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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 8th Mar 2017, 00:29
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Hello,

Much has been hyped about TCT's "outreached" in Singapore.

A mate just sent this link: Singapore now has more women scientists, engineers with PhDs, Singapore News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

He also added: "... they are doing very well without hearing fables. ...almost 40% of the flying trainees at the Singapore Youth Flying Club are young women.Many of the ladies , after getting their PPL , go on to fly in the Singapore airforce , some flying in the F15s, F16's and the transport and tanker fleet . "

Looks like Singapore women are holding their own in the world of STEM and aviation,and I am sure in many other fields too.

Cheers
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 01:20
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Originally Posted by aviator_38
Hello,

Much has been hyped about TCT's "outreached" in Singapore.

A mate just sent this link: Singapore now has more women scientists, engineers with PhDs, Singapore News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

He also added: "... they are doing very well without hearing fables. ...almost 40% of the flying trainees at the Singapore Youth Flying Club are young women.Many of the ladies , after getting their PPL , go on to fly in the Singapore airforce , some flying in the F15s, F16's and the transport and tanker fleet . "

Looks like Singapore women are holding their own in the world of STEM and aviation,and I am sure in many other fields too.

Cheers
And here are the young women
Home - Girls2Pioneers

And here are their highly accomplished female mentors
http://girls2pioneers.org/ambassadors/

I'm doubt both the girls and their mentors linked above would get much utility from listening to an hour of tosh about low flying or lies regarding solo flights.
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 07:43
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Ref Piperboy84 "And here are the young women
Home - Girls2Pioneers " ,

The mate sent this link ( sorry probably more suited for the military aviation forum) to show that " they have woman pilots in their naval helicopter squadron, operating off their frigates , on ASW and surface search missions " too.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...36424069799458



Cheers
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Old 8th Mar 2017, 14:43
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Today is International Women's Day!
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 05:27
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The problem here is the assumption that women need to be inspired or mentored by other women or they have no hope of getting out of the kitchen.

The other problem here is also that somehow a female pilot is considered to be "different" to a male pilot.

Just "birds" eh? Silly, decorative and to be put in gilded cages? The word "bird" really is objectionable.

Most of us moved on from those attitudes about 80 years ago. TCT's publicity people were really wide of the mark in this campaign. The sexism of low expectations is still sexism.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 08:12
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"Running at doors that are already open", comes to mind.....
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 09:11
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Haraka, I agree. I suspect that some old dinosaurs do still exist in the organisations that Ms. T C-T has persuaded to endorse her. She obviously made them think that she is doing something "new" to further the cause of women in aviation.

I think the term "Bird" regarding women (especially in aviation) went out of fashion in the late 1960s.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 09:38
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I'm perfectly relaxed about being flown by a woman. So long as the flight deck has been thoroughly checked for mice. The sudden appearance of one at a critical phase of flight is not covered in training.


http://marthathemouse.ca/wp-content/...9256677813.jpg

Last edited by Flyingmac; 9th Mar 2017 at 09:50.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 11:34
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Most of us moved on from those attitudes about 80 years ago. TCT's publicity people were really wide of the mark in this campaign.
Therein lies the nub of this affair - she wasn't really trying to appeal to women, just trying to get sponsorship money out of organisations run by, lets face it, a certain generation of blokes, so she could go off and have a good time. Any of us would welcome the cash to do an adventure but dressing it up as some sort of an epic/unique event has been her downfall. A professional bull***t merchant who has been caught out.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:05
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An example of pro-actively doing something to empower young women to become pilots supported by those who have the cast-iron credentials to walk-the-walk and talk-the talk!

The number of women working as pilots in the UK is shockingly low. We ask five what must be done to encourage more girls to consider flying as a career, how they got their start and what they love about the job
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...MCNEWEML6619I2
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:19
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You beat me to posting that, Clareprop. Rather more enlightening than some things one sees or has seen in the media...
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:30
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Amusingly, I note that still , despite the total denouement, the TC-T Wiki site is still subjecting any realistic deflating comment to the #3682 Clareprop treatment.
Incidentally the now apparently baseless accusations toward "Jay Sata" and Sam Rutherford are still present on the TC-T purged Facebook site ( purged of all and any negative comments , supporting images to these, or video of contradictory statements that totally confound the "I never claimed " later pronouncements etc...) .

Last edited by Haraka; 10th Mar 2017 at 06:31. Reason: update 3682
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 12:40
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Over the last four decades of my time flying for a living, I've noticed two things with regard to women flying for theirs.

1. Women can fly if they want to.

2. Most women don't want to.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 13:49
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ST:
Over the last four decades of my time flying for a living, I've noticed two things with regard to women flying for theirs.

1. Women can fly if they want to.

2. Most women don't want to.
Clare, Perhaps you would care to comment on this. Your good self and my wife must exceptions.

For the majority of my time in the Royal Air Force 'lady' pilots were not accepted. This was quite rightly addressed. When I flew for a large UK airline in the 90's we had no female pilots.

A certain Red Arrow female pilot did not help the cause. Now we have this well sponsored, well attached, amateur 'solo' pilot parading Royal Air Force wings not exactly helping either. As mentioned many times in this thread 'The Bird' who felt that she was denied the opportunity when younger would never have made the grade. Not even in officer selection let alone in pilot selection.

It is ladies of the calibre of Polly Vacher who should be held high as an example of what can be achieved by the 'fairer sex'. I had the unknown honour of taking her for a flight para dropping before the lady had even thought about taking up this airborne world of aviation. I was surprised that my 'skills' didn't put her off. Probably thought that she could do better. Well she has. Well done Ma'am.

Last edited by Kitty Hawk 1; 9th Mar 2017 at 14:07.
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 16:29
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Over the last four decades of my time flying for a living, I've noticed two things with regard to women flying for theirs.

1. Women can fly if they want to.

2. Most women don't want to.
As a helicopter instructor - and I'm female, BTW - I noticed over the years that it wasn't that women didn't want to fly, but they didn't believe they could. Typically, I'd take a man up for a trial lesson, while his other half watched. Usually, after he came down full of enthusiasm, I'd ask her why she didn't try it. Usual comment, which I heard so often it ceased to surprise me: "Oh no, I couldn't". Not "I don't want to, it's not my thing" but "I couldn't". I'd point out that I'm a perfectly ordinary woman and I did it, so she could too, but it would fall on deaf ears; the woman would usually just repeat like a mantra "Oh no, I couldn't".

Sure, women can fly if they want to. But many don't believe that they can. I doubt if Polly Vacher, or Clare, or me, or anyone else will change attitudes like that very easily. Maybe time will....
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Old 9th Mar 2017, 23:10
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Whirlybird, I do know you're female (we have met, I visited your house up near the TNT about fourteen years ago). By sheer coincidence I drove past there again only this week, first time since.

I would say that those who say "Oh, flying isn't for me" are actually saying "I don't want to try".

I instructed almost as many female students as male ones during my time as a military UAS QFI. I found that only a few females wanted to do much more than go solo. Once they had done that many lost interest. There were some who went on to become successful RAF captains, but not many. One of my female students went on to fly fast jets (she captained the RAFs first all female fast jet crew), another one went on to fly SAR helicopters.

Strangely, one other memorable female student (not mine) had a hugely inflated opinion of her own flying ability and prospects with regard to joining the full time RAF as a pilot. She had to be curtailed from being let out of the circuit solo because she had little or no spatial awareness, to the point of thinking she was over landmarks to the south of the airfield despite having taken off heading north and flying on a northerly track. I was asked to fly with her for a second opinion and she soon got herself totally lost after a couple of rate one practice turns, despite careful briefing, which is what others had already noted. She wanted to continue further north in order to fly back to base! She was later taken off flying altogether because she could make no further progress on the UAS syllabus (and for her own safety). She took great umbrage to this, claiming she was being discriminated against and wrote an indignant complaint to the RAF hierarchy. She rather reminds me of someone......

On the other hand, my own daughter is a member of a university air squadron; she has recently told me she didn't actually join to learn to fly as her main priority (actually she told her mother, I think she didn't want to tell me to my face after all my efforts to persuade her to apply to join). I have flown with her a couple of times in the past and she has also flown in SEP and gliders as an air cadet. She later said she prefers the VIP seats in the cabin to the ones in the cockpit! Her mother agreed, so does she.
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Old 10th Mar 2017, 00:56
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1. Women can fly if they want to.

2. Most women don't want to.
Think I have to agree with Shy. Today the opportunities are there, unlike the days when these Ladies fought for acceptance, and proved beyond doubt they were as good, if not better.

Jackie Mogridge



Jadwiga Pilsudska-Jaraczewska [Polish)



Mary Guthrie



Maureen Dunlop



Joan Hughes



Lettice Curtis



Diana Barnato Walker



First Officer Faith Bennett







Freda Sharland under the prop, Lettice Curtiss and Joy Lofthouse on the wing



All the above from ATA. Then there were the WASPs of the USA, Russian fighter pilots during WWII.

The Ladies are making their mark where they are not permitted to drive a car. First ever all-female flight deck crew for Royal Brunei Airlines has operated a plane from Brunei to Jeddah in Saudi Arabia.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6931726.html

Last edited by megan; 10th Mar 2017 at 01:07.
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Old 10th Mar 2017, 06:37
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All the above from ATA. Then there were the WASPs of the USA, Russian fighter pilots during WWII
Hats off to all of these pilots.

Somehow they seem to have managed without an "Ewald" to stop them getting lost or crashing......

Well, when I say help them avoid crashing, I mean.... erm....
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Old 10th Mar 2017, 08:21
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Megan - What a treasure trove. I am also pleased to to say I have met one of those ladies. Quite by chance I bumped into Diana at the Penta hotel at LHR where she had her Link trainer. An impressive woman and from what I learnt later at White Waltham, a pretty impressive pilot as well. I also think she would have been good fun at a party.

PM
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Old 10th Mar 2017, 08:44
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Shytorque,

Whirlybird, I do know you're female (we have met, I visited your house up near the TNT about fourteen years ago). By sheer coincidence I drove past there again only this week, first time since.
I know YOU know who I am, as do lots of others on here. But only if they've been on PPRuNe long enough, as I rarely post here these days, and my post was to everyone.

Is it really 14 years since you visited me? Where did the time go? I've moved now, but if you're ever in Belper, just down the road, I'd be delighted to see you again.

Your experiences are interesting. I didn't teach enough women to fly to be able to generalise. The ones I did didn't have anything which stood out, except possibly lack of confidence - the "oh no, I can't" syndrome again. You may be right but I honestly don't know.
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