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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

eckhard 28th Dec 2016 20:48

I say KEST, a bit harsh don't you think?

I for one feel it would do us all good to FORGIVE her for her undoubted transgressions. Maybe she will then feel more encouraged to 'fess up?

If any legal proceedings are warranted then have at it; but whom amongst us is entirely innocent of any exaggerations, or of basking in any non-deserved limelight?

I agree that awards made under false assumptions should be withdrawn but she hasn't killed anyone.

Happy New Year!

BillieBob 28th Dec 2016 21:45

Forgiveness requires confession and repentance, neither of which is apparent in this case.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 29th Dec 2016 02:00

I for one don't wish TCT any ill-will at all, nothing personal but a wish to see the record set straight and any undeserved awards rescinded, refused or returned. I hope TCT has a great New Year and uses it to make a fresh start and actually do some outreach and not just hobnobbing for her own gain.

Portsmouth Uni have been shown as trying to fudge the issue, the letter from the VC saying the award was for 13,000 mile solo flight and not, as has more recently been claimed, for outreach/role-model blah blah blah.

HCAP took a different tack and amended the citations; it is shame a FOI request cannot be applied to them too just to see EXACTLY what was said about her and the justification for the Master's Medal.

As for NY honours list.
Bear in mind that it is only a strong rumour that TCT has been put up for an award... but any award proposed and any citation raised would make no mention of solo flight. It will have been rewritten as many times as her wiki page to ensure it is strong enough to pass muster but vague enough to avoid detailed scrutiny. Personally I would like to think that the chance of an award is zero simply because I would expect those that have the power to grant these awards have the common sense and imagination to see the potential for massive future embarrassment.

If the Honours and Appointments Secretariat have done their job then the controversy surrounding TCT will have been seen, discussed, and judged. This, in my opinion, should leave them with three potential options:

a) Give an award.
b) Postpone the award.
c) Not issue any award.

Given the aforementioned controversy then the first option would certainly be foolhardy and therefore unlikely. The honours system is already under scrutiny for how it has been conducted in the past and I cannot see anyone wanting this situation to attract even more high-profile negativity.

The second option does give all sides a chance to put forward facts and produce verifiable evidence. Although we have done this many times, TCT has yet to do so; even answering those simple questions often repeated in this thread would be a start. Plus, I have it on good authority that a proposed Queen's Birthday award had been "put on the back burner" for these reasons. Given that since that occasion no supporting evidence has come from the BiaB/TCT camp but plenty more deception and back-pedalling has been brought to light, then I would think this too is unlikely.

This just leaves the third option as the easy way out. It guarantees no future (honours) embarrassment based upon the weak claims and lies that have come from TCT herself. It also leaves the way open for her to be justifiably rewarded if she does go on to bigger and better things.

The ragged green woolly jumper with BiaB and the Spirit of Artifice emblazoned across it is beginning to look like it has been dragged around the world behind the Stearman. It, like this saga, is unravelling with appreciable pace and there are still plenty more loose threads to be pulled. Any one of these could result in the "so much egg on so many faces" scenario hinted at earlier in this thread.

I'll leave you with this mental image; if TCT wants to avoid a facial omelette, she needs to tell the truth. :eek:

and on that note...

I wish you all a great 2017 :ok:

Jonzarno 29th Dec 2016 07:42


A happy New Year to one and all, except Tracey who should roast in hades for all her untruths and exaggeration.
Sorry, G-Kest, but that goes too far for me: I agree with Eckhard on this.

Ms Curtis Taylor continues to drag her name through the mud by trying to ignore the justified criticism arising from her failure to address the criticism of her apparent exaggeration of her "achievements ". But, as far as I know, that's ALL she has done. She hasn't hurt or killed anyone nor committed a criminal offence.

She deserves every bit of the opprobrium she continues to receive for what she has done; but that is ALL she deserves. No more, no less.

I hope she has a great 2017, starting with the realisation that a resolution to tell the truth is the quickest and easiest way of putting this mess behind her and moving on. I think she would be surprised at how positively such a step might be received by most of those criticising her now.

Sam Rutherford 29th Dec 2016 08:19

I posted some considerable time ago (months, if not years) that a simple and full apology would make the whole thing to away, and the dinner speaking engagements return.

Something along the lines of: "I'm really sorry, I got carried away with it all and made claims that I shouldn't have made. I just hope that the positive aspects of my journeys continue to help young people into aviation..".

I think that would kill the criticism, and this thread, dead. Even now.

Safe flights in 2017! Sam.

Clare Prop 29th Dec 2016 12:39

I can't see anything positive about it though Sam, quite apart from the claims of doing this solo she has belittled some true pioneers and those who have earned RAF wings, calling herself a "bird" (What century is she living in?) who "needs a drink" and happily admits to breaking rules, a condescending attitude towards African ATC, the list goes on and on; if there had been people in that helicopter she taxiid into they would have been killed; this hardly makes her a role model.

She was someone who made a TV reality show and her reality was that we "brave" little women can't manage without a massive team of men to back her up. Most of us women pilots don't want to be told "you've done so well, for a girl" we are just getting on with it, in my case training the next generation, men and women, makes no difference. What makes a difference is things like scholarships (I wouldn't have been able to get where I am without one) something to go towards the harsh reality of paying for flying training. How many scholarships could all that money have paid for? Outreach my :mad:

Some research would have been nice, I saw a vid of her giving a talk, saying people like Amy were "breaking records" no, they were the first and there was some very substantial prize money, but they had to finish the flight before they got the prize. Big difference from having corporate sponsors.

In July Fedor Konyukhov broke the record for fastest circumnavigation in a balloon, SOLO. In August 18-year-old Lachlan Smart became the youngest person to fly around the world SOLO. Paraplegic Dave Sykes flew a microlight SOLO from England to Australia. These are the achievers who deserve recognition.

Sorry mods for not coming up with anything new. This has been really annoying me for a long time. :*

Sam Rutherford 29th Dec 2016 12:47

Whilst I agree with the overwhelming negatives, it is not that there have been ZERO positives. For right or wrong, I am sure that there are some kids out there who are now considering aviation as a career who beforehand were not.

Best to agree to disagree on this though - certainly not worth more discussion! :-)

Danny42C 29th Dec 2016 13:04

Sam Rutherford,

I am in complete agreement with your #3121. This would clear the air and enable us to make a fresh start. I might also add that it is very generous of you (having regard to your Posts: p.3, #46 and p.116 #2310 on this Thread).

I have listened to Miss Curtis-Taylors presentations, and there is no doubt that she is a charming, fluent and engaging speaker who would captivate any audience. A pleasure to listen to ! Being of Irish descent, I would say: "She has the Gift of the Gab".

If only we could get hold of the real, true story - I'm sure that that there would be plenty of amusing en-route episodes to make us chuckle - say, "What happened the night when my luggage did not reach the hotel in time ?"

As things stand, most PPRuNers (who know more than a little about aviation) are satisfied on the sorry facts of the case, and are quietly waiting for the whole house of cards to collapse. Then (as has been said): "So much egg ! - So many faces !"

Which ever way the cat jumps, we are in her debt for 3,000 + Posts (and half-a-million + 'hits') to entertain us in a quiet time.

Danny42C.

G-KEST 29th Dec 2016 17:34

Sam and Danny42C,
I agree wholeheartedly with your remarks. I can only hope that Tracey and her PR machine will read them also and act on them in 2017. But I am not holding my breath for that to happen; as I have become, over the last 78 years, accustomed to the practise.
Have a great New Year.

thunderbird7 29th Dec 2016 19:27

Absolutely spot on. No need to destroy someone for the sake of it. Some humility would go a long way.

9 lives 29th Dec 2016 19:43

I too don't want to see TCT drawn and quartered over this, but rather an acknowledgement of the concerns raised, and a change in behavior.

Peripherally, I would hope that HCAP, and the Portsmouth University take solid notice of the concerns raised, and the level of interest in honour among pilots with the way awards are issued. Certainly other institutions must be getting the message load and clear!

Chris Martyr 30th Dec 2016 15:02

Well , I definitely agree with Barry Tempest's sentiments regarding Ms Curtis-Taylor's fortunes for 2017.
Should she wish to clean up her act for 2017 by acknowledging such commodities as common decency , the truth and maybe just a little recognition of others in aviation who have achieved what they have through hard work and very little back-up then maybe a little respect for her could be afforded.
But until such time that she does this AND can find the time to 'lower' herself into answering the questions put by JZ , SWB and Mr J-S,,,,,,,then I will happily act as Barry's Seconder on this as well .
Happy New Year and a massive "Well Done" to all on here for such a great input.
Will Tracey make 2017 as hard going for herself as she made 2016 ?
Only one person can influence that !

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 30th Dec 2016 21:42

I guess we can all relax. The NY Honours list is out and our friend TCT is not on it. It does appear that someone on high is listening (watching) to the developments.

Nice to see some old friends get justified rewards though :ok:

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-full-list.pdf

Jonzarno 31st Dec 2016 08:25


The NY Honours list is out and our friend TCT is not on it.
Although there was a fair bit of speculation here that she might get an award, was there ever any serious indication that she might be on the list? I always thought that the decision process is conducted in strict confidence and that potential recipients are contacted a few days ahead of publication in case they want to decline the award; and are warned that if they tell anyone, the offer will be withdrawn.

terry holloway 31st Dec 2016 09:03


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 9625451)
Although there was a fair bit of speculation here that she might get an award, was there ever any serious indication that she might be on the list? I always thought that the decision process is conducted in strict confidence and that potential recipients are contacted a few days ahead of publication in case they want to decline the award; and are warned that if they tell anyone, the offer will be withdrawn.

Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published, other than to the recipient who is asked to confirm that they will accept the award. That letter also tells them to "keep quiet" bout the award until the list is made public. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Jonzarno 31st Dec 2016 09:26


Originally Posted by terry holloway (Post 9625489)
Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Well speaking of question marks, Ms Curtis-Taylor has still chosen not to answer the three simple and specific questions I asked several weeks ago, all of which are based on DOCUMENTED fact:


1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she PERSONALLY makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings? There are several pictures of her wearing them in this thread as well.

As the old saying goes: "What can not speak can not lie".

Some time ago, you confirmed that you had passed these questions on to Ms Curtis-Taylor. So far the silence has been deafening.

terry holloway 31st Dec 2016 13:04


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 9625508)
Well speaking of question marks, Ms Curtis-Taylor has still chosen not to answer the three simple and specific questions I asked several weeks ago, all of which are based on DOCUMENTED fact:


1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she PERSONALLY makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings? There are several pictures of her wearing them in this thread as well.

As the old saying goes: "What can not speak can not lie".

Some time ago, you confirmed that you had passed these questions on to Ms Curtis-Taylor. So far the silence has been deafening.

I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until the spring next year.

9 lives 31st Dec 2016 13:13


I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until the spring next year.
Thank you Terry, for providing the communication on behalf of interested PPRuNers. A reply from TCT would be welcomed even before she returns to the UK, believing that wherever she is, she has access to communication. Why put it off?

Jonzarno 31st Dec 2016 13:58


Originally Posted by Step Turn (Post 9625714)
Thank you Terry, for providing the communication on behalf of interested PPRuNers. A reply from TCT would be welcomed even before she returns to the UK, believing that wherever she is, she has access to communication. Why put it off?

I would second that. For what my opinion is worth (probably what you are paying for it.... :p) she would do herself a lot of good by having the courage to answer honestly and thus "lance the boil". I think many of her critics might be impressed were she to do so in the right way.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 31st Dec 2016 16:30


Originally Posted by terry holloway (Post 9625489)
Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published, other than to the recipient who is asked to confirm that they will accept the award. That letter also tells them to "keep quiet" bout the award until the list is made public. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Everything that has been posted to unmask the charade can be backed-up. There is much more known than has been published but that is personal stuff (personal to TCT), I am only interested in the facts relating to undeserved awards.

UK Awards process.
Anyone can nominate someone for an award and the nomination goes to the Cabinet Office. Specifically the Honours and Appointments Secretariat on Horse Guards Road.

Whether someone gets an honour - and the honour they get - is decided by an honours committee who will submit their decision to the PM who then submits it to Her Majesty. The Honours committee will conduct very detailed background checks on the potential recipient to make sure that people who have been nominated for honours have not behaved in a way that might harm the honours system. The most basic of checks would be to see what is out in the public domain already : GOOGLE "Tracey Curtis-Taylor" and see what they would have seen.

The person making the nomination will receive a swift acknowledgement from the Honours Committee but it may be 12-18 months before any further action surfaces. Recipients are made aware of the award well in advance but are asked to keep it to themselves. During this long "dormant" period it is not unusual for the odd pending award coming to light.


We are happy to answer any questions from TCT and we can show factual sources to support what we have posted. TCT can take some time to answer the questions highlighted below. That she is not in the UK is not a valid reason for ignoring them...



-What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo" (Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim) and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

-Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her published earlier in this thread standing in front of a huge picture claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

-By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?

*******
In addition I would like answers to the following

- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?




As for folk on the NY list that I know...work it out. Ex RAF, worked at several fast-jet and training establishments. One mate flies around in a bright red jet, the other was in almost all recruiting posters of the 90's - and not for his piloting skills. (Although he was, and still is, a highly skilled operator).


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