BA response time to complaint?
Paxing All Over The World
This is thread drift in that it does not discuss airlines but I think it relevant to our discussion about midern mgmt.
On Saturday I came across another example of mgmt by numbers - rather than by what is actually happing at the 'coal face'.
A private hospital. Saturdays are sometimes quiet and sometimes busy, depending on what list of operations are to be performed and how many patients are in for the weekend. So the mgmt often drop one of the junior ward staff from a Saturday to save money. This often leads to the rest running very much faster in order to keep the standard of care where they want it to be.
So far, so very ordinary. Mgmt get patted on the back for saving money and the staff work harder and resent the mgmt a little bit more.
Last Saturday, the mgmt (on Friday) looked at the list and decreed that one person should be dropped. But that person did not get their message and turned up on Saturday and worked as per their rota. Which was just as well because the patients they did have were complex and two needed very close attention. Even with the full compliment of staff - they were rushed off their feet.
The nursing staff are waiting for the calamity and desperatly hoping that they can see it in time before one of their patients is in crisis.
It will not surprise you to learn that this hospital was part of a group taken over last year and, since then:
This example could be any major corporation selling furniture or airline seats or hospital treatment. The point in common is that the business is preventing it's staff from giving of their best and - when something goes wrong - it will be their fault. So they leave. This pushes up the costs again but mgmt can easily brush that under the table.
When the inevitable happens? "We have instigated a full inquiry to ensure that this does not ahppen again, our thoughts are with the ..." So flippin' predictable.
On Saturday I came across another example of mgmt by numbers - rather than by what is actually happing at the 'coal face'.
A private hospital. Saturdays are sometimes quiet and sometimes busy, depending on what list of operations are to be performed and how many patients are in for the weekend. So the mgmt often drop one of the junior ward staff from a Saturday to save money. This often leads to the rest running very much faster in order to keep the standard of care where they want it to be.
So far, so very ordinary. Mgmt get patted on the back for saving money and the staff work harder and resent the mgmt a little bit more.
Last Saturday, the mgmt (on Friday) looked at the list and decreed that one person should be dropped. But that person did not get their message and turned up on Saturday and worked as per their rota. Which was just as well because the patients they did have were complex and two needed very close attention. Even with the full compliment of staff - they were rushed off their feet.
The nursing staff are waiting for the calamity and desperatly hoping that they can see it in time before one of their patients is in crisis.
It will not surprise you to learn that this hospital was part of a group taken over last year and, since then:
- Many 'cost savings' have been put in place.
- Many new procedures that appear to safeguard process' but can delay staff in getting access to test results or other aspects of care. Highly competent nursing staff of 25+ years experience having to be trained how to use computers to log work and tests, so as to save having secretarial support. Mgmt save staff (well done, have a bonus)
- Experienced staff sent on training courses to tick boxes but telling them things they already know - rather than teaching them new things.
This example could be any major corporation selling furniture or airline seats or hospital treatment. The point in common is that the business is preventing it's staff from giving of their best and - when something goes wrong - it will be their fault. So they leave. This pushes up the costs again but mgmt can easily brush that under the table.
When the inevitable happens? "We have instigated a full inquiry to ensure that this does not ahppen again, our thoughts are with the ..." So flippin' predictable.
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Should you Fly British Airways?
I should have arrived at the airport three hours early for my British Airways flight to Verona however when I got to Victoria station to take a 35 minute train to Gatwick airport, a water main had just exploded and flooded all the train tracks. I quickly jumped on another train going to East Croyden where I then got a replacement bus service to the airport. I could have still made my flight but 2 miles outside the airport the traffic completely stopped. When I finally got into the airport I had 20 minutes before my flight, but British Airways wouldn’t let me fly, which is understandable enough.
But the understanding stops there. British Airways then charged me a hefty £60 to change my flight to the next day. Hundreds of people missed their flight because of the transportation problems that was no fault of their own, but British Airways charged them all £60 to transfer their flight to the next day. However other airlines were a lot more understanding, like Easy Jet, which didn’t charge their customers anything.
I asked British airways, who are always advertising how much they understand their customers and care for them, where did they get the arbitrary charge of £60, why did they have to charge so much, and why did other airlines like Easy Jet not charge their customers anything? They wrote back in a cold robotic way and basically told me to piss off.
British Airways definitely made a lot of money that day. And I actually originally paid £20 more to fly with them because I bought into their brand and thought they were more reliable and understanding. But from my experience, and other people I have talked to since then about their negative experience with British Airways, I think those days are over and I think they need to change their brand song from the Flower Duet to John Lee Hookers ‘I need money’ song. At least I’m giving my money to Easy Jet next time.
But the understanding stops there. British Airways then charged me a hefty £60 to change my flight to the next day. Hundreds of people missed their flight because of the transportation problems that was no fault of their own, but British Airways charged them all £60 to transfer their flight to the next day. However other airlines were a lot more understanding, like Easy Jet, which didn’t charge their customers anything.
I asked British airways, who are always advertising how much they understand their customers and care for them, where did they get the arbitrary charge of £60, why did they have to charge so much, and why did other airlines like Easy Jet not charge their customers anything? They wrote back in a cold robotic way and basically told me to piss off.
British Airways definitely made a lot of money that day. And I actually originally paid £20 more to fly with them because I bought into their brand and thought they were more reliable and understanding. But from my experience, and other people I have talked to since then about their negative experience with British Airways, I think those days are over and I think they need to change their brand song from the Flower Duet to John Lee Hookers ‘I need money’ song. At least I’m giving my money to Easy Jet next time.
Paxing All Over The World
Hi, sgainford, and welcome aboard! You will find this cabin flies in all weathers although, sometimes, the bad weather is inside the cabin. 
Your story is an excellant one given the main topic of the week, do read the whole of the BA new advert thread (with the various links in the postings) because you have just proved in one short post that 'to fly to serve' is just marketing jazz. If they had taken the action against one lone pax? Sure. If a significant group of pax fell into the same black traffic hole? THAT'S when the legacy airline has the power and clout to win serious positive reviews but EZY showed that they have it now. I have been a fan of EZY since day one and they are my first choice (pun intended!) for short haul.
Earlier in this thread, we discussed the inability of Waterside (BA's castle) to follow social media and see when something has gone wrong. They still could - on your specific problem - write to all the pax involved. "Dear pax, when you arrived late at LGW, you will understand that we had to implement our usual rules. However, we can now see that n [they know exactly how many] people were in the same situation. Accordingly, we are refunding the surcharge and hope to see you with us again soon."
That, and the problem of the original poster (op) (astir8), would cost much less than a quarter of one second of their silly TV advert and do far more good.
Your story is an excellant one given the main topic of the week, do read the whole of the BA new advert thread (with the various links in the postings) because you have just proved in one short post that 'to fly to serve' is just marketing jazz. If they had taken the action against one lone pax? Sure. If a significant group of pax fell into the same black traffic hole? THAT'S when the legacy airline has the power and clout to win serious positive reviews but EZY showed that they have it now. I have been a fan of EZY since day one and they are my first choice (pun intended!) for short haul.
Earlier in this thread, we discussed the inability of Waterside (BA's castle) to follow social media and see when something has gone wrong. They still could - on your specific problem - write to all the pax involved. "Dear pax, when you arrived late at LGW, you will understand that we had to implement our usual rules. However, we can now see that n [they know exactly how many] people were in the same situation. Accordingly, we are refunding the surcharge and hope to see you with us again soon."
That, and the problem of the original poster (op) (astir8), would cost much less than a quarter of one second of their silly TV advert and do far more good.
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Don't we need just a bit more evidence and/or proof before we accept the contents of that rant as being absolute fact? I'm willing to bet that the circumstances are slightly more complicated than stated, for all parties involved.
BA don't appear to have done anything illegal - they appear to have applied the precise terms and conditions of the contract. This behaviour is not viewed as being caring or understanding, in part because it doesn't provide a result that sgainford wants or likes - In younger people, this is known as a tantrum. The BA decision to apply the charges may, or may not (and it is arguable) have been a sound business decision: The market will find them out in the end, as it always does, and is surely doing so when sgainford decides to take future business elsewhere.
I think that sgainford had a tough break, and deserves our sympathy: I'm sure that it was maddening and that we would all be equally cross. At the same time, I would need to be certain that the problem doesn't become a case of "...everybody else's fault but mine".
BA don't appear to have done anything illegal - they appear to have applied the precise terms and conditions of the contract. This behaviour is not viewed as being caring or understanding, in part because it doesn't provide a result that sgainford wants or likes - In younger people, this is known as a tantrum. The BA decision to apply the charges may, or may not (and it is arguable) have been a sound business decision: The market will find them out in the end, as it always does, and is surely doing so when sgainford decides to take future business elsewhere.
I think that sgainford had a tough break, and deserves our sympathy: I'm sure that it was maddening and that we would all be equally cross. At the same time, I would need to be certain that the problem doesn't become a case of "...everybody else's fault but mine".
BA are losing money, Easyjet are making it.
So BA try to compete on price with people who have a lower cost base than they do. They lose even more money.
They then reduce service standards to try and cut the losses. People spot that BA is now offering less than the competition,and see no reason to fly BA.
BA should then go out of business - and if it weren't for LHR they would have done.
BAs only hope is to justify premium pricing by offering a premium service - which they are no longer doing. Every story like this is another nail in the coffin.
So BA try to compete on price with people who have a lower cost base than they do. They lose even more money.
They then reduce service standards to try and cut the losses. People spot that BA is now offering less than the competition,and see no reason to fly BA.
BA should then go out of business - and if it weren't for LHR they would have done.
BAs only hope is to justify premium pricing by offering a premium service - which they are no longer doing. Every story like this is another nail in the coffin.
I think that sgainford had a tough break, and deserves our sympathy: I'm sure that it was maddening and that we would all be equally cross. At the same time, I would need to be certain that the problem doesn't become a case of "...everybody else's fault but mine".
sgainford can hardly be responsible for failures in the public transport taking him/her to the airport, therefore it would appear that it was a case of "...everybody else's fault but mine".
Yes, BA are within their legal rights to make the charge. Was it a wise decision given the circumstances? I would not have thought so.
Planemike
Within their legal rights? Definitely. Way to get repeat business? NO!
And only a set of useless dimwits with no idea of what customers can do when choosing an airline would do it.
Many, many years ago, when company directors flew First Class in our company, BA did something similar on a F class flight to Hong Kong to the sales and marketing guy. The result was that they lost his business - usually 2 F class a year to the Far East, 4 F class to California and one F class to Sydney. Figure how much they lost by being silly and mean! Plus his sales guys no longer flew BA.
And only a set of useless dimwits with no idea of what customers can do when choosing an airline would do it.
Many, many years ago, when company directors flew First Class in our company, BA did something similar on a F class flight to Hong Kong to the sales and marketing guy. The result was that they lost his business - usually 2 F class a year to the Far East, 4 F class to California and one F class to Sydney. Figure how much they lost by being silly and mean! Plus his sales guys no longer flew BA.
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I think I understand..it was BA's fault that the railway line was flooded and so they have to waive their costs (however unreasonable the £60 is) to rebook people on a different flight for something that was completely in their control.
I think I understand..it was BA's fault that the railway line was flooded and so they have to waive their costs (however unreasonable the £60 is) to rebook people on a different flight for something that was completely in their control
No, you dont understand PF, it was not BA's fault that the railway line was flooded (they operate aircraft, not trains) but neither was it the fault of the hapless passengers: somebody else may have been at fault or it could have "just been one of those things", today somebody always has to be blamed. Just seems to be a "jobsworth" attitude sticking to the letter of the law in such circumstances.
By being seen to "help out" I am sure Easyjet will have picked up some "Brownie points" with more than a few passengers/customers.
Planemike
Last edited by Planemike; 29th Sep 2011 at 11:08.
Paxing All Over The World
In my humble line of self-employment (a joy to no longer work for a multi-national!) I often have to give more time (i.e. money) and other things to my clients. Just today, I had a client say, "I didn't expect you to spend so much time on this." That is because I work on a flat fee per commission. The more time I put into it - the less money I make. On paper. One of the ways I know I am doing soemthing right is the level of repeat business that I get and the times that clients will even wait for me to come back from holiday. (If you knew my business, you would find out how VERY unusual that is, though I say it myself)
I have worked in service industries all my working life, some 34 years. Before that, I worked behind the counter at a department store on Saturdays and holidays for my last couple of years of schooling. So I am predisposed to the old adage, "look after the customer - and the customer will look after you." I know that is not always the case, of course. Nowadays many people will just push each and every supplier to deliver the most (which is given in the hope of more business) and then they shove off to the next supplier and pull the same trick again. I've had it happen to me when I was a telecomms consultant.
BUT, overall, customers prefer to stay with one brand. Since the last recession, many companies in the Western world have focused ONLY on the bottom line. Understandable but that's not what doing business with humans is all about.
I have worked in service industries all my working life, some 34 years. Before that, I worked behind the counter at a department store on Saturdays and holidays for my last couple of years of schooling. So I am predisposed to the old adage, "look after the customer - and the customer will look after you." I know that is not always the case, of course. Nowadays many people will just push each and every supplier to deliver the most (which is given in the hope of more business) and then they shove off to the next supplier and pull the same trick again. I've had it happen to me when I was a telecomms consultant.
BUT, overall, customers prefer to stay with one brand. Since the last recession, many companies in the Western world have focused ONLY on the bottom line. Understandable but that's not what doing business with humans is all about.
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Well folks
The Much Beloved just had a phone call from BA offering the 400 Euros compensation. No more expenses. But she's accepted.
Not quite from their cold dead hands, but close! And "on this occasion only"
A fair result - eventually!! Thanks for all the help PProoners!
The Much Beloved just had a phone call from BA offering the 400 Euros compensation. No more expenses. But she's accepted.
Not quite from their cold dead hands, but close! And "on this occasion only"
A fair result - eventually!! Thanks for all the help PProoners!
Congratulations astir 8 as long as you're both happy. Six pages on pprune and this thread will finally come to an end. It's probably been one of the longest in pprune's experience regarding a claim. So we will all wait in anticipation for the next BA complaint to be shared with us.
I wonder how much notice BA took of all the comments on here, and whether it swayed any decision making. The one thing I've learn't about this thread is all the invaluable advice that has been given. Beats the 'no win no fee' brigade anytime.
I wonder how much notice BA took of all the comments on here, and whether it swayed any decision making. The one thing I've learn't about this thread is all the invaluable advice that has been given. Beats the 'no win no fee' brigade anytime.
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So we will all wait in anticipation for the next BA complaint to be shared with us.
Paxing All Over The World
Whilst on the subject of companies that don't understand customers ...
Australian fashion chain issues jaw-dropping response to customer complaint
It's worth reading because the last paragraph from the company, replying to the customer complaint is:
So if you would like to do us any favours, please do not waste our retail staff's time, because as you have already seen, they will not tolerate it. I am sure there are plenty of shops that appease your taste, so I respectfully ask that you side step our store during future window shopping expeditions.
Australian fashion chain issues jaw-dropping response to customer complaint - Yahoo! Lifestyle UK
You gotta love the Internet!!
Australian fashion chain issues jaw-dropping response to customer complaint
It's worth reading because the last paragraph from the company, replying to the customer complaint is:
So if you would like to do us any favours, please do not waste our retail staff's time, because as you have already seen, they will not tolerate it. I am sure there are plenty of shops that appease your taste, so I respectfully ask that you side step our store during future window shopping expeditions.
Australian fashion chain issues jaw-dropping response to customer complaint - Yahoo! Lifestyle UK
You gotta love the Internet!!
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Crewmeal
Re whether BA have taken any note of this thread.
At the advice of a fellow prooner I started a parallel thread on "Flyertalk" - in the British Airways Executive Club section. Something like 8500 reads and over 100 posts, with virtually 100% anti-BA sentiments voiced.
Allegedly the "Flyertalk" BA section is monitored by BA. In which case they've happily watched themselves being lambasted by their own exec club members for over a month. Errrr????
Anyhow, once the cheque shows up and is in the bank, we must write a letter of thanks to that nice man in BA "Customer Relations" who started all this.
Re whether BA have taken any note of this thread.
At the advice of a fellow prooner I started a parallel thread on "Flyertalk" - in the British Airways Executive Club section. Something like 8500 reads and over 100 posts, with virtually 100% anti-BA sentiments voiced.
Allegedly the "Flyertalk" BA section is monitored by BA. In which case they've happily watched themselves being lambasted by their own exec club members for over a month. Errrr????
Anyhow, once the cheque shows up and is in the bank, we must write a letter of thanks to that nice man in BA "Customer Relations" who started all this.
but neither was it the fault of the hapless passengers: somebody else may have been at fault or it could have "just been one of those things", today somebody always has to be blamed. Just seems to be a "jobsworth" attitude sticking to the letter of the law in such circumstances.
One can argue about whether BA did the right thing or not, but its their choice and the consequences to their business is theirs to determine.
I would suggest however that the majority of no-shows are unrelated to genuine sob stories, but are simple conscious changes of travel schedule. You cannot run a sensible business by having an army of agony aunts trying to determine the validity of every excuse, so one sets the rules and no exceptions.
One can also be pretty sure that if the majority of posters ran their own business where they had no-shows for their services, a refund of zero was most likely to be the outcome.
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Just curious why this two year old thread was resurrected.
I would have been happy to learn that those (non)-customer service people at BA had seen the errors in their ways, but to be reminded that they haven't doesn't actually add to the knowledge of humankind.
Pego I hope you don't mind my slightly sarcastic response here. For discussion of BA's failings you might prefer the threads over at flyerTalk.com
I would have been happy to learn that those (non)-customer service people at BA had seen the errors in their ways, but to be reminded that they haven't doesn't actually add to the knowledge of humankind.
Pego I hope you don't mind my slightly sarcastic response here. For discussion of BA's failings you might prefer the threads over at flyerTalk.com