Logbook and Logging Hours Questions
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: UK
the jep book is horrible, the best jar log book i have seen is the AFE proffesional log book. When you start flying a multi crew aircraft there is one captain, who logs P1 on each leg. The F/O will be P2 if PNF and PICUS when P1 the AFE book has spaces for all these things.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 906
Likes: 102
From: Southampton
Some years ago, as a PPL I had the opportunity for several hands on flights in a large 4 engined aircraft whilst we were doing test flying. The max I had control was for an hour. Were these flight loggable?
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Hi saintsman,
The only way you would be able to log these hours would be if the captain you were flying with was a licenced flying instructor (or TRI) on this type. Providing he / she was, then the hours would be entered in the logbook as dual and operating capacity as P.u/t. (Pilot under training).
Also a point to which im not 100% sure of the answer...
The aircraft or instructor may need to belong to a school / establishment with approved training certification. (but this may be just to count the hours towards licence issue)
The only way you would be able to log these hours would be if the captain you were flying with was a licenced flying instructor (or TRI) on this type. Providing he / she was, then the hours would be entered in the logbook as dual and operating capacity as P.u/t. (Pilot under training).
Also a point to which im not 100% sure of the answer...
The aircraft or instructor may need to belong to a school / establishment with approved training certification. (but this may be just to count the hours towards licence issue)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 906
Likes: 102
From: Southampton
arn3696,
Thanks for the info. To be honest the hours are not that important. Just the fact that I had the opportunity to fly the aircraft gives much more satisfaction. It was a money can't buy experience which I will never forget.
Thanks for the info. To be honest the hours are not that important. Just the fact that I had the opportunity to fly the aircraft gives much more satisfaction. It was a money can't buy experience which I will never forget.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: UK
You can put almost anything you want in your log book. The only issue is claiming time that does not apply. No harm in putting in trial flights or sim rides as long as you remark they were "leisure flights" for example and don't include them in the total time for that page.
As for the sims, the only relevance of sim time is 100 hours towards your ATPL (in the UK). As long as this particular sim time is not counted toward that (should you train for your ATPL) then you are doing nothing wrong.
Remember that whilst a log of flights is required, your logbook is your Personal flying log which just happens to store your flights in a required format. Only if you claim to have something you don't are you commiting an offence.
As for the sims, the only relevance of sim time is 100 hours towards your ATPL (in the UK). As long as this particular sim time is not counted toward that (should you train for your ATPL) then you are doing nothing wrong.
Remember that whilst a log of flights is required, your logbook is your Personal flying log which just happens to store your flights in a required format. Only if you claim to have something you don't are you commiting an offence.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: uk
Hi
Did my sim session last night, thoroughly enjoyed myself. Entered in my logbook as general handling(leisure) and not added to my total. Thanks for the help .A shame that it passes by so quickly !
cheers bellend !
Did my sim session last night, thoroughly enjoyed myself. Entered in my logbook as general handling(leisure) and not added to my total. Thanks for the help .A shame that it passes by so quickly !
cheers bellend !
Fixed+Rotary (aircraft, not washing lines)
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
From: Peak District, Yorkshire, UK
How much did that cost? And was it worth every penny? And where did you do it (PM me if you don't want to advertise). But it sound like a fun thing to do.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
Likes: 0
From: Neither Here Nor There
I got to play with the RAF's Tornado sim at a front line squadron some years ago and stuck that in my book (not logged as time though) just to remind myself that I have managed to plant a 30 million pound jet straight into the ground at 600 knots and walk away (But as the only flying member of my visiting troop and no-one else managed to crash, did I feel a pillock? Oh yes!)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: uk
Mydata
Cost was negligible as I did it through a friend who works for the airline. Sorry but dont want to reveal anymore than that but you can go through a company (virtual aviation?) I think ,very expensive with them ,they have sessions at Luton,Gatwick & Cranebank if my memory serves. for a cheaper worthy sim session with full motion try the trident simulator at Biggin Hill ,good price full motion but old graphics (night flight only)
regs bellend
Cost was negligible as I did it through a friend who works for the airline. Sorry but dont want to reveal anymore than that but you can go through a company (virtual aviation?) I think ,very expensive with them ,they have sessions at Luton,Gatwick & Cranebank if my memory serves. for a cheaper worthy sim session with full motion try the trident simulator at Biggin Hill ,good price full motion but old graphics (night flight only)
regs bellend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
From: Ask OPS!
AAArghhh, the dreaded BrainCrank, personally I hate the day my sim check rolls up. I never knew they could fail so much stuff and then provaricate for hours over it!!!!
Glad to hear you enjoyed your trip Bellend, the 777 is a fun beast to play around in and the hours in your log book will provide a good talking point over a beer
Incidentally, a bellend crank, I seem to remember from days of yore, was the connecting rod between the rotating swash plates of a helicopter and the rotor blade pitch change hinge
, t'was also a part of a blokes anatomy .... go figure??
Cheers
(Edited due to typing too fast with fat fingers)
Glad to hear you enjoyed your trip Bellend, the 777 is a fun beast to play around in and the hours in your log book will provide a good talking point over a beer
Incidentally, a bellend crank, I seem to remember from days of yore, was the connecting rod between the rotating swash plates of a helicopter and the rotor blade pitch change hinge
, t'was also a part of a blokes anatomy .... go figure??Cheers
(Edited due to typing too fast with fat fingers)
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: uk
never looked at the sim that way? I suppose its a bit of a torture chamber for you guys doing the check rides while for me its a jolly! for the few times we done it the weather is off,everything works and we have the benefit of somebody who knows what their doing telling us what to to do, which is probably the complete opposite to a check ride!
If I had the money I would love to own a full motion sim, I would give my PPL up for it...but now I am talking like a helmet,purple mushroom.......bellend
If I had the money I would love to own a full motion sim, I would give my PPL up for it...but now I am talking like a helmet,purple mushroom.......bellend
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: Oxford
European Approved Logbook
Hi All!
At the moment I'm following an Integrated Course for my ATPL. I did all the groundschool and am now busy with flying in the States. My Flightschool gave me a Logbook which I have used till now. Today I bought the Jeppesen European Pilot Logbook, because it looks more professional than the one I got from School. Only after I had a look in it, I saw there is no possibillity to log Cross Country hours in there. Are there other people who use this logbook who can tell me how to log those hours? Do you use the 'Remarks' for that for example?
Thanks in Advance!
Regards,
Steven
At the moment I'm following an Integrated Course for my ATPL. I did all the groundschool and am now busy with flying in the States. My Flightschool gave me a Logbook which I have used till now. Today I bought the Jeppesen European Pilot Logbook, because it looks more professional than the one I got from School. Only after I had a look in it, I saw there is no possibillity to log Cross Country hours in there. Are there other people who use this logbook who can tell me how to log those hours? Do you use the 'Remarks' for that for example?
Thanks in Advance!
Regards,
Steven
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
There is no logbook out there which can possibly contain all the columns you need for absolutely everything.
When you apply for a license or rating, and there are particular hours requirements which aren't explicit and clear in your logbook, there are two possibilities:
Firstly, you easily have the hours. For example, to apply for an IR, you must have 50 hours x-country PIC. If your total time is 500 hours, you can be pretty certain that you've met that requirement, and whether the exact x-country time is 300 or 400 hours no one really cares. (Remember that, according to JAR, x-country is pretty much anything outside the circuit.)
Secondly, you are very close to having or not having the necessary hours. In this case, there is nothing for it but to go through your logbook and add up the exact totals. If you are clever, you will do this in advance as you go: for example, my logbook does not have a column for ME PIC time. It has columns for ME time and for PIC time, but not for ME PIC. It was a requirement for me to become a ME instructor to have 30 hours ME PIC. So, at the bottom of every page, I made a note of the ME PIC time. Even if you don't have the foresight to do this, though, the hours requirements that are likely to fall into this category are generally small enough that you can go through your logbook and add up the totals reasonably quickly, certainly less than an hour, in most cases.
You certainly can do - doesn't really matter as long as you can get the number from somewhere.
FFF
--------------
When you apply for a license or rating, and there are particular hours requirements which aren't explicit and clear in your logbook, there are two possibilities:
Firstly, you easily have the hours. For example, to apply for an IR, you must have 50 hours x-country PIC. If your total time is 500 hours, you can be pretty certain that you've met that requirement, and whether the exact x-country time is 300 or 400 hours no one really cares. (Remember that, according to JAR, x-country is pretty much anything outside the circuit.)
Secondly, you are very close to having or not having the necessary hours. In this case, there is nothing for it but to go through your logbook and add up the exact totals. If you are clever, you will do this in advance as you go: for example, my logbook does not have a column for ME PIC time. It has columns for ME time and for PIC time, but not for ME PIC. It was a requirement for me to become a ME instructor to have 30 hours ME PIC. So, at the bottom of every page, I made a note of the ME PIC time. Even if you don't have the foresight to do this, though, the hours requirements that are likely to fall into this category are generally small enough that you can go through your logbook and add up the totals reasonably quickly, certainly less than an hour, in most cases.
Do you use the 'Remarks' for that for example?
FFF
--------------
Logging p1 hours!!