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Ah thanks, I misunderstood! Obviously a triumph of hope over experience on my part! :)
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It is not a brooch. It is an official RAF pilot's brevet as designed to be worn by a qualified RAF pilot on his/her No.5 mess kit jacket.
I was awarded my wings in 1962 after two years of bloody hard work and I wore them proudly on my various RAF uniforms until I left the RAF in 1979. I never wore them again but wore other employers' wings as appropriate for the next 26 years. I really object to seeing someone wearing RAF wings when they are not entitled. I simply cannot understand how you can refer to them as a brooch. You have let yourself down badly in my estimation. |
Terry,
If you "do not remotely think she was remotely attempting to impersonate an RAF pilot", why do you think she was wearing RAF pilot's wings? |
If she sought to impersonate an RAF pilot, she would have worn the proper full size wings, and not an insignia (set of mess kit wings which would never have been worn on a flying suit), that was over 60 years old!
I give up in trying to argue ......! Like others I cannot and will accept impersonation by people in uniform, but in terms of the wings I do not accept that she was attempting to decieve. Why would she need or want to? We could start a new thread elsewhere about drone controllers sitting in a poracsbin wearing a flying suit adorned by "RAF issued drone pilot wings" which look like the real thing, notwithstanding that they have never flown an aeroplane. One needs to be very sharp eyed to tell the difference!
Originally Posted by JW411
(Post 9605063)
It is not a brooch. It is an official RAF pilot's brevet as designed to be worn by a qualified RAF pilot on his/her No.5 mess kit jacket.
I was awarded my wings in 1962 after two years of bloody hard work and I wore them proudly on my various RAF uniforms until I left the RAF in 1979. I never wore them again but wore other employers' wings as appropriate for the next 26 years. I really object to seeing someone wearing RAF wings when they are not entitled. I simply cannot understand how you can refer to them as a brooch. You have let yourself down badly in my estimation. |
Originally Posted by terry holloway
(Post 9605097)
If she sought to impersonate an RAF pilot, she would have worn the proper full size wings, and not an insignia (set of mess kit wings which would never have been worn on a flying suit), that was over 60 years old!
I give up in trying to argue ......! Like others I cannot and will accept impersonation by people in uniform, but in terms of the wings I do not accept that she was attempting to decieve. Why would she need or want to? We could start a new thread elsewhere about drone controllers sitting in a poracsbin wearing a flying suit adorned by "RAF issued drone pilot wings" which look like the real thing, notwithstanding that they have never flown an aeroplane. One needs to be very sharp eyed to tell the difference! |
As the thread starter I am now convinced her deception extends far beyond her flights.
Low flying and wearing an RAF brevet are just small components in the whole 'Aviatrix' story I am puzzled why Tracey,who is clearly an articulate and intelligent woman,did not set out to genuinely emulate Mary Heath and Amy Johnson in a DH. She really could have reflected how hard it was sitting a Tiger Moth for hours on end with a limited panel. The broadcast video story would have been a lot more fact than fiction. Perhaps Amanda Harrison could still do it? |
Terry,
I say again, why do you think she was wearing RAF pilot's wings? You posted a reply to my previous one did not not answer my question. |
Originally Posted by terry holloway
(Post 9605049)
I understand the pride in RAF wings only too well. One doesn't serve for 34 years without "getting it"! Also recognise the emotion of pretence, but I do not remotely think she was remotely attempting to impersonate an RAF pilot, and certainly not with that brooch!
What really makes me see red is blatant impersonation of "veterans" either by uniform, insignia or medals. One sees plenty of people doing that in "fancy dress" at Goodwood events and elsewhere, and I really don't think TCT is in that category! You are an RAF "veteran" (many of us here are, too), but not an RAF qualified pilot. You "see red" by non-entitled persons wearing uniform, insignia or medals because you earned the right to wear those, but not the RAF wings, so they don't count. Double standards apply, it seems. BTW, She doesn't wear a "brooch"; it's an RAF flying badge, of the sew - on type. After 34 years you should know that, too. I got in touch with Ms. T C-T via her own website asking about her entitlement to wear the RAF flying badge. The automated reply was almost immediate, saying she would address my question as soon as possible. That was coming up for two months ago. Obviously, it's not an easy question for her to answer. I'm not holding my breath waiting. |
Lomcevak
I think you may have meant "why do you think she was NOT wearing RAF pilot's wings"..... |
In defence of TCT I cannot find any reference where she claimed she was "trained by RAF pilots".
There is a claim which has been much edited In Auckland she earned her private and commercial pilot's licences, and her instructor rating.[4][7] While living in New Zealand, she joined the New Zealand Warbirds and began to fly vintage planes and to learn aerobatics and formation flying.[5] However I reckon her training was very good. I understand this was on a Harvard she flew with ex husband Steve Taylor. Enthusiast gets high on 'aerial Ferrari' thrills | Stuff.co.nz She was born Tracey Curtis but the hyphen name Curtis Taylor comes from her ex husband. Her wiki page reads..... She initially became interested in aviation while visiting air shows on the west coast of Canada with her family;[5] her father in particular had a passion for vintage cars and planes.[6] She had her first flying lesson at the age of 16, in British Columbia. She started to fly more regularly while living in New Zealand in the early 1980s, first in Queenstown and later at Ardmore Aerodrome in Auckland. In Auckland she earned her private and commercial pilot's licences, and her instructor rating.[4][7] While living in New Zealand, she joined the New Zealand Warbirds and began to fly vintage planes and to learn aerobatics and formation flying.[5] Aviation career[edit] In the late 1990s, Curtis-Taylor was involved in the organization of the Flying Legends show at Duxford Aerodrome, England.[7][8] From 2008 until 2013 she took part in fly-bys at Old Warden Aerodrome in Bedfordshire, England,[9] often flying a Ryan PT-22 military trainer. In 2011, she flew in the Flying Legends show at Duxford Aerodrome.[10][11] In December 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a Russian team flying an Antonov An-2 biplane from Kiev to Cape Town, arriving in February 2013. She flew at the Amy Johnson Memorial Air Show at Herne Bay, Kent, England, in 2015[12] as well as the Cowes Regatta in 2013, 2014 and 2015. With her aeroplane, the Boeing-Stearman "Spirit of Artemis", she was on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow. Cape Town to Goodwood flight, 2013[edit] In 2013, Curtis-Taylor flew a Boeing-Stearman biplane in an eight-week journey, covering over 13,000 km, from Cape Town, South Africa to Goodwood Aerodrome, England.[13] The journey comprised a total of 38 legs and 110 basic VFR flying hours,[9] and followed the 1928 flight of Mary, Lady Heath, from Cape Town to Cairo, Egypt,[7][14] travelling over Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda and Sudan. One section of Lady Heath's flight, the leg through Libya, could not be completed due to security issues.[5] The journey took five years to prepare for, including finding a biplane which would cope with the heat of Africa.[5] After a search in several countries, Curtis-Taylor decided to have a 1942 Boeing- Stearman restored.[9] Though much more modern, the biplane was similar to Lady Heath's in size and design, but had advantages such as a more powerful engine, additional fuel tanks,[15] a GPS navigation system, and a transponder for use in controlled airspace.[13] One of the legs of the journey was shared with a retired Royal Air Force Group Captain pilot and historian, Bill Sykes, and sought to locate the site where Lady Heath crash-landed in 1928.[4] She also sourced sponsors for the trip, including Boeing and ExecuJet Aviation Group.[5] The main sponsor was Artemis Investment Management, and the biplane was hence named Spirit of Artemis.[13] In 2014, the Light Aircraft Association awarded Curtis-Taylor the Bill Woodhams Trophy for a "feat of navigation, aviation, tenacity and endurance" on her flight from Cape Town to the United Kingdom.[16][17] In October 2016 members of the association voted to rescind the award.[18] In a written statement, Curtis-Taylor said that the rescission vote was the result of an online media campaign by Sam Rutherford, her former logistics manager who had been withdrawn from participating in the journey, and his associates to discredit her flying achievements.[17][19] In newspaper reports Curtis-Taylor has denied making "false assertions about the nature of my flights"[20] and has stated 'To suggest I have hoodwinked the public, deceived all my sponsors, the media, everyone, is just disgraceful'.[21] Farnborough to Sydney flight, 2015-16[edit] On 1 October 2015 Curtis-Taylor departed from Farnborough, England, flying Spirit of Artemis, arriving in Sydney, Australia on 9 January 2016.[22] The journey was inspired by pioneer aviator Amy Johnson, who flew solo from England to Australia in 1930. The flight path was across 23 countries in 50 legs.[22][23] She was accompanied by a small support crew in a modern plane who documented the journey.[6][24] Several stopovers were scheduled into the flight, often with the aim of introducing Curtis-Taylor to local communities and to inspire others, particularly women.[25] In Dubai, the plane was part of the Boeing display at the Dubai Airshow in the United Arab Emirates,[6] while Curtis-Taylor was a keynote speaker at the International Aviation Women's Association conference.[26] In Pakistan Curtis-Taylor was hosted by Squadron Leader Saira Batool of the Pakistani Air Force,[27] and visited a school in Karachi with Pakistani mountaineer Samina Baig to speak about their adventures and to inspire the children.[28][29] In Singapore, she met with girls and women involved in the UN Women programme Girls2Pioneers, which aims to encourage young women into STEM careers.[25] In October 2015, she was appointed an Honorary Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve.[30] In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree.[33] Also in 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[34] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Curtis-Taylor |
The automated reply was almost immediate, saying she would address my question as soon as possible. That was coming up for two months ago. Obviously, it's not an easy question for her to answer. I'm not holding my breath waiting. In an earlier post I suggested that an unwillingness to address these questions would in itself provide an eloquent answer. We are still waiting. |
In defence of TCT I cannot find any reference where she claimed she was "trained by RAF pilots". |
Mr Torque Sir,
I think that the actual words used were that she was trained by "military pilots". The truth may be that she did her PPL under instructors who were perhaps ex NZ Air Force. It's hardly worth mentioning unless you are in the business of "bigging yourself up". In the same breath, she mentions that the (ex ?) military pilots trained her to fly "warbirds". If by that she means Harvards then again, the truth is being somewhat stretched. See also her (static) "displays" at Farnborough (parked in a corner behind the catering enclosure). Yours aye B Fraser, trained by a (former) RAF display pilot (mate) to fly aeros in a cold war spy plane (aka a Chipmunk). |
I would welcome such an answer from Terry Holloway.
Having first crossed swords with him on the letters page of Pilot magazine I have come to respect his career and bravery to post on this forum. Indeed his input to the Kirk Africa issues deserves serious compliments. Just google Terry and you will see his career is worth admiration. In my humble opinion the TCT Aviatix story will not disappear if the National Geographic TV channel air the upcoming documentary of her Farnborough to Sydney flight. The problem she now faces is part of the reason the sponsors got on board that expedition was a return in positive publicity. If you were sitting in a typical 10.00am global programme production in meeting in London how would you sell the airing of the Aviatrix? Could you admit it was all recorded on a tissue of lies? It was not a solo flight! The low flying claims breached aviation laws in many countries where permits and flight plans were breached? The global press will have a field day revealing the lies exposed on here. |
is this Holloway guy the best that her PR team could find to defend her honour? Terry Holloway is a man deserving of respect; and ad hominem attacks of this kind are, in my view, entirely unjustified. I may disagree with his views on Ms Curtis-Taylor, but I respect his willingness to argue them. I would also point out that he said he would pass on the questions I asked to her, and I have no reason to doubt that he has done so. The decision to ignore them can only be hers. |
I'm sorry but the RAF wings that this lady is falsely sporting on her flying suit are indeed official RAF wings and they are identical to the wings that I wore on my RAF mess kit.
The only difference is that she is wearing RAF wings with the King's Crown and mine are quite correctly with the Queen's Crown (perhaps she picked them up at a car boot sale)? As to your attempted defence of said lady wearing RAF wings when she is not entitled, please re-read where it says in my previous posting: "You have let yourself down badly in my estimation". That means: "You have let yourself down badly in my estimation". I strongly suspect that you are protecting your six o'clock and I can't blame you for that. |
perhaps she picked them up at a car boot sale I would wager that they came from the same source as the Hon Lt Cmdr RN Reserve. Only time, and possibly the tabloids, will tell. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9605160)
I would welcome such an answer from Terry Holloway.
Having first crossed swords with him on the letters page of Pilot magazine I have come to respect his career and bravery to post on this forum. Indeed his input to the Kirk Africa issues deserves serious compliments. Just google Terry and you will see his career is worth admiration. In my humble opinion the TCT Aviatix story will not disappear if the National Geographic TV channel air the upcoming documentary of her Farnborough to Sydney flight. The problem she now faces is part of the reason the sponsors got on board that expedition was a return in positive publicity. If you were sitting in a typical 10.00am global programme production in meeting in London how would you sell the airing of the Aviatrix? Could you admit it was all recorded on a tissue of lies? It was not a solo flight! The low flying claims breached aviation laws in many countries where permits and flight plans were breached? The global press will have a field day revealing the lies exposed on here. My position is clear: 1. I know TCT, but have seen her only once in the last two years. That was when she called in to The Cambridge Aero Club three weeks ago for just 30 mins to see me and our Chief Test Pilot. 2. I've spoken to her on the phone twice in the last two weeks and as requested have passed on the questions. I really don't know, but I guess she is probably reading this threading any event. 3. I am most definitely not her spokesman, and de facto have not been put up to anything by her PR team. ( actually I think that's her but I really don't know!) 4. I happen to think that notwithstanding any emotion by RAF pilots about "their" wings, she was not trying to "pretend" to be an RAF pilot by wearing that badge, and I dare say that if anyone had told her it was wrong she would have removed it. I bet she is not wearing it now! 5. I hope that one day TCT will herself, either here or elsewhere, respond to the questions which I simply cannot answer. 6.I've not heard her talk in public, but someone I respect heard her talking In public fairly recently,( I don't know where or when, and it doesn't really matter to me), and said she spoke very enthusiastically and very well, and that there was no reference to solo flight. As I recall it,that was the issue which Sam Rutherford and Jay Sata highlighted in the first instance, and I seem to think she has apologised for any "misunderstanding" About that, and particularly in the media. I agree, she should have corrected those misleading and inaccurate "solo" reports at the time. |
Terry
Thanks for this: it makes your role in this perfectly clear :ok: I've spoken to her on the phone twice in the last two weeks and as requested have passed on the questions. We can but draw the inevitable conclusion from Ms Curtis-Taylor's silence. |
I endorse Jonzarno's comments and once again I must praise Terry Holloway for his candid and honest posts.
I would expect nothing less of a retired RAF officer. His efforts with Kirk say a lot about him as a man. However Tracey appear to still wants to lie about her endeavours. If I was in her shoes I would delete the whole wiki page. Nothing worth noting there and no history. The entry may come back to haunt her. In December 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a Russian team flying an Antonov An-2 biplane from Kiev to Cape Town, arriving in February 2013. She flew at the Amy Johnson Memorial Air Show at Herne Bay, Kent, England, in 2015[12] as well as the Cowes Regatta in 2013, 2014 and 2015. With her aeroplane, the Boeing-Stearman "Spirit of Artemis", she was on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow. She has no Russian licence and was a passenger. 'Static display? on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow. Static display... Here is my old bird at Cobra Station West Australia 1989. Picked her up at Troy Michigan and had a years fun with no sponsors but an ex wife and two very small kids. https://s28.postimg.org/yh82ampv1/image.jpg I guess you might like to look at the old mail run. https://s17.postimg.org/6lnu8nfqn/image.png |
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