Female ex-PPL hoping to get back in the skies
Hovering AND talking
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Most men I meet in flying treat me as a person who flies. That's all I ask.
Everyone (male or female, gay or straight, black, white, Irish, Methodist, lawyers, etc) I have met in aviation has treated me with respect and equality. Everyone. Of course, I'm not including someone who responds to a post on Pprune as "met".
DP, I don't see this as a matter of Political Correctness; gee, I'm one of the most un PC people going but a matter of relevance. It just wouldn't occur to me to mention it - some people may work it out from the way I write and what I write about. I do get addressed as a "bloke" on Pprune. Doesn't bother me in the slightest; water off a duck's back.
As for the original poster; I most certainly didn't interpret her post as meaning she was after male companionship (neither did I interpret it to mean she specifically wanted female companionship either!) but as demonstrating an insecurity, possibly lacking in confidence and therefore trying to use her sex as an explanation for how she felt. To me, that shows stereotyping as well.
Trouble is, not all women think in the same way; for example, much as Whirly and I are good friends , we each have quite different views about women in aviation which both stem from out personal experiences and outlook.
Some women would mention that they are female; others wouldn't. That's the trouble with individuals
We don't know whether the OP has inundated with PMs, has gone off in a sulk or is killing herself laughing at some of the reactions. Cheers
Whirls
The Original Whirly
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One flying school I knew tried to ensure the women students met up - perhaps so they could find 'flying buddies'. After the innuendo from some posters I can understand why! I've never thought twice about flying with 'sensible' men, but I can see that some grubby minded people will have thought the worst.
It's not even things like that. Flying with members of the opposite sex who you're not 'involved' with can sometimes make things so complicated. Let me tell you a couple of things which happened to me....
Way back, as a very new PPL, I used to fly regularly with Mike, who got his licence about the same time as I got mine. For the same money we could fly twice as far with half the work and twice the fun - great idea.
One day we flew from Welshpool to Blackpool, assuming the '30PROB' of thunderstorms wouldn't happen. It did...in spades! A line of thunderstorms from Liverpool to Leeds that stranded everyone, grounded airliners, and left Blackpool awash and full of people on their mobile phones sorting out their lives. A night in Blackpool. No big deal, you say. Except that a twin room was all that was available and Mike was horribly embarrassed at telling me - I didn't care, been there, done that. Except that he was married, and had told his mates at work who he was flying with that day and when he said he couldn't come in he was horribly teased. And I was sworn to secrecy if I ever met his wife!!! All no big deal in the real sense...but if you fly with a member of the same gender it doesn't happen! Move on a few months, and I'm flying to Cornwall for the total eclipse, with Chris (male). A camping trip, with another married man -wife didn't want to go and didn't mind. Naturally he assumed we'd take two tents...but aircraft weight and balance figures didn't agree! OK, I said, I promise not to attack you, now get rid of one tent! Again, no big deal - it was nearly the 21st century after all. But if Chris had been female it wouldn't have come up.
So these days, if I'm looking for a flying buddy and not a relationship, I tend to fly with other women.
And my good friend Whirlygig would probably say, "But it wasn't important, was it?" and she'd be quite right. I just find flying complicated enough that I prefer not to add to the complications, that's all.However, if any bloke wants a flying companion to go with them to Australia or anywhere else really exciting, please ignore all of the above.
I do hope that Albinoni hasn't been too upset by the smutty kids who posted earlier and will soon get her PPL renewed. If she's reading this, then all she will need to do is:
- NO exams
- Whatever refresher training she and her instructors recommend.
- Pass the SEP Class Rating renewal Licensing Skill Test (NOT the full PPL Skill Test)
- Pay the CAA half a king's ransom!
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If I had posted that I was a 34 year old man, based in Dublin, and looking for some flying friends, would anyone have thought that I'd given too much information away?
Give her a break
Give her a break
Hovering AND talking
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dp, depends on whether you want it to sound as if you should have placed a small ad in the personals!!!! 
GSOH required???
Cheers
Whirls
GSOH required???
Cheers
Whirls
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Well, my experience has been somewhere between the two.
Most men have treated me just as another pilot - and that's all I ask.
Why do I feel the need to ask? Because as I said before:-
Now and again I've met some twit who thinks I'm there for his benefit.
I've had them be rude to both my husband and me and sometimes pushed me to the point where I've had to be rude to them (doesn't make a nice atmosphere)!
Thank goodness it is only 1 in 100, but I can do without it.
Luckily, the vast majority of men I've met, and the instructors I've had, are like BEagle/dublinpilot/ShyTorque, etc. Nice, sensible and helpful.
Most men have treated me just as another pilot - and that's all I ask.
Why do I feel the need to ask? Because as I said before:-
Now and again I've met some twit who thinks I'm there for his benefit.
I've had them be rude to both my husband and me and sometimes pushed me to the point where I've had to be rude to them (doesn't make a nice atmosphere)!
Thank goodness it is only 1 in 100, but I can do without it.
Luckily, the vast majority of men I've met, and the instructors I've had, are like BEagle/dublinpilot/ShyTorque, etc. Nice, sensible and helpful.
Hovering AND talking
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The point I am trying to make is that it is not a man/woman issue but an issue to do with an individual's personality.
I've met some really ill-mannered people of both sexes, I've met people of both sexes with whom I did not get on, I've met some really kind, helpful people of both sexes and I've met bunny-boilers of both sexes.
I want to be treated as a pilot, not as a female pilot, as a pilot; consequently my gender doesn't come into it. My height might be an problem but then, I've met other short pilots and they've coped!
If someone treats me with arrogance, condescension or rudeness, I do not assume that that treatment has been meted out to me because of my gender or because of theirs but because they are ignorant feckwits and I'll rise above it!
Cheers
Whirls
I've met some really ill-mannered people of both sexes, I've met people of both sexes with whom I did not get on, I've met some really kind, helpful people of both sexes and I've met bunny-boilers of both sexes.
I want to be treated as a pilot, not as a female pilot, as a pilot; consequently my gender doesn't come into it. My height might be an problem but then, I've met other short pilots and they've coped!
If someone treats me with arrogance, condescension or rudeness, I do not assume that that treatment has been meted out to me because of my gender or because of theirs but because they are ignorant feckwits and I'll rise above it!
Cheers
Whirls
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Whirlygig - I don't like people making passes at me. It IS because of my gender, obviously. It was very rare, but I didn't like it. As an inexperienced pilot I found it very difficult to handle when all my mind was on flying.
It's the arrogance that a (very) few men have, that female pilots are there for their benefit which is so irritating.
Some of the comments on this forum would put off any prospective female student! When you are learning to fly, you can barely cope with this sort of thing.
It's the arrogance that a (very) few men have, that female pilots are there for their benefit which is so irritating.
Some of the comments on this forum would put off any prospective female student! When you are learning to fly, you can barely cope with this sort of thing.
The Original Whirly
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Viola,
I agree. Everyone has some tough times flying, and when that happens, passes, smutty comments and sexual innuendo can be just one thing too much, even though you'd cope with it normally - been there!
Albinoni,
If you're still reading, have you thought of joining the BWPA? Loads of members in the South-East, and I know several who'd love another woman to fly with. See www.bwpa.co.uk for more details.
Before anyone starts an argument on whether the BWPA should exist....
Women in aviation are in a minority - a mere 6% of PPLs. Minorities, whether due to sex, age, race, location, or anything else, sometimes feel isolated and would like to meet others of their own 'kind'. Only sometimes, Whirlygig; we're all different. The BWPA offers that opportunity, and thereby fills a need. When there are enough women flying, it'll probably quite naturally cease to exist.
I agree. Everyone has some tough times flying, and when that happens, passes, smutty comments and sexual innuendo can be just one thing too much, even though you'd cope with it normally - been there!
Albinoni,
If you're still reading, have you thought of joining the BWPA? Loads of members in the South-East, and I know several who'd love another woman to fly with. See www.bwpa.co.uk for more details.
Before anyone starts an argument on whether the BWPA should exist....
Women in aviation are in a minority - a mere 6% of PPLs. Minorities, whether due to sex, age, race, location, or anything else, sometimes feel isolated and would like to meet others of their own 'kind'. Only sometimes, Whirlygig; we're all different. The BWPA offers that opportunity, and thereby fills a need. When there are enough women flying, it'll probably quite naturally cease to exist.
Hovering AND talking
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Never had that in aviation (plenty of times in the real world); perhaps I'm incredibly thick-skinned and didn't notice or maybe not pretty enough.
Had a couple of lesbians make passes at me so it's not just men you know! Met a couple of very unpleasant and possessive wives who assumed that I must be after their husbands!!!
I disagree that some of the comments made would put off ANY female student; just some.
I am a member of BWPA and Whirly's right about minorities seeking their own sort. For female fixed wing pilots, I suggest it's a good organisation to join. However, I feel that my "minority" is as a helicopter pilot, not as woman, so personally it hasn't offered much for me.
Cheers
Whirls
Had a couple of lesbians make passes at me so it's not just men you know! Met a couple of very unpleasant and possessive wives who assumed that I must be after their husbands!!!
I disagree that some of the comments made would put off ANY female student; just some.
I am a member of BWPA and Whirly's right about minorities seeking their own sort. For female fixed wing pilots, I suggest it's a good organisation to join. However, I feel that my "minority" is as a helicopter pilot, not as woman, so personally it hasn't offered much for me.
Cheers
Whirls
The only times I refuse to treat women as equals are when I open doors for them or offer my seat on the train.
Is that still allowed these days? Or would it be construed as gender harassment?
Sorry, I can't help it. 'tis the way wot I was brung up!
By the way, BWPA would indeed be a good starting point for Albinoni to find a flying companion, I would suggest.
Is that still allowed these days? Or would it be construed as gender harassment?
Sorry, I can't help it. 'tis the way wot I was brung up!
By the way, BWPA would indeed be a good starting point for Albinoni to find a flying companion, I would suggest.
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If any female student made a pass at me she would be immediately banished from my student list.
Not that I wouldn't appreciate the gesture; it's just that she's obviously slipped through the medical net - her eyesight is clearly not up to aviation standards and she should not be left in charge of an aircraft.
Yours truly,
A fat, balding, middle-aged, non-PC Welsh git with warts, haltosis, no dress sense and the sex appeal of a chewed up bag of liquorice allsorts
Seriously though, I was attached for a while to a hyper-possessive, suspicious nutcase with a flash point of just above Absolute Zero who thought that I was knocking off every woman who came flying with me - to the extent that one Saturday afternoon she launched herself across the pub at this poor unsuspecting lass and proceeded to start battering seven sorts of shoite out of her! She is a thing of the past now and I make a point of being 100% open with my current ( blind ) partner.
Not that I wouldn't appreciate the gesture; it's just that she's obviously slipped through the medical net - her eyesight is clearly not up to aviation standards and she should not be left in charge of an aircraft.
Yours truly,
A fat, balding, middle-aged, non-PC Welsh git with warts, haltosis, no dress sense and the sex appeal of a chewed up bag of liquorice allsorts
Seriously though, I was attached for a while to a hyper-possessive, suspicious nutcase with a flash point of just above Absolute Zero who thought that I was knocking off every woman who came flying with me - to the extent that one Saturday afternoon she launched herself across the pub at this poor unsuspecting lass and proceeded to start battering seven sorts of shoite out of her! She is a thing of the past now and I make a point of being 100% open with my current ( blind
) partner.
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2close - there are irritating women too. How embarrassing for you! I hope you are very happy with your present partner who I am sure has very good eyesight and excellent taste.
BEagle - please feel free to open doors for me any time.
I don't expect it, but always appreciate it and always say thank you. No it isn't harrassment, it's nice old fashioned manners. My husband has them too!
I work with a lot of young people (late teens and early 20's) and you'd be surprised how many young men open doors for me (and for others).
BEagle - please feel free to open doors for me any time.
I don't expect it, but always appreciate it and always say thank you. No it isn't harrassment, it's nice old fashioned manners. My husband has them too!I work with a lot of young people (late teens and early 20's) and you'd be surprised how many young men open doors for me (and for others).
Viola, I'm glad that manners haven't been banished by the militant feminists ('wimmin') who perceive them as gender harrassment!
I was on a packed 1GW
train the other day and a young lady was forced to stand in the aisle. Numerous ill-mannered yoof just stuck their infernal iPod ear plugs in and ignored her.
Difficult to express this in a polite manner, but let's just say that gentlemen should appreciate that human biology can make such things uncomfortable for women at certain times. I was, to be honest, outraged that a lady should have to stand whilst other passengers had seats.
So I offered her my seat. Now, having obtained my PPL in 1968 before I passed my driving test, I'm hardly an iPod digi-yoof, so she was politely reluctant to accept the offer, probably thinking that perhaps I needed the seat rather more than she did. But my little white lie helped - "No, it's OK - I'd sooner get some fresh air in the gangway as it's a bit stuffy in the carriage"....
Why are people so appallingly rude these days? I detest travelling on trains and tubes, but rarely see people affording the courtesy to the fair sex which gentlemen were always taught when I was at school.
Back to the thread - let's hope that Albinoni hasn't been put off by stupid kids and will find the motivation to come back to PPL flying soon!
I was on a packed 1GW
train the other day and a young lady was forced to stand in the aisle. Numerous ill-mannered yoof just stuck their infernal iPod ear plugs in and ignored her.Difficult to express this in a polite manner, but let's just say that gentlemen should appreciate that human biology can make such things uncomfortable for women at certain times. I was, to be honest, outraged that a lady should have to stand whilst other passengers had seats.
So I offered her my seat. Now, having obtained my PPL in 1968 before I passed my driving test, I'm hardly an iPod digi-yoof, so she was politely reluctant to accept the offer, probably thinking that perhaps I needed the seat rather more than she did. But my little white lie helped - "No, it's OK - I'd sooner get some fresh air in the gangway as it's a bit stuffy in the carriage"....
Why are people so appallingly rude these days? I detest travelling on trains and tubes, but rarely see people affording the courtesy to the fair sex which gentlemen were always taught when I was at school.
Back to the thread - let's hope that Albinoni hasn't been put off by stupid kids and will find the motivation to come back to PPL flying soon!
Hovering AND talking
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Just to add further oil to the fire .... I've found that manners and courtesy are not so much a male/female thing or even a youth/age thing but a town/country thing.
Similarly, I hope threats and jests of sexual harrassment and innuendo haven't put off the OP either!
Cheers
Whirls
Similarly, I hope threats and jests of sexual harrassment and innuendo haven't put off the OP either!
Cheers
Whirls
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Some people are pillocks, some people are arrogant, some people are patronizing. It has nothing to do with the sex of the person whom they are addressing so I don't think that's relevant either - they're probably like that all the time!!!
Viola, I'm glad that manners haven't been banished by the militant feminists ('wimmin') who perceive them as gender harrassment!
Anyway, just to prove that "Carry On" scriptwriting is alive and well and living in Whirly's house :-
OK, I said, I promise not to attack you, now get rid of one tent! Again, no big deal - it was nearly the 21st century after all. But if Chris had been female it wouldn't have come up.
OK, OK, I know, that's just the sort of smut you were talking about. Hat (schoolcap?), coat (blazer?), bag (satchel?) etc ...
The Original Whirly
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FullyFlapped,
No, that's my jokey way of talking to a mate when we have something to sort out! And it bears no realtion to anything I was talking about - have you actually been reading anything I've written? I believe in calling a spade a spade, and if I have to share a room/tent with a man, making it clear that we're sharing a room but not a bed, if that's the case. It makes life easier for all concerned. But like I said, it's so much easier to travel with someone of the same gender so that it doesn't come up - and yes, I have Lesbian friends, but it never comes up, since in this world you're assumed heterosexual till proved otherwise.
Now you can get your coat.
BEagle,
Men giving up seats for women etc etc. Never understood it, never will. But it's hardly a big deal, unless it's insisted upon or done in an impolite fashion ( You WILL let me walk on the outside, and I'll shove you uncomfortably to the other side every time we turn a corner to prove to you that I'm a REAL gentleman. Been done, honest) If you want to do that sort of thing, feel free, doesn't bother me one way or the other. Simply a strange old-fashioned British custom, but harmless, IMHO. But anybody giving up a seat to someone who needs it more is a good thing, as is any kind of politeness and consideration. I can't see that applies to women unless they're very old or pregnant or ill...but you know what you were talking about, even if I don't.
However, please don't always blame the yoof of today. A friend of mine, in her 60s, was knocked off her bike by an elderly man who wasn't looking where he was going. She was quite badly hurt. He just walked off, and no-one stopped him. If it had been a young person, can you imagine the outcry?
No, that's my jokey way of talking to a mate when we have something to sort out! And it bears no realtion to anything I was talking about - have you actually been reading anything I've written?
I believe in calling a spade a spade, and if I have to share a room/tent with a man, making it clear that we're sharing a room but not a bed, if that's the case. It makes life easier for all concerned. But like I said, it's so much easier to travel with someone of the same gender so that it doesn't come up - and yes, I have Lesbian friends, but it never comes up, since in this world you're assumed heterosexual till proved otherwise.Now you can get your coat.
BEagle,
Men giving up seats for women etc etc. Never understood it, never will. But it's hardly a big deal, unless it's insisted upon or done in an impolite fashion ( You WILL let me walk on the outside, and I'll shove you uncomfortably to the other side every time we turn a corner to prove to you that I'm a REAL gentleman. Been done, honest
) If you want to do that sort of thing, feel free, doesn't bother me one way or the other. Simply a strange old-fashioned British custom, but harmless, IMHO. But anybody giving up a seat to someone who needs it more is a good thing, as is any kind of politeness and consideration. I can't see that applies to women unless they're very old or pregnant or ill...but you know what you were talking about, even if I don't. However, please don't always blame the yoof of today. A friend of mine, in her 60s, was knocked off her bike by an elderly man who wasn't looking where he was going. She was quite badly hurt. He just walked off, and no-one stopped him. If it had been a young person, can you imagine the outcry?
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As another female flyer, I was going to start a new thread on here asking advice regarding a particular subject matter. However, the attitude of most people that have posted has entirely put me off doing so. This lady is simply looking to find some new flying friends - end of detail. I am amazed at how unpleasent and rude some people have been which is why I am not going to place my post.
Albinoni, I am from Biggin too so please feel free to PM me - I have PM'd you !!
Albinoni, I am from Biggin too so please feel free to PM me - I have PM'd you !!
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Speaking of lady pilots...
...Where's G-EMMA these days ? Not seen her for a while. She stopped posting, then started again on solo, then stopped again.
I think some of the people on here are a bit over sensitive about some of the comments. There's some assholes posting, but there again, if you post about anything on pprune there's going to be some toss pot try and shout you down about something.
Why would the "I'm a 50yo woman looking for a flying partner" thread be any different ?
As soon as you post on pprune it's flame suit on, liberal use of the ignore button, and the hope that 1 in 5 posts may be worth reading....
I think some of the people on here are a bit over sensitive about some of the comments. There's some assholes posting, but there again, if you post about anything on pprune there's going to be some toss pot try and shout you down about something.
Why would the "I'm a 50yo woman looking for a flying partner" thread be any different ?
As soon as you post on pprune it's flame suit on, liberal use of the ignore button, and the hope that 1 in 5 posts may be worth reading....