Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)
Just to throw in my tuppence worth.
Pilot Dar I too agree with your comment above. The problem we have is that this is a MASSIVE thread and there has been too much repetition of the same old same old. Trying to pick the wheat from the chaff is hard when pertinent posts just get swamped in white-noise.
I would ask two things. Dates of events are added to AirPolice's clear summary of events. The dates are important as they can clearly show the arse-dragging to get even the weasily responses from TCT and the BiaP PR team.
Secondly I woud like to summarise the key questions that need to be addressed. Until these are honestly answered then the questioners will continue to press on until they are.
I know for a fact that this story has far far more behind it than what has been scratched out through the veneer by posters on here. The longer a delay in response the more unsavoury information will be discovered.
As I see it the questions are:
- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?
TCT we have the hard evidence, we have checked with various sources that verify our thoughts and back our claims. This is not harassment, there is no hatred, no malice, only a desire for the truth.
Pilot Dar I too agree with your comment above. The problem we have is that this is a MASSIVE thread and there has been too much repetition of the same old same old. Trying to pick the wheat from the chaff is hard when pertinent posts just get swamped in white-noise.
I would ask two things. Dates of events are added to AirPolice's clear summary of events. The dates are important as they can clearly show the arse-dragging to get even the weasily responses from TCT and the BiaP PR team.
Secondly I woud like to summarise the key questions that need to be addressed. Until these are honestly answered then the questioners will continue to press on until they are.
I know for a fact that this story has far far more behind it than what has been scratched out through the veneer by posters on here. The longer a delay in response the more unsavoury information will be discovered.
As I see it the questions are:
- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?
TCT we have the hard evidence, we have checked with various sources that verify our thoughts and back our claims. This is not harassment, there is no hatred, no malice, only a desire for the truth.
Last edited by SATCOS WHIPPING BOY; 18th Nov 2016 at 01:24. Reason: grammar
Moderator
I get it. But remind yourselves of what PPRuNe is, it is a repository for communication. There is, and will not be, any mechanism within PPRuNe by which "action" is taken, a person would have to do that. PPRuNe is not a person, PPRuNe will take no action, other than to moderate communication reposing here. We've invested a lot of extra effort into this one!
So, to best "spend" the moderating resources on this thread, we moderators will entertain a (one/un/uno/unus/ein/en) post from each of those with passion here, which could be something new, or a summary of the important themes to that person. Once that post is made, give it a rest, okay?
Yes, I made the text a different colour in my post, so I could spot it quickly as a benchmark, when I scroll through, to see what's been added after I plead whoa!
Some new, and important information may cause a justified re-invigoration of this discussion, let's wait and see. In the mean time, how about investing some of that massive pilot intellect in other threads in this forum, hint, hint.
So, to best "spend" the moderating resources on this thread, we moderators will entertain a (one/un/uno/unus/ein/en) post from each of those with passion here, which could be something new, or a summary of the important themes to that person. Once that post is made, give it a rest, okay?
Yes, I made the text a different colour in my post, so I could spot it quickly as a benchmark, when I scroll through, to see what's been added after I plead whoa!
Some new, and important information may cause a justified re-invigoration of this discussion, let's wait and see. In the mean time, how about investing some of that massive pilot intellect in other threads in this forum, hint, hint.
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The Portsmouth University oration includes:
"Alongside pursuing her interests in flying and adventures, Tracey and Bird in a Biplane Ltd are committed as part of their work to support a structured outreach programme to support related causes and organisations such as Service charities, education and young people, and women in aviation to name just a few. This support ranges from raising awareness through flying and speaking engagement, through personal appearances and advocacy, and using flying and all its related activities including engineering to educate and inspire young people of today."
As opposed to ad hoc speaking engagements, has anyone seen any evidence of a structured outreach programme (the emphasis being on structured)?
"Alongside pursuing her interests in flying and adventures, Tracey and Bird in a Biplane Ltd are committed as part of their work to support a structured outreach programme to support related causes and organisations such as Service charities, education and young people, and women in aviation to name just a few. This support ranges from raising awareness through flying and speaking engagement, through personal appearances and advocacy, and using flying and all its related activities including engineering to educate and inspire young people of today."
As opposed to ad hoc speaking engagements, has anyone seen any evidence of a structured outreach programme (the emphasis being on structured)?
Last edited by mabmac; 10th Nov 2016 at 15:56.
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Pilot DAR - I thank you for keeping this thread open. This site has helped put pressure on "people in places" and has shown the British honours system for what it really is. A self-promoting backslapping club that will dish out accolades, award and medals to anyone with the right background and breeding. I think we have proved beyond all doubt that TC-T is a fraud. But such things do not matter to the "great and good" because she is after all, one of them. Mere plebs like us should know our place, doff our caps and touch our forelocks as they pass by.
What has this thread archieved? Two things. Firstly, we have shown that fraud in aviation might be more difficult to get away with than in some other spheres. Secondly there is sleeze, corruption, ineptitude and poor corporate governance at all levels in society and you don't have to be that smart to benefit from it.
So as a passing gesture, how about Pprune launching a new tread in say Jet Blast. Call it say the "Curtis-Taylor-Weaver Award" for the most deceitful aviation story or exploit? If yes, please can I nominate the first recipient?
Well done JS, SR, SWB, J and S for sniffing out this particular rat.
PM
What has this thread archieved? Two things. Firstly, we have shown that fraud in aviation might be more difficult to get away with than in some other spheres. Secondly there is sleeze, corruption, ineptitude and poor corporate governance at all levels in society and you don't have to be that smart to benefit from it.
So as a passing gesture, how about Pprune launching a new tread in say Jet Blast. Call it say the "Curtis-Taylor-Weaver Award" for the most deceitful aviation story or exploit? If yes, please can I nominate the first recipient?
Well done JS, SR, SWB, J and S for sniffing out this particular rat.
PM
Thread Starter
Spirit Of Artemis
I agree with Airpolice and others that it is time to move on.
We know and have established that the so called solo voyages were actually not solo as per emulating Lady Mary Heath and Amy Johnson.
Both expeditions were remarkable for the late 20's and early 30's and no woman has ever bettered their records even with modern technology.
If the Air League and the Honourable Company of Air Pilots want to give paper awards for the recipients cloakroom walls who cares?
The focus surely now must be on Boeing and Artemis who milked this highly funded PR execise via misleading the global press.
The word that stands out in headlines was SOLO!
Can we now direct all effort to Boeing and Artemis making a statement?
They funded these multi million pound PR stunts that crashed in Arizona.
They have refused to comment.
There is now justification to open a wiki on the Spirit Of Artemis?
Let us address Boeing and their sponsorship of what was to become a PR disaster.
On 22 February, 2016 it was announced Dennis Muilenburg would succeed James McNerney as Boeing's chairman.
He of course had no input to the Boeing name on the Spirit of Artemis which just a few months later crashed in Arizona.
Surely he must have some sort of comment on how their sponsorship transpired to the point of the aircraft being wrecked in Arizona and their name being associated with a so called solo expedition that was little more than a PR lie?
We know and have established that the so called solo voyages were actually not solo as per emulating Lady Mary Heath and Amy Johnson.
Both expeditions were remarkable for the late 20's and early 30's and no woman has ever bettered their records even with modern technology.
If the Air League and the Honourable Company of Air Pilots want to give paper awards for the recipients cloakroom walls who cares?
The focus surely now must be on Boeing and Artemis who milked this highly funded PR execise via misleading the global press.
The word that stands out in headlines was SOLO!
Can we now direct all effort to Boeing and Artemis making a statement?
They funded these multi million pound PR stunts that crashed in Arizona.
They have refused to comment.
There is now justification to open a wiki on the Spirit Of Artemis?
Let us address Boeing and their sponsorship of what was to become a PR disaster.
On 22 February, 2016 it was announced Dennis Muilenburg would succeed James McNerney as Boeing's chairman.
He of course had no input to the Boeing name on the Spirit of Artemis which just a few months later crashed in Arizona.
Surely he must have some sort of comment on how their sponsorship transpired to the point of the aircraft being wrecked in Arizona and their name being associated with a so called solo expedition that was little more than a PR lie?
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 10th Nov 2016 at 18:57.
TCT, you talk about inspiration. Read the attached plaque, readjust your moral compass, and do what you know is right.
On the one hand you have a young woman, in the prime of her life, killed in the line of duty. All she gets is a poorly researched brass plaque.
On the other hand TCT goes off on three all-expenses paid jollies and gets...
Honourary Doctorate
Honourary Rank
Masters Medal
Bill Woodham Trophy (now withdrawn)
yada yada yada
On the one hand you have a young woman, in the prime of her life, killed in the line of duty. All she gets is a poorly researched brass plaque.
On the other hand TCT goes off on three all-expenses paid jollies and gets...
Honourary Doctorate
Honourary Rank
Masters Medal
Bill Woodham Trophy (now withdrawn)
yada yada yada
Today we should be remembering the women of the ATA.
Moderator
I really like quoting this:
So, yes, we will. The proud work of these brave and skilled women shall be the memorable thought with which we shall punctuate the resting of this thread.
Posters with new information are welcomed to contact a mod, who will be pleased to open this venue for more discussion, when the time is right.
Not today, we remember......
Today we should be remembering the women of the ATA
Posters with new information are welcomed to contact a mod, who will be pleased to open this venue for more discussion, when the time is right.
Not today, we remember......
Moderator
Hello posters,
This thread has been reopened to provide a venue for discussion on this topic. PPRuNe has no opinion as to the topics or details under discussion, but is willing to provide a place for value added, objective discussion. Discussion of facts and new information, which is not pointlessly repetitive, is welcomed. Personal attacks, or unfounded speculation are unwelcomed, and those posts will be deleted. In every case, standard PPRuNe rules for posting prevail.
Failure to follow the rules, or meaningless posts to bump the topic near the top, will result in thread closure. Please discuss facts, with respect for the topic.
This thread has been reopened to provide a venue for discussion on this topic. PPRuNe has no opinion as to the topics or details under discussion, but is willing to provide a place for value added, objective discussion. Discussion of facts and new information, which is not pointlessly repetitive, is welcomed. Personal attacks, or unfounded speculation are unwelcomed, and those posts will be deleted. In every case, standard PPRuNe rules for posting prevail.
Failure to follow the rules, or meaningless posts to bump the topic near the top, will result in thread closure. Please discuss facts, with respect for the topic.
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At the risk of the magic eraser striking again I think it would help if some Pruner in the know could answer a few questions thus saving the swag of e-mails filling up my screen every morning, Here goes, {1} Have any of the group under discussion attended any functions or gatherings making false claims or threats as in the past? {2} Have any of the organisations or senior officers {particularly the RN members} Withdrawn their awards and/or made any public statements regarding the cancelling of such awards and honorary ranks? {similar to the LAA} {3} Have any newspapers, TV or broadcasters brought up any of the items published on PPrune or other sources? If these and similar questions can be answered by any one "in the know" I think it might put this PR disaster for at least two major companies who I suspect find themselves having been duped and really need to put the whole embarrassment to bed. Mods, try to keep the index finger in check, thank you!
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The show is allegedly carrying on in 2017...so it says on her updated website.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...KA_dgGBGtdcR6g
I've also noticed that her Wiki page has remained untouched for the last 10 days.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...KA_dgGBGtdcR6g
I've also noticed that her Wiki page has remained untouched for the last 10 days.
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I watched the video of the interview with Kate Tojeiro, which is linked on the Bird in a Biplane website. Around 11 minutes in, TCT describes the controlled airspace around Victoria Falls, an leaves the listener understanding that aircraft of her type and operation are permitted flight over at 6000 feet. (I have no knowledge of that area of Africa, 'just listening to what TCT says). Then TCT goes on to explain that she wasn't talking to anyone (ATC, I presume), so she "swooped in low" 200-300 feet, and did a few circuits. Then she tells of being told to talk to ATC and having three hours of being told off. Yeah!?! Is this surprising? ATC would probably like their controlled airspace respected!
Shortly after that, in that interview, she describes formation flying with a Piper Cub at 10 feet above the water, with "flamingos going sideways". I hear this as really irresponsible airmanship, from the low flying perspective, flight out of gliding distance, and harassing wildlife/high bird strike risk. Responsible pilots, inspirational pilots don't do that! They sure don't brag about it!!
In my opinion, such flying, which TCT has described herself, on an interview linked on her website, is exactly the kind of flying which should be prosecuted for violation, rather than used to inspire [persons of any gender], or worse, awarded!
It appears to me that TCT started out with a plan, drew a team around her to execute the plan, promoted the plan, and then found that the plan was unworkable. Okay, that happens.... Then honour up, and make the truth out of a difficult situation. Instead, there appears to be recurring push back (by listening to what she says, and reading what she posts).
It's embarrassing! Other foreign pilots flying over Victoria Falls will be branded with suspicion resulting from her disrespect for aviation safety. I, as a pilot, would not like to be grouped with her by people who might be inspired to fly. I would like to inspire respectful, compliant, and safety minded pilots.
Ms. Curtis Taylor, how is what you, yourself are saying and writing, (on your website) promoting respectful, compliant, and safety minded piloting?
Shortly after that, in that interview, she describes formation flying with a Piper Cub at 10 feet above the water, with "flamingos going sideways". I hear this as really irresponsible airmanship, from the low flying perspective, flight out of gliding distance, and harassing wildlife/high bird strike risk. Responsible pilots, inspirational pilots don't do that! They sure don't brag about it!!
In my opinion, such flying, which TCT has described herself, on an interview linked on her website, is exactly the kind of flying which should be prosecuted for violation, rather than used to inspire [persons of any gender], or worse, awarded!
It appears to me that TCT started out with a plan, drew a team around her to execute the plan, promoted the plan, and then found that the plan was unworkable. Okay, that happens.... Then honour up, and make the truth out of a difficult situation. Instead, there appears to be recurring push back (by listening to what she says, and reading what she posts).
It's embarrassing! Other foreign pilots flying over Victoria Falls will be branded with suspicion resulting from her disrespect for aviation safety. I, as a pilot, would not like to be grouped with her by people who might be inspired to fly. I would like to inspire respectful, compliant, and safety minded pilots.
Ms. Curtis Taylor, how is what you, yourself are saying and writing, (on your website) promoting respectful, compliant, and safety minded piloting?
I came across this the other day - I thought I'd share it. It's not about TCT, but it does indicate that there are people who do seem to attract these extremely high levels of editing.
"The undertaker" there is one such - a WWE wrestler with a somewhat complex fan base apparently. I'd hazard a guess that the page on the Jehovas Witnesses might be an extreme version of rolling online controversy.
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3816834/7M2XgZZ.png)
G
"The undertaker" there is one such - a WWE wrestler with a somewhat complex fan base apparently. I'd hazard a guess that the page on the Jehovas Witnesses might be an extreme version of rolling online controversy.
G
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Apparently Tracey will be speaking at the BWPA Christmas Dinner and AGM event in a couple of week's time. I had intended to attend the dinner but I refuse to pay money to hear beautifully presented twaddle.
Thread Starter
Mary Ellis HCAP Award
fwjc commented
Well the BWPA are certainly going to have an interesting speaker.
Meanwhile it is nice to see the HCAP giving an award to a woman pilot who really earned it.
Mary Ellis is 99 and delivered over 400 aircraft during WW2. However despite her war service she was not entitled to wear the RAF brevet.
This has been in the UK press over the last few days.
Inspiring Isle of Wight pilot Mary Ellis recognised for wartime service
Apparently Tracey will be speaking at the BWPA Christmas Dinner and AGM event in a couple of week's time. I had intended to attend the dinner but I refuse to pay money to hear beautifully presented twaddle.
Meanwhile it is nice to see the HCAP giving an award to a woman pilot who really earned it.
Mary Ellis is 99 and delivered over 400 aircraft during WW2. However despite her war service she was not entitled to wear the RAF brevet.
This has been in the UK press over the last few days.
SECOND World War pilot, Mary Ellis, one of the last surviving members of the Air Transport Auxiliary, has been awarded the Master Air Pilot certificate by the Honourable Company of Air Pilots.
Mary delivered more than 400 aircraft to squadrons throughout the UK during the war, flying more than 60 different types of aircraft.During a ceremony at the New Holmwood Hotel in Cowes, around 70 guests, including members of the Royal Flying Corps and Royal Naval Air Service Association, assembled to honour Mary.
She was presented the certificate by Air Commodore Rick Peacock-Edwards CBE AFC.Mary said: "This is a most wonderful honour. It makes me very proud and I am unable to find words for my deep appreciation of this award."
Mary was the Commandant of Sandown Airport for many years and will be celebrating her 100th birthday in February.
Veronica Hermiston, speaking at the ceremony, said: "Mary has an awesomely distinguished flying experience.
"When you consider that she had to land in camouflaged air fields in atrocious conditions with no weapons and completely defenceless, you realised what a talented pilot she was."
Last weekend, Mary was part of the Royal Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall.
She was one of two women at the festival to represent the Air Transport Auxiliary
The Royal British Legion made a special salute to the auxiliary and its contribution to the RAF in the Second World War during the festival at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday.
The annual festival, which honours all those who gave their lives fighting for the country, also marked the 80th anniversary of the first flight of the Spitfire — an aircraft Mary flew more than 400 times.
Mary told the County Press: "It was absolutely wonderful — it really was a great experience. It was first time I had been to the Royal Albert Hall in 50 years.
"I didn’t meet the Queen but she smiled at me from the Royal Box and I smiled back. It was lovely, 4,000 other people were doing the same."
Mary, who used to deliver aircraft to airfields, had to fly in bad weather, at risk of being shot down and often in planes that had not been properly flight-tested.
"It was a little nerve-wracking being the centre of attention. I wish I had been in a plane," said Mary.
"I don’t feel like I’m nearly 100. I feel 45. I still do things I’ve always done, like gardening and driving my car."
During the war, she delivered about 1,000 planes, including Spitfires and Wellington bombers, equipped only with a compass, a stopwatch and a map to navigate with.
Mary delivered more than 400 aircraft to squadrons throughout the UK during the war, flying more than 60 different types of aircraft.During a ceremony at the New Holmwood Hotel in Cowes, around 70 guests, including members of the Royal Flying Corps and Royal Naval Air Service Association, assembled to honour Mary.
She was presented the certificate by Air Commodore Rick Peacock-Edwards CBE AFC.Mary said: "This is a most wonderful honour. It makes me very proud and I am unable to find words for my deep appreciation of this award."
Mary was the Commandant of Sandown Airport for many years and will be celebrating her 100th birthday in February.
Veronica Hermiston, speaking at the ceremony, said: "Mary has an awesomely distinguished flying experience.
"When you consider that she had to land in camouflaged air fields in atrocious conditions with no weapons and completely defenceless, you realised what a talented pilot she was."
Last weekend, Mary was part of the Royal Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall.
She was one of two women at the festival to represent the Air Transport Auxiliary
The Royal British Legion made a special salute to the auxiliary and its contribution to the RAF in the Second World War during the festival at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday.
The annual festival, which honours all those who gave their lives fighting for the country, also marked the 80th anniversary of the first flight of the Spitfire — an aircraft Mary flew more than 400 times.
Mary told the County Press: "It was absolutely wonderful — it really was a great experience. It was first time I had been to the Royal Albert Hall in 50 years.
"I didn’t meet the Queen but she smiled at me from the Royal Box and I smiled back. It was lovely, 4,000 other people were doing the same."
Mary, who used to deliver aircraft to airfields, had to fly in bad weather, at risk of being shot down and often in planes that had not been properly flight-tested.
"It was a little nerve-wracking being the centre of attention. I wish I had been in a plane," said Mary.
"I don’t feel like I’m nearly 100. I feel 45. I still do things I’ve always done, like gardening and driving my car."
During the war, she delivered about 1,000 planes, including Spitfires and Wellington bombers, equipped only with a compass, a stopwatch and a map to navigate with.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 21st Nov 2016 at 16:37.
