Logbook and Logging Hours Questions

[mad_jock]

If your PF it should be logged as PICUS, if your PNF its co-pilot.

Logging dual in a multi crew aircraft thats a new one though.

[My names Turkish]

Madjock, Thanks for that. I agree with you, I thought the idea of Dual was a mistake. I am licenced to fly the machine after all, I presume Line Training is not a licencing requirement rather a company requirement? Just wanted to confirm.

[FlightDetent]

You are correct. Dual is for JAR-FCL training, not JAR-OPS courses. Once you have your licence, no need for it.

Mad_jock in correct also in his UK view. In many other JAA countries being PF F/O does not entitle you to log PIC (US) at all.

FD
(the un-real)

[John001]

JEPPESEN (JAR) logbook:Night hours?!

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone out there could help me out regarding filling in my new Jeppesen JAR-FCL logbook.

Column 9 "Operational condition time" - I'm unsure as to whether I must carry forward the 5 hours night flying (from when I did the night rating several months ago) onto succesive pages.
That is, where its written on the bottom "Total from previous pages" should I keep entering these 5 hours at the bottom of Column 9?

Is "total time" comprised SOLELY from the hours in column 10?! For example if I have 300hrs PIC and 80hrs dual but I have 5 night hours at the bottom of column 9 my total time is then 385hrs but is this incorrectly presented?
Should I be leaving out those 5 night hours from the bottom of column 9 and dividing them into PIC and DUAL in Column 10 "Pilot function time"???

That is, I have 3hrs DUAL night and 2hrs PIC night so column 9 would be empty and column 10 would then read:
302hrs PIC, 83hrs DUAL again giving 385hrs TOTAL. But if I did that then I couldn't at all easily keep track of my night hours total in future. Oh the confusion!

Apologies for being so long winded, I'm not even female! (I'm just kiddding ladies!!)

all suggestions greatly appreciated,

thanks,

John.

[FlyingForFun]

I don't have the logbook in front of me, so the column numbers you quote aren't really any help, but I think I know what you're talking about.

Does you logbook have the following columns on the right hand side of the page:

- Night
- Instrument
- P1
- P2
- Dual
- Instructor
- A few columns for simulator time
- Comments

If that's the one, then read on. If not, then I'm thinking of a different logbook to you, so ignore the rest of this post.

The way I think the logbook should be filled in, and the way I fill it in, is to include all hours in the P1 or Dual column as appropriate. (Or the P2 column once the time comes.) Thus your Total Flight Time (which is on the left hand side of the page) should be equal to your P1 + P2 + Dual.

You also indicate, on the first two column of the right hand side, whether the flight time was night or instrument. So for P1 night, the time would go in both the P1 column and the Night column.

So, using the numbers you give, you should have 302 hours P1, 83 hours dual, and your total will be (302+83=)385 hours. You will also have 5 hours in the Night column, but this is not added to the total because you have already included those 5 hours in your P1 and Dual.

These numbers should be added up at the bottom of the page, and all of them copied over to the next page.

Hope that makes sense. It's a little different from other logbooks which have Day columns and Night columns which need to be added together to get the total. No problem tracking your total night hours using the method I've described; the only thing you can't track easily is how much of those night hours are P1 vs Dual.

FFF
------------------

[John001]

Jeppesen night hours

Hi FFF,

thanks for your reply. The way you describe makes the most sense, I thought that was how I should be doing it!
Well I'm off to Madrid shortly to tackle the IR, adios y gracias!

regards

John.

[CVT Pilot]

Which Logbook?

Hi,
I wonder if anyone can help me - I was unsure whether to post this in the training forum or not, however I thought that those with more experience may be able to help better.
I am about to start further training for my CPL/MEP/IR and need a new logbook to see me through and into my career afterwards. I'm currently using a logbook that is only really useable for PPL and was looking at the new Jeppesen European logbook; but have been told that it isn't very good for logging P1/S hours as there isn't really a suitable column.
Could anyone help me on this or suggest a suitable alternative?
Kind Regards,
CVT Pilot.

[Keygrip]

The phrase "Further training" suggests you are following the modular route - in which case I would ask you where you are going to do P1/s hours?

I don't mean where geographically - I mean where in the syllabus?

[FougaMagister]

Keygrip - the CPL and ME/IR skill tests will be logged as P1 U/S if successful; otherwise as P2.

CVT Pilot - I believe most JAA-qualified (as opposed to CAA-qualified) commercial pilots use the Jeppesen JAA Professionnal Pilots' Logbook.

A bit pricy though!

Cheers

[Jinkster]

I agree with keygrip.

I have a european JAR logbook and when you pass a test - its goes as P1 time, put the examiners name as PIC and get him to sign it.

[Keygrip]

the CPL and ME/IR skill tests will be logged as P1 U/S if successful; otherwise as P2.

Close, but no cigar - logged as P1/s when successful - logged as DUAL when failing the first attempt at the I/R.

You really going to open a whole new logbook just to record two flights (which count as P1 hours anyway and can go in the command column)?

[Farrell]

I use the JAA Jeppesen logbook even though all of my training will be on the FAA route.

My instructor told me not to bother changing it to the Jeppesen FAA version (although I do like the green pages in that one!)

[swervin'mervin]

i personally see no reason to have to change the log book at all. Just carry on and change when you fill the old one up.

[CVT Pilot]

Thanks for the responses all - I am indeed following a modular route although as has already been stated I have been informed that P1/S will be logged for the skills tests. I have also been told that initially when under line training, these hours will also be logged as P1/S although I don't know how true this is.

The reason for changing my logbook is that my PPL one is not only unsuitable for the further training but also has taken a bit of a battering during it's lifetime.

Once again thanks for the input!

[bellend]

777sim on PPL logbook

Hello
Soon I have the pleasure of 4 hours on the 777 sim, I am a basic PPL with no additional ratings. Without sounding like a Bighead I would like to know if I can put this simulator session in my logbook? and if so would it serve any usefull purpose?(my guess is a big NOT)
I am flying! with a training/instructor captain and through past sim-sessions it suckered me into getting my PPL although I must admit I do prefer playing in the sims more than I do flying a warrior! but its a close second. I suppose the only real reason I am asking is that I would just love to have an entry in the book with 777 sim !! but ony if it was relevant.
The last time I was in the sim the captain told me it was a zero hour simulator so that trainees could learn everything and then step into the real bird fully qualified, at least thats what I think he said? I may be wrong
gratefull for any advice!

[Strepsils]

There should be a section in your log book for simulator hours. You can stick it in there but you're right, it won't mean much at the moment other than to put a smile on your face whenever you read over it! .

[bellend]

Thanks, i have just seen that and i will stick it in there. I am so looking forward to this and although it sounds silly i just want to enter it in!!

cheers

[Keygrip]

Are you not only supposed to log sim time that was done on an approved simulator (which this obviously is) and doing lessons on an approved course (which this presumably isn't).

The log book is a serious document - of course the opportunity is important to you, but I wouldn't log it in anything more than memory.

Had one guy turn up at a school one day - he'd logged a Boeing 737 sector In a sim) as an actual trip in the main pages, and was claiming the hours flown and telling people he had turbine experience.

I've played with a 747-200, an L-1011, a DC9, couple of King Air's, Lear 35, 737-400, A320 and a few generics. All have fond memories, none are in the book.

[bellend]

Hi keygrip

this is what I was concerned about.I sincerely am not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes! I just pondered the question as to the legality of wether or not it could be logged . I understand what your saying and yes you are correct this is not an approved course it is merely 4 hours of play! I do not want to enter any false info in my logbook. On refllection I will not put it in as it means jack anyway, I just thought it would be cool to have in there for the brag factor !!! and if it was legit then why not. Thanks for the info

regs

[banana head]

Bellend, provided you are not claiming the time flown towards a rating or licence I can see no reason why you can't record it in your logbook.
Put it in the Flight Simulator section, put a comment in such as GH (general handling) and Don't include the hours in your total flight time.
Nothing wrong with doing that.
Don't mind the begrudgers - enjoy your play around on the 777