Logbook and Logging Hours Questions

[-IBLB-]

sure, as long as you are both qualified for the plane.
Also, only on at a time can log, so the time you log between you, has to be the total time of the flight/block time.
The physical position of a pilot (LHS/RHS) has no influence on logging time.

[nick14]

unfortunatly unless the aircraft is a multi crew aircraft then you cannot log hours in the right hand seat.

In order to log hours and be the PIC i believe you must perform the takeoff and landing.

The way to do it is to fly a 2 leg route you fly one leg,takeing off and landing then you swop into the righthand seat and then let your mate fly the rest!!

Thats the way i do it anyway

Nick

[Parson]

I assume you mean 2 PPLs hiring the a/craft togther - as I understand it, you split the block time in accordance with who was in control and record it as P1. The total combined time should therefore equal the block time.

[powdermonkey]

Both pilots are se/land rated, but one for example is checked out on a 172, the other on a 152. Therefore, if the pilot familiar with the 172 does the takeoff/landing, and the other doesn't, can the pilot in the rhs then take over in flight and fly the leg, handing back controls prior to descent. Therefore one pilot logs takeoff and climb/descent and landing time, the other logs the cruise part of the flight.
The reason for asking is that I have not being checked out on a 172, but have plenty of hours on 150/152. My friend is checked out on the 172. If we are to take a 172 for a long cross country, I (under school rules) cannot sit in the lhs, but I am totally capable of flying the route, from the rhs. This would be the reason why we are not able to log a leg each. It is not critical, but seems a waste if I cannot log part of the flight.
I also do not want to log anything I am NOT allowed to do!
Thanks for your input

[Parson]

Regardless of what seat you are in, I would imagine that you wouldn't be allowed to be PIC, under club rules (and also legally) unless you were checked out for that aircraft type. If you had an 'incident' and you were in control, I think you'd be on very dodgy ground. Why don't you just get checked out yourself? Shouldn't take more than a hour.

[Re-Heat]

Altered, as I was incorrect.

Careful of the insurance though

[powdermonkey]

Thanks guys, that's as much as I thought, like I said, it hasn't happened yet and so, it isn't an issue, just thought it was worth investigating!
At the moment the reason I haven't bothered getting checked out on the 172, is that it is more expensive than the 152 for self-fly hire, and I AM ON A VERY TIGHT BUDGET! Having said that, it will make things a lot more flexible, so I will do it soon. I need to log 10hrs this month or else my PPL is dead in the water, so I was looking at this in case of weather/unavailability of 150/152 etc which my restrict access to the planes I am rated/checked out on. Not to worry, but thank you for your input/advice.
Cheers
PM

[FlyingForFun]

I can't see any reason why two people who are legally allowed to fly an aircraft shouldn't share P1 time for a single leg between them as long as this is agreed in advance - I don't know anywhere which says it's allowed, but I also don't know anywhere which says it isn't allowed.

However, as others have said, if you're not checked out on the aircraft, and club rules require a checkout, you are not insured, therefore you can not log P1 in this case.

Two points from your last post:

the reason I haven't bothered getting checked out on the 172, is that it is more expensive than the 152 for self-fly hire, and I AM ON A VERY TIGHT BUDGET

Weight+balance permitting, you can get 4 people in a C172, which means you can cost-share with 3 other non-pilots, thus reducing your costs considerably!!!

I need to log 10hrs this month or else my PPL is dead in the water

You do not need to complete the 12 hours to revalidate your license - you can also do the revalidation by test. Just do as much training as required - which might be as little as 1/2 hour or as much as 5-6 hours - and then a test which lasts a couple of hours. Less hours, and therefore less cost, than revalidation by experience. Your local flying school should be able to go through the details with you, and arrange whatever instruction is necessary as well as the test with an examiner.

FFF
-----------------

[Julian]

As FFF says, there is nothing to stop you both logging time as P1, as long as total time between you both equals total duration of flight, i.e. 1 hour flight, Pilot 1 logs 40 mins, Pilot 2 logs 20 mins, etc, etc.

Multi-crew does not come into it as only one of you is P1 (unless you are safety pilot if flying under the FAA FARs but thats a different story!!!). Not sure how a 'club' can stipulate who logs P1 either!!!

I have done this several times with friends on a long flights where we have swapped over P1 mid-air for a break.

Julian

[BEagle]

I concur with FFF!

[powdermonkey]

OK So:

1. get checked out on 172 to satisfy club/insurance etc.
2. Can swap P1 time in the air on a single leg, no overlaping of p1 time between the 2 pilots ( absolutely agreed on that one!! )
3. FFF, have logged 1hr and 20 mins in the past 19MONTHS, due at first to job/lack of time, second lack of job/lack of funds ( due to studying for ATPLs ) and thirdly all my attention went to ATPLs in past year, and put flying on the backburner! THEREFORE, I need to get my experience back up FIRST, so unfortunately, I don't think I could pass a flight test straight away, as I would be a little rusty!! I did get a sign off from the FTO last week which wasn't bad considering it was my first flight after such a long time, but although I was safe and could handle the ac, I don't think I would be sharp enough for a real flight test.....unfortunately MORE IMPORTANTLY THOUGH, and I take your point that the retraining for a test may only take a couple of hours, I need to get my P1 time up fast, as I want to start CPL training as soon as ATPL's are done ( looks like April ), so the hours are not wasted as such.

[172driver]

Powdermonkey,
while not sure about the JAA regs, under FAA regs you certainly can. PIC (or P1 as you call it) is defined as 'sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft'. The PIC role can pass from one to the other as many times as you like during a flight and where you sit is irrelevant (well, as long as it's somewhere from where you can reach the controls ).
Also, t/o and landing don't come into play here. However, you must have the approriate rating, i.e. be legal to fly the a/c in question (rating, medical).

[NW3]

Electronic logbooks

I've been doing some digging on electronic logbooks - currently writing one for the web which i hope to have ready soon.

The CAA doesn't actually require you to keep a paper logbook - there's nothing wrong with keeping an electronic one. All you would have to do is sign each page of the printout individually if you ever did have to send it to them.

LASORS is the place to look for the lowdown on all that sort of stuff - search google.

hth

NW3

[WingDown]

This question came up at a club I fly at recently, two guys looking to share the time. Provided they were both checked and current there was no problem. However, I remember one of the guys being right hand checked by an instructor round the circuit to ensure they could competently t/o and land the thing in the right hand seat which they were happy to do. As long as you agree the block time break down between you both and inform the club what you are doing, there should be no problem.

WD

[powdermonkey]

Thanks everyone! My FTO rules are what is important here, so even though I have PPL and rating for SE/Land Piston, the check out in the 172 will be what counts to make it all square. Will get it done in the next few weeks and crack on.

[Steve aka Buk]

Tatty PPL logbook

When I did my PPL training, I did it with no intention of pursuing a career in aviation - it was purely for fun and so some of my entries in my logbook where `not neat` (ie. different coloured inks used, entries scrubbed out etc.) I have now decided to take my training more seriously and will be starting at a major flight organisation very soon doing PPL to ATPL(f) via the modular route.

I am now at the stage where I need to start hour building but I would prefer to enter these hours in a nice shiney new `professional` logbook. But what I would like to know is can I transfer my current entries and get the flight school to sing for them as correct? Or is all this just pointless and I should just carry on using my original logbook.

The reason I ask is that when the time comes, I would like to present to any interviewer who asks, a properly formatted logbook.



PS. This is a great site! I have only just discovered it and find it very informative.

[powdermonkey]

I had EXACTLY the same problem, but mine was due to the fact that I did not add up my times correctly as per the written instructions at the start of the logbook. So I went to the IAA, and told them I wished to write up a new one and could they stamp/sign it to make it official. They said no problem, to write on the old log book, Volume 1 and the new one Volume 2, but that I had to keep the first log book for my/their records as it is the one with all the official stamps, instructor's counter signatures, PPL examiner signature etc.
My old log book is an embarassment so I know exactly how you feel.

[-IBLB-]

If you want to use a different logbook, I would copy all the entries to a new logbook, and write a note somewhere in the front saying something like "all entries between date X and date Y are copied from other logbooks. No need to get stamps/signatures etc. If someone really wants to check up on them, you will always have the original with the signatures/stamps.

I have done the same thing, where i copied multiple smaller logbooks of SEP, MEP and Glider time in one book. I never have been asked to show the originals.

[sdryh]

It is always good to keep a copy of your log book anyway.. imagine loosing it.. how would you remember what was in it.. I keep 2 on the go, one neat one and one from when i started the PPL..

Ryh

[My names Turkish]

Logging Flight Time during Line Training

Doing my initial line training at the moment. Am not sure how I should log the hours, some Line Trainers suggest that all time is logged as Dual recieved, others have suggested the legs that I am the Handling Pilot/PF should be logged as PIC/us.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?