Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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How important is a degree?
Although it is not essential to have a degree to become an airline pilot is studying for a degree worthwhile.
I've noticed some airliners suggest a degree would be helpful whilst others do not really mention in great detail the education level they expect.
I've noticed some airliners suggest a degree would be helpful whilst others do not really mention in great detail the education level they expect.
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Managed to speak with T-Prop fleet manager at FlyBE. He told me he looks for the results in the ATPL theory exams rather than whether said applicant has a degree in geology or dance etc
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This thread from the GAPAN website details some important questions that were asked to airlines regarding the employment of low hour, newly qualified pilots.
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm
It appears that 'university entry level' qualifications are what most airlines require, suggesting that a degree is not necessary. However, I think it is fair to say that many of the other key skills they look for in low hour pilots would be learnt and improved upon while studying at university. This is not to say they cannot be learned through other means but speaking personally, I know I learn't far more at uni than I ever thought I could. I've grown up and matured a lot over these last three years and now feel its the right time to start professional training. Looking back I can honestly say that at 18 I wasn't ready for it. If I had the choice again I would go to uni, you learn so much more than whats listed in your course prospectus and you'll have a great time! Best of luck
WD
http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm
It appears that 'university entry level' qualifications are what most airlines require, suggesting that a degree is not necessary. However, I think it is fair to say that many of the other key skills they look for in low hour pilots would be learnt and improved upon while studying at university. This is not to say they cannot be learned through other means but speaking personally, I know I learn't far more at uni than I ever thought I could. I've grown up and matured a lot over these last three years and now feel its the right time to start professional training. Looking back I can honestly say that at 18 I wasn't ready for it. If I had the choice again I would go to uni, you learn so much more than whats listed in your course prospectus and you'll have a great time! Best of luck
WD
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A 'degree' on its own isnt really any useful for being a pilot.
However the skills that you would learn at University would be INVALUABLE!
It's not just skills like teamworking, communication, intellectual, problemsolving or leadership but personal development; like maturity.
If all you want to do is 'just get a degree' Id say dont bother, save your £££ (~£25k with the new higher tuition fees) and go straight into flight training.
If howver you want to develop those skills listed above, which is what the AIRLINES WANT; do a bit of research, choose a subject you enjoy, and look for other opportunities like University Air Squadrons where YOU get PAID to LEARN to FLY!!
However the skills that you would learn at University would be INVALUABLE!
It's not just skills like teamworking, communication, intellectual, problemsolving or leadership but personal development; like maturity.
If all you want to do is 'just get a degree' Id say dont bother, save your £££ (~£25k with the new higher tuition fees) and go straight into flight training.
If howver you want to develop those skills listed above, which is what the AIRLINES WANT; do a bit of research, choose a subject you enjoy, and look for other opportunities like University Air Squadrons where YOU get PAID to LEARN to FLY!!
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Cheers for the replys,
The degree im studying is Aeronautical Engineering so it does atleast have some relevance to flight/aircraft/controls etc.
After i complete my degree i aim to pursue a career as an aircraft pilot.
The degree im studying is Aeronautical Engineering so it does atleast have some relevance to flight/aircraft/controls etc.
After i complete my degree i aim to pursue a career as an aircraft pilot.
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I have an MBA, speak fluently 3 european langages, sent 800 letters in the past year.... still on the search.
A degree is good if you already have a rating and hours on type.
A degree is good if you already have a rating and hours on type.
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Had you read this thread, you would have found the three topics linked to within that examine this question in some detail. I recommend you have a look now.
Scroggs
Scroggs
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i agree with this at the moment a degree is not necessary but whos to say that wont change in the future?
Airlines want people with relevant practical degrees to make their managers in the future.
Later in life when youve done so much flying that you dont even log hours anymore and your eyesight starts to go or any other medical issue which comes with age could cause you to loose your licencse. At this point what do you do? If you have a degree you have that qualification to fall back on putting you ahead of others in the airline without degrees for the management/ operations roles. Therefore a degree is a distinct advantage as you are higher qualified and you will mature and change as an individual through an experience as a student.
Aeroeng i too am an aeronautical engineering graduate!gd luck with the studies you couldnt be in a more relavent field for an aspiring pilot.
Airlines want people with relevant practical degrees to make their managers in the future.
Later in life when youve done so much flying that you dont even log hours anymore and your eyesight starts to go or any other medical issue which comes with age could cause you to loose your licencse. At this point what do you do? If you have a degree you have that qualification to fall back on putting you ahead of others in the airline without degrees for the management/ operations roles. Therefore a degree is a distinct advantage as you are higher qualified and you will mature and change as an individual through an experience as a student.
Aeroeng i too am an aeronautical engineering graduate!gd luck with the studies you couldnt be in a more relavent field for an aspiring pilot.
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At the end of the day, if it was you up against someone with no education and 500hrs on type...they'd go for that guy with on type experience. Not sure if it stands any weight at all because everyone has to go through selection. It might help you get to selection and would provide some 'blurb' for you to talk about in the interview.
At the end of the day, it does no harm and is great for a backup. But, it can delay your training for upto 4 years...and costs.
Best of luck with whatever you decide.
At the end of the day, it does no harm and is great for a backup. But, it can delay your training for upto 4 years...and costs.
Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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With a aero eng degree at least the technical ATPL exams will be a breeze! Plus it gives you a broad view of aviation and alternatives if you have to take a desk job (eg: loss of medical) later on.
That said - a type rating with >500 hrs on type experience and an unfrozen ATPL is more relevant to airlines!
That said - a type rating with >500 hrs on type experience and an unfrozen ATPL is more relevant to airlines!
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Re: Degree Relevance
In my opinion a degree is obviously not essential to become a commercial pilot, well certainly in Europe anyway. Obviously experience is the key to getting a flight job......indeed a job in any industry. However, there are certain situations where a degree may prove in-valuable,
1. If you are applying for a cadet-pilot sponsorship program then a degree will greatly improve your chances of being selected ahead of someone without a degree as a degree proves that you are mature enough to work on your own, that you have a good ability to learn and that you can focus on something when the pressure is on!
2. Also if you are going for an ab-initio job with an airline, and say you get to the final 3 or 4 people, then if none of you have any type experience a degree will likely seperate you from the rest of the guys and will probably get you the job.
1. If you are applying for a cadet-pilot sponsorship program then a degree will greatly improve your chances of being selected ahead of someone without a degree as a degree proves that you are mature enough to work on your own, that you have a good ability to learn and that you can focus on something when the pressure is on!
2. Also if you are going for an ab-initio job with an airline, and say you get to the final 3 or 4 people, then if none of you have any type experience a degree will likely seperate you from the rest of the guys and will probably get you the job.
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This point is made clear in the threads to which I linked in my earlier post, but it bears repeating: do not take an Aeronautical Engineering degree because you think it might help you become a pilot. It won't.
Take AE because it's a subject you love and want to know more about. If there is any doubt about this, don't take it - choose something you are intrerested in. No employer (airline or otherwise) is interested in a course you failed because you couldn't maintain the motivation. AE is one of the most difficult and intense courses available to an undergraduate; it deserves to be taken seriously. It may be a door-opener for prospective aviation engineers (well, it ought to be!), but it most certainly isn't for pilots. Take a degree in Advanced Crochet and Underwater Basket-Weaving if it really interests you; it is just as valuable in the pilot job search.
Scroggs
Take AE because it's a subject you love and want to know more about. If there is any doubt about this, don't take it - choose something you are intrerested in. No employer (airline or otherwise) is interested in a course you failed because you couldn't maintain the motivation. AE is one of the most difficult and intense courses available to an undergraduate; it deserves to be taken seriously. It may be a door-opener for prospective aviation engineers (well, it ought to be!), but it most certainly isn't for pilots. Take a degree in Advanced Crochet and Underwater Basket-Weaving if it really interests you; it is just as valuable in the pilot job search.
Scroggs
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Aero Eng,
A degree probably wont help you get a pilot job directly but it does say a lot about your character, commitment and ability to study for a higher education. In the subconcious mind of a recruiter, it is never going to make you look bad.
I have a BSc and decided to do it before I started flying! There were two reasons for this.
1. If I lost my pilot medical it gave me something better than stacking supermarket shelves to fall back on!
2. I thought it would help me get a pilot job. It definately has!!!!!!!!
By this I mean, all the study skills learnt help me breeze thorugh two sets of ATPLs (30+ ICAO and JAA exams) with about a 90% AVG. Those that dont have one (a degree) cant really comment in my opinion but the life experience you gain from it can not be gained anywhere else. Scroggs is right about the content and about failing the degree which looks really bad but I say that a Degree (of substance) is definately going to help you. It helped me for sure and I dont regret it one bit!
Besides, if you are young, 3 years of your life is nothing and if you fly during your UNI years, do the ATPLS on the side (which is totally feasable if you are dedicated), you should come out with a Degree and FATPL in only a couple of years more than it would have taken you for you FATPL.
Aim high and you will achieve high, its definately worth it in my book, and has helped me a lot. Good luck and GO FOR IT!
A degree probably wont help you get a pilot job directly but it does say a lot about your character, commitment and ability to study for a higher education. In the subconcious mind of a recruiter, it is never going to make you look bad.
I have a BSc and decided to do it before I started flying! There were two reasons for this.
1. If I lost my pilot medical it gave me something better than stacking supermarket shelves to fall back on!
2. I thought it would help me get a pilot job. It definately has!!!!!!!!
By this I mean, all the study skills learnt help me breeze thorugh two sets of ATPLs (30+ ICAO and JAA exams) with about a 90% AVG. Those that dont have one (a degree) cant really comment in my opinion but the life experience you gain from it can not be gained anywhere else. Scroggs is right about the content and about failing the degree which looks really bad but I say that a Degree (of substance) is definately going to help you. It helped me for sure and I dont regret it one bit!
Besides, if you are young, 3 years of your life is nothing and if you fly during your UNI years, do the ATPLS on the side (which is totally feasable if you are dedicated), you should come out with a Degree and FATPL in only a couple of years more than it would have taken you for you FATPL.
Aim high and you will achieve high, its definately worth it in my book, and has helped me a lot. Good luck and GO FOR IT!
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Many companies, such as Air Europa in Spain are changing their recruitment process and last year published that they will only hired low houred pilots if they have a degree starting 2010, and I know Iberia and Spanair are going to go the same route in the near future. Seems europe wil end up like the US with pilot recruitment......who knows.
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On speed on profile I have a couple of comments on your post:
While this has some truth in it, a degree (particularly in a science or engineering subject) has a shelf life which is not indefinite. The point at which your degree loses its value as anything more than proof that you can study is moot, and depends on the pace of change in your chosen field, but it definitely exists. If you want your degree to maintain its value as a professional qualification as a fall-back, you must keep your knowledge up to date. That can be expensive!
It's difficult to really justify a science or engineering degree by saying it'll make your ATPL studies easier! The level of physics and maths required for the ATPL is pretty basic, and plenty of historians, philosophers and language graduates (and, indeed, non-graduates) have coped perfectly well. Any degree may help your employment prospects, as long as you've obtained a good result and you've made the most of your time and opportunities at university. A basic pass and a huge debt incurred in the union bar will not be evidence of three or four years well spent, and it does tend to come out at interview - remember, I am a qualified (RAF) interviewer with many years' experience!
By all means go and do a degree. Make the best of your opportunities at university. Enjoy yourself, and enjoy your learning. Anything less is a waste of your time.
Scroggs
1. If I lost my pilot medical it gave me something better than stacking supermarket shelves to fall back on!
2. I thought it would help me get a pilot job. It definately has!!!!!!!!
By this I mean, all the study skills learnt help me breeze thorugh two sets of ATPLs (30+ ICAO and JAA exams) with about a 90% AVG. Those that dont have one (a degree) cant really comment in my opinion but the life experience you gain from it can not be gained anywhere else. Scroggs is right about the content and about failing the degree which looks really bad but I say that a Degree (of substance) is definately going to help you. It helped me for sure and I dont regret it one bit!
By this I mean, all the study skills learnt help me breeze thorugh two sets of ATPLs (30+ ICAO and JAA exams) with about a 90% AVG. Those that dont have one (a degree) cant really comment in my opinion but the life experience you gain from it can not be gained anywhere else. Scroggs is right about the content and about failing the degree which looks really bad but I say that a Degree (of substance) is definately going to help you. It helped me for sure and I dont regret it one bit!
By all means go and do a degree. Make the best of your opportunities at university. Enjoy yourself, and enjoy your learning. Anything less is a waste of your time.
Scroggs
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Having got a degree - training or job?
Hi there, this is my very first post, so please don't shoot me down just yet!
It is very interesting to read all the threads on whether having a degree is necessary/important/worthwhile/useful in getting into this industry. Along with many, many others here, I have always had the dream of being an airline pilot. After my A-Levels, 4 yrs ago, I had the dilemma - Uni or flying? With the lack of sponsorships offered by airlines, I came to the decision to go to University mainly due to the reason that it would give me a back-up, and that I was fortunate enough to be able to get into a reasonably good Uni. It was very difficult to refuse the temptation of starting training then, but the horrible thought of a 60k loan and the fact that a degree would hopefully be a back-up meant University was, for me, the sensible option.
At the time I chose Physics to study as it was in fact the subject that I enjoyed most. Hopefully it could be somewhat helpful when it comes to flying too but that wasn't the reason that I chose Physics. I'm now coming to the end of my degree in June having had a great time and would dearly love to start to train for my ATPL. However, since sponsorships etc are clearly not on the cards still (in the near future at least), I am faced with a similar dilemma - loan+training or job?
I was wondering if there are any people out there who are/have been in the same position as what I am in now, and what thoughts you have? Loan+training or job?
Having a degree appears to be have limited benefits when it comes to applying to schemes as it is not a requisite and certainly if you are self-funding a course it is not necessary at all. But I can't help but think that having a Physics degree could enable me to get a job that would enable me to save the 60k in less time than if I didn't have it.
Do you think it is wise to go and earn (and save) some cash and experience, then go for it once the cash has been raised? Or to bite the bullet now while I am still young?
The issue of age also comes into play if I was to go for the job option. I am 22 and just finishing Uni, so by the time I've earnt enough cash to pay for a 60k course I'll be close to 30 (depending on job and how efficient I am at saving cash obviously). This could be a disadvantage of going for the job option.
On the other hand, saving 60k by working for ~10 years is perhaps financially safer than getting a 60k loan and paying back 60k+5%APR for 12-15 yrs after training.
If anyone is/has been in a similar situation and could share their thoughts/experience, that would be a great help.
Many thanks,
RP
It is very interesting to read all the threads on whether having a degree is necessary/important/worthwhile/useful in getting into this industry. Along with many, many others here, I have always had the dream of being an airline pilot. After my A-Levels, 4 yrs ago, I had the dilemma - Uni or flying? With the lack of sponsorships offered by airlines, I came to the decision to go to University mainly due to the reason that it would give me a back-up, and that I was fortunate enough to be able to get into a reasonably good Uni. It was very difficult to refuse the temptation of starting training then, but the horrible thought of a 60k loan and the fact that a degree would hopefully be a back-up meant University was, for me, the sensible option.
At the time I chose Physics to study as it was in fact the subject that I enjoyed most. Hopefully it could be somewhat helpful when it comes to flying too but that wasn't the reason that I chose Physics. I'm now coming to the end of my degree in June having had a great time and would dearly love to start to train for my ATPL. However, since sponsorships etc are clearly not on the cards still (in the near future at least), I am faced with a similar dilemma - loan+training or job?
I was wondering if there are any people out there who are/have been in the same position as what I am in now, and what thoughts you have? Loan+training or job?
Having a degree appears to be have limited benefits when it comes to applying to schemes as it is not a requisite and certainly if you are self-funding a course it is not necessary at all. But I can't help but think that having a Physics degree could enable me to get a job that would enable me to save the 60k in less time than if I didn't have it.
Do you think it is wise to go and earn (and save) some cash and experience, then go for it once the cash has been raised? Or to bite the bullet now while I am still young?
The issue of age also comes into play if I was to go for the job option. I am 22 and just finishing Uni, so by the time I've earnt enough cash to pay for a 60k course I'll be close to 30 (depending on job and how efficient I am at saving cash obviously). This could be a disadvantage of going for the job option.
On the other hand, saving 60k by working for ~10 years is perhaps financially safer than getting a 60k loan and paying back 60k+5%APR for 12-15 yrs after training.
If anyone is/has been in a similar situation and could share their thoughts/experience, that would be a great help.
Many thanks,
RP
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I'm in a similar situation.
Graduated in Physics and Space Science from uni about 18 months ago. Have been 'paying as I go' towards the PPL - hopefully will have that finished over the next few months. After that I'll apply to every sponsorship/pseud-sponsorship out there (as you say, a smallish list). Then I'll play it from there - if no sponosrhip is forthcoming I'll look at the best self-sponsored route for me...
You're technical degree certainly won't hinder you - good luck!
V1R
Graduated in Physics and Space Science from uni about 18 months ago. Have been 'paying as I go' towards the PPL - hopefully will have that finished over the next few months. After that I'll apply to every sponsorship/pseud-sponsorship out there (as you say, a smallish list). Then I'll play it from there - if no sponosrhip is forthcoming I'll look at the best self-sponsored route for me...
You're technical degree certainly won't hinder you - good luck!
V1R
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A degree isn't important but it wouldn't hurt to have one if you go thru the natural progression and have it completed in your early 20's. If you're more mature then it's not worth it.