EFT - APP program
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: England
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys
Don't let Mark Birkett wind you up. I've had dealings with him in the past. He is one of those people who analyse schools to death, no correction, get other people to analyse schools to death for him then moves on another school and starts all over again.
Here is the contents of a recent conversation with him (PS. the secrecy he mentions is perhaps to do with the fact this forum can be anonnymous!):
Bodie,
Well that's a cryptic email if I ever saw one! Two things occur to me;
- One, you're quite right. I have taken a serious interest in Stapleford and may still work with them yet. They appear to be an excellent school with whom I would be happy to do business. However, their only downfall, like every other UK school is the dodgy weather and high fuel prices, which in turn lead to students being unable to get as many hours (esp. ME hrs) as operators appear to want. (www.themightymarcus.com/marketresearch.html)
EFT on the other hand seem to be equally well-thought of as an FTO and yet can offer more hours for the same money as well as. So, no mystery really is there?
- Second, if we've met before why the secrecy? Who are you?
Thanks for your input anyway..
Regards
Birky
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bodie wrote on 7th May 2005 22:05:
Mark,
From your website, and previous dealings with youself (perhaps unknown to you) you strike me as somewhat unsure of what path to take, and I wonder if you are seriously interested in EFT, since you have in the past been seriously interested in many other organisations including Stapleford.
EFT, like many other JAA training organisations in the UK and abroad offer a very high standard of training and at some point you will have to take the plunge and go for one. I also found myself overanalysing schools and checking reputation and prices but in the end you must plump for a decision and get the ball rolling, otherwise you'll be loosing your medical on age grounds!
Best if luck
Bodie
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Birky wrote on 6th May 2005 12:24:
Dear Bodie,
I saw your post on PPRUNE regarding EFT. I understand you are now there training.
I am seriously interested in EFT and wondered whether you might be willing to share your views on a number of subjects related to training there? If so, I would very, very much appreciate you dropping an email to:
[email protected]
I have about 30 questions which only someone who had been to EFT could answer. (yup, the other 6000 have been answered already!)
In return, I am very happy to share any information I have with you. (For instance, you may be interested in an employer survey I conducted here in the UK back in Jan 2005. The results were quite useful for any aspiring commercial pilots. www.themightymarcus.com/marketresearch.html )
Hope to hear from you soon,
Regards
Birky (Mark Birkett)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't let Mark Birkett wind you up. I've had dealings with him in the past. He is one of those people who analyse schools to death, no correction, get other people to analyse schools to death for him then moves on another school and starts all over again.
Here is the contents of a recent conversation with him (PS. the secrecy he mentions is perhaps to do with the fact this forum can be anonnymous!):
Bodie,
Well that's a cryptic email if I ever saw one! Two things occur to me;
- One, you're quite right. I have taken a serious interest in Stapleford and may still work with them yet. They appear to be an excellent school with whom I would be happy to do business. However, their only downfall, like every other UK school is the dodgy weather and high fuel prices, which in turn lead to students being unable to get as many hours (esp. ME hrs) as operators appear to want. (www.themightymarcus.com/marketresearch.html)
EFT on the other hand seem to be equally well-thought of as an FTO and yet can offer more hours for the same money as well as. So, no mystery really is there?
- Second, if we've met before why the secrecy? Who are you?
Thanks for your input anyway..
Regards
Birky
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bodie wrote on 7th May 2005 22:05:
Mark,
From your website, and previous dealings with youself (perhaps unknown to you) you strike me as somewhat unsure of what path to take, and I wonder if you are seriously interested in EFT, since you have in the past been seriously interested in many other organisations including Stapleford.
EFT, like many other JAA training organisations in the UK and abroad offer a very high standard of training and at some point you will have to take the plunge and go for one. I also found myself overanalysing schools and checking reputation and prices but in the end you must plump for a decision and get the ball rolling, otherwise you'll be loosing your medical on age grounds!
Best if luck
Bodie
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Birky wrote on 6th May 2005 12:24:
Dear Bodie,
I saw your post on PPRUNE regarding EFT. I understand you are now there training.
I am seriously interested in EFT and wondered whether you might be willing to share your views on a number of subjects related to training there? If so, I would very, very much appreciate you dropping an email to:
[email protected]
I have about 30 questions which only someone who had been to EFT could answer. (yup, the other 6000 have been answered already!)
In return, I am very happy to share any information I have with you. (For instance, you may be interested in an employer survey I conducted here in the UK back in Jan 2005. The results were quite useful for any aspiring commercial pilots. www.themightymarcus.com/marketresearch.html )
Hope to hear from you soon,
Regards
Birky (Mark Birkett)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Bodie; 21st May 2005 at 14:52.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bodie,
I swear this thread is getting more interesting by the day!
According to Bodie (whoever that is) I ask people to analyse flying schools for me and then move on to others; the implication being that I enjoy wasting people's time as well as my own.
Completely not the case. (Actually, I am cheesed off that it's taking so long to find the right school and that my funding is burning a hole in my pocket).
The link you have posted to www.themightymarcus.com is no longer working (but I'll happily post the content elsewhere if asked). The information on in was a survey of 122 employers/operators in the UK which I chose to share with ppruners. Are you having a dig about that? If so, why?
Bodie, I have to confess, I have absolutely no idea who you are, no idea why you are taking a delight in remaining anonymous, and I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about either.
You say you've had "dealings with [me] in the past"...what "dealings" exactly?
Are you sure you're on the right website? Come out of the closet Bodie, it's very friendly out here really!
Regards, Birky (Mark James Ros Birkett to be exact)
I swear this thread is getting more interesting by the day!
According to Bodie (whoever that is) I ask people to analyse flying schools for me and then move on to others; the implication being that I enjoy wasting people's time as well as my own.
Completely not the case. (Actually, I am cheesed off that it's taking so long to find the right school and that my funding is burning a hole in my pocket).
The link you have posted to www.themightymarcus.com is no longer working (but I'll happily post the content elsewhere if asked). The information on in was a survey of 122 employers/operators in the UK which I chose to share with ppruners. Are you having a dig about that? If so, why?
Bodie, I have to confess, I have absolutely no idea who you are, no idea why you are taking a delight in remaining anonymous, and I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about either.
You say you've had "dealings with [me] in the past"...what "dealings" exactly?
Are you sure you're on the right website? Come out of the closet Bodie, it's very friendly out here really!
Regards, Birky (Mark James Ros Birkett to be exact)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another week goes by...
Re: Mark Collins' last post:
Many thanks for your last post Mark. Plenty of useful points and clarifications in it. (Had EFT's initial response to me been equally factual, polite and professional, I am sure there would have been no need for this thread).
Just an observation; it occurs to me that you have now written two lengthy posts here on PPRuNe. The only thing that baffles me is that the original errors on the website are still there after yet another week has gone by.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flyeft.com/library/app_schedule.pdf
(ME hours are still incorrect)
http://www.flyeft.com/inside_eft/accommodation.html
(Accommodation still shown as included in the APP price)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given the amount of effort you are prepared to put into defending EFT here, perhaps they should put you in charge of editing the website too?
Alternatively, given that I once ran a web development business, perhaps I should offer to make the edits for EFT myself.
Ah well, nevertheless, thank you again for a considered response.
Regards
Birky
Many thanks for your last post Mark. Plenty of useful points and clarifications in it. (Had EFT's initial response to me been equally factual, polite and professional, I am sure there would have been no need for this thread).
Just an observation; it occurs to me that you have now written two lengthy posts here on PPRuNe. The only thing that baffles me is that the original errors on the website are still there after yet another week has gone by.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flyeft.com/library/app_schedule.pdf
(ME hours are still incorrect)
http://www.flyeft.com/inside_eft/accommodation.html
(Accommodation still shown as included in the APP price)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given the amount of effort you are prepared to put into defending EFT here, perhaps they should put you in charge of editing the website too?
Alternatively, given that I once ran a web development business, perhaps I should offer to make the edits for EFT myself.
Ah well, nevertheless, thank you again for a considered response.
Regards
Birky
Last edited by Birky; 22nd May 2005 at 10:50.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Antonio
Since November 2004 or thereabouts I think. Several reasons for that:
- Saving the difference between what I can borrow and what it is likely to cost.
- Taking a good number of trial lessons to see how flying really feels.
- Conducting a survey directly with UK employers to see just how my job prospects look, given that I am 40.
- Arranging a C1 medical.
- Researching SA, NZ, US and UK flying schools as thoroughly as possible to help decide on the best route to an ATPL
- Warming my wife up to the whole idea
Why do you ask?
Birky
Since November 2004 or thereabouts I think. Several reasons for that:
- Saving the difference between what I can borrow and what it is likely to cost.
- Taking a good number of trial lessons to see how flying really feels.
- Conducting a survey directly with UK employers to see just how my job prospects look, given that I am 40.
- Arranging a C1 medical.
- Researching SA, NZ, US and UK flying schools as thoroughly as possible to help decide on the best route to an ATPL
- Warming my wife up to the whole idea
Why do you ask?
Birky
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Birky,
The amount of time you have wasted posting on this website, running a fine comb through every single irrelvant detail.... you could have already been halfway to a fATPL.......
The amount of time you have wasted posting on this website, running a fine comb through every single irrelvant detail.... you could have already been halfway to a fATPL.......
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: City Of London
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.....and BoredAccountant, instead of wasting your time involving yourself in a slanging match which helps nobody, you could have invested your time in assisting with genuine responses.
You must realise that it is not everyday somebody invests a vast sum of money to re-train. I understand that people wish to seek others opinions, and Pprune has always been a good forum to investigate them. I'm not 'having a go.' Just tired of seeing people put-down so frequently on Pprune. I tolerate and do not mind reading, and where I can, assisting people in any way. It should be human nature, not to mention good practice for your future job, to help & tolerate others.
You must realise that it is not everyday somebody invests a vast sum of money to re-train. I understand that people wish to seek others opinions, and Pprune has always been a good forum to investigate them. I'm not 'having a go.' Just tired of seeing people put-down so frequently on Pprune. I tolerate and do not mind reading, and where I can, assisting people in any way. It should be human nature, not to mention good practice for your future job, to help & tolerate others.
Last edited by Biz; 24th May 2005 at 16:21.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK/Spain
Age: 62
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Birky,
Going back to your original message which started the thread I would think the only constructive route you can take from here is with Trevor himself as it was his e-mail to which you seem to have taken offence. You have received a lot of input from other contributors which albeit genuine, hasn't really solved much.
So the question you have to be able to answer is whether or not you could be happy at EFT, which you need to be if you are going to be receptive to your training, or will it always be in the back of your mind that you are being ripped off/held back/overlooked because Trevor has apparently taken a dislike to you. If the latter is the case then that surely has to rule them out as one of your choices. Not necessarily a reflection on them or you, but you're just not compatible with each other.
IMHO to continue this thread in its present tone is just going to make you look worse in their eyes and probably them in yours so bite the bullet.
Going back to your original message which started the thread I would think the only constructive route you can take from here is with Trevor himself as it was his e-mail to which you seem to have taken offence. You have received a lot of input from other contributors which albeit genuine, hasn't really solved much.
So the question you have to be able to answer is whether or not you could be happy at EFT, which you need to be if you are going to be receptive to your training, or will it always be in the back of your mind that you are being ripped off/held back/overlooked because Trevor has apparently taken a dislike to you. If the latter is the case then that surely has to rule them out as one of your choices. Not necessarily a reflection on them or you, but you're just not compatible with each other.
IMHO to continue this thread in its present tone is just going to make you look worse in their eyes and probably them in yours so bite the bullet.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fort Pierce
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I couldn't agree more!
But they still won't let Farrell back on to this section of the forum!
I've been asked to intervene on his behalf.....so if whoever denied him access to the forum is around, could you at least explain to him what he has done wrong!
He assumes it's because he is irritated by Birky; hates prunster and was a little too public about that.
But they still won't let Farrell back on to this section of the forum!
I've been asked to intervene on his behalf.....so if whoever denied him access to the forum is around, could you at least explain to him what he has done wrong!
He assumes it's because he is irritated by Birky; hates prunster and was a little too public about that.
Last edited by Papa Owfa; 24th May 2005 at 16:47.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fort Pierce
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think you keep throwing snide comments in his direction.....and can't see the funny side of things. He's pi**ed off with you - not that I'm sure you care but.....well, he's a nice guy
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Biz...
Wise up and get your facts right before you speak. I have invested very heavily in my time answering Private Messages to people who have sent me questions regarding various topics of training etc.... In addition, in order to save my time, I have taken at least 6 phone calls in the last 3 months from students with genuine concerns and questions who I have tried to share my own experiences and offer any help and adice I can.
The only ' slagging match ' I have ever got involved in was in this particular thread... and it was in response to commments made by other posters only directed at me.
Wise up and get your facts right before you speak. I have invested very heavily in my time answering Private Messages to people who have sent me questions regarding various topics of training etc.... In addition, in order to save my time, I have taken at least 6 phone calls in the last 3 months from students with genuine concerns and questions who I have tried to share my own experiences and offer any help and adice I can.
The only ' slagging match ' I have ever got involved in was in this particular thread... and it was in response to commments made by other posters only directed at me.
Join Date: Jan 1997
Location: UK
Posts: 7,737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Farrel has a few apologies to make - it's a simple as that. Bored accountant is getting close to being in the same position.
All of you will have the baffling experience of meeting other wannabees who have never heard of PPRuNe let alone this thread.
Therefore if their only souce of initial information and costings is unclear, misleading, inaccurate or false it will get hammered home here.
Is that clear enough?
The huge proportion of IT aware wanabees know how simple it is to change text in a website. Therefore they are reading this thread and coming to their own conclusions as to EFT's response to genuine and accurately stated concerns.
The same goes for the repeated complaints year after year regarding NAC and e-mail. Pulling up the drawbridge an adopting a defensive seige mentality hugely harms a business no matter how good the training is.
You don't get it do you - you expect folks to accept your anonymous claims yet ignore the evidence on the website they can see with their own eyes.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. My 11 year old can make the changes - why can't EFT? Even more importantly - why haven't they?
Regards
Rob
All of you will have the baffling experience of meeting other wannabees who have never heard of PPRuNe let alone this thread.
Therefore if their only souce of initial information and costings is unclear, misleading, inaccurate or false it will get hammered home here.
Is that clear enough?
The huge proportion of IT aware wanabees know how simple it is to change text in a website. Therefore they are reading this thread and coming to their own conclusions as to EFT's response to genuine and accurately stated concerns.
The same goes for the repeated complaints year after year regarding NAC and e-mail. Pulling up the drawbridge an adopting a defensive seige mentality hugely harms a business no matter how good the training is.
You don't get it do you - you expect folks to accept your anonymous claims yet ignore the evidence on the website they can see with their own eyes.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. My 11 year old can make the changes - why can't EFT? Even more importantly - why haven't they?
Regards
Rob
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Fort Pierce
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Farrell's apologies can be found below:
"Dear Prunster
I am so very sorry for saying that I wanted to shove your left-hand seat up your a*se and slagging off your 52 years of experience in this business. It was immature and unprofessional and therefore I apologise to you unreservedly.
Kind Regards
Wayne"
"Dear Birky
You have the God-given right to spend your time whatever way you want. I am sorry for saying that your attitude of believing everything you read would result in a CFIT incident because you would rather take a misprinted approach plate as fact, then what the guy on approach was telling you.
Again, I apologise to you unreservedly.
Wayne"
"Dear Pprune Towers
I know you have better things to do than having to sort out and delete my comments.
I apologise to you unreservedly too.
Wayne"
"Dear Ppruners
I know that some of my recent comments have been offensive to some of you. I know that if I feel that someone else is being an idiot or just wasting server space, that that is not really any of my business and I should therefore keep my mouth shut about it and not verbally attack people for being themselves.
I apologise to all of you unreservedly.
Wayne"
He hopes that these apologies will allow him access to the training forum once again and he promises to censor himself from now on.
"Dear Prunster
I am so very sorry for saying that I wanted to shove your left-hand seat up your a*se and slagging off your 52 years of experience in this business. It was immature and unprofessional and therefore I apologise to you unreservedly.
Kind Regards
Wayne"
"Dear Birky
You have the God-given right to spend your time whatever way you want. I am sorry for saying that your attitude of believing everything you read would result in a CFIT incident because you would rather take a misprinted approach plate as fact, then what the guy on approach was telling you.
Again, I apologise to you unreservedly.
Wayne"
"Dear Pprune Towers
I know you have better things to do than having to sort out and delete my comments.
I apologise to you unreservedly too.
Wayne"
"Dear Ppruners
I know that some of my recent comments have been offensive to some of you. I know that if I feel that someone else is being an idiot or just wasting server space, that that is not really any of my business and I should therefore keep my mouth shut about it and not verbally attack people for being themselves.
I apologise to all of you unreservedly.
Wayne"
He hopes that these apologies will allow him access to the training forum once again and he promises to censor himself from now on.
