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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 7th Jul 2016, 21:27
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Flying Lawyer


You have misinterpreted my comment "Dream on."

Yes, I did. My apologies.


I don't share your view regarding the legal aspect.

Ok. Personally, I don't believe that specimen would need much modification, but even Judges sometimes disagree with one another, don't they. Nevertheless, I respect your position and understand why.

That said, like you, I also understand the views of what others have said here and elsewhere too, and it does rather seemingly appear like a one finger salute of "we're doing it anyway." I just hope that I am really wrong.

Last edited by Jetblu; 7th Jul 2016 at 21:57. Reason: omit lawyers add Judges
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 21:36
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I don't see what all the fuss is about. If the award has done so much damage to the HCAP surely they could just drop the H?

On a more serious note, it's a very desirable characteristic in a pilot to accept when you've made a mistake, learn from it, and correct it if you can.

Now that the HCAP know the truth behind her flights, perhaps they will take the opportunity to set an example and correct their mistake.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 21:59
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Jetblu

My disagreement doesn't relate to the 'specimen'.
We'll leave it at that.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:16
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Genghis
I suspect you have misunderstood Jay Sata's point about TCT and Ewald Gritsch obtaining their FAA private pilots licences at the same time and place
Perhaps he could elaborate?

My point really was that regardless of the solo /dual thing - it's clear that the two are close collaborators in things aeronautical, so that they did their FAA licences together didn't strike me as all that relevant to anything.

If there is a particular relevance then yes, I'm missing it.

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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:44
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HCAP obviously have as much integrity as TCT.

Anyone here a member ?
No ?
Anyone would like to be a member ?
No ?
HCAP care ?
No ?

I wonder why there are no members here ?
Obvious isn't it ?

Sad state of affairs isn't it, but when those who are held in contempt don't care they are being held in contempt, or more accurately are arrogant enough to not care, it gives you a measure of the organisation.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:46
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Of course it is pleasing to think that a group of people unit to offer an award for accomplishment. I'm certain that is entirely good will, and with promotion of aviation at the heart. Such an award is, in my opinion, something like a very formal and public compliment. You gotta like a compliment, the good will which originates it.

When I have received compliments, I have appreciated every one. That said, some had more meaning to me than others. I have found that a quiet compliment about my flying around the campfire at a fly in camp has meant more to me than a much more formal award. That value of the "compliment" to me was based upon the person/entity offering it to me, and who were other recipients. All are good, some more good than others.

I accept FL's information that the HCAP spans continents with good will toward aviators. Being a backwoods flier, who only rarely enters controlled airspace, some of these refined elements of aviation have passed me by un-noticed. I hope that the HCAP affirms/asserts their standards, so as to maintain the good public image of the good that they do, by assuring that their awards are presented to truly worthy recipients.

In the same spirit, I hope that TCT affirms her sense of honour by only accepting awards which she knows in her heart are truly earned with honour similar to those fine aviators who are previous recipients - that is how she can best honour them.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:49
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Poor Tim Peake, he's going to have to accept his award alongside TCT. Rather devalues it doesn't it. Will the TCT camp use him as a photo opportunity, that'll be hilarious when it happens. I'll be amazed if it doesn't. HCAP will most probably arrange it !
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:49
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Sad state of affairs isn't it, but when those who are held in contempt don't care they are being held in contempt, or more accurately are arrogant enough to not care, it gives you a measure of the organisation.
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That may well give you a measure of the organisation, but not of the membership.

Resigning is but one option for members who still have, and value their honour. Perhaps the wheels of justice are indeed grinding slowly in the background. I feel that personal attacks on members of HCAP are unwarranted, but the company is certainly damaged by this affair.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 22:53
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Genghis

I may be wrong but I think Jay Sata's point was that if Ewald Gritsch was just "her passenger" in the Stearman, as TCT claims, he would not need an FAA licence.

Perhaps he wanted in case he had an urge to do some local solo flying/aerial sightseeing while the intrepid aviatrix and adventurer took the occasional hard earned break from her epic journey across America.
Or in case he wanted to do some air tests following engineering work.
Or just as a souvenir of the momentous flight in which he was privileged to a passenger.

There could be a whole host of reasons why he wanted an FAA licence even though he wasn't sharing the flying, just a passenger.
Jay can be so unkind at times.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 23:00
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As possibly the only "other" person in the crew who could fly the Stearman, I think it made perfect sense for him to get an FAA ticket, just in case something happened to TCT.

That's one of the few bits that I don't see any deceit in.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 06:02
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If he only wanted to babysit TCT, navigate for her, intervene in an emergency, there would be no legal reason for him to hold a pilot's license. If they were trying, futilely, to hide the fact that he is a pilot - it wouldn't make sense to apply for an FAA license which is held on a searchable database.

The only reasons I can see for him to hold an FAA license are legitimate ones.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 06:40
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I assume Jay Sata will explain what he meant when he's next on line.


airpolice
I feel that personal attacks on members of HCAP are unwarranted
Thank you.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 06:57
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Originally Posted by KZ8
There was a BBC documentary film made about Judith Chisholm's preperation for her round-the-world flight, 'JUDITH CHISHOLM. ....If the sharks dont get me....' which is available on-line in DVD format. I remember it being on the telly.

Her biography used to be available from her mother, now sadly passed away, who was the author. Hopefully it is still available.
Incidentally, the TV film was made by Yorkshire TV, not the BBC. I do have a DVD of it, if anyone is interested. ( I was Judith's husband).
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 08:06
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I was suggesting it was quite a coincidence that Tracey Curtis Taylor and Ewald Gritsch both obtained their FAA licences on 23rd September 2013,
see http://www.pprune.org/9410294-post480.html

I would have expected Ewald to hold an FAA part 61 licence long before September 2013. He carried out test and other flights on N56200 in Hungary and probably flew it pre purchase in Belgium.

When this Stearman had mastered its first "long range flight" from our Austrian/Hungarian base to England, piloted by Tracey Curtis-Taylor, the airplane was on display at one of the largest airshows worldwide: THE ROYAL INTERNATIONAL AIR TATTOO, where the airplane was awarded with the first price for its technical quality and appearance.
http://www.stearman.at/South_Africa_to_England.html

It puzzles me is how she flew an American registered aircraft across Europe to Fairford UK in July 2013 two months before the issue of her FAA licence.

Am I missing something?

Given the fact that she has an aversion to complicated cross country flights he must have been in the front seat on arrival at Fairford.

Sam Rutherford earlier in this thread stated her problems with long or complicated solo cross country flying which of course was confirmed by her arrival in Sydney with Ewald on board.

It was only a 45 minute hop from RAAF Richmond but the airspace is very busy with traffic in and out of Bankstown.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/N56200

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 8th Jul 2016 at 09:38.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 10:22
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I would have expected Ewald to hold an FAA part 61 licence long before September 2013. He carried out test and other flights on N56200 in Hungary and probably flew it pre purchase in Belgium.
Pre-purchase he would most likely have flown with a licenced pilot. It also depends which state issued Ewald's National or EASA licence. (Or Tracey's).

However

It puzzles me is how she flew an American registered aircraft across Europe to Fairford UK in July 2013 two months before the issue of her FAA licence.
Now that IS an interesting question, especially as the photos depicting the flights show the aircraft wearing its N registration.

It is my understanding that it is permissible for an N reg aircraft to be flown outside of the US by the holder of a National licence, or an EASA licence, but only within the territory of the state that issued the licence. In this latter respect EASA member states as a group are not one singular state. Accordingly flights within or over those states between Hungary/Belgium and the UK conducted in an American registered aircraft should, I believe, be carried out by the holder of an FAA licence.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 10:29
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From a previous thread on the subject of licencing, and flying N reg in Europe:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf


http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 10:50
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abgd

"If they were trying, futilely, to hide the fact that he is a pilot - it wouldn't make sense to apply for an FAA license which is held on a searchable database."

The deceit couldn't be applied if he wasn't an licensed pilot, [ATPL] could it.

Generally, as FL will attest, these types of characters never believe that they will get caught. Remarkably, as we have seen here, innocence to the 'solo'/'alone' is still being proclaimed despite the damning evidence.

To EG credit, he has told the journalist the truth in relation to him being aboard as licensed pilot.

"The only reasons I can see for him to hold an FAA license are legitimate ones."

Quite probable. I have not seen enough evidence here to suggest that he was a conspirator. Sometimes, it's not just about what is said, what is not said can also play a very equal part.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 10:59
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I feel that personal attacks on members of HCAP are unwarranted
Just to be clear. I didn't make a personal attack on any member of HCAP.
I said that it is a measure of the organisation that it is either too arrogant to care, or simply doesn't care how it is viewed when handing out awards that are not deserved. They may still think the award is deserved of course, which would also be disappointing.

My point was that it's a sad state of affairs that they are still making the award and that TCT is accepting it.

To reiterate just once more what I said, it shows that HCAP obviously have as much integrity as TCT in this little matter.

If they are damaged by it as you say, it is in their power to put matters right. So they either do not believe they are damaged, or they don't care.

Last edited by kghjfg; 8th Jul 2016 at 11:12.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 11:37
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Perhaps some may have not noticed, but the goalposts had been shifted...
It's now ALL about women in aviation, don't you see?
It's not about Tracey at all .. she's just the messenger.

You people just don't seem to see that our ever-so-altruistic Tracey's sole motivation from the outset had only been to highlight
discrimination against women - a very worthy cause and one which should be embraced by all.
Right!

I attended a luncheon this afternoon at which a number of women were present.
By co-incidence, among the girls were two PPLs and an ATPL (that I know of).
The comments I overheard when TCT came into a conversation ranged from .. "A Disgrace!", to .. "She's an embarrassment to all of us!"
I'm sure it didn't really mean anything - you know how girls are when they get together over a couple of glasses of wine.

I sat quietly with my (female) companion and, aside from drawing her attention to the discussion, refrained from comment.
Seems it doesn't just get discussed on here, then.
.

Last edited by Stanwell; 8th Jul 2016 at 12:18.
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Old 8th Jul 2016, 11:39
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EG is probably as annoyed about all of this as those here and elsewhere who are objecting to the award. He hasn't been seeking admiration or credit anywhere - in fact he has kept a very low profile, and what he has stated to the press seems to align with the truth.

Also the status of his licence or licences, whether EASA or FAA are irrelevant because it is TCT who has claimed to be THE sole pilot (and "alone" in a bi-plane) throughout, so for that reason I see no reason to accuse or point fingers at EG.

He has been sucked into a drama that appears to be not of his making. If that is the case I see no reason to drag him through any mud.
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