BA delays at LHR - Computer issue
Paxing All Over The World
ve3id
Here's the promise by Cruz to tell you what happened:
BA flights grounded: Apologetic CEO Alex Cruz denies catastrophic computer failure was caused by job cuts | The Independent
So download that article and other reports of the same statement. because, then, if he does not - we'll really know the truth.
Unfortunately, he can't say, 'The IT systems were like that when I took the job and I was told everything was fine.' Not least because that pushes it all onto Walsh & Co sitting round that big fat trough.
The Board can't fire him - because then he might tell the truth! Happily, this is so huge that BA cannot get away without very serious, long term damage and that will drive them up or out.
Here's the promise by Cruz to tell you what happened:
“We will have completed an exhaustive investigation on exactly the reasons of why this happened,” Mr Cruz said. “We will, of course, share those conclusions once we have actually finished them."
So download that article and other reports of the same statement. because, then, if he does not - we'll really know the truth.
Unfortunately, he can't say, 'The IT systems were like that when I took the job and I was told everything was fine.' Not least because that pushes it all onto Walsh & Co sitting round that big fat trough.
The Board can't fire him - because then he might tell the truth! Happily, this is so huge that BA cannot get away without very serious, long term damage and that will drive them up or out.
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I've never really understood this IT-reporting-to-CFO thing, certainly not this century.
And even less so in the case of an airline, where the business is a seat pricing algorithm and the IT system that supports it.
(Actually running the aeroplanes is optional, you can subcontract, or rent them in, after all.)
And even less so in the case of an airline, where the business is a seat pricing algorithm and the IT system that supports it.
(Actually running the aeroplanes is optional, you can subcontract, or rent them in, after all.)
Despite the dependence upon IT for flight, airlines have adopted executive bonus structures based on pre-tax income and cost savings rather than on-time performance, baggage issues, and consumer complaints. Was UAL really hurt by the punching bag incident? Probably not in the long run because SLF are a commodity also. Will BA be hurt with this disruption? Again, probably not just as Delta, Southwest, UAL (twice), et. al. haven't been hurt by IT outages even if the hit costs $100M short term. Not likely to see a resurgence of ocean liners take their place. Oh, customer service? Another cost that can be cut. Out-sourcing crews? Yup - any cost is on the table if it can be cut.
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Was UAL really hurt by the punching bag incident? Probably not in the long run because SLF are a commodity also.
There are many good reasons having a CIO report to the CFO, depending on the industry, company size & maturity, other org structures, etc. One size does not fit all.
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Yes, our whole species is undergoing this new philosophy. And is failing, but nobody notices ... what people notice are the promises of extreme savings and extreme profits.
At the same time the lack of challenge in our society is creating a new level of incompetence. Not only is there incompetence, but nobody really cares. Conscience is a long way away.
Does anyone have a goal except mortgage payments and facebook?
Without a goal there is no reason to do any more than this.
Why did Victorian engineers build so well ?
What was inside them that is not inside this generation ?
Quite a lot, methinks.
At the same time the lack of challenge in our society is creating a new level of incompetence. Not only is there incompetence, but nobody really cares. Conscience is a long way away.
Does anyone have a goal except mortgage payments and facebook?
Without a goal there is no reason to do any more than this.
Why did Victorian engineers build so well ?
What was inside them that is not inside this generation ?
Quite a lot, methinks.
Freehills:
Same should happen to ****ty companies like BA. The goal of management and the Board when I studied for my MBA was "maximise the value of the business in the long term". Short term thinking (bonus grubbing) was to be eschewed.
Survivorship bias. We think Victorian engineers built well, because the stuff that still stands was obviously built well. The ****ty back to backs, bridges etc. that fell down or needed to be replaced, you don't see anymore.
Among other criticisms levelled at BA in the article are that they threatened to leave passengers stranded even though empty seats to their destination were available, unless they paid for an upgrade, refused to rebook pax on other airlines with capacity, and that they failed to adequately publicise alternatives to the premium-rate number that passengers were using to contact them.
As of last night, some 25,000 people had still been unable to travel.
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BA statement this morning
"Our IT systems are now back up and running and we will be operating a full flight schedule at Heathrow and Gatwick on Tuesday 30 May."
"Our IT systems are now back up and running and we will be operating a full flight schedule at Heathrow and Gatwick on Tuesday 30 May."
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Would I be correct in thinking the same system integrity applies to the IT support and infrastructure on the service maintenance and spares side of the airline ?
If so would a repetition of this debacle render the fleet uncertified at least in the short term?
Thanks for your time and trouble
David
If so would a repetition of this debacle render the fleet uncertified at least in the short term?
Thanks for your time and trouble
David
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Hi...I'm the Transport Correspondent at the BBC. Could we have a quick chat about your post...looking for some expertise. [email protected]
The Times today quotes the energy companies as saying there were no power supply issues in the area.
Among other criticisms levelled at BA in the article are that they threatened to leave passengers stranded even though empty seats to their destination were available, unless they paid for an upgrade, refused to rebook pax on other airlines with capacity, and that they failed to adequately publicise alternatives to the premium-rate number that passengers were using to contact them.
As of last night, some 25,000 people had still been unable to travel.
Among other criticisms levelled at BA in the article are that they threatened to leave passengers stranded even though empty seats to their destination were available, unless they paid for an upgrade, refused to rebook pax on other airlines with capacity, and that they failed to adequately publicise alternatives to the premium-rate number that passengers were using to contact them.
As of last night, some 25,000 people had still been unable to travel.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...cts/contact-us
0344 numbers are not premium rate, and will be inclusive in call bundles.
Can the Times accusation be taken to imply that the airline staff were giving out an 0844 number, or are such numbers printed on the tickets or associated material, or were some people just not doing very well at looking up the website?
I think it's more a case of staff failing to draw passengers' attention to the fact than an 0800 number had been set up to handle rebooking and information calls.
I assumed that if the Times is talking about 55 pence a minute, they mean premium rate, probably 0844, though I suppose some people can have a high charge for ordinary numbers if they run out of bundle minutes.
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If summary of the Times article by David is correct, BA need to be taken to the cleaners by its former customers. The saying "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging" applies here. Rapaciousness and sheer greed are running rampant through too many departments of this company. Even though they were unable to deliver the service purchased by their customers, they still want to make a few extra quid out of this debacle. As ever, BA employees on the front line will face the wrath of passengers while the "suits" will be miles away working out when to buy and sell their shares and planning how to spend their well earned bonuses.
PM
ps. How hard was BA's customer handling system working that day? Was it running at close to or beyond its transactional limit? If it was close to its limit, the merest problem will tip you into the void. Maybe they should learn from their aicraft. Their twin engined aircraft always have more than 50% spare capacity and their four engined aircraft always have a spare third. And their IT systems have how much spare capacity?
PM
ps. How hard was BA's customer handling system working that day? Was it running at close to or beyond its transactional limit? If it was close to its limit, the merest problem will tip you into the void. Maybe they should learn from their aicraft. Their twin engined aircraft always have more than 50% spare capacity and their four engined aircraft always have a spare third. And their IT systems have how much spare capacity?
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Thus if BA check-in or baggage goes down at least the supervisor should have a working screen derived for a different server/network on which management can issue messages to staff who can relay it to the public in the terminals with PA or whiteboards. Thus the 0800 number can be disseminated along with "sit there because we can't check in anyone for a while". And the BA.com site could be redirected to a completely different site outside the BA server cluster that gave simple messages like the 0800 number, rather than just showing a 404 error message.
Last edited by fchan; 30th May 2017 at 11:39.
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I can’t now find it here but someone mentioned the BA problem as possibly a network router one. I was involved in a high integrity centre where part of it crashed despite its very high integrity on paper and very competent engineering team.
It wasn’t due to servers, main software or power but something that affected both main and standby routers. Although there had been the odd glitch on these in service everyone thought it was insignificant as it quickly recovered until that day. Ultimately no one could replicate the problem off line and so the real cause was never really discovered. The only solution was to replace the routers with a different type.
It wasn’t due to servers, main software or power but something that affected both main and standby routers. Although there had been the odd glitch on these in service everyone thought it was insignificant as it quickly recovered until that day. Ultimately no one could replicate the problem off line and so the real cause was never really discovered. The only solution was to replace the routers with a different type.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...gers-jqgj69hlz
It may need a subscription to read it though. Two pages a week free for me.
Now I've looked closer, I see that they assert a 0344 number is costing some people 55p a minute. It would be in minute bundles. The cheapest pay as you go rates start at 3p.
An excerpt:
He told of two women whose flights to Tel Aviv were cancelled on Saturday, with a replacement failing to take off on Sunday. They were understood to have been given seats on a flight tomorrow but only if they paid £800 each to upgrade to premium economy — the only space available.
Confusion also surrounded passengers who had to travel with other airlines, with BA saying that booking “via different carriers would be at your own expense and would have to be claimed back through travel insurance”.
Hmmm, I can recall that when one or other cross-Channel ferry companies or the tunnel have had issues, it has been convention that they put people on rival operators at no extra charge.
Thus for instance years ago one time I turned up for Sally Line at Ramsgate and was sent to Dover to catch P&O or Stena. Another time, dock strike at Calais, so tickets valid on the tunnel.
Why doesn't this apply to airlines?
And if someone does rely on their insurers to pay for a replacement flight, will the insurers launch a claim against BA? Why should travel insurance designed more for unforeseeable issues such as the operator ceasing to trade be used to soak up this cost? Will premiums rise in future if you declare BA as provider?
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One thing I can’t understand in this scenario is that it was reported that everything went down for hours last Friday, even PA in Terminal 5. That may not be true. Surely a good IT architecture is one like most ATC where flight data, voice, radar, planning etc. are on separate servers and networks. Thus if one server and its backup goes down you have some picture of what is happening from the others. It may not enable full ops but you have some capability.
Thus if BA check-in or baggage goes down at least the supervisor should have a working screen derived for a different server/network on which management can issue messages to staff who can relay it to the public in the terminals with PA or whiteboards. Thus the 0800 number can be disseminated along with "sit there because we can't check in anyone for a while". And the BA.com site could be redirected to a completely different site outside the BA server cluster that gave simple messages like the 0800 number, rather than just showing 404 error message.
Thus if BA check-in or baggage goes down at least the supervisor should have a working screen derived for a different server/network on which management can issue messages to staff who can relay it to the public in the terminals with PA or whiteboards. Thus the 0800 number can be disseminated along with "sit there because we can't check in anyone for a while". And the BA.com site could be redirected to a completely different site outside the BA server cluster that gave simple messages like the 0800 number, rather than just showing 404 error message.
It may be that someone has unthinkingly created a single point of failure by changing something while not (fully) understanding the interconnections and interfaces between the interworking subsystems. Or perhaps the problem has always been there in some common code library and when a value that could never possibly be exceeded was exceeded everything using that library went down, with subsystems trying to failover to each other. One problem with pure replication to provide fault tolerance is that it only gives hardware fault tolerance. An input that breaks one replicated system's software can break them all
Seen that happen and still people create systems like it.
Confusion also surrounded passengers who had to travel with other airlines, with BA saying that booking “via different carriers would be at your own expense and would have to be claimed back through travel insurance”.
Hmmm, I can recall that when one or other cross-Channel ferry companies or the tunnel have had issues, it has been convention that they put people on rival operators at no extra charge.
Thus for instance years ago one time I turned up for Sally Line at Ramsgate and was sent to Dover to catch P&O or Stena. Another time, dock strike at Calais, so tickets valid on the tunnel.
Why doesn't this apply to airlines?
It does apply to airlines.
If the airline makes the decision to transfer passengers to another operator then the airline pays, I've certainly known it happen at BA if for example an aircraft goes "tech". Sounds similar to the ferry situation you describe.
If OTOH a passengers decide that rather than waiting for the original airline come up with a reasonable solution that resolves the problem ( e.g. put them on a later flight) they'd rather make alternative arrangements with another operator I suspect legally the situation is different - though I fully understand why there might be good and understable reasons for passengers taking that course of action.