Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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I don't think there's much relevance of any degree courses to piloting. On your flying licence course, you cover all the necessary learning. Nice to have in reserve, but as for a degree course improving your flying or job chances....I don't think so! (37 years flying and still no degree!)
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Jonny, being only just 17 (4 days ago) and only in the year above you then my advice may not be the best around! However, I have spoken to many experienced pilots, and from what I know the best thing you can do is to gain as much information on flying as you possibly can. If possible try and get a PPL as this will show the airlines you are determined.
I am studying English Lang, Business Studies, IT and Popular music (the slack version of music). I am continuing all 4 onto the A-level year. The pilots that I know say as long as you have 3 C's of which none of them are "slacker" subjects (like the Pop music I do) then you should be alright. But dont forget, academics are not everything and intelligence is different to academics. I flew solo when I was 16 and should have my PPL soon. Ever since I was 13 I was reading books on flying. Someone else mentioned the Trevor Thom books, these are very good but to be honest I would only advise to read Trevor Thom 1 and possibly 2 if you arent going to train for a PPL. Trevor Thom 1 and 2 will give you a beginners understanding of flying and help you to understand the basics of flying. And dont just read them once, read them until you know every word off by heart in the books, and you know what every single page has on it. If you cannot keep reading these books over and over again then maybe aviation isn't the career for you. I find that every time I
re-read a book I learn several new things. All of these things may help in the future. I basically now have a library of books on aircraft that I have read, ranging from ATC procedures/Boeing 757 Manuals/ Instrument navigation to VOR-ILS-NDB procedures... I simply can't get enough of aviation. I am not an academic (predicted 4 C's at A-level), but I am hoping my determination will get me a career. Dont forget there are many organisations out there that will help you, for example: www.pilotcareercentre.com is excellent.
Hope this is of some help,
Mark Wilson
I am studying English Lang, Business Studies, IT and Popular music (the slack version of music). I am continuing all 4 onto the A-level year. The pilots that I know say as long as you have 3 C's of which none of them are "slacker" subjects (like the Pop music I do) then you should be alright. But dont forget, academics are not everything and intelligence is different to academics. I flew solo when I was 16 and should have my PPL soon. Ever since I was 13 I was reading books on flying. Someone else mentioned the Trevor Thom books, these are very good but to be honest I would only advise to read Trevor Thom 1 and possibly 2 if you arent going to train for a PPL. Trevor Thom 1 and 2 will give you a beginners understanding of flying and help you to understand the basics of flying. And dont just read them once, read them until you know every word off by heart in the books, and you know what every single page has on it. If you cannot keep reading these books over and over again then maybe aviation isn't the career for you. I find that every time I
re-read a book I learn several new things. All of these things may help in the future. I basically now have a library of books on aircraft that I have read, ranging from ATC procedures/Boeing 757 Manuals/ Instrument navigation to VOR-ILS-NDB procedures... I simply can't get enough of aviation. I am not an academic (predicted 4 C's at A-level), but I am hoping my determination will get me a career. Dont forget there are many organisations out there that will help you, for example: www.pilotcareercentre.com is excellent.
Hope this is of some help,
Mark Wilson
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don't waste your time on university if you want to become a pilot!
As a formal qualification, a degree itself is of no real benefit if one wishes a job as a professional pilot (certainly, any limited advantage it might bestow is more than outweighed by the financial and time cost, that might have been used to acquire additional flying experience or advanced ratings).
On the other hand, there are a lot of very qualified but unemployed or underemployed pilots out there ... from a career perspective, one might be better off learning some other profession or trade, fly as a hobby, and make the switch to professional flying when/if the opportunity presents itself.
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I posted a reply with my opinion at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...&pagenumber=2.
Consider all of the facts that:
Far more people have a degree now than those who currently fly, so consider that requirements in the future may change.
Those who have not been to university are not always able to advise on its merits and dismerits; only on the merits and dismerits of not having gone.
How you might fund training, and with what earnings?
Are you interested in going to university, and do you think it will help you develop as a person?
Consider degrees with aviation inserted eg Cranfield etc (I do not mean aero eng though, which you should only really consider if that as a career interests you, as it is not easy)
Consider all of the facts that:
Far more people have a degree now than those who currently fly, so consider that requirements in the future may change.
Those who have not been to university are not always able to advise on its merits and dismerits; only on the merits and dismerits of not having gone.
How you might fund training, and with what earnings?
Are you interested in going to university, and do you think it will help you develop as a person?
Consider degrees with aviation inserted eg Cranfield etc (I do not mean aero eng though, which you should only really consider if that as a career interests you, as it is not easy)
Last edited by Re-Heat; 10th Jun 2004 at 11:48.
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UNI DEGREE! NOT A WASTE OF TIME AT ALL
I have a Uni degree and is NOT A WASTE OF TIME!
I went to Uni as a back up plan just incase I mess up or no jobs in future. It is well worth going to uni. There are many degrees aviation related that u could do.
But I agree with FlyPuppy its a good grounding in life. You learn so much that will help you in future, working in teams, presentation skills, independency, meeting weird and wonderful people, it prepares you for the real world, you learn organisation skills, theres just so many advantages.....its good for interviews as well, it shows that you are willing to learn. If you do decide to go to uni it would be an advantage to do languages as airlines do like that!
You don't know whats going to happen in the future so its best to have a back up plan!
good luck with whatever you do!
E.T
I went to Uni as a back up plan just incase I mess up or no jobs in future. It is well worth going to uni. There are many degrees aviation related that u could do.
But I agree with FlyPuppy its a good grounding in life. You learn so much that will help you in future, working in teams, presentation skills, independency, meeting weird and wonderful people, it prepares you for the real world, you learn organisation skills, theres just so many advantages.....its good for interviews as well, it shows that you are willing to learn. If you do decide to go to uni it would be an advantage to do languages as airlines do like that!
You don't know whats going to happen in the future so its best to have a back up plan!
good luck with whatever you do!
E.T
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Just wondering, since you used the word "fall" instead of Autumn, I can't but help wondering if you have an American background! If you do and you want a job here, then a degree in anything will definately help your interview process in the USA since you can't get a job with the majors without it. However, some schools over here offer degrees such as Aviation Science, a degree in my humble opinion, as useful as a chocolate teacup. Most of their subjects are covered in the JAR ATP exams anyway, but they charge huge somes of money for a 4 year degree and an ATP license. In my mind, not worth it. If on the other hand you are in the Uk, as far as I'm aware, a degree is not required and therefore not worth the effort.
Sorry, just one more thing, getting a degree is not a bad idea, but get a degree in something you will enjoy, not to just to tick a box or a hoop to jump through to be a pilot. You never know, it may come in handy oneday.
Sorry, just one more thing, getting a degree is not a bad idea, but get a degree in something you will enjoy, not to just to tick a box or a hoop to jump through to be a pilot. You never know, it may come in handy oneday.
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Ive been through the stage where I done a lot of researching on pprune by posting and reading.
Im 18 years aold finishing A-Levels and I can tell you that I have decided to get a degree. However, my plan is to take a gap year and do the ATPL theory. Im at an advantage since i already hold a PPL.
My degree choice is Electronic Engineering at a University of London, while I do the degree, I'l finish off all the flying requirements (CPL, IR) as I do the degree.
As I finish the degree, Il hopefully be the proud owner of an fATPL and a BEng degree, hopefully.
Im 18 years aold finishing A-Levels and I can tell you that I have decided to get a degree. However, my plan is to take a gap year and do the ATPL theory. Im at an advantage since i already hold a PPL.
My degree choice is Electronic Engineering at a University of London, while I do the degree, I'l finish off all the flying requirements (CPL, IR) as I do the degree.
As I finish the degree, Il hopefully be the proud owner of an fATPL and a BEng degree, hopefully.
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Thanks alot for all of the help. The degree that I have chosen is Physics and Astronomy. I'm not really sure how that may help me to fly, but who knows? I agree with all of the people out there who say that university will help me to become a more rounded person. As for going in the 'fall', well, I'm from Canada. What did you expect? Unfortunatley, there are very few universities here that will offer a course that also allows you to fly. Western Ontario does, but it will cost $15,000 a year in tuition alone for four years, and then there is residence, food, etc. Also, the flight aspect only comes into play after the normal course load, (ie all day at school, then three hours of flight training after. No time for a job, or any type of life at all, though I don't expect that I'll have any time at all to have a life with all of my studying. And the worst part is that for the first year you pay that little $10,000 for flight training, but do not actually take any training until second year. I figured that with a degree I could find some type of employment, pay off my loans and save enough for the licence. Any advice?
Just a thought - it is just about as difficult to get a good Aero Eng job as it isto get an airline gig - so maybe another (almost any other) degree might be the go.
Also helps to develop interests outside flying unless you want to be one of those people that live, sleep and breathe flying. Personally, I like to get away from aeroplanes and aeroplane geeks when I'm not at work in my shiny brown Boeing cockpit.
Also helps to develop interests outside flying unless you want to be one of those people that live, sleep and breathe flying. Personally, I like to get away from aeroplanes and aeroplane geeks when I'm not at work in my shiny brown Boeing cockpit.
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Well, I like to Scuba dive, but that kind of gets in the way when you fly. How much spare time do you guys get between flights? The medical effects of diving then flying restrict me to diving then waiting a period of 24 hours before making any kind of ascent.
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Get a degree, preferably something with a connection to the aviation industry, I have one in Mech Eng, and it definately helped me loads during the ATPL exams I cant understand why pentworth reckons that his Masters in Aeronautics wasnt helpful!!!
If I hadnt studied the likes of turbines, bernoullis equation, coefficient of lift etc prior to the starting the ATPLs, I would hate to think how much more difficult it would have been.
In these competitive times you have to have a USP, unique selling point, so that when Mr Chief Pilot decides to pick up a thousand CVs you have to have an edge on the 999 other applicants, also if I was in the position of hiring and had to choose one of two guys I would go for one with a degree rather than one who when straight into flying from school!!
If I had to do it again I would do aeronautical instead of mechanical but still I would certainly recommend it!!
If I hadnt studied the likes of turbines, bernoullis equation, coefficient of lift etc prior to the starting the ATPLs, I would hate to think how much more difficult it would have been.
In these competitive times you have to have a USP, unique selling point, so that when Mr Chief Pilot decides to pick up a thousand CVs you have to have an edge on the 999 other applicants, also if I was in the position of hiring and had to choose one of two guys I would go for one with a degree rather than one who when straight into flying from school!!
If I had to do it again I would do aeronautical instead of mechanical but still I would certainly recommend it!!
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Engineering degrees are no more use than history degrees in the process of flying and operating a modern aircraft. Do not, under any circumstances, take an aeronautical engineering degree if your only motivation is to increase your employability as a pilot. You will probably fail the degree, and thus have wasted your time at university, or, should you manage to pass, you will have learned little of any relevence to piloting an airliner. You will also find that your degree carries no more weight with employers than the Geography graduate's - and he will have had much more time to enjoy himself while at uni!
As we keep telling you guys, you must examine your motives for getting a degree. If your abiding interest is aeronautical engineering, and your maths is of a high standard, go for it and enjoy it. If your passion is 'media studies with underwater basket weaving', do that instead. Do try to take a subject which may have some relevence in the wider world of work should flying not work out, but not to the extent of studying a subject you have no interest in.
Alternatively, consider training for a trade which will pay you while you do your pilot training.
Scroggs
As we keep telling you guys, you must examine your motives for getting a degree. If your abiding interest is aeronautical engineering, and your maths is of a high standard, go for it and enjoy it. If your passion is 'media studies with underwater basket weaving', do that instead. Do try to take a subject which may have some relevence in the wider world of work should flying not work out, but not to the extent of studying a subject you have no interest in.
Alternatively, consider training for a trade which will pay you while you do your pilot training.
Scroggs
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Have to agree with Scroggs on this one. Especially re. learning a trade.
There is too much snobbery surrounding a degree nowadays, and what does it give you? Debt and bugger all else
. Especially now the government are degrading its perceived value by making up an arbitrary target for quantity of bods going to Uni.
There is too much snobbery surrounding a degree nowadays, and what does it give you? Debt and bugger all else
. Especially now the government are degrading its perceived value by making up an arbitrary target for quantity of bods going to Uni.
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I'm also in the 'University is great but don't try and use it for your ATPL exams' school of thought.
Sorry pinkpilot, I have to agree with penworth. I have an MEng from a decent uni (ie one that wasn't a poly 10 years ago) and it didn't help me with my ATPL's one bit.
That is not to say it hindered me in any shape or form (14 first time passes
) but it was largely irrelevant.
There was nothing in the groundschool that was more difficult than my O Level (Not GCSE!) maths or physics - never mind A Level and certainly not my degree!
I am sure that an aeronautical degree course would mean that you understood PoF (for example) in detail prior to ATPL's, but is a 3/4 year degree really necessary for something you can do in your spare time over a month or two? (It certainly wont help ypu with HP&L, Met etc...)
Having said that, I would personally go to uni again in a second - for all the reasons discussed above (not going to repeat them all) but if nothing else I would imagine an 18 yr old airline sponsored student who has gone straight from school won't be as interesting to talk to in the cockpit as the 23 year old who has been to india backpacking etc...
And as to the employability of graduates v non-grads - I'll let you know if I ever get a flying job!
Sorry pinkpilot, I have to agree with penworth. I have an MEng from a decent uni (ie one that wasn't a poly 10 years ago) and it didn't help me with my ATPL's one bit.
That is not to say it hindered me in any shape or form (14 first time passes
) but it was largely irrelevant. There was nothing in the groundschool that was more difficult than my O Level (Not GCSE!) maths or physics - never mind A Level and certainly not my degree!
I am sure that an aeronautical degree course would mean that you understood PoF (for example) in detail prior to ATPL's, but is a 3/4 year degree really necessary for something you can do in your spare time over a month or two? (It certainly wont help ypu with HP&L, Met etc...)
Having said that, I would personally go to uni again in a second - for all the reasons discussed above (not going to repeat them all) but if nothing else I would imagine an 18 yr old airline sponsored student who has gone straight from school won't be as interesting to talk to in the cockpit as the 23 year old who has been to india backpacking etc...
And as to the employability of graduates v non-grads - I'll let you know if I ever get a flying job!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
If you are hell bent on getting a degree and you want one that is useful to the aviation world then have a look at Kingston's Foundation Degree in Aircraft Engineering
This degree will get you JAA recognised aircraft engineering qualifications and you'll do work experience at KLM's engineering facility at Norwich. In other words, you'll really know how an aeroplane works and it will definitely help you with the systems component of the JAR ATPL.
Also, if all else fails and you lose your medical/can't get flying work then you'll have industry recognised qualifications that will or should get you a job fixing them.
This degree will get you JAA recognised aircraft engineering qualifications and you'll do work experience at KLM's engineering facility at Norwich. In other words, you'll really know how an aeroplane works and it will definitely help you with the systems component of the JAR ATPL.
Also, if all else fails and you lose your medical/can't get flying work then you'll have industry recognised qualifications that will or should get you a job fixing them.