Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
..and even then, only one can log "In command", the other must log co=pilot hours. In addition, I assume in this context that they both have a rating for this aircraft.
I suspect the operative word in the original post is "passenger". If they are a passenger, then no hours can be logged.
Cheers
Whirls
I suspect the operative word in the original post is "passenger". If they are a passenger, then no hours can be logged.
Cheers
Whirls
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Suffolk UK
I use Excel myself, and any decent spreadsheet can do what you need for logging your flights.
For all those about to post links to people selling computer logbook products - DON'T! If they want to advertise, they can pay.
Scroggs
For all those about to post links to people selling computer logbook products - DON'T! If they want to advertise, they can pay.
Scroggs
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Uk
Scroggs,
I know you don't allow people to post links to commerical sites, but I use a website that is free and it has a facility to log your hours electronically, in an easy to use drop down menu, which you can then download into EXCEL. Is it ok to publish this on here? Quite understand if it isn't.
I know you don't allow people to post links to commerical sites, but I use a website that is free and it has a facility to log your hours electronically, in an easy to use drop down menu, which you can then download into EXCEL. Is it ok to publish this on here? Quite understand if it isn't.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 911
Likes: 43
From: Bournemouth UK
Scroggs
Is the excel version of your log book your only copy? Do you print off the sheets and put them into a folder or anything? Have you dispensed with a hand written log book?
Do you have to log your own hours at Virgin or do ops, crewing or someone also keep a log of your hours?
I've had my basic log book since starting my PPL but I also keep the hours in an Excel spreadsheet (It helps to ensure my sums are correct).
I'm now in CTC's holding pool and I was planning to start a new log book when I start my type rating. Would you recommend sticking with my excel spreadsheet or should I get a proper JAA log book?
Cheers
SW
Is the excel version of your log book your only copy? Do you print off the sheets and put them into a folder or anything? Have you dispensed with a hand written log book?
Do you have to log your own hours at Virgin or do ops, crewing or someone also keep a log of your hours?
I've had my basic log book since starting my PPL but I also keep the hours in an Excel spreadsheet (It helps to ensure my sums are correct).
I'm now in CTC's holding pool and I was planning to start a new log book when I start my type rating. Would you recommend sticking with my excel spreadsheet or should I get a proper JAA log book?
Cheers
SW
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Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Suffolk UK
I don't use any kind of paper logbook. My Excel sheet is backed up on three computers and a memory stick; it has never been printed out. Virgin does keep a log of our hours, but I doubt it complies with the CAA requirements for personal log-keeping. I see no reason why you should need to keep a paper logbook at all.
Scroggs
Scroggs
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 34
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From: England
Scroggs,
Can I ask, if you dont keep any form of paper logbook, how you would provide a CAA approved form of your hours? Like yourself, I keep a basic excel sheet that totals my hours in a similar way to what you have described. However, I maintain a paper logbook as an approved form that the CAA will accept for my licence applications (currently training). How do you get round this? Is your excel sheet recognised? Or is there no requirement, post training, to submit logbook hours to the CAA?
WD
Can I ask, if you dont keep any form of paper logbook, how you would provide a CAA approved form of your hours? Like yourself, I keep a basic excel sheet that totals my hours in a similar way to what you have described. However, I maintain a paper logbook as an approved form that the CAA will accept for my licence applications (currently training). How do you get round this? Is your excel sheet recognised? Or is there no requirement, post training, to submit logbook hours to the CAA?
WD
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Suffolk UK
Originally Posted by WingDown
Scroggs,
Can I ask, if you dont keep any form of paper logbook, how you would provide a CAA approved form of your hours? Like yourself, I keep a basic excel sheet that totals my hours in a similar way to what you have described. However, I maintain a paper logbook as an approved form that the CAA will accept for my licence applications (currently training). How do you get round this? Is your excel sheet recognised? Or is there no requirement, post training, to submit logbook hours to the CAA?
WD
Can I ask, if you dont keep any form of paper logbook, how you would provide a CAA approved form of your hours? Like yourself, I keep a basic excel sheet that totals my hours in a similar way to what you have described. However, I maintain a paper logbook as an approved form that the CAA will accept for my licence applications (currently training). How do you get round this? Is your excel sheet recognised? Or is there no requirement, post training, to submit logbook hours to the CAA?
WD
Scroggs
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 290
From: self isolating
Logbook Hour Recording Format
Hi there,
Just a quick question, what would be the most sensible way to record flying time in a logbook?
For Example, you fly 1hr 30mins.
Record it as time 1:30
or Decimal 1.5
thanks
EpsilonVaz
Just a quick question, what would be the most sensible way to record flying time in a logbook?
For Example, you fly 1hr 30mins.
Record it as time 1:30
or Decimal 1.5
thanks
EpsilonVaz
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
From: East Midlands
Hours recording
Good Question! I worked in a foreign Air Force which tried to go over to 'decimal' hours with flights recorded to the nearest 3 minutes. This matter was raised some time ago on this Forum and a link was posted to a programme which enabled the use of a calculator to be used to add hours and minutes, in the 60 minutes per hour format. If it is your log book I guess it is up to you but if it is an official thing like an RAF Form 414 or something used by the authorities, it may not be up to you how you record the hours. If you are looking for official use and recognition of your hard earned hours you may have to comply with some approved protocol for the recording of them.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,114
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From: UK
Most schools I have attended use decimal and it is the best method IMHO.
It makes adding up much easier and helps to avoid making silly mathematically errors. With using hours & mins if your having a bad day you can easily add them up wrong unless you have a fancy calculator that has hours, mins & secs function. To help you work out the decimal conversions you can always do a little card and keep it in your logbook:-
5 min = 0.1
10 min = 0.17
15 min = 0.25
etc etc. After a while you will remember them more than likely anyway but it will give you a handy reference whilst starting out.
It makes adding up much easier and helps to avoid making silly mathematically errors. With using hours & mins if your having a bad day you can easily add them up wrong unless you have a fancy calculator that has hours, mins & secs function. To help you work out the decimal conversions you can always do a little card and keep it in your logbook:-
5 min = 0.1
10 min = 0.17
15 min = 0.25
etc etc. After a while you will remember them more than likely anyway but it will give you a handy reference whilst starting out.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: UK
Are these logable hours?
I'm looking at a 100 hour time building program in the US on a twin which looks pretty good value, but I am concerned about one thing - are the hours logable under JAR. I phoned them and was told that I could pay extra to get all P1 time, and that this was logable, but then I saw this post by Send Clowns:
So since a Duchess is not multi-crew under JAR, does this mean that if a guy who is getting his FAA qualifications is in the right hand seat logging P2 time, that I can't log these P1 hours under JAR?
The FAA accepts more than one person logging a flight if both are qualified.
By my reading, in the UK that can only be the case if (a) an instructor logs PIC, student logs dual (b) they log P1 and P2 or (c) they log P1 and P1 under supervision. However (b) can only be logged for flights requiring two crew. (c) is only allowed for CAA flight tests (not club checkouts) or on multi-crew aircraft.
By my reading, in the UK that can only be the case if (a) an instructor logs PIC, student logs dual (b) they log P1 and P2 or (c) they log P1 and P1 under supervision. However (b) can only be logged for flights requiring two crew. (c) is only allowed for CAA flight tests (not club checkouts) or on multi-crew aircraft.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,114
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From: UK
The question is this. How do you log JAA P1 time in their aircraft? If you ask them that question then let us know? We need to know will you be the sole person in that aircraft at all times or will you be required to take either a safety pilot or instructor with you? If the latter two then I would be very sceptical about it all.
Some poor sod posted a few weeks back about how he went for a ride with an instructor pal having paid the school at P1 rate and had his hours not accepted by the CAA. The instructor was of course logging it all as P1 as even though to all intent and purposes he was enjoying 50 hours worth of jolly with a guy that had a PPL. Moral of the story has to be - fly by yourself or at least someone without a licence/instructor rating.
Some poor sod posted a few weeks back about how he went for a ride with an instructor pal having paid the school at P1 rate and had his hours not accepted by the CAA. The instructor was of course logging it all as P1 as even though to all intent and purposes he was enjoying 50 hours worth of jolly with a guy that had a PPL. Moral of the story has to be - fly by yourself or at least someone without a licence/instructor rating.