Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
Hi,
After my PPL flight test, my examiner told me that I could log it as P1 because I had passed....he didn't mention Picus.....
should it be changed? I was wondering myself, when you get trained on a 172 after having gained your SE/Land piston PPL on a 152 for example, that time learning on a different ac, is it P1 or Picus? Again, no one has given me a clear answer. As far as I can tell, you are exercising the priviledges of your licence, so surely it is P1, even though you have an instructor with you?
Any more clues out there?
After my PPL flight test, my examiner told me that I could log it as P1 because I had passed....he didn't mention Picus.....
should it be changed? I was wondering myself, when you get trained on a 172 after having gained your SE/Land piston PPL on a 152 for example, that time learning on a different ac, is it P1 or Picus? Again, no one has given me a clear answer. As far as I can tell, you are exercising the priviledges of your licence, so surely it is P1, even though you have an instructor with you?
Any more clues out there?
Re: Do PICUS hours count?
As Sky Wave suggests, the hours gained in successful completion of licence and rating skill tests may be counted towards the 100 hours PIC requirement. However, according to JAR, these flights should not have been recorded as PICUS, which applies only to a co-pilot "on an aeroplane on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aeroplane or as required by JAR–OPS". This is yet another example of LASORS getting it wrong.
The skill tests that would count towards PIC time during modular training would be only the PPL Skill Test, CPL Skill Test, MEP Class Rating and IR Skill Test - progress checks and club 'checkouts' do not count. Only a full pass may be counted towards PIC time, partial passes should be recorded as Dual flight time.
PICUS should not be recorded on an integrated course (see above) and SPIC is a quite different proposition - 50 hours is specifically written into the integrated course syllabus and is, therefore, not relevant to modular training
The skill tests that would count towards PIC time during modular training would be only the PPL Skill Test, CPL Skill Test, MEP Class Rating and IR Skill Test - progress checks and club 'checkouts' do not count. Only a full pass may be counted towards PIC time, partial passes should be recorded as Dual flight time.
PICUS should not be recorded on an integrated course (see above) and SPIC is a quite different proposition - 50 hours is specifically written into the integrated course syllabus and is, therefore, not relevant to modular training
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
Thanks for the replies.
BillieBob, I have inadvertantly put down a partial pass as a PICUS when I think now it should have been PUT. The implications are that I think I was about 1hr when I started my ME training (70hrs PIC minimum requirement). It may be time to contact the CAA and admit a genuine mistake that I made when adding up my hours.
BillieBob, I have inadvertantly put down a partial pass as a PICUS when I think now it should have been PUT. The implications are that I think I was about 1hr when I started my ME training (70hrs PIC minimum requirement). It may be time to contact the CAA and admit a genuine mistake that I made when adding up my hours.
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
GP
As far as I am aware:
If you get a partial on your first atttempt this counts as PUT.
If you then convert it to a pass on your second (or third etc) attempt, you can count this time as P1.
Linda
As far as I am aware:
If you get a partial on your first atttempt this counts as PUT.
If you then convert it to a pass on your second (or third etc) attempt, you can count this time as P1.
Linda
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
Originally Posted by powdermonkey
I was wondering myself, when you get trained on a 172 after having gained your SE/Land piston PPL on a 152 for example, that time learning on a different ac, is it P1 or Picus? Again, no one has given me a clear answer. As far as I can tell, you are exercising the priviledges of your licence, so surely it is P1, even though you have an instructor with you?
Any more clues out there?
Any more clues out there?
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
To the best of my knowledge PICUS can be claimed for successful tests and ratings such as PPL / CPL skills test and IR.
Picus does not need to be countersigned in ones logbook if an accompanying test sheet is submitted to the CAA. Some instructors however like to sign as belt and braces.
Club checks, which include conversions on same catergory aircraft, such as Cessna 152 to 172 do not count.
Hope this helps. Best advice is phone the CAA / SRG
Woof
Picus does not need to be countersigned in ones logbook if an accompanying test sheet is submitted to the CAA. Some instructors however like to sign as belt and braces.
Club checks, which include conversions on same catergory aircraft, such as Cessna 152 to 172 do not count.
Hope this helps. Best advice is phone the CAA / SRG
Woof
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
After my PPL flight test, my examiner told me that I could log it as P1 because I had passed....he didn't mention Picus
that time learning on a different ac, is it P1 or Picus?
Linda,
If you then convert it to a pass on your second (or third etc) attempt, you can count this time as P1.
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Re: Do PICUS hours count?
HWD
Obviously I did not make myself clear.
If you do not get a full pass, the whole flight should be logged as PUT.
If you go to do a partial (or a full) test having partly (or completely) failed a previous attempt, and you pass that partial (or full) test then you can log that flight as P1.
In other words the only time you can log P1 is when you are successful in what you are doing, whether this is a partial attempt or a full attempt.
It is also my understanding that, if you do a checkout and
- the person sitting next to you (whether an instructor or not) is acting only as a safety pilot, i.e. you are sole manipulator of the controls and ;
- the techlog and your logbook records you as P1 with your name (or self) as aircraft commander;
then you can record this as P1.
But this is genuine P1 and not PICUS.
As has been said before, PICUS is only for sucessful skill tests.
Hope this helps.
Linda
Obviously I did not make myself clear.
If you do not get a full pass, the whole flight should be logged as PUT.
If you go to do a partial (or a full) test having partly (or completely) failed a previous attempt, and you pass that partial (or full) test then you can log that flight as P1.
In other words the only time you can log P1 is when you are successful in what you are doing, whether this is a partial attempt or a full attempt.
It is also my understanding that, if you do a checkout and
- the person sitting next to you (whether an instructor or not) is acting only as a safety pilot, i.e. you are sole manipulator of the controls and ;
- the techlog and your logbook records you as P1 with your name (or self) as aircraft commander;
then you can record this as P1.
But this is genuine P1 and not PICUS.
As has been said before, PICUS is only for sucessful skill tests.
Hope this helps.
Linda
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Logbook Questions
Hi
This is really starting to bug me. I've purchased a copy of Skylog to help keep track of the vast hours I've flown. All 105.
It's a good application but it makes me worry that I might not have logged my flight hours correctly in my paper logbook.
As a student pilot under instruction, are hours entered as dual, or can they be entered as SPIC (assuming this is Student Pilot Under Instruction)?
How do you enter X-country flights with multiple legs? I have one logged on three seperate lines, one for each leg. Another is logged on one line using tiny writing such as KAPF-KVNC-KAPF?
Thr CAA accepted my logbook as it was for my PPL so it's not a major problem, it just bugs me that it's a little disorganised.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
This is really starting to bug me. I've purchased a copy of Skylog to help keep track of the vast hours I've flown. All 105.
It's a good application but it makes me worry that I might not have logged my flight hours correctly in my paper logbook.
As a student pilot under instruction, are hours entered as dual, or can they be entered as SPIC (assuming this is Student Pilot Under Instruction)?
How do you enter X-country flights with multiple legs? I have one logged on three seperate lines, one for each leg. Another is logged on one line using tiny writing such as KAPF-KVNC-KAPF?
Thr CAA accepted my logbook as it was for my PPL so it's not a major problem, it just bugs me that it's a little disorganised.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
Your school would be the best people to help you out on this. However, under JARs:
You can only log SPIC if you are on an integrated course, in which case your instructor will tell you when you can do this. If you are on a modular course, you log dual time as PUT.
Navigation should be logged as one flight, unless you land and shut down. I.e, If you don't land, or if you just do a touch+go at your destination, it's one flight. If you stop the aircraft (to pay landing fees, or have a cup of tea, for example) then it's two flights.
FFF
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You can only log SPIC if you are on an integrated course, in which case your instructor will tell you when you can do this. If you are on a modular course, you log dual time as PUT.
Navigation should be logged as one flight, unless you land and shut down. I.e, If you don't land, or if you just do a touch+go at your destination, it's one flight. If you stop the aircraft (to pay landing fees, or have a cup of tea, for example) then it's two flights.
FFF
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
Thanks for the reply FlyingForFun
I did a full time PPL course and logged all of these hours as dual. This was what I was told to do at the time. If I could log some of these hours as SPUC they would count towards the requirements of 100 hours P1 for the commercial. I blast an email off to the school and see what they think.
Thanks
I did a full time PPL course and logged all of these hours as dual. This was what I was told to do at the time. If I could log some of these hours as SPUC they would count towards the requirements of 100 hours P1 for the commercial. I blast an email off to the school and see what they think.
Thanks
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
As FFF says if you just did a PPL course you cannot log any of the time as SPIC. You can log the successful flight test as P1/s putting the examiners name as the commander but putting the time in the P1 column however this cannot count towards the 100 hours PIC for a CPL.
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
All solo time performed during the PPL can be logged as P1, and it DOES count towards the 100hrs PIC for commercial issue, as does the PPL skills test.
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
It is quite possibly another inconsistancy with licence issue by I know of people who have had CPL applications 'bounced' for including P1/s in the 100 hours PIC. As although Lasors clearly says P1/s logged when a co-pilot can be counted it doesn't specifically say if P1/s from successful flight tests can be counted towards licence hours requirements. You can include the P1 time from the PPL though.
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
As I said, I do not have a definitive either way it appears to be some defferent interpretations from different licensing people I shall endeavour to contact the CAA for a firm answer.
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Re: Correct logbook entry of hours flown
Dylan,
I have never heard that PICUS time can not count towards requirement for P1 time. Fair enough if there are different interpretations, but I've never seen anything that could be interpretated that way. Do you have a reference?
A reference for the oposing viewpoint - that PICUS hours do count towards your P1 time - is LARSORS Section A Appendix B. Row J clearly states that a successful skills test is logged as PICUS (which I think we all agree on), and that you should "Enter time in 'P1' column and have it certified by aircraft commander".
Row B relates to a co-pilot performing duties of PIC under supervision of the pilot-in-command - a situation which is not direclty relevant to skills tests, but which is also logged as PICUS, so it's worth reading the comments in this row about PICUS. The comments here state: "Counted in full toward licence experience requirements subject to certification by the pilot-in-command", which I think is about as definite as you can get.
FFF
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I have never heard that PICUS time can not count towards requirement for P1 time. Fair enough if there are different interpretations, but I've never seen anything that could be interpretated that way. Do you have a reference?
A reference for the oposing viewpoint - that PICUS hours do count towards your P1 time - is LARSORS Section A Appendix B. Row J clearly states that a successful skills test is logged as PICUS (which I think we all agree on), and that you should "Enter time in 'P1' column and have it certified by aircraft commander".
Row B relates to a co-pilot performing duties of PIC under supervision of the pilot-in-command - a situation which is not direclty relevant to skills tests, but which is also logged as PICUS, so it's worth reading the comments in this row about PICUS. The comments here state: "Counted in full toward licence experience requirements subject to certification by the pilot-in-command", which I think is about as definite as you can get.
FFF
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Filling out the logbook
Having been a naughty boy and logged all my flights on a spreadsheet, its now time to update my paper logbook. Its becoming a rather daunting task, so was wondering if there were any good sites with useful advice on how to do it properly without doubling the company value of 'Tippex'. Also, I'm logging every flight I've done, and am unsure whether I would be allowed to include a trail lesson in a three-axis microlight.
Your advice appreciated (this would be so much easier with a search function on prune!)
CS
Your advice appreciated (this would be so much easier with a search function on prune!)
CS
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Logging hours in right hand seat?
Hi Folks
Was wondering: if 2 PPLs are flying, one does the takeoff and landing from LHS, can the other log P1 time from the RHS if he flies the route or part of the route?
Thanks
Was wondering: if 2 PPLs are flying, one does the takeoff and landing from LHS, can the other log P1 time from the RHS if he flies the route or part of the route?
Thanks