The same old rant, different year, different location
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Join Date: Aug 2000
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The same old rant, different year, different location
About this time last year I posted a topic on folk landing long..... .. .I was at EBGB yesterday and watched one aircraft (PA28 type) land fast and long on r/way 15 (500 metres of tarmac). The chap only just managed to stop it before it ran off the end.. .. .Two sips of coffee later and another aircraft (plastic fantastic nosewheel) arrived too fast, eventually got the wheels into the tarmac at about two thirds of the way down the runway and rather than taking power and going around, promptly ran off the end into the mud.. .. .A few minutes later - a chap arrived in a high performance taildragger, put the aircraft down on the numbers and turned off at the intersection, thereby proving that it can be done!. .. .There was also the young FI trying to hand swing a visiting Robin complete with student pilot on board. Poor chap had obviously never been properly taught how to do it - though to be fair he was safe. That the training aeroplane had just landed after a 30 minute flight then did not sufficient charge to turn the engine over is one thing to ponder. Quite another is that he was trying to swing a visibly flooded engine on both mags. He than tried to blow the fuel out with the throttle closed.. .. .Am I alone in thinking that training standards are slipping? . .. .I hope that the NPPL syllabus puts the emphasis onto grass-roots instruction and teaches those time-honoured skills that aviators from earlier decades learned.. .. .Stik. .. .The only hard thing about flying is the ground!
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Hear Hear,. .. .Was working in the tower @ Bembridge a few years back, and we had them everyday, a constant source of entertainment.. .. .Common sense has now all but gone in aviation due to commercial pandering to the airlines and JAR.. .. .Simple Question:. .. .What gives you the right, to teach people how to fly an aircraft when you have just finished your advanced PPL yourself. You finish a years spell in the class, do a miniscule amount of flying, which you think you can call experience, then think your top-gun and either deserve a right hand seat job flying 150 pax, or resign yourself to teaching innocent people who want to learn how to fly, when you barely know yourself?. .. .Elementary flying skills, like horizons, reference points, approach speeds, lookout, and the round out are a farce in modern day training.. .. .When schools realise that if they pay a decent instructor wage they will get decent instructors that actually take pride in the training they give and will not be off at the first opportunity, the schools will get decent reputation and good business.. .. .Ho hum - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I think part of the problem is that we are at the start of the good weather & people are taking to the air after a few months off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .Sounds a lot like me yesterday. Realising this before starting, I done some circuits and, like your friend, some of the first landing were a bit fast & further down the runway than I would like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . And unlike your friend, I did go around once ( twice more due to ac on the runway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> ).. .. .I think that, at this time of year, we all have to be a bit cautious. One of my enforced go arounds was due to an aircraft landing too far down the runway & not getting off in time. The other was due to an ac getting on the runway to take off & sitting there.. .. .And finally, I just thought I'd mention. I finihed off with my last 3 landings on or v.near the numbers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .BtB
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I know it's an old rant, but it's not getting any better. Why aren't pilots taught to flare properly when landing? Stop by any GA field and watch the Pipers and Cessnas - it is *extremely* rare to see one that doesn't land on all 3 wheels at once. No attempt to flare to minimum flying speed and grease it down on the mains with the nosewheel high.. .. .If they learned on taildraggers they *have* to know how to land properly.. .. .OK, such sloppy landing technique is unlikely to kill you (unless you run off the end into something solid 'cause you landed hot and high), but just look at all those very expensive collapsed noselegs in the AAIB reports every month. We all pay for those in our insurance premiums or club hire rates.. .. .Grrrr!!!!. .. .SSD
Join Date: Feb 2002
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One "cure" for these problems following a winter lay up might be to change the min hours requirement to something more sensible, and spread over an even period so you don't have pilots scratching around with 12 hours a year or whatever, make it say 50 per annum perhaps?, an hour a week is nothing.
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I agree in principle, but an hour a week is five grand, Lugwig - and is it really the best way to spend the money? Maybe somewhere in the middle.... . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 14:28: Message edited by: Evo7 ]</small>
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Maybe it's not the minimums per annum that are the problem but currency.. .. .Maybe a basic check flight if you haven't flown for 3 months. A few ccts & a PFL would help anyone.. .. .BtB
Join Date: Apr 2001
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5 grand is 5 grand. That is alot of money to people trying to start a new business AND maintain a PPL for example. Anyway, surely no-one in the UK is able to fly every week of the year. I reckon more like a max of 40 weeks in a year?? I'm personally budgeting on flying around 30 hours a year once I have my licence.. . . . <small>[ 25 March 2002, 14:42: Message edited by: Simon W ]</small>
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I will never forget, 2 years ago, i was checking out a part time A340 F/O flying for a big UK carrier, he was going to fly my supercub part-time banner towing along the south coast.. .. .Im in the back and we are on the 4th or 5th circuit, approach is looking good, "ok start the round out & chop the power and as it begins to settle keep the stick coming back so that all 3 wheels touch at the time: His neck muscles and tension resembled Mike Tyson in the ring, no sooner had we landed, the crosswind started to take hold, "work the rudder - work the rudder" . .I HAVE CONTROL, i managed to stop it groundlooping but did not stop us veering off the runway at 30 degrees off runway heading, luckily in between sets of lights. . .. .Come to a halt, quick burst of power, get back on runway, call from tower "are you ok" reply to the effect, "yes all part of learning to fly a taildragger".. .. .Said A 340 F/O then remarks to me that if he had done that in the company aircraft he would probably have killed everyone, one more circuit, no use he was past it for the day.. .. .Never came back again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
The Original Whirly
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If you haven't flown all winter you need to go up with an instructor - very simple. 50 hours over the summer and a few months lay-off probably means you're out of practice. On the other hand, last year I kept more or less current on f/w aircraft while mainly flying helicopters, by circuit bashing for about half an hour every 3 weeks or so; I wasn't brilliant but I was safe. And that wasn't even 12 hours in a year (it was by the time I'd done the Dawn to Dusk and flown to Ireland though). It comes down to common sense and knowing your own limitations. Unfortunately you can't teach those.
Whirly excepted - I could check out any of you and find fault. Standards today are actually higher than in decades gone by due to the JAA mandatory flight checks. . .. .Discuss,. .. .WWW
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Bertie was correct with the three month recheck.. .. .The real problem is who will ensure the instructor even comes close to knowing how to land properly???. .. .Therein lies the problem. Instructors that are not competant due to having been taught by incompetant instructors.. .. .This has been going on for many years, the big problem is the morons in Government that dictate that to be competent you must spend all your time learning useless crap that just keeps pouring out of the monster they have created.. .. .JAR is the ultimate level of stupidity they have reached yet, but hang on it will get worse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. ........... . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
A lot of sense being talked here (a lot of it by people like me that don't have as much cash to spend on our "hobby" as Ludwig).. .. .I've just finished a 6 month (financially induced) layoff and will probably have to budget myself to fly not more than 30hrs for the rest of this Year.. .. .Having started flying again last w/e (50 mins mostly upper air/gen handling/PFL/EFATO, which was mostly fine), I did an hour circuit-bashing with the CFI yesterday, which whilst ok, did show that I needed to tidy things up....a bit fast on the approach/overcompensation for x-wind/not enough pitch-up on the go-around etc etc.. .. .Although the CFI commented that I was "safe enough", I felt that I would really like one more session with him to really get things sorted (despite the dual rate of approx £150ph) - of course he didn't disagree!. .. .Some might think I'm being a bit over-cautious, but to my mind having a limited budget is not an excuse for not being safe & competent.. .. .Oh, and I was flying a brand new aeroplane (172SP - very nice!), so he probably doesn't want me to bend it!
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The 3 point landing and not keeping the nose up annoys me more for the damage it does to the dampener on the nose gear. Same with TO all the weight on the nose until rotation.. .. .From what i can see if one person complains about shimmy before the rest and complains most. Its usually them who are doing the most damage.. .. .Although i must admit now when its busy i pick my landing point dependant on where i want to turn off and always try and have the horn give a hoot just as I touch down.. .. .MJ
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Stik. .. .Must be something about EGBG. Which runway was in use?. .. .I was there on Saturday when 10 was in use and not to put too fine a point on it the A/G was pants. Each time an A/c called final the dear old A/G replied Roger G-**** report final.. .. .A few aerial backs were being well and truly put up.. .. .I don't think its just the tyros who are to blame re lowering standards.. .. .I announced a downwind join to 10 as that fitted nicely: There were several other A/C in the circuit, some downwind, some base and I couldn't see any of them. They were probably doing Bomber command circuits while my wing tip traced the runway!.. .. .Any way this A/G was having a bad hair day so I announced extending downwind to get the base leg stuff onto final.. .. .At 2 mile final a Twin appeared off my left side on base, thought the better of carving me up, disappeared somewhere behind me only to reappear on short final as I was backtracking the main.. .. .Disappeared over my head on a go-around with the R/T comment 'that was a bit close.'. .. .You're not bl**dy kidding thought I.. .. .Less than two minutes later, having dropped off his passenger he roared off, doubtless to cause mayhem at some other A/D.. .. .Apart from that a great day's flying, actually flew home using my new crinkly half mil and stopwatch.. .. .So the twin jocks in a hurry can be just as dangerous.. .. .Hope he reads this post.
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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Have to admit I was recently up for a check not having flown a 152 for several months. Did one perfect touchdown at a nice big runway but the next airfield - a small narrow runway - well I decided on a go-around. The instructor was all for putting it down but I'm one of those people that just doesn't care about spending the fuel on another circuit. You see I'm just too young to die.
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The secret is to based at a short field where you have no choice but to be current in landing short. . .. .Then the boss decided to level the strip & put in some much needed drainage so we were using the grass taxiway parallel to the burn. About 50% wider than the wheel track of a C172, now that was interesting. Too far to one side and you were into the long grass, better than the option on the other side.. .. .On the occassions the A/C is based at the local international airport the trick is to practice hitting the numbers & keeping the mains either side of the centreline marking each landing. It really does become 2nd nature - I'd be lost if ATC asked me to land long these days! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Regards,. .. .c-dog
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But remember c-dog this forum is full of professional (?) pilots. In other words if it ain't tarmac it cann't be a runway.. .If you don't wear gold braid you cann't be a pilot and if you can land a taildragger you must be one of those hobby people!!. .. .I always used to wonder why so many scheduled services arrived - then I saw the spotty erks from the club up the front!!