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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 16th Dec 2016 23:57


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 9611715)
Is there any news from the Portsmouth University F.O.I. request?

I have had nothing back yet but this afternoon I e-mailed them a polite reminder with this:

Just a polite reminder that the Freedom of Information request I submitted on 24 November 2016 has not yet been answered.

Authorities should regard the 20 working day limit as a ‘long stop’, in other words the latest possible date on which they may issue a response.
It also follows that an authority which provides its response close to, or on, the final day of the 20 working day limit ought to be able to both account for, and justify, the length of time taken to comply with the request.

Kind regards


Sam Rutherford 17th Dec 2016 06:23

Is it perhaps not time to let this thread go cool/cold unless there is actually any new information?

Just a thought...

Cheers, Sam.

Midlifec 17th Dec 2016 12:35


Originally Posted by airpolice (Post 9612367)
SWB, did they ever acknowledge receipt of your request?

Might they be playing for time, and hoping to claim the 20 days has not yet started?

Have they not now perhaps shut up shop for xmas...

terry holloway 17th Dec 2016 22:59


Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford (Post 9612103)
Is it perhaps not time to let this thread go cool/cold unless there is actually any new information?

Just a thought...

Cheers, Sam.

Well said Sam!

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 18th Dec 2016 14:28


Originally Posted by airpolice (Post 9612367)
SWB, did they ever acknowledge receipt of your request?

Might they be playing for time, and hoping to claim the 20 days has not yet started?

They acknowledged the FOI request with this:


Dear xxxxxxx

I refer to the email that you sent to the University's Press Office today, making a Freedom of Information Act request. Your request has been forwarded to me to handle.

As you have correctly mentioned in your email, the University has 20 working days in which to respond to your request and therefore you will receive a further reply by 22 December 2016 at the latest, although if it is possible to respond before then, we will do so. Should you need to contact me before then however, please feel free to do so either by replying to this email or by telephoning me directly on 02392 nnnnnn.

Yours sincerely


S....... H...
Information Disclosure and Complaints Manager
University of Portsmouth

They are fully aware of the 22 Dec end-date and it would be rather embarrassing for them if such a simple request resulted in a breach of the FOI Act. Not a lot can be done if they do run late but deliberately withholding material information or changing information that is held is a criminal offence.

Right Hand Thread 18th Dec 2016 23:08

After only a light skim of the quote in airpolice's post.


Tracey was also shadowed by a small support crew comprising a pilot and cameraman, who travelled behind her in a light modern aircraft, to record the epic flight across three continents.
I think at times it was the other way round.



Later Tracey returned to the UK and became a commercial pilot and a flying instructor.
I don't think she holds a UK CPL or Instructor Rating. They were from New Zealand.




the first female pilot to be based at the historic Shuttleworth Collection, at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire.
My understanding, and I'm willing to be corrected, is that she 'only' had an aircraft based there. Rented hangarage if you will. Surely a female pilot must have done so there before the the end of the 20th century?

G-KEST 18th Dec 2016 23:47

Much as I completely agree with Sam and Terry on this matter.
My instinctive reaction to elements of the post by Air Police was utter astonishment - it read
"But her real passion was for vintage aircraft and warbirds. In 1997 she helped organise Duxford’s Flying Legends air shows and later became the first female pilot to be based at the historic Shuttleworth Collection, at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire".

I understand from high level sources at both Duxford and Old Warden that her efforts at those aerodromes did not meet the required standard and she was invited to leave which is shorthand for being chucked out. She rented hangar space at Old Warden but was never a 'Shuttleworth' pilot; I believe Clare Tector is the only female pilot ever to have been one.

"Today she lives in Cambridge, UK, working predominantly with historic aviation and air show organisation."

I know not and care not where she lives. But I am not aware that she has any involvement in UK historic aviation or airshow organisation here in the UK.

9 lives 19th Dec 2016 00:24


My instinctive reaction to elements of the post by Air Police was utter astonishment
It is these multiple and important misrepresentations, and the seeming zero effort to be accountable for correction/retraction which leave me feeling that the topic should not just fade away. I have believe that TCT is well aware of the concerns raised in these pages, and yet nothing in terms of correcting all of the wrongs.

Though I do not see this as a "legal" matter, I do see it as an offense against aviation peers. As a member of the aviation community in the larger sense, I don't feel that it's right, or fair to we peers that TCT could simply remain silent, accept accolades and speaking engagements as though nothing is wrong, and just let it all blow over by ignoring it.

If TCT were a quiet private citizen, and something were "off" about her aviation exploits, that would be one thing, but TCT has eagerly stepped into the public spot light many times, and represented us. In doing so, she has to be held to a high standard. The public simply does not know any better, but we, her peers do. In my opinion, it is our responsibility to the less familiar public to take action to maintain truth and honour in aviation, rather than just let wrongs fade into the shadows because the accused will not answer the multiple expressions of concern.

brakedwell 19th Dec 2016 20:04

That ia a very clever way to slither out of the mess as it implies she was alone in the Stearman when she wasn't. I don't think she will ever admit to her deceit.

SFCC 19th Dec 2016 21:23

I'm a bit bored with all this mess now.
She told a few mis-truths, insinuated lots and got well and truly rumbled soon afterwards.
Her name is now mud and will forever be so.
My life is hugely too short to get carried away on a witch hunt.

She is a Walt par excellence, undoubtably.
Can we just leave it at that now please?


Oh, and we all know very well that she isn't part of Shuttleworth, or indeed anything at all in the big wheels of the UK airshow industry.....

An end now please, or have you lot not finished stirring?

Jonzarno 19th Dec 2016 22:10

I disagree, for two reasons:

Firstly, we should continue to push for clear answers to the questions that Ms Curtis-Taylor continues to refuse to answer.

Secondly, and just as important, we should continue to shine a bright light on the institutions such as HCAP, Portsmouth University and others that continue to try to defend their actions in honouring somebody who seems unwilling to answer those questions thus indicating that the awards that they have given her may have been based on false premises.

With respect: if you are bored with this, can I suggest that you just stop reading the thread?

hobbit1983 19th Dec 2016 23:17


Originally Posted by Jonzarno (Post 9614703)
With respect: if you are bored with this, can I suggest that you just stop reading the thread?

I can highly recommend this, I did.

Hang on a minute... Dammit.

Stuart Sutcliffe 20th Dec 2016 07:14

Right Hand Thread:

I don't think she holds a UK CPL or Instructor Rating. They were from New Zealand.
As of early November 2016,the opening line of TC-T's Wikipedia page used to include this statement:
"Tracey Curtis-Taylor (born 1962) is a British aviator who has worked as a commercial pilot and flying instructor in New Zealand."
As others on this thread have pointed out, ever since this controversy began, that Wikipedia page has been constantly and regularly edited by people very sympathetic to TC-T. The quote above has now disappeared entirely - why? Probably because it is not entirely truthful.

Contrarily, in this interview with JetGala magazine TC-T boldly states:
"I love the early planes. Itís completely romantic and whimsical but thatís my approach to flying. It became a hobby. Iím not interested in modern procedural flying. Iíve never been a professional flyer. Iím just an enthusiastic aviator."
I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer? I suppose there is an outside chance that she perhaps did the exams necessary for the issue of a CPL, maybe even passed the appropriate flying tests for a CPL, but was never hired by any commercial outfit. However, given TC-T's apparent track record on claims about her flights, I think there is plenty of doubt about her supposed commercial qualifications. We only have her say-so on it, but if anyone can prove otherwise, this forum would be grateful to see the evidence. But I don't think anyone is holding their breath. After all, all TC-T's biographical details, be they on gushingly-worded award certificates or scattered around the internet, seem to have been cut and pasted from the same, single source - TC-T herself.

terry holloway:

I understand the pride in RAF wings only too well. One doesn't serve for 34 years without "getting it"!
Sadly, despite your years in the RAF and affinity for aviation, I don't think that you really "get" anything about this sad saga, be it the deceit or anything else.

terry holloway:

I give up in trying to argue ......!
Well, your position to stand on shaky ground almost certainly accounts for your frustration, but it is self-inflicted. You might like to think that the majority here will also give up, but I very much doubt they will, because the facts are clear and plentiful. Perhaps you prefer to take comfort in the immortal words uttered by Steven Fry's character, General Melchett, in the final Blackadder TV series:
"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
Good luck with that, Melchie! :ok:

27/09 20th Dec 2016 09:49


I think there is plenty of doubt about her supposed commercial qualifications.
So far as I'm aware there is no doubt about her having held a New Zealand CPL and Instructor Rating. I think you'll find evidence of her having held these qualifications in early posts on this thread.

One person who has posted on this thread does know.

I am pretty sure she did work at an Ardmore based flight training establishment for a short period of time. How long for and how much work she did is another question. There may be info on this in early posts in the thread, I don't remember and cannot be bothered looking.


I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer?
I agree, and find this assertion very difficult to fathom.

Stuart Sutcliffe 20th Dec 2016 14:31


So far as I'm aware there is no doubt about her having held a New Zealand CPL and Instructor Rating. I think you'll find evidence of her having held these qualifications in early posts on this thread.
I'll admit to not having seen the early pages of this thread for several weeks, so apologies if I have that wrong.

But ...... why then excise it from your record? Or is the constant Wikipedia biographical editing evidence of a 'PR team' frantically attempting a damage-limitation exercise, with correct detail also falling victim to a very broad axe swung in panic? :suspect:

piperboy84 20th Dec 2016 15:06


I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer?
Don't know about that, I've got a CPL and never ever considered flying for reward. In FAA land the CPL is not a big deal, its really just a glorified PPL check ride with a few chandels and lazy 8's thrown in. The Instrument and Instructor tickets on the other hand require a bit effort.

The only time I trumpet the Commercial Pilot thingy is in the pub and usually around birds who are thinking Boeing while I know all along its C172.:)

Mike Flynn 21st Dec 2016 06:08

I see her current wiki entry omits all mention of the LAA.


In October 2015, she was appointed an Honorary Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve.[30] In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree.[33] Also in 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[34]


SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 22nd Dec 2016 22:33

3 Attachment(s)
For those who have followed this saga from the start, what follows will be of no surprise.

You may recall that I e-mailed Portsmouth Uni regarding the honorary award to TCT. Their response was one of denial that it was for aviation exploits and a polite FO and stop bothering us reply.


Dear ######,

Apologies for the delay coming back to you.
We are sorry that you feel disappointed the University has awarded an honorary degree to Tracey Curtis-Taylor. However, we did not make this award to her on the basis that she had completed solo flights or explicitly because of her activities within aviation. The award was primarily due to her longstanding commitment to outreach activities that support good causes such as services charities, education and young people.
Best wishes,
########

and
Dear ######
As we have already stated, the University made this award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor not only on the basis of her flights and other activities within aviation, but also based on her enduring commitment to activities in support of outreach and education, her work with charities and with young people, which we accede. While we appreciate you have strong views about whether she is a suitable role-model, they are your own. We have no further comment to make on this subject.

Kind regards
#### (###### is on leave this week)

I have now had a response to my FOI request. The University have failed to meet the requirements of the request but have been open in what they responded with. The most damning piece is the letter from the Vice Chancellor. See attached document "190 Annex B Invitation Letter pdf".

Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."

So, there you have it, in their own words, signed-off by the VC, an award for SOLO flights. No mention at all of any outreach, role model, STEM encouragement. I conclude that the award, like the Bill Woodham Trophy, was issued on a lie and should therefore be removed.

Have a read of the attached and you can see that the information supplied to Portsmouth has come from Tim Kelly / TCT.

Thoughts please Ladies and Gentlemen.

Mike Flynn 22nd Dec 2016 23:06

Many thanks for your efforts Satco which has revealed the part Tim Kelly has played in this saga. An award for a solo flight that never happened and from the Engineering School.

This from the Vice Chancellor

Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."
Below is the letter awarding her the honourary degree. Why was Tim Kelly copied in?
https://s28.postimg.org/g8tg8w1cd/image.png

brakedwell 22nd Dec 2016 23:21

Thoughts please Ladies and Gentlemen - That damn word solo keeps appearing and she has had ample time to correct it, but didn't. To add insult to injury Portsmouth University has let itself down and the Vice Chancellor should be ashamed of himself.


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