at cabair and FTE either cause there MCCs are conducted on Beechcraft sims and Hawker Biz jet, surly they are not preparing you to fly large airliners!
So please before you slate OAT or any school make sure your facts are correct!!
I would just like to point out a few errors in your posts regarding OAT and the APP F/O course!
For a start only 5 hours of IFR flying is conducted in Arizona with these 5 hours being basic instrument flying! The rest is conducted in the UK with 20hrs on the Seneca and 30hrs in the FNPTII trainer!
Furthermore the training value of which is not dependent on what airspace they are flown in, as they do not use comm radios or radio navaids for these lessons. Like I said the IFR flying in Arizona is basic instruments!
Also Soviet Block you state that FNPTII are of little value due to the beechcraft layout! In fact the only major difference is the location of the engine instruments! The rest in terms of instrument layout is identical to a Seneca! And well a pilot who cannot get to grips with this small change will surely struggle at any airline selection in the sim stage unless it is conducted on a sim identical to the one he or she trained on!
Also if your insulting OAT and there FNPTII Sims then nobody should train at cabair and FTE either cause there MCCs are conducted on Beechcraft sims and Hawker Biz jet, surly they are not preparing you to fly large airliners!
So please before you slate OAT or any school make sure your facts are correct!!
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I'm not saying anything about whether or not to train at other schools, I'm sure they too have their fair share of marketing spin, I seek only to warn the niave (as I was once) that oxford market the fnpt2's as seneca sims when they simply are not. They are at best basic instrument machines, and yes as far as procedures go they have some training value, but as for handling the aircraft I found they were detrimental to progress esspecially as there were frequently up to 15 day gaps between flights because of the farcical way the ops desk is run there.
I also do not wish to say that any pilot should rely on type familiarity however when your sole aim is to pass the IR then you won't care so much about questions of ego such as 'if I can do this on my type I should be able to do it on another' the aim is to get through and pass... another b/s line oxford love at the open days by the way - we train you above the levels required - BULL
Oh and by the way, I did pass an airline sim assessment some time ago, on a type and sim which I'd never flown before.
I also do not wish to say that any pilot should rely on type familiarity however when your sole aim is to pass the IR then you won't care so much about questions of ego such as 'if I can do this on my type I should be able to do it on another' the aim is to get through and pass... another b/s line oxford love at the open days by the way - we train you above the levels required - BULL
Oh and by the way, I did pass an airline sim assessment some time ago, on a type and sim which I'd never flown before.
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Hi there!
Just thought i'd give my 2 cents, i have a feeling that it is likely to be another Thomas Cook scheme as their training Captain sat in on one of my ground school lectures a few months ago. Also it's been about a year since TCX announced their previous scheme!
Regards
James
Just thought i'd give my 2 cents, i have a feeling that it is likely to be another Thomas Cook scheme as their training Captain sat in on one of my ground school lectures a few months ago. Also it's been about a year since TCX announced their previous scheme!
Regards
James
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adwjenk
Your information is out of date.
Not so anymore I'm afraid - majority of applied I/F is now taught in the U.S. & the r/t, procedures & airspace structure are somewhat different to the U.K.
Your information is out of date.
Furthermore the training value of which is not dependent on what airspace they are flown in, as they do not use comm radios or radio navaids for these lessons. Like I said the IFR flying in Arizona is basic instruments!
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Regis Potter,
Well one of us has out of date or incorrect info but i would be greatful if you could share your sources with me!
So far as i am aware it is only 5hrs of basic insturment training at OAT in Goodyear! No more no less, there is a fair bit of Seneca flying out there but that is because students take their CPL skills test in the Seneca!
Well one of us has out of date or incorrect info but i would be greatful if you could share your sources with me!
So far as i am aware it is only 5hrs of basic insturment training at OAT in Goodyear! No more no less, there is a fair bit of Seneca flying out there but that is because students take their CPL skills test in the Seneca!
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Adwjenk is correct in saying that there is only 5hrs instrument flying in the seneca in Goodyear, the majority multi flying is VFR in preperation for the CPL test which is conducted in the Seneca.
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adwjenk, Blinkz,
Total I/F at GYR is 43hrs30 last time I checked the syllabus. Much of this is applied & I stand by my previous remarks.
Instrument flying skills & procedures are the same for both single & multi-engine aircraft so you learn the technique on the single, then learn how to fly a twin & apply the same techniques.
In fairness, there is a good deal of synthetic consolidation back at Oxford so that is the place where the 'local' procedures will be adopted.
Total I/F at GYR is 43hrs30 last time I checked the syllabus. Much of this is applied & I stand by my previous remarks.
Instrument flying skills & procedures are the same for both single & multi-engine aircraft so you learn the technique on the single, then learn how to fly a twin & apply the same techniques.
In fairness, there is a good deal of synthetic consolidation back at Oxford so that is the place where the 'local' procedures will be adopted.
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I was told the students now do a multi-engine CPL before coming back to the UK so that they can fully concentrate on their IR and changing weather / airspace conditions. I know what you're saying about applied instrument flying, but a knowledge of principles in practice allows for much quicker adaption on return from the US surely?
Are you saying it'd make the course easier to do no applied instrument training and do it all upon return from the US, and presumably in the same amount of course hours and without a price hike?
Upon looking round Oxford and talking with the students already there you begin to understand that common sense comes into most of the so called 'problems' people arise. Not all students are happy, but you obviously can't please everyone and to be honest, when talking with a few I thought to myself "I'm not suprised you're disgrutled" just because they're that type of person!
You talk about the fact that the R/T and procedures are different and you say this as if it's a bad thing... Well if you were coming back to the UK, you already KNOW that you're gonna have to brush up on UK RT - so why not use OATmedia's RT comms software? I used the VFR stuff at my local club doing my PPL and it was fantastic.
I understand it's a problem, but if you have common sense you'd do something about it...
Are you saying it'd make the course easier to do no applied instrument training and do it all upon return from the US, and presumably in the same amount of course hours and without a price hike?
Upon looking round Oxford and talking with the students already there you begin to understand that common sense comes into most of the so called 'problems' people arise. Not all students are happy, but you obviously can't please everyone and to be honest, when talking with a few I thought to myself "I'm not suprised you're disgrutled" just because they're that type of person!
You talk about the fact that the R/T and procedures are different and you say this as if it's a bad thing... Well if you were coming back to the UK, you already KNOW that you're gonna have to brush up on UK RT - so why not use OATmedia's RT comms software? I used the VFR stuff at my local club doing my PPL and it was fantastic.
I understand it's a problem, but if you have common sense you'd do something about it...
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Originally Posted by Regis Potter
Total I/F at GYR is 43hrs30 last time I checked the syllabus
May I strongly recommend you check the syllabus again, or indeed contact OAT who will point you in the right direction!!
Last edited by adwjenk; 18th Jun 2006 at 17:08.
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adwjenk
What course are you planning to do with OAT? If APP then I can assure you that the syllabus content I have described is accurate at the time of writing. Note that I'm quoting mostly single-engine IFR totals; there are 5 hrs ME/IFR & I stand completely by my remarks concerning the applied I/F training out in the U.S. I am not suggesting that the I/F training conducted abroad is in any way substandard, only that the environment is different to the U.K.
I'm unsure of the source of your information but I can tell you that it sounds as if you may be confused about the course content. If you contact OAT & enquire about the single-engine VFR/IFR content they should clear things up for you.
Regards
Regis
What course are you planning to do with OAT? If APP then I can assure you that the syllabus content I have described is accurate at the time of writing. Note that I'm quoting mostly single-engine IFR totals; there are 5 hrs ME/IFR & I stand completely by my remarks concerning the applied I/F training out in the U.S. I am not suggesting that the I/F training conducted abroad is in any way substandard, only that the environment is different to the U.K.
I'm unsure of the source of your information but I can tell you that it sounds as if you may be confused about the course content. If you contact OAT & enquire about the single-engine VFR/IFR content they should clear things up for you.
Regards
Regis
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Regis,
I understand the syllabus and yes you are correct with the I/F time that you have quoted!
Yes I am aware the airspace in the USA is very different to that of the UK!
With OAT you still get the minimum required hours in the UK required for the issue of a CAA IR from an integrated course, which currently stands at 55 hours! Also the CAA will not let any training outside JAA airspace count towards the issue of a CAA IR! So all the I/F time in the U.S is additional to what a student would require so would defiantly benefit the student on return to the UK!
Also if you are criticising OAT for doing instrument training out of UK airspace then shouldn’t you be using the same argument in the FTE topic, since all there IR training is conducted in Spain!
Happy flying
I understand the syllabus and yes you are correct with the I/F time that you have quoted!
Yes I am aware the airspace in the USA is very different to that of the UK!
With OAT you still get the minimum required hours in the UK required for the issue of a CAA IR from an integrated course, which currently stands at 55 hours! Also the CAA will not let any training outside JAA airspace count towards the issue of a CAA IR! So all the I/F time in the U.S is additional to what a student would require so would defiantly benefit the student on return to the UK!
Also if you are criticising OAT for doing instrument training out of UK airspace then shouldn’t you be using the same argument in the FTE topic, since all there IR training is conducted in Spain!
Happy flying