EFT - APP program
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Mark Collins...
10/10..... a highly professional and intelligent instructor at EFT who i've had the pleasure of training with during the IMC rating in the APP program.
It should be clear that the testimonal of EFT Staff and current EFT students..... speak VOLUMES of the school and the standard of training there. It sends out a very strong message of the school and its excellent relations which it has ithe with all its students and its staff. This is the strongest evidence to potential students of the kind of training experience you should expect to receive at EFT.
Therefore for all potential customers of EFT, look in the right places to gain an ACCURATE and FAIR picture of our school.
William EFT APP Student.
William
10/10..... a highly professional and intelligent instructor at EFT who i've had the pleasure of training with during the IMC rating in the APP program.
It should be clear that the testimonal of EFT Staff and current EFT students..... speak VOLUMES of the school and the standard of training there. It sends out a very strong message of the school and its excellent relations which it has ithe with all its students and its staff. This is the strongest evidence to potential students of the kind of training experience you should expect to receive at EFT.
Therefore for all potential customers of EFT, look in the right places to gain an ACCURATE and FAIR picture of our school.
William EFT APP Student.
William
Last edited by boredaccountant; 18th May 2005 at 09:52.
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Bored Accountant / William,
That is one the most pompous statements I've ever heard in 52 years. Although 'Birky' can speak for himself I'm sure, you're right out of step implying that he might not have what it takes. Wind your neck in, God save us all if I come across you on my flightdeck
That is one the most pompous statements I've ever heard in 52 years. Although 'Birky' can speak for himself I'm sure, you're right out of step implying that he might not have what it takes. Wind your neck in, God save us all if I come across you on my flightdeck
The Cooler King
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Mark Collins - total professionalism as usual!
See you in August! (and I'll bring my laptop so that I don't have to hog the office Internet!)
Safe skies mate
Wayne
See you in August! (and I'll bring my laptop so that I don't have to hog the office Internet!)
Safe skies mate
Wayne
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I have also been to EFT and had no problems
But if someone does have a problem with them,like Birky,I think he should be able to speak his mind without being torn apart by rabid dogs
This is after all a forum open for all, regardless of opinion
good luck with your training Birky
But if someone does have a problem with them,like Birky,I think he should be able to speak his mind without being torn apart by rabid dogs
This is after all a forum open for all, regardless of opinion
good luck with your training Birky
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Much appreciated Daniel78 and prunster...
On a constructive note, I'm not sure whether there is anyone offering quite the same package as EFT (i.e. JAA licences first and FAA conversions second, rather than the other way round)
I know PEA offer a similar-sounding package (and Mike Kalendo at PEA was most helpful when he took the trouble to call me the other day) but they do it FAA first, then a convert to JAA afterwards which is not without its own dilemmas, at least according to many posts here.
If anyone does know of a good alternative to EFT I'd be most grateful.
Good luck to all whatever your endeavours!
Birky
On a constructive note, I'm not sure whether there is anyone offering quite the same package as EFT (i.e. JAA licences first and FAA conversions second, rather than the other way round)
I know PEA offer a similar-sounding package (and Mike Kalendo at PEA was most helpful when he took the trouble to call me the other day) but they do it FAA first, then a convert to JAA afterwards which is not without its own dilemmas, at least according to many posts here.
If anyone does know of a good alternative to EFT I'd be most grateful.
Good luck to all whatever your endeavours!
Birky
Last edited by Birky; 17th May 2005 at 16:38.
Hello all
I'd take anything from EFT with a pinch of salt. Trevor and Ben are nice guys but their website is disingenuous with the truth, to be polite. I was there in 00 and found the following:
They did not own the aircraft. Aviator does. There were/are 5 Duchesses, not 8 (as continuously stated on Aviator's adverts in the popular flying press),none of which had a functioning radar or heater. The twins were used for night hour-building as well as their day schedule, which meant that, having been away all night, any snags that appeared overnight ate into daytime availability. This was compounded by, at the time, no night maintenance. Whilst there's nothing wrong with hiring in aircraft, the use of the phrase "our fleet" is, ahem, economical with the truth. It didn't inspire confidence.
The cars for hire from the school were absolute crocks and broke down frequently. Given the quantity of cash being obtained from students for their hire, they badly needed to be in better order.
There was no sim, of even the most basic kind, which would have helped greatly. "RANT" on a PC doesn't quite cut it.
Aviator charged students 3% for making payments by credit card. Add that up when you've spent $30000 dollars at the school and it's a bit of a stinger! Indeed, the fact that EFT were a "piggyback" school, being physically hosted by the famished remnants of a once-great school, was not apparent until one appeared at the door.
There were no on-site examiners. The gentlemen concerned had to travel from Michigan once a month and often were delayed by bad weather and missed connections. They were sometimes unable to test all the students available for testing, which meant that those students took a big financial hit.
The school is physically too small. There was no room available for quiet study because they were constantly required for tuition by either EFT or Aviator students. The fact that Aviator students paid almost half that charged to EFT students per flight hour was another unpleasant revelation.
There were more niggles, minor and major, that increased the stress levels and left me with an overriding impression that the dollar counted above all else. Individually, the instructors were mostly fine and quite good. I'd give the place 5 or 6 out of ten.
regards
TDD
I'd take anything from EFT with a pinch of salt. Trevor and Ben are nice guys but their website is disingenuous with the truth, to be polite. I was there in 00 and found the following:
They did not own the aircraft. Aviator does. There were/are 5 Duchesses, not 8 (as continuously stated on Aviator's adverts in the popular flying press),none of which had a functioning radar or heater. The twins were used for night hour-building as well as their day schedule, which meant that, having been away all night, any snags that appeared overnight ate into daytime availability. This was compounded by, at the time, no night maintenance. Whilst there's nothing wrong with hiring in aircraft, the use of the phrase "our fleet" is, ahem, economical with the truth. It didn't inspire confidence.
The cars for hire from the school were absolute crocks and broke down frequently. Given the quantity of cash being obtained from students for their hire, they badly needed to be in better order.
There was no sim, of even the most basic kind, which would have helped greatly. "RANT" on a PC doesn't quite cut it.
Aviator charged students 3% for making payments by credit card. Add that up when you've spent $30000 dollars at the school and it's a bit of a stinger! Indeed, the fact that EFT were a "piggyback" school, being physically hosted by the famished remnants of a once-great school, was not apparent until one appeared at the door.
There were no on-site examiners. The gentlemen concerned had to travel from Michigan once a month and often were delayed by bad weather and missed connections. They were sometimes unable to test all the students available for testing, which meant that those students took a big financial hit.
The school is physically too small. There was no room available for quiet study because they were constantly required for tuition by either EFT or Aviator students. The fact that Aviator students paid almost half that charged to EFT students per flight hour was another unpleasant revelation.
There were more niggles, minor and major, that increased the stress levels and left me with an overriding impression that the dollar counted above all else. Individually, the instructors were mostly fine and quite good. I'd give the place 5 or 6 out of ten.
regards
TDD
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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2000 was five years ago. Much changes in five years and many of those issues are no longer valid.
I found the instruction at EFT to be nothing but professional and honest in 2004. They accomodate all types of student on an individual basis and do not have the superior 'conveyor belt' mentality of some other FTO's - that is definately a bonus in this day and age of pilot training.
What one must remember is that many students only have the one school on which to base their opinion but until you have at least had a lesson or two with some of the competitors you have no basis for an opinion.
But that's just my opinion.
VFE.
I found the instruction at EFT to be nothing but professional and honest in 2004. They accomodate all types of student on an individual basis and do not have the superior 'conveyor belt' mentality of some other FTO's - that is definately a bonus in this day and age of pilot training.
What one must remember is that many students only have the one school on which to base their opinion but until you have at least had a lesson or two with some of the competitors you have no basis for an opinion.
But that's just my opinion.
VFE.
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There were/are 5 Duchesses, not 8
The cars for hire from the school were absolute crocks and broke down frequently. Given the quantity of cash being obtained from students for their hire, they badly needed to be in better order.
There were no on-site examiners.
Appreciate your points TwoDeadDogs, but as stated a lot changes in 5 years and as seen by the comments of recent and current students - things have changed for the better!
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Well said Matt, I could have not put it better myself.
I have had no problems getting my CPL here, cheaper and better than other schools that I have looked at. The quality of the instruction is second to none.
Much better than the instructors I had when I did my PPL, who did not give a damm about students, but had nice Planes and very nice buildings and student study area's.
EFT offer a very good service, they do not have the best facillities but in life you need to get on with stuff and adapt, roll with it, evolve and deal with things in a mature way.
Birky has NOT even visted the school, therfore how can he comment on the way things are.
This thread is not helping anybody who wants to make a informed decision on were to train at all.
FF
I have had no problems getting my CPL here, cheaper and better than other schools that I have looked at. The quality of the instruction is second to none.
Much better than the instructors I had when I did my PPL, who did not give a damm about students, but had nice Planes and very nice buildings and student study area's.
EFT offer a very good service, they do not have the best facillities but in life you need to get on with stuff and adapt, roll with it, evolve and deal with things in a mature way.
Birky has NOT even visted the school, therfore how can he comment on the way things are.
This thread is not helping anybody who wants to make a informed decision on were to train at all.
FF
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Dear William (boredaccountant),
If you post something up on PPRuNe that is less than complementary about someone (in this case me) you should at least have the courage to stand by what you say, not edit it later so the thread no longer adds up. I mean, poor old prunster's subsequent comment (on Page 2 ) about you "winding your neck in" makes no sense now.
Even if you did decide that your original post sounded rather "pompous" - as prunster suggested - it's a bit spoilsport to then re-write your post to make yourself look better.
Dead giveaway here...
(Original message) posted 17th May 2005 11:36
(Prunster's subsequent post) posted 17th May 2005 13:47
(Your original message but edited) Last edited by boredaccountant on 18th May 2005 at 09:52]
Your original post - somewhat sarcastically - suggested that I read up on Crew Resource Management before daring to question the validity of a flying school's advertising. As you will no doubt know, CRM incorporates the notion that pilots should maintain situational awareness. Might I suggest that you re-read that section before getting yourself into 'situations' you are uncomfortable with?
Birky
(I do have a life, honest, but this thread is positively fun!)
----------------
EDIT ADDED:
By the way...Frank Furillo...on the contrary, I suspect this thread may be helping a good many folk make up their minds about EFT. (over 1280 views so far)
And TwoDeadDogs' post convinces me I might well have had a lucky escape from EFT.
If you post something up on PPRuNe that is less than complementary about someone (in this case me) you should at least have the courage to stand by what you say, not edit it later so the thread no longer adds up. I mean, poor old prunster's subsequent comment (on Page 2 ) about you "winding your neck in" makes no sense now.
Even if you did decide that your original post sounded rather "pompous" - as prunster suggested - it's a bit spoilsport to then re-write your post to make yourself look better.
Dead giveaway here...
(Original message) posted 17th May 2005 11:36
(Prunster's subsequent post) posted 17th May 2005 13:47
(Your original message but edited) Last edited by boredaccountant on 18th May 2005 at 09:52]
Your original post - somewhat sarcastically - suggested that I read up on Crew Resource Management before daring to question the validity of a flying school's advertising. As you will no doubt know, CRM incorporates the notion that pilots should maintain situational awareness. Might I suggest that you re-read that section before getting yourself into 'situations' you are uncomfortable with?
Birky
(I do have a life, honest, but this thread is positively fun!)
----------------
EDIT ADDED:
By the way...Frank Furillo...on the contrary, I suspect this thread may be helping a good many folk make up their minds about EFT. (over 1280 views so far)
And TwoDeadDogs' post convinces me I might well have had a lucky escape from EFT.
Last edited by Birky; 19th May 2005 at 15:50.
The Cooler King
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Birky
Listen mate.......any school you go to is going to have problems.
A year ago I was in the same boat as you....questioning and judging before going out and trying.
EFT has good points and bad points
OBA has good points and bad points
OFT has good points and bad points.......
standard pattern?......definitely!
If you do choose to do your training in the USA you're probably going to go to one of about five flight training schools if you're serious about becoming a pilot......when you are up there, whether it is in a brand new glass-cockpit Cirrus......or a banged out, seat of your pants 172 (like N53797.....my solo plane!)......you are going to have the time of your life......and trust me, when you come back, you are going to complain about your school; and the staff; and the cars; and the roads; and the food; and the TSA and their fingerprinting; and all the other bullsh*t that comes with training for the best job in the world.
Sincerely Birky, best of luck with your training.....enjoy every minute of it!
Listen mate.......any school you go to is going to have problems.
A year ago I was in the same boat as you....questioning and judging before going out and trying.
EFT has good points and bad points
OBA has good points and bad points
OFT has good points and bad points.......
standard pattern?......definitely!
If you do choose to do your training in the USA you're probably going to go to one of about five flight training schools if you're serious about becoming a pilot......when you are up there, whether it is in a brand new glass-cockpit Cirrus......or a banged out, seat of your pants 172 (like N53797.....my solo plane!)......you are going to have the time of your life......and trust me, when you come back, you are going to complain about your school; and the staff; and the cars; and the roads; and the food; and the TSA and their fingerprinting; and all the other bullsh*t that comes with training for the best job in the world.
Sincerely Birky, best of luck with your training.....enjoy every minute of it!
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Birky,
I disagree that this thread is helpful. There is just a lot of people sprouting there opinions, and as Clint Eastwood once said "Opinions are like assoles..........everybody has got one"
FF
I disagree that this thread is helpful. There is just a lot of people sprouting there opinions, and as Clint Eastwood once said "Opinions are like assoles..........everybody has got one"
FF
Hi all
I'm glad things have changed for the better at EFT. Did they ever get a Frasca or anything like it? Did they build on a study room? Are the EFT hourly prices still twice that of the FAA students? Are instructors still having to bunk students? How do students get to/from Orlando upon finishing? Is that battered Cessna,54G, still on the fleet? Is the Beech Musketeer still derelict on the ramp? Does the Boss's wife still chase the students for car hire cash? Do they still refuse to supply a source of coffee on site? Probably the only flight school in the entire USA without a CoffeeMate?!
Sorry, scan mode refuses to switch to non-cynic mode.
regards
TDD
I'm glad things have changed for the better at EFT. Did they ever get a Frasca or anything like it? Did they build on a study room? Are the EFT hourly prices still twice that of the FAA students? Are instructors still having to bunk students? How do students get to/from Orlando upon finishing? Is that battered Cessna,54G, still on the fleet? Is the Beech Musketeer still derelict on the ramp? Does the Boss's wife still chase the students for car hire cash? Do they still refuse to supply a source of coffee on site? Probably the only flight school in the entire USA without a CoffeeMate?!
Sorry, scan mode refuses to switch to non-cynic mode.
regards
TDD
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Did they ever get a Frasca or anything like it?
Yes.....er well no.....they have RANT on a PC
Did they build on a study room?
I think they did but it was blown away and they are building another one. (There were no students in it when it blew away!)
Are the EFT hourly prices still twice that of the FAA students?
Yes
Are instructors still having to bunk students?
No......they don't HAVE to......and let's not try and get these great guys into trouble, OK?
How do students get to/from Orlando upon finishing?
Car, plane, helicopter, lift from friends or a paid lift from EFT......but that is of course only if they want to go to Orlando....some people leave from Miami or the ton of other airports that are available in the USA
Is that battered Cessna,54G, still on the fleet?
Oh yes......it's got extended range fuel tanks so that it can make an even bigger bang when it goes down......which I thought it was going to do on me a while ago.....but hey.....that's aviation!
Is the Beech Musketeer still derelict on the ramp?
Don't know what it looks like, but if it's not.....there is now a derelict Grumman on the ramp that had it's tail fin chewed off by a hurricane.
Does the Boss's wife still chase the students for car hire cash?
Yes, she does......and she's lovely!!
Do they still refuse to supply a source of coffee on site?
I never asked if they would and was thinking about getting a coffee machine for them when I go back in August (watch this space).........
Oh and by the way.......EFT has one thing in the area that no other JAA approved school has....................
ERICA at the Tiki Restaurant!.......OH MY GAAAAAAAAWD!
Yes.....er well no.....they have RANT on a PC
Did they build on a study room?
I think they did but it was blown away and they are building another one. (There were no students in it when it blew away!)
Are the EFT hourly prices still twice that of the FAA students?
Yes
Are instructors still having to bunk students?
No......they don't HAVE to......and let's not try and get these great guys into trouble, OK?
How do students get to/from Orlando upon finishing?
Car, plane, helicopter, lift from friends or a paid lift from EFT......but that is of course only if they want to go to Orlando....some people leave from Miami or the ton of other airports that are available in the USA
Is that battered Cessna,54G, still on the fleet?
Oh yes......it's got extended range fuel tanks so that it can make an even bigger bang when it goes down......which I thought it was going to do on me a while ago.....but hey.....that's aviation!
Is the Beech Musketeer still derelict on the ramp?
Don't know what it looks like, but if it's not.....there is now a derelict Grumman on the ramp that had it's tail fin chewed off by a hurricane.
Does the Boss's wife still chase the students for car hire cash?
Yes, she does......and she's lovely!!
Do they still refuse to supply a source of coffee on site?
I never asked if they would and was thinking about getting a coffee machine for them when I go back in August (watch this space).........
Oh and by the way.......EFT has one thing in the area that no other JAA approved school has....................
ERICA at the Tiki Restaurant!.......OH MY GAAAAAAAAWD!
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54G battered?
I did my PPL qualifying X-Country on that aircraft about 4 weeks ago and had no problems at all.
Farrell,
Next time you go mate, check out the tall brunette one who works behind the bar area.
Damn I miss Ft. Pierce!
I did my PPL qualifying X-Country on that aircraft about 4 weeks ago and had no problems at all.
Farrell,
Next time you go mate, check out the tall brunette one who works behind the bar area.
Damn I miss Ft. Pierce!
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Birky,
I have just read your response to my initial post and I feel it appropriate to add a few points to the cost issues you are concerned about.
Firstly, Accommodation. You are correct in saying that it is $575 per month for APP students. The structure of the course is such that the students are only in the USA for approx 6/7 months. The rest of the time they are at home studying for ATPL exams or in the UK for the end of their IR.
Therefore the approx cost of accommodation in the USA for the APP student is $4,000. In addition to this there will be a cost of accommodation in the UK for the IR. EFT will provide bed & breakfast details for students. So, what are you actually paying for in the USA? The accommodation cost includes your utility bills and local phone bill. The houses include furniture, TV, Microwave and a washer/dryer. If this accommodation is full then overspill housing is used that provide similar facilities.
When the student returns after the IR to start the Instructor phase there are some options. Firstly, the instructor can stay in the student houses at a reduced rate (currently $450) or secondly they can choose to live elsewhere. I currently live South of Fort Pierce and pay approx $500 per month in a shared house. Many Instructors live with each other outside of the houses and again this is cheaper.
Now, the FAA training cost. $10,000 is an accurate estimate, but it breaks down like this. Initially the outlay is approx $5,000 - this gives you an FAA single engine Commercial/Instrument and CFI rating. This gets you instructing, you have to have these ratings to be legal and insured in the aircraft.
While you are studying for these ratings you will be involved in the school doing ground briefings, airport pick ups and other duties. You will be compensated for this so living is getting a little easier. The aim of it is to bring you into the instructing team and give you some experience and confidence.
Once you have passed your FAA ratings you will start instructing, for the next 6-8 months you will be teaching the JAA PPL, Night and IMC ratings.
Once you have gained 200hrs instructing you will be given a stage check by the CFI which will enable you to start teaching the JAA CPL. Once you have gained sufficient experience, if you want to and it is commercially viable, you can invest the further $5,000 in your FAA Multi Commercial/Instrument, Multi and Instrument Instructor ratings.
To teach in the multi at EFT you need 100hrs mutli time for insurance purposes, the cost of this is covered in the $5,000. It is also worth noting that if you do all these ratings before you start instructing there will be a cost saving. The training for the FAA ratings is conducted by Ari Ben Aviator and they provide very reasonable pricing for EFT students.
The above is my own experiences with EFT and it should be said that EFT are very flexible in terms of your development and they will afford every assistance possible to enable you to meet your own personal goals.
In summary, hopefully you can now see that the accommodation costs are not as much as you thought them to be and the additional FAA ratings give you a significant addition to your CV as well as the hours mentioned on the website.
It is also worth remembering that while instructing here you are being financially compensated and therefore not living off borrowed money anymore. The compensation is approx. $1200 per month - more than enough to live and cover your expenses. Not a glamorous lifestyle, but it is enough.
Hopefully that has clarified any remaining issues for both yourself and any other interested parties. If you have any further concerns please do not hesitate to drop EFT or myself an email.
Once last point to Two Dead Dogs - You are correct EFT don't own their aircraft, they are leased as required from Ari Ben Aviator. A common practice in aviation. This enables EFT to keep costs low and remain in a financially strong position during any downturn in the industry.
The fleet of aircraft now consists of 12 BE76 Duchess, 10 C-172, 1 PA28 Arrow and 1 C-152 (owned by EFT).
Mark Collins.
I have just read your response to my initial post and I feel it appropriate to add a few points to the cost issues you are concerned about.
Firstly, Accommodation. You are correct in saying that it is $575 per month for APP students. The structure of the course is such that the students are only in the USA for approx 6/7 months. The rest of the time they are at home studying for ATPL exams or in the UK for the end of their IR.
Therefore the approx cost of accommodation in the USA for the APP student is $4,000. In addition to this there will be a cost of accommodation in the UK for the IR. EFT will provide bed & breakfast details for students. So, what are you actually paying for in the USA? The accommodation cost includes your utility bills and local phone bill. The houses include furniture, TV, Microwave and a washer/dryer. If this accommodation is full then overspill housing is used that provide similar facilities.
When the student returns after the IR to start the Instructor phase there are some options. Firstly, the instructor can stay in the student houses at a reduced rate (currently $450) or secondly they can choose to live elsewhere. I currently live South of Fort Pierce and pay approx $500 per month in a shared house. Many Instructors live with each other outside of the houses and again this is cheaper.
Now, the FAA training cost. $10,000 is an accurate estimate, but it breaks down like this. Initially the outlay is approx $5,000 - this gives you an FAA single engine Commercial/Instrument and CFI rating. This gets you instructing, you have to have these ratings to be legal and insured in the aircraft.
While you are studying for these ratings you will be involved in the school doing ground briefings, airport pick ups and other duties. You will be compensated for this so living is getting a little easier. The aim of it is to bring you into the instructing team and give you some experience and confidence.
Once you have passed your FAA ratings you will start instructing, for the next 6-8 months you will be teaching the JAA PPL, Night and IMC ratings.
Once you have gained 200hrs instructing you will be given a stage check by the CFI which will enable you to start teaching the JAA CPL. Once you have gained sufficient experience, if you want to and it is commercially viable, you can invest the further $5,000 in your FAA Multi Commercial/Instrument, Multi and Instrument Instructor ratings.
To teach in the multi at EFT you need 100hrs mutli time for insurance purposes, the cost of this is covered in the $5,000. It is also worth noting that if you do all these ratings before you start instructing there will be a cost saving. The training for the FAA ratings is conducted by Ari Ben Aviator and they provide very reasonable pricing for EFT students.
The above is my own experiences with EFT and it should be said that EFT are very flexible in terms of your development and they will afford every assistance possible to enable you to meet your own personal goals.
In summary, hopefully you can now see that the accommodation costs are not as much as you thought them to be and the additional FAA ratings give you a significant addition to your CV as well as the hours mentioned on the website.
It is also worth remembering that while instructing here you are being financially compensated and therefore not living off borrowed money anymore. The compensation is approx. $1200 per month - more than enough to live and cover your expenses. Not a glamorous lifestyle, but it is enough.
Hopefully that has clarified any remaining issues for both yourself and any other interested parties. If you have any further concerns please do not hesitate to drop EFT or myself an email.
Once last point to Two Dead Dogs - You are correct EFT don't own their aircraft, they are leased as required from Ari Ben Aviator. A common practice in aviation. This enables EFT to keep costs low and remain in a financially strong position during any downturn in the industry.
The fleet of aircraft now consists of 12 BE76 Duchess, 10 C-172, 1 PA28 Arrow and 1 C-152 (owned by EFT).
Mark Collins.
Last edited by Mark Collins; 20th May 2005 at 15:27.
Hi all
Mark, I am well aware that many schools and airlines lease their aircraft. I regard it as sub-honest to claim "our school, our fleet, our facilities",etc and then turn up to find that all EFT own is the shirts on their backs and the paper in the copier.That's less than confidence-inspiring.It made me wonder what else they are telling falsies about.
You forgot to reply to my assertion about the 3 percent surcharge imposed by Aviator on foreign credit cards. No such charge applies in shops over there, apart from local sales tax. How did Aviator get away with doing that? That little nugget is not mentioned in any EFT literature.
The fact that persons doing a JAA course pay more per flight hour than FAA students is a con,pure and simple. If an FAA student flies an aircraft for X dollars and the JAA student pays 2X dollars for the same aircraft and the same quality of tuition, then the mug from Europe is subsidising the FAA student.
The lack of a sim is critical. No credible school operates today without one. If EFT UK have one, then EFT USA should have one.
With regard to accomodation, on several occasions, there were failures and instructors had to give students a roof to sleep under. That is not conducive to a good study atmosphere, to say the least.
By what you say, things have improved considerably, but I felt let down by a stream of niggles with their system and have subsequently spent my renewal euros elsewhere.
regards
TDD
Mark, I am well aware that many schools and airlines lease their aircraft. I regard it as sub-honest to claim "our school, our fleet, our facilities",etc and then turn up to find that all EFT own is the shirts on their backs and the paper in the copier.That's less than confidence-inspiring.It made me wonder what else they are telling falsies about.
You forgot to reply to my assertion about the 3 percent surcharge imposed by Aviator on foreign credit cards. No such charge applies in shops over there, apart from local sales tax. How did Aviator get away with doing that? That little nugget is not mentioned in any EFT literature.
The fact that persons doing a JAA course pay more per flight hour than FAA students is a con,pure and simple. If an FAA student flies an aircraft for X dollars and the JAA student pays 2X dollars for the same aircraft and the same quality of tuition, then the mug from Europe is subsidising the FAA student.
The lack of a sim is critical. No credible school operates today without one. If EFT UK have one, then EFT USA should have one.
With regard to accomodation, on several occasions, there were failures and instructors had to give students a roof to sleep under. That is not conducive to a good study atmosphere, to say the least.
By what you say, things have improved considerably, but I felt let down by a stream of niggles with their system and have subsequently spent my renewal euros elsewhere.
regards
TDD
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Just like to add my two cents.
As anyone who has dont their homework properly you will find multiple extra costs in any sort of APP program, from the extra you have to pay for the photo for your first embassy visit to the extra FI CAA MEP rating.
I vetted a fair few UK and US schools and found hidden costs in all, however after speaking to the crew in Florida for US I found them informative, honest, and non contridictary. Yes there are hidden costs, but in fairness if you think you will get every bit of training to take the right seat in a shiny jet for $60k you need to get real.
I read a thread recently where an OFT student nearly lost his life through horrific maintenance. If a discrepancy on a website is all someone can come up with, please I advise you think about what could happen thats worse in an inferior school.
I completed my PPl at shoreham sussex flying club, which is EFT's UK base, and they are the best bunch of guys and proffessionals Ive ever met. I cannot yet comment on the facilities in Florida, but their UK base has a good simulator and approx 4 briefing rooms, and is a perfect location for completing the UK IR, with flights to Le Touquet, Bournemouth, and other airfields/ports that are actually worth bothering visiting.
I also read in this thread that there are few places left. As said before testament to a good school I pray, and the less competition the better
As anyone who has dont their homework properly you will find multiple extra costs in any sort of APP program, from the extra you have to pay for the photo for your first embassy visit to the extra FI CAA MEP rating.
I vetted a fair few UK and US schools and found hidden costs in all, however after speaking to the crew in Florida for US I found them informative, honest, and non contridictary. Yes there are hidden costs, but in fairness if you think you will get every bit of training to take the right seat in a shiny jet for $60k you need to get real.
I read a thread recently where an OFT student nearly lost his life through horrific maintenance. If a discrepancy on a website is all someone can come up with, please I advise you think about what could happen thats worse in an inferior school.
I completed my PPl at shoreham sussex flying club, which is EFT's UK base, and they are the best bunch of guys and proffessionals Ive ever met. I cannot yet comment on the facilities in Florida, but their UK base has a good simulator and approx 4 briefing rooms, and is a perfect location for completing the UK IR, with flights to Le Touquet, Bournemouth, and other airfields/ports that are actually worth bothering visiting.
I also read in this thread that there are few places left. As said before testament to a good school I pray, and the less competition the better
Last edited by cosworth211; 21st May 2005 at 11:31.