Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Proviation customer care problems

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Proviation customer care problems

Old 12th Feb 2014, 03:45
  #521 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: CYYC (Calgary)
Posts: 4,909
Good news, but perhaps not for those trying to get refunds.

Well done Paul, for having the stamina to keep shining the spotlight on this sad saga.
India Four Two is online now  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 07:37
  #522 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Oxfordshire
Posts: 597
So, everyone else's fault..... as usual.
He won't recognise PPRuNe? So what difference will that make to anyone??

Trying to give us a bollocking, Nick? Unbelievable!
Blues&twos is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 07:52
  #523 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Gods Chosen Country
Posts: 123
Hmmm

our original order was August 2013 and that was finally responded in December 2013 - that it could not be supplied.
No further response until 28 Jan when approaching as a new customer I made contact. A week later a further promise that a newer version of the ordered unit "could be despatched the following week".
No response or contact since and no refund of the originally paid order sum of 200 quid.

The experience does contradict the long winded assertions by Proviation above.

The statement concerning "no obligation to ship outstanding orders" appears to be insolvency.
We need to determine definitely if it is insolvency or simply closure for convenience that is underway and take appropriate action to register any claim and or involve credit card recovery.
On the Spot is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 08:38
  #524 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 159
Nick's sour grapes make such sweet whine !

... and when I get some time, I will be responding to some of the untruthful things written in the recent post by Bloviation.

My schedule for today includes the very client that Nick (or his spokesperson) claims does not exist. It's going to be interesting to hear her reaction when I tell her of the latest developments.

Just a thought - Does this mean that the "trade-association" of only one member is now going to be a trade association of none?

Paul..
PaulKerry is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 08:52
  #525 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Gods Chosen Country
Posts: 123
facebuck / bloviation

The page can be reported to the site operators for removal and if enough people do so they will hopefully act.

Likewise I wonder if the web hosting service for bloviation could be persuaded to act if the company is indeed effectively in liquidation
On the Spot is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 09:40
  #526 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Staffs
Age: 72
Posts: 7
I am no expert in writing styles, but that very lengthy saga a few posts up does not suggest it was written by the same person that I recognise as Proviation, perhaps a grown up is now helping ?
"Undeniable through the contradictory comments he has left"
was one of the phrases that caught my eye as the limited contacts I had were so full of contradictions from them, that even now I find it hard to believe.

My hope is that those still owed goods or refunds by them are able to receive them soon, and that no-one else falls into this pit of incompetence once called Proviation .


Paul

Derek Slater
DerekJS is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 10:13
  #527 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 72
Posts: 1,196
Glad to see this leeching , parasitical ,dishonest entity has been forced out of business BY A CREDIT CARD PROVIDER who, presumably, as a somewhat more professional and larger enterprise than Proviation, studied the latter's FIVE YEAR HISTORY and withdrew their services.

Thanks to SAAB DASTARD for the salient highlight.....I gave up the will to wade through that delusional verbal diarrhoea, long before that point.

Every person who got their money back, should give thanks to Paul Kerry
and ABGD, who's forensic analysis helped to point-up the systematic deception that was taking place.

I feel sorry for the not-insignificant number of "customers" who didn't shout loudly -enough for long enough....I guess they have subsidised Nicks lifestyle and have less chance of seeing their money back, than of seeing their order delivered.

Finally, Nick...I really hope you seek the psychiatric help you so obviously need. You are ill! You are unable to run a company in a proper, legal, moral and ethical manner.....some would say you're a small -time crook, but your long screed above shows clearly that you are seriously deluded.....seek help before the authorities forcibly lock you up.

It will be very educational to see the winding-up details for this company and find out just how many honest, hard-working people were defrauded of just how much money!
cockney steve is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 14:07
  #528 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kent
Posts: 4
Hi Paul,

Well well well. Ceased trading - I wonder if that is genuine or just a means of putting some people off chasing him. As someone else wrote, it is hard to find this "news" on the Proviation web site. I can't help thinking that he doesn't want visitors on the site to see it either - otherwise why not paste the message at the top of the front page in bold letters?

No, he did not offer a bribe or mention anything about removing my entry on Trustpilot (I suppose I managed that quite well myself by not following the rules ). Neither did he bleat about "family business", "misunderstood" or similar, he just took exception to my use of such words as "Con" and "Fraud". The refund info he sent to me I have sent on to Sage and enquired if indeed this is going through. I could just wait and see, but quite frankly after dealing with Nick I am tired of waiting...... not much seems to come out of that....

Martin
Bobby9768 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 14:19
  #529 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Gods Chosen Country
Posts: 123
Ceased Trading

I received a pdf of a letter confirmed the cessation but also saying that there were no funds to undertake a voluntary liquidation and so they are waiting for a debtor to start the winding up procedure for them.

text below with apols for format loss:-

I hope this finds you well.

This letter is to notify you of the current position with regards to the account for Proviation Ltd.

We believe we have been heavily targeted in recent times by those wishing to harm the company’s reputation, and ongoing strained relations with our merchant card services providers over the last 12 months.

We had our second merchant account terminated in October when the business was re-assessed prior to Christmas 2013, and we could not agree to the harsh restrictions. Unfortunately following a 3 month review with our current merchant, based on the lack of trading history, and a recent spate of eight charge-backs caused by website-server, our current merchant account terminated. Our store is restricted on what platforms we can take payment through, and these have been exhausted.

The extensive damage caused by merchant account holds and closures in the past 18 months has placed the business in a particularly precarious position, and a Catch-22, wherein we are unable to build sufficient trading history with a merchant in order to build a valuable relationship.

It is with sincere and deepest regret that I must inform you that Proviation Ltd has now been rendered insolvent and must cease trading with immediate effect. This is the most difficult decision imaginable, but has been forced upon me, and is the right thing to do in respect of my legal responsibilities as Director.

Unfortunately due to the recent difficult times, the Company has no available funds to appoint an insolvency practitioner to thereby initiate a voluntary liquidation. As sole director and as a family which depended on the business solely for our livelihoods, we have not taken sufficient wage, nor have disposable assets available to fund this personally. As there is HMRC debt, we expect that HMRC will initiate the winding-up proceedings through the High Court, or we invite a creditor to proceed with this on this route.

We do sincerely thank you with the utmost gratitude for your support of Proviation, and trust that on balance our relationship was a profitable one. Please know that I have done everything possible to build a successful and long-lasting business, and I sincerely regret this position. I wish you all the very best in your own company.

Yours sincerely,

Nick Ross
On the Spot is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 14:52
  #530 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Compton Abbas
Posts: 164
I read the whole post. For me the saddest thing is that all it would have taken would have been to come here and post honestly in response to any problems, saying what the resolutions were. If you actually defend yourself (and have nothing to hide) in threads such as these, you can be saved.


Unfortunately, it would appear his position was indefensible.
Tim Dawson is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 14:52
  #531 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 844
A couple of thoughts on the post from Proviation.

For those connoisseurs of the late lamented Skyferry / Weaver Thread, there must be a bit of a sense of déjà vu about a long, rambling and self justifying post made at 1 o'clock in the morning.

For me, the most significant development is that Proviation says it has stopped trading because it has lost it's credit / debit card service provider. I recall posting about this being a consequence of what they were alleged to be doing back in August 2013 and now it seems to have happened.

This is something banks do reluctantly and, as I understand it from the Proviation post, results from a significant number of charge backs. Card companies do require proof of default before crediting cardholders, otherwise it's just too easy to buy something and make a spurious claim.

Of course, in order for there to be a charge back, there must obviously have been a charge in the first place so these incidents must refer to real orders placed on the company.

This would seem to bear out claims that Proviation has been charging cards before shipping the products ordered, and has been slow or unwilling to make refunds. Reputable companies don't do either of these things and if that is not the case, I do not believe that the card company would be cancelling their facility.

They also say that they have a short trading history with that card company. Is so, it begs the question of who were they using before, and under what circumstances did they leave that previous provider?

They also claim that false reviews have been posted on TrustPilot.

Reading many of the reviews, this does not ring true because of the level of product specific detail quoted in them, and that several seem to be from people with a long history as posters on this and other aviation forums (ie not "reviews for hire" folks).

Since writing the above, I have also just read the last but one post and have to say it makes me rather sad: I don't like seeing any business go bust, even if these guys do seem rather to have brought it on themselves.

Since posting, I have seen Tim's post and have to say I agree entirely. It didn't have to end like this.
Jonzarno is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 17:33
  #532 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luton
Posts: 22
Following the news the record should be set straight on some points rather than allowing this to break loose in any which direction:

1) The site went offline for 3 days last week- 1&1 could not confirm why, although the server was online.
2) We received a spate of 8 chargebacks covering a two day period. Of these 2 were defended as shipped. 1 was defended as being less than 30 days from date of order. 1 was on hold pending a quote for an increase in oil shipping to Northern Europe, and this went to chargeback before asking for refund. A Mr. Brown was issued a refund on 31 Jan and did not reply. We sent numerous updates since then to ask if the order could be released. A Miss Fell has a parcelforce tracking number. Another has an interlink express tracking number.

We submitted defences for all but 2 claims.

I sent this to our merchant bank:

"

Lack of contact recently due to our shop site being down multiple times over the last 2-3 weeks. Most notably w/c 27 Jan. This impacted on
A) Customers being able to log in to check their order and read messages. The separately hosted 'self service area' was offline.
B) We were unable to access the order management of the site (also based online)
C) Customer fear that something had happened to the company.

I attach some recent emails to our hosts, 1&1 – my most recent email to them – you’ll see in my opening line I say “once again”, as this had been on-going. I also have other emails I can send, plus twitter support messages to prove that I believe our shop being repeatedly offline has caused some of these problems. "

We traded with our first merchant account from day one for approx 4.5 years with no issues until we took on a mass market electronics product and our turnover peaked in Dec 2012. Merchants view the seasonal period as high risk and we were re-assessed on this basis. We were under review until June 2013. The bank and my company elected to part ways as we could not agree that the business should be penalised throughout the year on the basis of seasonal trade- which would not be repeated.

I was naive and should have kept the account open. Once you terminate an account a domino effect ensues. You have quarterly reviews on trading style, product range, order values. Our second account was set up in haste by a salesperson and should have been more closely scrutinised prior to set-up. It lasted only 3 months.

It is unheard of to have three accounts. On the basis of the above downtime coinciding with a 3 monthly review almost exactly accompanied by a batch of chargebacks received combined with people being told to go to chargeback on this thread, they closed the account on the basis of risk.
Merchant banks take risks in supplying card services- however we invested a security deposit into our merchant account of a substantial sum of money. This will not be released for 120 days and remains in place to cover chargebacks.

We enjoyed very strong Christmas sales this year and a busy January. We received 8 chargebacks totalling £511.00. We had the facility in place not to charge cards, and most of these were only charged as they had been sent, part sent, or were pending delivery or refund for cancellation/return. Prior to these 8, the company received only 3 chargebacks from November. Companies are expected to receive a high number over Christmas. 1/3 were successfully defended.

"(Proviation) has been slow or unwilling to make refunds" Refunds failed after termination of our second account in October as the merchant refused to allow refunds. We processed them and they sat in limbo. We had to send cheques or bank transfers,effectively paying twice. In these instances unscrupulous customers could have also filed chargeback claims and received money twice over. We still issued the refunds, nonetheless.

"They also claim that false reviews have been posted on TrustPilot" We claim to have been 'set up' on a few occasions. We got wise to 'customers' ordering very small items shipping to fake addresses.

We attracted many good reviews recently which Paul Kerry did not want you to see. He blocked them. However Trustpilot re-instated them once customers had surrendered their personal and order information.

"all it would have taken would have been to come here and post honestly in response to any problems". I would have said the exact same thing, and I did post responses when this thread was young. I came to be eaten alive and resigned myself to think I couldn't possibly say the right thing. I was told my language was flowery, or that I was talking 'BS'. The occasion where we handled a Dynon D2 repair and commented on this stands out in my mind. We tried to explain the unit had to be checked and inspected before a return could be made. We arranged UPS to collect it. We turned it as fast as possible but not fast enough.

"Just a thought - Does this mean that the "trade-association" of only one member is now going to be a trade association of none?"

I didn't have time to pursue AEAS. It was designed so that manufacturers could sign up in order to agree to respond to customer feedback if ever a product was deemed unsuitable for use in aviation, or required modification. It was to be a reassurance that members would only sell products to customers that met high standards, and collectively would withdraw products from sale which did not meet certain criteria or received complaints. As an unregulated sector in terms of products, it came to me as an idea to start it.

"The page can be reported to the site operators for removal and if enough people do so they will hopefully act" The checkout is offline and there is a notice in red writing at the top of each page. There needs to be a place to assist customers affected- PPRuNe is not this place. Our news page needs to remain live.
Sorry but I cannot replace the site with a generic page yet but it is being worked on. This only happened 48 hours ago so you'll need to bear with me.

"Congratulations to Paul Kerry and others" For closing a business? I'm sorry but regardless of the length of this thread, we did continue trading successfully. Our shop is too old to integrate with any other merchant services gateways, and regardless of this, we cannot source a new account. It is actually this simple. Clearly we have bills to pay and outgoings whereby we cannot take a 6 week break without a merchant facility as happened in October. This event last year was the catalyst for what has occured now.

Lastly, since people can speculate on my background and call me various names I had never, ever, expected to be called in my life (mug that I am for starting a company in this industry); take note that Paul Kerry is most definitely not who he says he is. If he is working, then he is doing so illegally. I have nothing to gain from giving you this information- just to suggest that I am not the one aiming to deceive.

I wanted to post to wrap up some final comments since the closure announcement and will now close-off. Thank you.
Proviation is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 18:20
  #533 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Oxfordshire
Posts: 597
All your own fault, Nick.... writing stuff down won't force people to believe stuff contrary to their own experiences

All your own fault.
Blues&twos is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 22:18
  #534 (permalink)  
DB6
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Age: 56
Posts: 1,262
Proviation customer care problems

Proviation, what is the point of posting all that crap when everyone on here knows, quite independently, that it's total bollocks? I know you're talking crap because I had precisely the experience that many others have described. The only thing wrong with this latest development is that it has taken so long to happen.
DB6 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2014, 23:28
  #535 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Wild West (UK)
Age: 40
Posts: 1,144
I am no expert in writing styles, but that very lengthy saga a few posts up does not suggest it was written by the same person that I recognise as Proviation, perhaps a grown up is now helping
For what it's worth, it does seem to have been written by the same person as previous Proviation posts. Plenty of it to analyse!

Last edited by abgd; 13th Feb 2014 at 05:19.
abgd is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2014, 09:04
  #536 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southampton
Age: 34
Posts: 49
Well i am confused

Usually when a business sadly closes down, the current business model is stopped and a prominent announcement made.

Proviations website is still taking orders, you just cannot pay for them
A strange one line only message says simply, we cannot accept cards AT THIS TIME on a hard to find news page.

The basket page will not allow you to pay, but if you are customer and got to that point you are bound to ring up and ask why, so maybe there is a back way being employed to take more customers money.

His trustpilot page reviews are still "being edited" one would guess by proviation themselves and despite signing off on this forum, announcing this would be the last time he would state his position on prune, he has continued to populate this thread 3 times with large diatribes and no doubt respond to this one.

If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?

I don't think we have seen the last of this one.
CaptainChaos981 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2014, 11:17
  #537 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 72
Posts: 1,196
I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there.

He claims to have a security bond (SUBSTANTIAL ! no less!) lodged with the card- provider......Well, I'm no clairvoyant but I've a strong suspicion that it is considerably less than the amount owed to people who paid for non-existent goods.

Many posts ago, I stated that any creditor should pursue a refund agressively, before the pot ran dry. I also suggested that today's payments were paying yesterday's refunds,the unclaimed balance being used to keep the Ross lifestyle and the Proviation money-rake operating.

I might even have alluded to Bernie Madoff and Ponzi-schemes.

Well, Mr. Ross, FYI there are some situations where a Company Director cannot hide behind a Limited Liability Company.

Libellous statements against individuals.
Fraudulent trading.....Deception.

Had you taken note of the well-intentioned P.M's from experienced businessmen, showing you how to restore credibility and trade with integrity, Proviation could have been a market-leader.

You wilfuly ignored that advice and a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims.

You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?
Where's all the money paid for non-existent goods?

I do hope a proper investigation is carried out. Remember, the family home could be siezed, you gould face criminal charges....
Thinking you can get away with what's been going on, is indeed delusiory.

Go se your doctor! If, indeed, your actions have been as a result of Mental Illness, that would be a defence in Court.

TO ANYONE OWED MONEY......CONTACT YOUR CARD-PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY AND COPY THE TRADING-STANDARDS OFFICE AND cHIEF cONSTABLE OF THE AREA POLICE,WHERE PROVIATION WAS BASED.

DO NOT DELAY, IT ONLY COSTS 3 STAMPS AND A FEW PHOTOCOPIES. You may see justice!
cockney steve is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2014, 11:36
  #538 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 159
This is actually the correct place to which to direct fraud complaints according to a rather helpful constable at Bedfordshire Police.

Action Fraud | Report fraud and internet crime

0300 123 2040

Paul..
PaulKerry is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2014, 12:11
  #539 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: England
Posts: 2
Proviation customer care problems

Nick is a liar and thief plain and simple he took money from my account in September and I have received no good at a cost of close to £700. Despite numerous emails and calls and your assistant alex saying he would chase up you are a pure liar.

I suggest you pay people back for the money that they have worked hard for and not cheated like you.
icantfly99 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2014, 12:16
  #540 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Luton
Posts: 22
"I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there."

- Of course I believe it!
- You don't know Paul Kerry? I do. We shipped goods to him, and I know others who know this individual and his background

"flood of defrauded victims." We set up a business to buy, sell and ship goods to end users which has happened successfully thousands of times. I have kept meticulous records, shipping receipts and exported our order management system to a secure server for future records. A company which subscribed to consumer organisations, regulatory compliance, with hundreds of suppliers internationally is not a company seeking to defraud.

My lifestyle for 6 years has been one of hard work almost without a day's break. Those on here continuing trying to hack personal information of mine will have IPs logged.

Any investigation into my personal affairs will reveal that I ring-fenced money into the company. I could have walked away in October but instead I raised finance in order to take on a new merchant company and continue the business, which was the responsible move to make to ensure our creditors would continue to be paid. My lifestyle has been one of absolute dedication to running the company. It sickens me to be tained on this thread that I behaved any differently.

The contradictory remarks here are extraordinary. Surely I would not plough money into an indefinite merchant holding account if I was seeking to defraud customers- who would invariably go to chargeback and thereby close the merchant account. As director I will report to the official receiver and surrender my records.
My personal finances will reveal I barely took any wage at all and re-invested all profits into the company. At one point in October I used personal credit cards to pay for goods in order to keep the company moving. I now have no recourse on that and still have these bills to pay, somehow.
All of our outstanding orders for the last 30 days have been refunded and I have kept a list of all of these refunds which were processed on 10th and 11th Feb and this has already been emailed to my contacts in organisations with whom I wanted to work closely and benefit from advice from.


"a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims." Your choice of words is mind boggling. When was this flood? I see the same names on this forum time and time again. We processed 3886 orders in the 6 months to 02 Feb 2014?

"You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?" The stock will be sold off by the receiver. I can't touch stock for personal use! Money was ring-fenced and the business made pre-tax trading losses in its first year as a limited company following a smaller loss in 2012. Our average order value was £127. Base that over 12 months and you have a company turning over up to 1M. As a limited company all accounts are compiled by chartered accountant. I have submitted my self assessment which indicates I have in fact earned under the tax threshold. I have not claimed any expenses since July 2012 and my wage was barely taken. Our overheads had crept up and up, advertising costs too; however the aim was growth and price competition.

"If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?"

Hello 'A'. The site is online so the news page can be shown. See my previous remark. I can't replace the shop with a generic page at the moment. Ask 1&1 - you might have plenty of time to spend on the phone to them today. Believe it or not, I don't.

Part of my posting here is part of the winding down process to ensure that I make it patently clear that I have not behaved as some rogue trader in the running of this company; that instances of poor service were addressed; and that the majority of orders were satisfied. It is an undisputed fact in terms of the ratio of complaints which have been formalised.

People have mis-read my comments below as I shift of blame. I am wholly responsible for the company and this is what I signed-up to. The salient points are there to give you insight into what happened for anyone who cares enough about the mechanisms behind the failure. What you here do is criticise, instances of poor service- you do not know the mechanisms behind the problem and you can't possibly know this unless you worked in the company, or you take note of my account in my previous posts.

As I have mentioned, everything is recorded, and the financial picture of the company will be ascertained by a licenced professional, who will also note, in clear numbers, how trigger events caused this failure. Copying and pasting reviews does not change this.

Last edited by Proviation; 14th Feb 2014 at 13:15. Reason: Deleted comment in order to re substantiate
Proviation is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.