European Flight Training (EFT)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: northumbria (ideally)
Age: 45
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mccluskey56 ,
I am the most junior instructor at EFT with 600hrs. TT I have all my JAA ratings and all of my FAA ratings, thats alot of flight tests! The other instructors at EFT all have in excess of 1500 TT, also with all JAA and FAA ratings. I from time to time may have a hair out of place but you should never judge a book by their cover!
I am the most junior instructor at EFT with 600hrs. TT I have all my JAA ratings and all of my FAA ratings, thats alot of flight tests! The other instructors at EFT all have in excess of 1500 TT, also with all JAA and FAA ratings. I from time to time may have a hair out of place but you should never judge a book by their cover!
Hi there
The standard of training is good, the weather is highly variable, they have very little space in their premises, they have/had no sim or access to a sim of any kind(not even the most basic Frasca or Elite).The fleet in 2001 consisted of five very tatty Be76s, of which only one (6047W) was regarded by themselves as fit for use in tests,a very motley bunch(7) of Cessna 172s and an Arrow(which was the best of the single-engined fleet).EFT piggybacked on the Ari-Ben Aviator school, which is a shadow of it's former self,which meant that EFT shared everything, and I mean evrything, with Aviator.The Aviator advert which is commonly seen in flight magazines is a true work of fiction, as none of the Be76 aircraft had functioning radars, heaters, propellor unfeathering accumulators and you were not allowed to fly outside the State.Because there was no night maintenance, downtime during daylight hours was often critical, in terms of aircraft availability.All hours building in the twins is done at night only.They also charged you 3% on the Visa, as everyone had European credit cards.Only US-issued cards were exempt this charge.Naturally, this is not mentioned on the EFT website.
Shall I go on?
I wouldn't go there again.
regards
TDD
The standard of training is good, the weather is highly variable, they have very little space in their premises, they have/had no sim or access to a sim of any kind(not even the most basic Frasca or Elite).The fleet in 2001 consisted of five very tatty Be76s, of which only one (6047W) was regarded by themselves as fit for use in tests,a very motley bunch(7) of Cessna 172s and an Arrow(which was the best of the single-engined fleet).EFT piggybacked on the Ari-Ben Aviator school, which is a shadow of it's former self,which meant that EFT shared everything, and I mean evrything, with Aviator.The Aviator advert which is commonly seen in flight magazines is a true work of fiction, as none of the Be76 aircraft had functioning radars, heaters, propellor unfeathering accumulators and you were not allowed to fly outside the State.Because there was no night maintenance, downtime during daylight hours was often critical, in terms of aircraft availability.All hours building in the twins is done at night only.They also charged you 3% on the Visa, as everyone had European credit cards.Only US-issued cards were exempt this charge.Naturally, this is not mentioned on the EFT website.
Shall I go on?
I wouldn't go there again.
regards
TDD
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: anywhere my work is!
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EFT2
Ok guys thanks for your help
I think looking at the website and from negative comments here i prefer FTE instead of EFT.
have already filled the online application form for FTE so hopefully will be moving down to spain soon
thanks and good luck to all of you
I think looking at the website and from negative comments here i prefer FTE instead of EFT.
have already filled the online application form for FTE so hopefully will be moving down to spain soon
thanks and good luck to all of you
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smart move Captain N. I went their and had many many problems. The instructors was good and Trevor was a good guy. The C172's and PA28 was not so good. They did not seem to have many mechanics to keep the aircraft working as they should. The Beechs was always broken and students was complaining a lot!! The aircrafts was also very expensive. EFT rent the aircraft off Aribun Aviator (strange guy who runs this school) who rent the aircraft off someone else. This means many people was making a profit out of you. If EFT could get C172's on there own not from Aribun then maybe it would be saving you money. There was also a crash of an EFT student. He died but I don't know what happened. I found this link:-
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA06FA007&rpt=p
I think FTE is very good school!!
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=MIA06FA007&rpt=p
I think FTE is very good school!!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Notts
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went to EFT in the summer this year and found the flight school training to be good. As mentioned before the financial management side of EFT is a mess, so watch your money. The aircraft are 172's and BE76's which is just like most flight schools. They have a full time maintenance team which work round the clock to keep the planes moving, but unfortunately they do have perionds when there are not enough planes for training, especially if you are due to fly the Arrow! One tip, the student housing is the old Pam Am building, which was fantastic and on site, but I found out EFT charged their students 600 dollars whereas the Aviator students were charged between 450 - 500 dollars a month?
Regards
Sdryh
Regards
Sdryh
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Christchurch, Dorset
Age: 54
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be fair to EFT, the Credit Card Surcharge of 3% IS mentioned on their price list and not particularly hidden away. How long its been that way I don't know. I certainly think I'll avoid that payment option if I sign up with them though !
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had really bad experience with them,just to give a brief summary the instructors were crap and the management was not serious,they acted like they were desperate for money,they played all kind of tricks to make people pay more from what they were told to expect in the beginning.
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 50
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couple of points to consider:
Why 172s if you are going on to Arrows? Not a huge change, but other schools I know use either Warrior/Arrow or Sundowner/Sierra. OK so I personally dislike the 172 and others might not, but it does seem odd.
Are you a CPL instructor, razzele? Those hours are somewhat on the low side of what is commonly found in schools even for someone just starting to teach CPL. I undertand that a change is due and the CAA wants all new CPL instructors to have commercial experience so of course that will mean it is unlikely new instructors will have less than 1000 hours, once they have the required instruction experience too.
Why 172s if you are going on to Arrows? Not a huge change, but other schools I know use either Warrior/Arrow or Sundowner/Sierra. OK so I personally dislike the 172 and others might not, but it does seem odd.
Are you a CPL instructor, razzele? Those hours are somewhat on the low side of what is commonly found in schools even for someone just starting to teach CPL. I undertand that a change is due and the CAA wants all new CPL instructors to have commercial experience so of course that will mean it is unlikely new instructors will have less than 1000 hours, once they have the required instruction experience too.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: uk
Age: 49
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EFT will attempt to bleed you dry for every bit of money that you have. The instructors are all trained under jaa and faa ways so the training is not as you would be used to in britain. The briefing side of things is minimal to non existant which will add money to your training. The time keeping of the instructors is good, the time keeping of the owners and the examiners is terrible. The aircraft are all old and with only one arrow for the cpl the course will be disjointed due it continually going for routine checks and for it being grounded for another stupid little fault, and occasionally some major faults as well. The instructor lottery is the next thing one instructor will be good the rest will be awful. A good instructor will get you done in the time, a bad instructor will get you done in twice the time, however the standard of which you will pass at would probably not get you a partial in the uk.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, some the instructors very good but others pretty bad I guess. One EFT instructor I hear crash a Beech earlier this year. He forgot to put the landing gear down!! Good instruction?
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 50
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is a little unfair. Many people have done it - you must have heard "those that have, and those that will". I have seen the aftermath of a CPL instructor allowing it, and I am assured that one of the CAA examiners has done it.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: west Midlands. UK
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EFT2
I did my CPL with EFT a couple of years ago, plus the initial part of the MEIR, before going to Bournemouth. Whilst I was happy with the standard of tuition with regards the CPL, the same could not be said of the MEIR (As you may be aware, you cannot do the complete course at EFT). At that time the only IR Instructor was <<name removed>> (who was clocking up a phenomenal number of hours at the time!!). I was not the first student who threatened to give him a good hiding due to his pompous, arrogant, condescending attitude. If that wasn't bad enough, it transpired that his tuition was well below par - all the students returning to Bournemouth found out that we were ill-prepared (basic stuff such as badly taught holding patterns etc).
Now of course it may be that <<Name removed>> is no longer the only IR Instructor at EFT (Indeed he may no longer be there at all if Trevor has wised up) but if I were to have my time again I would check out who was doing this most important aspect of my training (the CPL is enjoyable compared to the IR - and a damn sight cheaper!!)
My advice (for what its worth) is this: Do your CPL and ME in sunny Florida but don't waste your money on the IR over there - do it in the country where you will be tested.
Now of course it may be that <<Name removed>> is no longer the only IR Instructor at EFT (Indeed he may no longer be there at all if Trevor has wised up) but if I were to have my time again I would check out who was doing this most important aspect of my training (the CPL is enjoyable compared to the IR - and a damn sight cheaper!!)
My advice (for what its worth) is this: Do your CPL and ME in sunny Florida but don't waste your money on the IR over there - do it in the country where you will be tested.
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:05.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 47
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that some of these posts are all a little unfair. Having been an instructor at EFT for the past 2 years and having regularly taught the CPL I resent being called crap! I am sure the other instructors do too. I have have also never played any tricks on individuals to extract more cash. It's quite simple, the CAA set the standards and if the student doesn't meet them then thay have to repeat that lesson. The CFI and instructors at EFT worked very hard to employ a high set of operating and teaching standards all of which are followed religiously. I know all of the instructors personally and they are a credit to the school.
To answer some of the other points raised; there have been issues in the past with the facilities and they are small, but they have recently been improved and make an enormous difference to a students experience at the school. The accommodation has also improved with the use of the old Pan Am facilities.
It is true the aircraft are old and some have definitely seen better days, but the quality of the maintenance is again second to none - I personally wouldn't get in any aircraft I thought was not airworthy. The maintenance staff and fleet have been increased in size so there is now minimal delay to students for tech issues. I will also concede that the school could benefit from another complex aircraft for the CPL students, but this debate has been raging since the school started. Even so I would hazard a guess that the average CPL for the average student is still only 3 weeks.
I think that EFT provide a good product at a good price, there are always things that need developing, but in my time there the positives always outweighed the negatives.
It is also important to note that there are many recent graduates of EFT, both students and instructors that have moved on and got FO jobs with good company's in Europe. Myself included.
Safe flying to you all.
To answer some of the other points raised; there have been issues in the past with the facilities and they are small, but they have recently been improved and make an enormous difference to a students experience at the school. The accommodation has also improved with the use of the old Pan Am facilities.
It is true the aircraft are old and some have definitely seen better days, but the quality of the maintenance is again second to none - I personally wouldn't get in any aircraft I thought was not airworthy. The maintenance staff and fleet have been increased in size so there is now minimal delay to students for tech issues. I will also concede that the school could benefit from another complex aircraft for the CPL students, but this debate has been raging since the school started. Even so I would hazard a guess that the average CPL for the average student is still only 3 weeks.
I think that EFT provide a good product at a good price, there are always things that need developing, but in my time there the positives always outweighed the negatives.
It is also important to note that there are many recent graduates of EFT, both students and instructors that have moved on and got FO jobs with good company's in Europe. Myself included.
Safe flying to you all.
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:06.
Hi there
Mark,
with all due respect,EFT was a shambles. Piggybacking on Aviator is bad news, full-stop. That set-up only worked when there were few FAA students.When I was there, the maintenance people would not work nights because their pay was bad and MC wouldn't up the rates to get them to work nights nor would he buy insurance to cover night work.The hangar could only admit one aircraft at a time.The Sierra never flew because the Chief Pilot(Aviator) had crashed the other and <<XX>> had grounded him and the other Sierra, although it was kept servicable.There were never 8 BE76s as claimed,only five.There was only two PCs between both schools. The accomodation was overpriced, the briefings were inadequate, the cars were overpriced and semi-derelict (and <<XX>> continuously hassled people for money, even those who could prove they had paid up!).
The comment about <<XX>> being arrogant was true enough.He was also a shareholder in the school, so he had a different motivation than the rest of the instructors.I got on ok with him, but I know others who had a bad time with him.
the major pain was the difference in rates paid by FAA students to that being paid by JAA students.Quite why a Yank could pay $145/hr for a Beech 76 and the JAA guys paid $245/hr was never satisfactorily explained, given that Trevor hired them from <<XX>> for about $50/block hour.Also, the fact that examiners were coming all the way from Michigan, on only one weekend a month put huge time pressure on them and the students.All it took was one delayed airline flight or one bad-weather day and the schedule went to bits, at the student's expense.The school's only saving grace was the skill of the instructors.
regards
TDD
Mark,
with all due respect,EFT was a shambles. Piggybacking on Aviator is bad news, full-stop. That set-up only worked when there were few FAA students.When I was there, the maintenance people would not work nights because their pay was bad and MC wouldn't up the rates to get them to work nights nor would he buy insurance to cover night work.The hangar could only admit one aircraft at a time.The Sierra never flew because the Chief Pilot(Aviator) had crashed the other and <<XX>> had grounded him and the other Sierra, although it was kept servicable.There were never 8 BE76s as claimed,only five.There was only two PCs between both schools. The accomodation was overpriced, the briefings were inadequate, the cars were overpriced and semi-derelict (and <<XX>> continuously hassled people for money, even those who could prove they had paid up!).
The comment about <<XX>> being arrogant was true enough.He was also a shareholder in the school, so he had a different motivation than the rest of the instructors.I got on ok with him, but I know others who had a bad time with him.
the major pain was the difference in rates paid by FAA students to that being paid by JAA students.Quite why a Yank could pay $145/hr for a Beech 76 and the JAA guys paid $245/hr was never satisfactorily explained, given that Trevor hired them from <<XX>> for about $50/block hour.Also, the fact that examiners were coming all the way from Michigan, on only one weekend a month put huge time pressure on them and the students.All it took was one delayed airline flight or one bad-weather day and the schedule went to bits, at the student's expense.The school's only saving grace was the skill of the instructors.
regards
TDD
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:07.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: LGW
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mark Collins
It is also important to note that there are many recent graduates of EFT, both students and instructors that have moved on and got FO jobs with good company's in Europe. Myself included.
I`m one of those students, now on the B737 with a top company!! Hey Mark, thanks for CPL instruction, top notch mate.
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:08.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 47
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TDD,
I can't really dispute any of your points as I have heard similar stories from the beginnings of EFT. I think the problems you experienced were part of the growing pains of the school. In my time there I have certainly seen a vast improvement in the facilities and way that the school is managed. <<XX>> is a difficult individual to work with sometimes and that means that EFT sometimes suffered, but I think EFT and Ari Ben have reached a much happier working relationship. This in turn has changed the mentality of the people that work there and things seem to run alot smoother. Improvements have been made; new cars, new computers, new accomodations. So I think a student attending the school would have a different experience to the one you had.
EFT has always had good potential to be a great school and I think some of this potential has been realised, there are of course still further steps to take. The outlook is much more progressive and the management and the instructors are much more willing to develop the products they have.
On the money side, I think there will always be disputes as people are paying a lot out of there own pocket. Flight training is so cash intensive that maybe students are chased a little too hard sometimes for money! I think that's what happens at EFT, in my experience they are an honest company though.
Mark.
llesson - Congrats on the job, I think I gave you the "400' set autopilot, read paper" brief, didn't I?!?
I can't really dispute any of your points as I have heard similar stories from the beginnings of EFT. I think the problems you experienced were part of the growing pains of the school. In my time there I have certainly seen a vast improvement in the facilities and way that the school is managed. <<XX>> is a difficult individual to work with sometimes and that means that EFT sometimes suffered, but I think EFT and Ari Ben have reached a much happier working relationship. This in turn has changed the mentality of the people that work there and things seem to run alot smoother. Improvements have been made; new cars, new computers, new accomodations. So I think a student attending the school would have a different experience to the one you had.
EFT has always had good potential to be a great school and I think some of this potential has been realised, there are of course still further steps to take. The outlook is much more progressive and the management and the instructors are much more willing to develop the products they have.
On the money side, I think there will always be disputes as people are paying a lot out of there own pocket. Flight training is so cash intensive that maybe students are chased a little too hard sometimes for money! I think that's what happens at EFT, in my experience they are an honest company though.
Mark.
llesson - Congrats on the job, I think I gave you the "400' set autopilot, read paper" brief, didn't I?!?
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:09.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread is like reading a thread from 2-3 years ago most of the information posted by anyone other than Mark is well out of date. The thread does EFT or this forum any justice as the information provided is generally obsolete.
There are now 7 computers all internet linked, with printer, FAA databanks available at the school the building has been brought up to a good standard with planning desks briefing rooms etc, which to be honest is better than some schools I have visted in the UK.
There are no longer any Sierras at EFT/Ari Ben.
There are 8 or so Duchesses which most of the 80-89% are in full service and not in 100 hours. I myself never experienced any maintance issues I have not experienced in the UK (granted most of my flying was single time)
Accidents happen - trying to implicate any school is unfair based on them, if you look into other schools accident records they will have had them as well.
There are no suprises in the finicial side of things - everything is listed on the website - if you don't read the website properly (It's not in the small print) then your not doing your resarch properly.
The only way I heard of EFT was via the quality of the instruction being high - as had many of the students so I am suprised by the comments regarding this - and I finished my training at EFT this year so my experience is valid. I would strongly recommend EFT on the merits of its instruction standard - and would recommend the school for the commercial side of things. Not everyone will complete the courses in minimum time, and yes you may want to upgrade more time to the Arrow which willl incur extra costs - that's your decision it's not compulsary - I don't know of one school which doesn't sell minimum hour courses - that's marketing and life.
To all those including Mark, who have left EFT and got jobs. Congratulations!
Now let's get this back to recent experience about EFT not information 2 years old (times change) and hearsay - and if you want to discuss Ari Ben I think it should be done in a seperate thread.
Safe Flying.
There are now 7 computers all internet linked, with printer, FAA databanks available at the school the building has been brought up to a good standard with planning desks briefing rooms etc, which to be honest is better than some schools I have visted in the UK.
There are no longer any Sierras at EFT/Ari Ben.
There are 8 or so Duchesses which most of the 80-89% are in full service and not in 100 hours. I myself never experienced any maintance issues I have not experienced in the UK (granted most of my flying was single time)
Accidents happen - trying to implicate any school is unfair based on them, if you look into other schools accident records they will have had them as well.
There are no suprises in the finicial side of things - everything is listed on the website - if you don't read the website properly (It's not in the small print) then your not doing your resarch properly.
The only way I heard of EFT was via the quality of the instruction being high - as had many of the students so I am suprised by the comments regarding this - and I finished my training at EFT this year so my experience is valid. I would strongly recommend EFT on the merits of its instruction standard - and would recommend the school for the commercial side of things. Not everyone will complete the courses in minimum time, and yes you may want to upgrade more time to the Arrow which willl incur extra costs - that's your decision it's not compulsary - I don't know of one school which doesn't sell minimum hour courses - that's marketing and life.
To all those including Mark, who have left EFT and got jobs. Congratulations!
Now let's get this back to recent experience about EFT not information 2 years old (times change) and hearsay - and if you want to discuss Ari Ben I think it should be done in a seperate thread.
Safe Flying.
Last edited by scroggs; 21st Mar 2006 at 15:10.
The Cooler King
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having been a former student of EFT - I will add to what has already been said by Mark and Matthew.
I have nothing but good things to say about the school. And in fact, with regards to them bleeding you dry for every penny that they can, I also have to say that my experience has been to the contrary.
Trevor, Ben and Charlotte actually SAVED me about $800 in training fees last time I was there by putting together a specific package for me - even though it was ME who screwed up!
Aircraft are rented from AriBen - who also rent SOME of their aircraft from another company.
Quality of the aircraft are fine. They are safe and they fly well - no complaints there.
Finally, to the individual who decided to post about the recent accident.....accidents happen. It was very unfortunate, and everyone was really upset about it. However - this gives you no grounds to criticise the school. Accidents in aviation are par for the course - and it's mere childishness to use it to have a stab at EFT or any school for that matter.
Safety at EFT - and I have witnessed this firsthand - is of the utmost importance, so much so, that I will be going back out to them again in September.
I have nothing but good things to say about the school. And in fact, with regards to them bleeding you dry for every penny that they can, I also have to say that my experience has been to the contrary.
Trevor, Ben and Charlotte actually SAVED me about $800 in training fees last time I was there by putting together a specific package for me - even though it was ME who screwed up!
Aircraft are rented from AriBen - who also rent SOME of their aircraft from another company.
Quality of the aircraft are fine. They are safe and they fly well - no complaints there.
Finally, to the individual who decided to post about the recent accident.....accidents happen. It was very unfortunate, and everyone was really upset about it. However - this gives you no grounds to criticise the school. Accidents in aviation are par for the course - and it's mere childishness to use it to have a stab at EFT or any school for that matter.
Safety at EFT - and I have witnessed this firsthand - is of the utmost importance, so much so, that I will be going back out to them again in September.
Last edited by Farrell; 21st Mar 2006 at 21:46.