Fed up.

[mike172]

Right, I started a new job a week ago working in a hotel. While it's not bad, it's really not what I want to be doing at all.

I love aviation. I always have and I always will. Ask anyone who knows me, they'll say the same. I've known from such a young age that I wanted to fly, and that desire is still burning deep inside.
I've had my PPL for close to two years, paid through another job that I had no interest in doing.

As I type I'm watching a BBC programme about early British aviation.
I've come to the point where I am totally fed up of working crap jobs and I just want to do the thing that makes me truly happy.

There doen't seem to be any help for young people like myself who want to get into aviation. If mummy and daddy have lots of money then you're sorted. But mine aren't. People only seem to be interested in (often) pointless and irrelevant qualifications and not passion and enthusiasm anymore.

I often wish I was born 50 years ago where a pilot could start out by sweeping hangars or cleaning aircraft.

I guess this little rant of mine is... I don't know really.

I'd do anything. Sweep hangars, clean planes, cut the grass at the airfield, make the guys up in the tower cups of tea! Anything.

Can anyone out there help? Anyone out there feel the same?

[gasax]

Humm. There is no doubt you are a 'young person'. Why should there be 'any help'?

If you want to do something then it is about working it out (or not) but actually finding a way to do it. My daughter has similar thoughts (although a different ambition). She seems to think that society should make it easy for her to get what she wants, I counter with the obvious question of why?

What do you offer anyone that would make them want to fund or assist you?

In my daughter's case - the answer is nothing - she just feels that because people have always helped her, they should continue to do so.

People work for me, I'll help. People really impress and help, I'll try a bit more. People are utterly committed and focused - I'll do what I need to - but actually they do most of it.

And that is the point, you can decide. Yes working is a real pest (I know only too well many of my friends are retired and they really upset me!). Working is usually what enables many if not all of the things we do. If you want to wash aircraft and fly for food it is probably possible. Do you really want to do it?

The answers are all in your head not ours - best of luck!

[mike172]

I'm not some bum who expects to be handed everything on a plate. I've worked 11 hour days since I was 16, paid for my licence and I'm proud of that. I'm not scared of hard work. I'd love to work at an airfield cleaning the hangars out. I really would.

However, I seem to be stuck in a rut. I can't get out. I'm asking for some help and advice from people who have experience.

[Chesty Morgan]

Mike have you actually been down to your local airfield?

[mike172]

Chesty, I've tried so many around my area and further away. Not just airfields and airports but also companies that work in the aviation industry.
I heard back from maybe two or three and they were all negative anyway.

I don't know what else to do.

[Stephen Furner]

Fantastic to hear about your interest in a career in aviation there is loads of stuff going on out there that would benefit from some passion and commitment. Don’t live in the past 50 years or 5 years ago learn from it and enjoy a better future.


When I left school and was working as a labourer on building sites and in factories all the older unskilled men I was working with always said to the youngsters “Get a trade”. They were often keen the youngsters should learn from their experiences and get on.


I pass this advice on to you as the gift of one generation to the next. Abandon TV and the internet and get out there and see what’s available. If you see an opening for a trainee to work in an airport or at a small airfield then jump on it.


How about becoming an engineer? What about spending a few years learning to be a member of one of the fine teams of people who keep aircraft in the sky? Had you thought of an apprenticeship? Do you know what apprentice and other training opportunities there might be at your local airport or airfield?


You are currently working in the hospitality industry by the sound of it. There are hotels on airfields that need people. You could be one of them. What about passengers and their safety. Could you help get an aircraft full of people safely out the exits in the case of an emergency. Do you have the ability to calm someone who scared of flying but has travel as a passenger? If so, there may be airlines that need you for their cabin crew.


It’s a big world out there the 50 years ago people have had their turn now it’s yours.

[Pace]

Mike

I really do feel for you! Now is not a good time in aviation. The one ray of hope is that because of the huge financial cost of getting into aviation I know the influx of pilots coming in at the bottom is fast drying up with dire warnings to the airline industry of a huge potential shortage of pilots in the future.

I have friends who have funded type ratings by selling everything from the home to the girlfriend so if you are determined enough you will find a way.
Depending on what flying you want to do at least get to a point where you are employable ie a CPL and Multi IR and then NETWORK. Get your face known offer to help, offer to fly right seat for free just to get some flying.
Make your goal a frozen ATP and then look at companies like CTC for type ratings to get into the Airlines.

Now is an awful time but hopefully 2-3 years away pilots will be in hot demand.

Pace

[Foxy Loxy]

Just a suggestion....

How about getting yourself an A/G licence and doing the radio at your (or a) local airfield? It won't cost you much, you'll be in the environment and earning a few quid to boot. Be sociable and keen, and you might just make a useful contact here and there. At that level, no airfield operator is going to mind if your ambition ultimatley is to fly. You're a useful stop-gap.

Ten years ago, I worked at an airfield doing just that (my own story is an aside, I'm an ATCO now), and I met I lovely young chap of 16 who washed aircraft to pay for his lessons. He now flies B757s.

One thing I have learnt about getting on in this industry - much of it is about being personable and taking opportunities where/when they occur. The rest of it is down to you and your ability and determination to succeed.

Good luck


PS. CAP 452 refers

[Stephen Furner]

There seem to be a few www sites of companies working in airports or partnering with airports to deliver services that have contact points for jobs Vacancies

Might be worth making contact and seeing what they can offer and getting your name known if a job comes up.

[Pilot DAR]

What Foxy Loxy said...

That's how I did it, and it was only 35 years ago... It would be unfair to you to assume that similar opportunities are convenient for you, but a lot of us did it that way. I spent a lot of time cleaning the undersides of aircraft for free, in the hope I would be taken flying. I was...

An author once said "luck favours the prepared". Stay prepared Mike...

[sternone]

There is never going to be a time when they will have a shortage of pilots.

An ATPL is just a bus driver in the sky.

Go for a career where you can afford private flying. You will be more happy in your life.

Life's changed, adept, try to do something. And oh, please stop thinking that everybody who is successful got it from daddy, most of them didn't.

[Justiciar]

I often wish I was born 50 years ago where a pilot could start out by sweeping hangars or cleaning aircraft.

I think it still happens like this sometimes and I know one lad who went from hangar sweeping to the RAF.

I have to say that I agree to an extent with sternone, though I am a) too old by far to be a commercial pilot anyway and b) in a very well paid non aviation career which funds my flying.

If you really have a passion then you will find a way to do it, many do. A friend of mine went from owning and running an MOT garage to being a commercial pilot, though he borrowed hugely to do it and now flies cargo.

Economically, training commercially makes no sense. Unless you are a captain on long haul for BA you will almost certainly be able to earn more in a non aviation career and the £40,000 to £60,000 it costs you to train will fund a life time of flying what ever you want to fly. Another chap I know went from the RAF to Virgin and flies Airbus on long haul. He hates the tedium of the job as compared to his military flying and being away from his family.

There is an element of being a bus driver or systems manager on the long haul, and more interesting local or non routine work is even more difficult to come by. May be you can do something non commercial to give you the buzz you crave, e.g. aerobatics or display pilot. You don't have to earn a living from flying to make it interesting

[b.a. Baracus]

Why not try and get work as a Ramp Agent, I used to and can honestly say it was the best job I ever had. Working outside, getting up close to all kinds of aircraft, speaking to a wide variety of crews, playing your part in getting the aircraft turned around on time, it was fantastic, I actually looked forward to going to work, believe it or not. Its just an example to show you what is out there.

[englishal]

Depends on how much you really want it or whether it is a whim.

A friend of mine took out a loan - can't remember what he said it was for, but didn't tell them it was for flight training. He then scooted off to the USA and did his PPL/CPL/FI ratings and worked for a few years as FI, building the time and a bit of money - enough to convert to JAA when he retuned. Which he did, but it must be fate or something because he entered the US green card lottery and got a green card, so then moved back to the USA and started his very own sucessful aviation business.

Of course he took some risks but it paid off for him. In your case you could possibly convert to JAA with 1500 hrs under your belt and walk into a RHS somewhere in Jarland.

The other way is to save up for the training....that is really what I did, I had a decent job and one day decided to do the PPL. Once the bug had bitten me, over the next 4 years or so I did an IR, ME, then the CPL (all paid for due to my real job). I had views of a career change in 2004 but actually realised I'm happy just flying for fun, which is funded by my present job and I can choose whether to fly or not.

I remember sitting at the end of the runway on Gurnsey in the RHS of a turbo prop (commercial op), the heavens had just opened, the sky was black as night due to the cloud, and there were forecasts of embedded Cb's around. Oh and the weather radar had been taken out for maintenance and there was this sheet of cardboard where it should have been! We took off and were in it fairly quick, and when the captain shouts to everyone in the back to "strap in tight" and tells me we're going to "slow right down, f*cking hell this could be nasty", then I must admit I really wished I was sat on my sofa drinking a nice warm cup of coffee!

[rojread]

You might check out survey companies. With decent computer skills you can get slotted in as a systems operator with some training if you work at it. (In the old days it used to be photographic skills or good map-reading but not now with GPS and digital crap). The hours are long, seven day weeks common, the overseas opportunities (in some miserable places) plenty, the pay is average but allowances often make up. If you are prepared to be 'hands on' as an all-round crew member (or an extra spanner) it can be a pretty interesting career.

Mind you, written applications from 'wannabes' get left lying around. Go visit a company or look out for a survey crew and make yourself known. When I was working full time (retired after 50 yrs in survey) I brought in several FNGs after airfield chats. Good luck.

[plymouth71]

Have you looked into ...

Student loans? Bursary applications? Employment programs offered by your government?

Another suggestion is working and saving every penny and consider coming to North America for your training. The school I attend has pilots from everywhere, including india, france, Britain. The cost is fair and The training as good as or better than most schools. It's in Canada. We have many small airports and aerodromes.

[sandbagsteve]

Mike, I only wish I knew as firmly as you do, at your age, what you want to do with your life... hell, I just passed 40 and only really got a firm grip on aviation in the past year.

It made me smile reading your original post. Anyone who has funded their own PPL at your age is obviously not shy of hard work - so please don't be discouraged by some of the comments. In my experience, the one thing younger people lack most is an aptitude for applying themselves in a way that will help then get to where they want to be. The worls is more complicated, so as someone else said - Network! By sticking your face briefly into every aviation company is probably not going to help much. You need to become a familiar sight to people for them to win hearts and minds. So, pick your fave spots, and frequent them more often... get to know the people... Take a genuine interest, don't just come across as the over-enthusiastic guy who wants to carry someone's toolbox - that just puts folks off.

I'm rambling... but don't give up... You sound very dedicated, and genuinely enthusiastic (you must be, a PPL is no small thing for someone on a limited budget). Good luck!

[foxmoth]

There doen't seem to be any help for young people like myself who want to get into aviation. If mummy and daddy have lots of money then you're sorted. But mine aren't. People only seem to be interested in (often) pointless and irrelevant qualifications and not passion and enthusiasm anymore.

I often wish I was born 50 years ago where a pilot could start out by sweeping hangars or cleaning aircraft.

Well Mike, you might think things are hard now, but 25 years ago I was in a very similar position to yourself with no rich parents to pay for things - and things are not really that different these days - I ended up driving a fork lift working a 7 day week, 13 hours a day most days, Saturday I would miss an hours work so I could actually get some flying in (Sundays was double time so not taking time off then), in those days you did not have the airlines taking on Cadets and putting low hour pilots straight onto Jets, you started flying something like an Aztec (No GPS in those days) on the hardest ops there were and worked your way up to Airlines via Turboprops. I am now an A330 Captain, but still instruct and fly for fun, it can be done, you just have to keep at it.

[Zulu Alpha]

Why not put an advert up at your local flying club(s) offering to wash and clean aircraft. You might get some takers. You might have to do it for very little money but if you get known for doing a careful, thorough and reliable job then the word will get around and there might also be some free flights.

Once you get known for being reliable then who knows what else you might get asked to do.

This should fit in with working at a hotel to pay the bills.

The biggest problem is deciding to do it!!

Good luck

ZA

[moonym20]

Mike, I also understand where your coming from, been there, done that.. almost still am (!)

The old phrase when there is a will there is a way springs to mind. Whats your rough location? as suggested, if your near an airport make a start there and try to find a job where at least your working alongside aviation. If your not near an airport then an airfield, you already have your license so you already know somewhere. Spend some spare time around there, help out and get to know people.

The people you meet and the knowledge you gain from both scenarios will help you further. More-so at an airport, at almost every FBO i go through there is always some young person there on their way towards doing their ATPL.

What sort of career in aviation do you want? if you want to fly the things then what sort of area of flying do you want to do? i.e. airline's, corporate, Military etc...

It takes a long time to crack into the industry it's no good people telling you it takes years to do but thats the truth. Don't loose sight of your goal, if people can see that you want it bad enough they will help

Good Luck!