Oxford Air Training
Join Date: Oct 2005
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They do not 'cover you' for the first half of the training costs...if you do not meet the standard they will refund up to £30k 'at their discretion'. Well before half way through you've already parted - or the bank has on your behalf - with the full £60k (not including interest). Therefore you may as well have paid your local club £30k (but at their discretion it could be £60k) for 80 or so hours...and in fact that would be better, because at least you would be in UK airspace with all of its intricacies rather than the apparant airspace void that is NZ!
Join Date: Sep 2005
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bestkeptsecret,
No, no and so what! At least they have RT standards better than a U.S. trucker, which you could expect anywhere in North America. Look into the details before posting something like that.
LDF,
Hell yes!! And I bet you can't wait.... but the best on offer is by no means perfect.......
No, no and so what! At least they have RT standards better than a U.S. trucker, which you could expect anywhere in North America. Look into the details before posting something like that.
LDF,
Hell yes!! And I bet you can't wait.... but the best on offer is by no means perfect.......
Join Date: Jul 2005
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geturwingover
I have to, not disagree ,but to really put into perspective what you said in your first post on this topic.
1 - I think the issue of clean rooms is not really important, I would be more than glad to have free accomedation throughout the training. I assume they are of fairly good quality and cant be as bad as some of the houses ive seen at uni lol
2 - small points about the map, I wouldnt be to bothered about that when you put up a 60K loan, although a laminate would be nice.
3 - I dont think CTC as a training organisation are required to offer cadets friends and family free trips and I doubt very few FTO's would, its just not good business sence, eats into profit.
4 - sorta let you have this one too. I see your point but at the end of the day CTC does offer a higher chance of employment than other schemes. If you take Easy's cadet salary of about 22K a year by the time you add sector pay that will be about 26K a year, which is stil pretty good for someone my age with your loan payments on top. If you take someone who took a 60K loan out for OAT they will still be paying it, but out of there salary, whilst the guy from CTC will have it added to their salarly so in the end the numbers probably equal out in the end, roughly.
I have to, not disagree ,but to really put into perspective what you said in your first post on this topic.
1 - I think the issue of clean rooms is not really important, I would be more than glad to have free accomedation throughout the training. I assume they are of fairly good quality and cant be as bad as some of the houses ive seen at uni lol
2 - small points about the map, I wouldnt be to bothered about that when you put up a 60K loan, although a laminate would be nice.
3 - I dont think CTC as a training organisation are required to offer cadets friends and family free trips and I doubt very few FTO's would, its just not good business sence, eats into profit.
4 - sorta let you have this one too. I see your point but at the end of the day CTC does offer a higher chance of employment than other schemes. If you take Easy's cadet salary of about 22K a year by the time you add sector pay that will be about 26K a year, which is stil pretty good for someone my age with your loan payments on top. If you take someone who took a 60K loan out for OAT they will still be paying it, but out of there salary, whilst the guy from CTC will have it added to their salarly so in the end the numbers probably equal out in the end, roughly.
Join Date: May 2004
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I've always found the difference in opinions on the finances of the CTC scheme fascinating. To be honest I still can't work out if I regard it as sponsorship of any form, and it really does depend which way you choose to look at it.
It is interesting that Scroggs views it in no way as sponsorship, and I'm not going to argue with that too much - he knows far more than I. The term 'partnership' is used regularly by CTC, and perhaps that is the best way to look at it. You do your bit (stump up cash via a loan and pass the course) and CTC do the rest.
For those who are planning to join the scheme perhaps the best way to look at it is to view the bond as a notional value - if all goes to plan with your training it is not something that will have a major financial bearing on your future. The only case in which the bond really becomes a tangible debt is if things go wrong, which is a risk you have to accept.
As for the chaps in NZ worried about the cost of laminating maps -it's ok guys, all maps in Bournemouth are laminated.
It is interesting that Scroggs views it in no way as sponsorship, and I'm not going to argue with that too much - he knows far more than I. The term 'partnership' is used regularly by CTC, and perhaps that is the best way to look at it. You do your bit (stump up cash via a loan and pass the course) and CTC do the rest.
For those who are planning to join the scheme perhaps the best way to look at it is to view the bond as a notional value - if all goes to plan with your training it is not something that will have a major financial bearing on your future. The only case in which the bond really becomes a tangible debt is if things go wrong, which is a risk you have to accept.
As for the chaps in NZ worried about the cost of laminating maps -it's ok guys, all maps in Bournemouth are laminated.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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geturwingover,
some good points but...
The accomodation is free minus two cleaning bills throughout your entire stay in NZ (all bills are paid for in NZ also). You do pay bills in Bournemouth but the standard of accomodation is excellent.
OAT guys pay £60k and on top of that have to pay for all their accomodation.....and quite possibly a type rating (another £25k).
The lamination of maps is a strange one though....
Regarding the issue of taking family/friends up on flights. Well basically cadets were taking family/girlfriends up on cross country flights on a frequent basis. What CTC have said is that these are training flights, so you should be concentrating on preparation for the end of phase test, not showing friends/family the sites.
I think thats fair enough. You can obviously take other cadets up.
As for the CTC cadets going to BA. Well they are basically self sponsored.
The scheme is essentially designed around EasyJet and Thomas Cook. Cadets not going to either of those airlines obviously lose some of the tax advantages. However, BA being the exception, they won't have to do any formal selection to get into any of the partner airlines. This is the major benefit of CTC. Access to all the best jobs around, with no experience. You can also turn two airlines down if your not interested. But you have to take the third offer or your on your own!
some good points but...
The accomodation is free minus two cleaning bills throughout your entire stay in NZ (all bills are paid for in NZ also). You do pay bills in Bournemouth but the standard of accomodation is excellent.
OAT guys pay £60k and on top of that have to pay for all their accomodation.....and quite possibly a type rating (another £25k).
The lamination of maps is a strange one though....
Regarding the issue of taking family/friends up on flights. Well basically cadets were taking family/girlfriends up on cross country flights on a frequent basis. What CTC have said is that these are training flights, so you should be concentrating on preparation for the end of phase test, not showing friends/family the sites.
I think thats fair enough. You can obviously take other cadets up.
As for the CTC cadets going to BA. Well they are basically self sponsored.
The scheme is essentially designed around EasyJet and Thomas Cook. Cadets not going to either of those airlines obviously lose some of the tax advantages. However, BA being the exception, they won't have to do any formal selection to get into any of the partner airlines. This is the major benefit of CTC. Access to all the best jobs around, with no experience. You can also turn two airlines down if your not interested. But you have to take the third offer or your on your own!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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oxford or ctc
....sorry bout before, pressed the ejector button!May i add my two penny's worth.
After alot of soul searching i finally ended up going to OAT.
Whoever says OAT promises a 98% chance of getting a job is telling pokies. On the current waypoint programme which am on,you have to achieve the neccessary criteria while doing your ground school in order to qualify for a place on the programme.Should you be successful at the end of it they then recommend you,but no gurantees.
Otherwise so far,am glad i chose OAT after having toured EPTA,Cabair cranfield and AFT.You pay more than other outfits but you get quality training and by the way you also have to put in some effort.The teaching process is so simplified and the instructors are great. Week 4 is down,22 to go........
After alot of soul searching i finally ended up going to OAT.
Whoever says OAT promises a 98% chance of getting a job is telling pokies. On the current waypoint programme which am on,you have to achieve the neccessary criteria while doing your ground school in order to qualify for a place on the programme.Should you be successful at the end of it they then recommend you,but no gurantees.
Otherwise so far,am glad i chose OAT after having toured EPTA,Cabair cranfield and AFT.You pay more than other outfits but you get quality training and by the way you also have to put in some effort.The teaching process is so simplified and the instructors are great. Week 4 is down,22 to go........
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Oxford Air Traiining (merged)
The following is taken off OATs new "waypoint scheme" website:
"We are pleased to announce our new Modular Training Programme - waypoint.
waypoint is a new Modular training course solution from OAT to enable some of the airlines with whom we work closely to consider recruiting modular graduates for their first airline job. However, they will only do so provided they achieve the required standard, but more importantly, provided they have carried out all their training with one provider - Oxford Aviation Training."
So, after years of telling us that airlines only like integrated students OAT are now telling us that they will after all take modular students, but ONLY IF THEY COME FROM THEIR SCHOOL!
What a compete load of tosh. The way that they have taken the business of flight training into being a marketing game which plays of the hopes and fears of young pilot wannabes to gain custom for their flashy, overpriced training programmes quite frankly disgusts me! The problem is that for every cynical, mature wannabe such as myself and many other PPRUNERS there will be many more fresh faced, straight from school, daddy funded wannabes who believe the hype.
My advice to any potential suckers out there,
if your gonna go integrated choose Cabair, a real flying school not a marketing circus.
Better still in my mind to go modular, there is still little chance of getting a job with minimum hours after finishing an integrated course. With the money you save by choosing this route you will be able to get yer FI rating and build your hours up to a more credible level, or even do a type rating and be better off in each case.
Rant over!
"We are pleased to announce our new Modular Training Programme - waypoint.
waypoint is a new Modular training course solution from OAT to enable some of the airlines with whom we work closely to consider recruiting modular graduates for their first airline job. However, they will only do so provided they achieve the required standard, but more importantly, provided they have carried out all their training with one provider - Oxford Aviation Training."
So, after years of telling us that airlines only like integrated students OAT are now telling us that they will after all take modular students, but ONLY IF THEY COME FROM THEIR SCHOOL!
What a compete load of tosh. The way that they have taken the business of flight training into being a marketing game which plays of the hopes and fears of young pilot wannabes to gain custom for their flashy, overpriced training programmes quite frankly disgusts me! The problem is that for every cynical, mature wannabe such as myself and many other PPRUNERS there will be many more fresh faced, straight from school, daddy funded wannabes who believe the hype.
My advice to any potential suckers out there,
if your gonna go integrated choose Cabair, a real flying school not a marketing circus.
Better still in my mind to go modular, there is still little chance of getting a job with minimum hours after finishing an integrated course. With the money you save by choosing this route you will be able to get yer FI rating and build your hours up to a more credible level, or even do a type rating and be better off in each case.
Rant over!
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
well actually even though i am quite anti the marketing blurb for the intergrated course.
The way point modular has alot going for it.
The price is towards the top of the market but isn't the most expensive.
The ground school course does the job.
The instructors will be the same as the guys on the intergrated course get so nothing new there.
You do get the name and the report if they do make a difference. ( I suspect not though but it might give you the edge with 2-3 carriers).
Oxford isn't a bad school you could do alot worse but also a lot better depending on YOUR method of learning. Some people prefer the small personal school and others the big crowd. Visit and make your mind up.
MJ
The way point modular has alot going for it.
The price is towards the top of the market but isn't the most expensive.
The ground school course does the job.
The instructors will be the same as the guys on the intergrated course get so nothing new there.
You do get the name and the report if they do make a difference. ( I suspect not though but it might give you the edge with 2-3 carriers).
Oxford isn't a bad school you could do alot worse but also a lot better depending on YOUR method of learning. Some people prefer the small personal school and others the big crowd. Visit and make your mind up.
MJ
Join Date: May 2001
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
Ho ho. Here, get this, my mate learned to fly in America, and guess what? He's now flying JAR Land Airbuses 
Join Date: May 2003
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
It really amazes me how some people can be so stuck up. As has been said, if you don't like it, don't go there! Why do you feel the need to come here and shout about how crap you think it is? Have you been on the course?? If not then your not in much of a position to comment. If you DO feel the need to comment then why don't you consider maybe making your point in a slightly more mature and reasoned way.
Yes oxford are well known for the strong, and sometimes misleading marketing, but thats life! Oxford is a business and without people going to it then it would fail, there is nothing wrong with trying to attract customers. In all my conversations with oxford I have NEVER been told that they are the only option and that they will get you a job. All I have ever been told is what they think are their strong points and that I should visit all the schools and make MY OWN decision about the courses.
Yes oxford are well known for the strong, and sometimes misleading marketing, but thats life! Oxford is a business and without people going to it then it would fail, there is nothing wrong with trying to attract customers. In all my conversations with oxford I have NEVER been told that they are the only option and that they will get you a job. All I have ever been told is what they think are their strong points and that I should visit all the schools and make MY OWN decision about the courses.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
Fully agree Blinkz, it was because of what i was told at Oxford that i went and had a look at all the other schools. Im still going to Oxford though because i think that it is better than the other schools that i looked round. Your decision may be different rooney
Anyways which ever way you go, good luck!
Anyways which ever way you go, good luck!
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
I take it that all you jokers are Oxford students.
I never said that OAT was crap, my guess is its no better or worse than any other school out there. I was merely commenting on their marketing statements, which are CRAP even if the school might not be. All im saying is THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE, DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!
I never said that OAT was crap, my guess is its no better or worse than any other school out there. I was merely commenting on their marketing statements, which are CRAP even if the school might not be. All im saying is THINK FOR YOURSELVES PEOPLE, DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
rooney, chill man. Like i said, you have made your choice and i have made mine. No one believes everything that they read and are told but that doesnt mean that everything that is said to you is crap. Alot of it is, like with everything in life, you have to pick out the good and bad points and make your decisions from there. Your decision is different too mine and its good that people can have a choice.
Like i said mate, Good luck!
Like i said mate, Good luck!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Re: Oxford Aviaiton "Waypoint Scheme". Yet more marketing spin.
Oxfords modular course looks quite tempting only because of there training reputation but the only concern I would have is over instructor/student ratio and aircraft availability....a few posts in the past have led me to believe that delays in the region of 1-6wks can be expected. Although, dont know how accurate that is...I will look into this nearer my time, but Oxford is definately on my list of modular schools to consider for CPL/IR....