Look at what BA are up to....
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I called BA on behalf of a close friend who for compassionate reasons (genuine) needed to change the inbound sector on a Premium Economy long haul. These are people who as a family have spent over £50,000 per annum with the airline over the last few years and two of whom are Gold Card holders.
Because it was discounted (a published fare, not a special offer, consolidator, or ID ticket) the fare rule stated that the fare had to be recalculated at the full applicable fare from the point of origin. As it happens the outbound portion was a full 'W' class fare, but they chose to apply the most restrictive condition from origin to destination, even though the rule didn't state that this had to be the case (some do) and they could have used discretion and appplied it only to the inbound leg.
My request to speak to a supervisor was met with an obstructiveness and arrogance bordering on rudeness and only through being tenacious was I able to do so. He was as unyielding and unsympathetic as his underling.
This time, they've got their few hundred pounds. There won't be any more going their way. When I told the supervisor this I was told that 'that is a choice that you are entitled to make'.
Because it was discounted (a published fare, not a special offer, consolidator, or ID ticket) the fare rule stated that the fare had to be recalculated at the full applicable fare from the point of origin. As it happens the outbound portion was a full 'W' class fare, but they chose to apply the most restrictive condition from origin to destination, even though the rule didn't state that this had to be the case (some do) and they could have used discretion and appplied it only to the inbound leg.
My request to speak to a supervisor was met with an obstructiveness and arrogance bordering on rudeness and only through being tenacious was I able to do so. He was as unyielding and unsympathetic as his underling.
This time, they've got their few hundred pounds. There won't be any more going their way. When I told the supervisor this I was told that 'that is a choice that you are entitled to make'.
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Capetonian
I've had very similar experiences to you on BA, not to mention their near perfect record when it comes to not loading passengers and bags onto the same flight.
BA are actually no different to virtually every other western airline, "full service" or "LoCo", in that they simply do not care about their customers. I guess a 41% share of slots at LHR pretty much means they don't need to.
WW is at least honest enough to admit that BA isn't Ryanair, and cannot match that airline for punctuality or lost bags stats.
BA are actually no different to virtually every other western airline, "full service" or "LoCo", in that they simply do not care about their customers. I guess a 41% share of slots at LHR pretty much means they don't need to.
WW is at least honest enough to admit that BA isn't Ryanair, and cannot match that airline for punctuality or lost bags stats.
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Reading these threads about the deterioration in service levels at British Airways makes me feel very sad.
It makes me sad because I am old enough to remember when the airline went out of its way to help passengers and make sure they were well looked after.
Yes there were rules and yes there were inflexible tickets but ground staff had discretion and I found that if you were nice and polite then BA ground staff would often do all in their power to help you out.
Many years ago now I booked a trip to JFK - out economy and back on Concorde. (yes I did say it was a long time ago!) It was in the days of those rectangular paper tickets and the words 'Non END/REF' had pride of place to show no changes were permitted.
As it happened the outbound Concorde never made it to New York so my return flight was obviously cancelled.
BA said I could either fly back First Class or book onto another Concorde flight at a date of my choosing.
I wanted to fly Concorde so I opted to change my return flight for one a month or so later but this left me with the problem of having to buy another ticket to fly home.
Obviously a last minute, one-way ticket, bought at JFK, just hours before I wanted to fly was going to cost me a small fortune.
The ticket agent quoted me the price, saw me turn white, checked his screen again and found that whichever flight he booked me on that evening all the prices would be about the same.
Then he did something he didn't have to do and which I have never forgotten.
He said: "I suppose it is our fault that your original flight was cancelled so let's see if I can do anything about your flight home today."
He then set to work on the keyboard, smiled, and came up with a fare which was a fraction of the earlier price.
I asked him what he had done and he told me he had calculated what the fare would have been had I booked it at the time I originally purchased my ticket.
"Can you do that?"I asked.
"I certainly can sir. Have a great flight!" he replied.
BA has my airline of choice since then but over the years the airline has become less and less likely to help out when a passenger has a problem.
Maybe the time is rapidly approaching when I check out the competition when making my long-haul travel plans.
Griff.
It makes me sad because I am old enough to remember when the airline went out of its way to help passengers and make sure they were well looked after.
Yes there were rules and yes there were inflexible tickets but ground staff had discretion and I found that if you were nice and polite then BA ground staff would often do all in their power to help you out.
Many years ago now I booked a trip to JFK - out economy and back on Concorde. (yes I did say it was a long time ago!) It was in the days of those rectangular paper tickets and the words 'Non END/REF' had pride of place to show no changes were permitted.
As it happened the outbound Concorde never made it to New York so my return flight was obviously cancelled.
BA said I could either fly back First Class or book onto another Concorde flight at a date of my choosing.
I wanted to fly Concorde so I opted to change my return flight for one a month or so later but this left me with the problem of having to buy another ticket to fly home.
Obviously a last minute, one-way ticket, bought at JFK, just hours before I wanted to fly was going to cost me a small fortune.
The ticket agent quoted me the price, saw me turn white, checked his screen again and found that whichever flight he booked me on that evening all the prices would be about the same.
Then he did something he didn't have to do and which I have never forgotten.
He said: "I suppose it is our fault that your original flight was cancelled so let's see if I can do anything about your flight home today."
He then set to work on the keyboard, smiled, and came up with a fare which was a fraction of the earlier price.
I asked him what he had done and he told me he had calculated what the fare would have been had I booked it at the time I originally purchased my ticket.
"Can you do that?"I asked.
"I certainly can sir. Have a great flight!" he replied.
BA has my airline of choice since then but over the years the airline has become less and less likely to help out when a passenger has a problem.
Maybe the time is rapidly approaching when I check out the competition when making my long-haul travel plans.
Griff.
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Griff : The good old days when passengers were ladies and gentlemen, not scruffy arrogant yobs, and airline counters were staffed by ladies and gentlemen and not automatons pushing buttons.
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Or to put it another way, more people fly more often. People don't stay in a job for life anymore, loyalty to one's employer is not what it was and the attitude to customers and staff has changed right across the economy.
It's not BA's fault, everyone's at it. Few companies could find the right people for the right wage in the UK talent pool to fill the jobs with the discretion required. There's too many flights, hence rules and procedures to maintain operations that impact upon discretion. It also removed the ability of staff to muck about with revenue.
In the UK we don't have a single airport that was built from scratch with the 21st century long haul / short haul / legacy / loco mix in mind. Next week I fly through T3 LHR built for the 707 and DC8, one can't help but notice it now looks like the Trafford Centre with an immigration centre attached. I think the problem runs WAY deeper than BA.
Indeed if they brought back all the little touches that were great back in the day, I'd be paying a comparable price that used to leave me skint for a month after booking. In short, they'd go bust remarkably quickly, BASSA notwithstanding.
It's not BA's fault, everyone's at it. Few companies could find the right people for the right wage in the UK talent pool to fill the jobs with the discretion required. There's too many flights, hence rules and procedures to maintain operations that impact upon discretion. It also removed the ability of staff to muck about with revenue.
In the UK we don't have a single airport that was built from scratch with the 21st century long haul / short haul / legacy / loco mix in mind. Next week I fly through T3 LHR built for the 707 and DC8, one can't help but notice it now looks like the Trafford Centre with an immigration centre attached. I think the problem runs WAY deeper than BA.
Indeed if they brought back all the little touches that were great back in the day, I'd be paying a comparable price that used to leave me skint for a month after booking. In short, they'd go bust remarkably quickly, BASSA notwithstanding.
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Ever since Eddington came on board BA seem to have become spectacularly good at alienating its best premium passengers, for me its now just one of a number of airlines I look at where once it was BA wherever possible.
Just a couple of examples of the stupidity
Old days a very high usage Gold Car holder - something like £100k a year spend if I recall - you got a freebie silver card for the wife/partner. Everytime my wife flew to see me at personal cost so in the back - of course she used BA. Cost to BA a cup of coffee in the lounge. Benefit withdrawn. Started flying other carries depending on schedule.
High usage Gold Car holder - 2 free upgrades. Cost to BA, effectively zero.Then made it almost impossible to use the damn things irrespective of seat availability or not. Result - holiday flights and personal cost flights - booked on best available airline.
Expecting a passenger who has just spent over £3 grand on a biz class flight to fork out another £120 to choose a seat at time of booking. Companies pay for the flight but they wont pay to book a seat in advance. Result, other carrier used.
Just a couple of examples of the stupidity
Old days a very high usage Gold Car holder - something like £100k a year spend if I recall - you got a freebie silver card for the wife/partner. Everytime my wife flew to see me at personal cost so in the back - of course she used BA. Cost to BA a cup of coffee in the lounge. Benefit withdrawn. Started flying other carries depending on schedule.
High usage Gold Car holder - 2 free upgrades. Cost to BA, effectively zero.Then made it almost impossible to use the damn things irrespective of seat availability or not. Result - holiday flights and personal cost flights - booked on best available airline.
Expecting a passenger who has just spent over £3 grand on a biz class flight to fork out another £120 to choose a seat at time of booking. Companies pay for the flight but they wont pay to book a seat in advance. Result, other carrier used.
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By way of contrast, and to show that some companies still value their customers.
Booked IOM to LGW then LHR to HKG; IOM flight cancelled due to ash cloud. Called the HK hotel with which I had a booking with a 48 hour cancelation period. Explained that I couldn't fly from IOM to get my LHR flight because of volcano, that I needed to cancel my reservation, and that I knew I was in for the no show penalty. She asked me to repeat the bit about the volcano (I'm sure that news of it's activities could not have reached HK by that time as only the north of England had beed shut down). I was asked to send her an email relating the circumstances which she would pass to her revenue manager, to see whether the penalty might be waived.
I didn't ask for this, but I was polite etc when telling the tale.
Shortly after my email was sent I received a reply for the revenue manager advising that no penalty would be sought.
I had stayed with this hotel a few times before, and I have stayed several times since. It is now my hotel of choice in HK and I happily recommend it whenever the opportunity arrises.
Customer service does still exist. In Asia.
Booked IOM to LGW then LHR to HKG; IOM flight cancelled due to ash cloud. Called the HK hotel with which I had a booking with a 48 hour cancelation period. Explained that I couldn't fly from IOM to get my LHR flight because of volcano, that I needed to cancel my reservation, and that I knew I was in for the no show penalty. She asked me to repeat the bit about the volcano (I'm sure that news of it's activities could not have reached HK by that time as only the north of England had beed shut down). I was asked to send her an email relating the circumstances which she would pass to her revenue manager, to see whether the penalty might be waived.
I didn't ask for this, but I was polite etc when telling the tale.
Shortly after my email was sent I received a reply for the revenue manager advising that no penalty would be sought.
I had stayed with this hotel a few times before, and I have stayed several times since. It is now my hotel of choice in HK and I happily recommend it whenever the opportunity arrises.
Customer service does still exist. In Asia.
BA
I wouldadd my thoughts here, but it isn't worth it as those in BA who could do something about it don't read this stuff, and if they do, they don't care.
We just upset JSL, GG and Tira.
We just upset JSL, GG and Tira.
Customer service does still exist. In Asia.
BA's answer would be 'tough' not our problem
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All this moaning. What are you doing about it? Have you written to BA? or are you just blowing off steam?
Ultimately the market will dictate whether or not this is just a standard internet forum whine or whether there is really anything in it. If you are all correct BA will soon go bust due to it's customers leaving in droves. The converse is that if your expectations have been too high, then BA will continue serenely on without you.
For a more balanced view of BA and its strengths and weaknesses as a full service airline from the perspective of it's frequent flyers go to flyertalk.com
JT
Ultimately the market will dictate whether or not this is just a standard internet forum whine or whether there is really anything in it. If you are all correct BA will soon go bust due to it's customers leaving in droves. The converse is that if your expectations have been too high, then BA will continue serenely on without you.
For a more balanced view of BA and its strengths and weaknesses as a full service airline from the perspective of it's frequent flyers go to flyertalk.com
JT
Juan,
you, you are right.
As I said above, continuation of all the negativity here just upsets the good guys & girls, although F3Gs' battles against poor service are always worth a read!
However, the problem with flyertalk is that it has a disproportionate number of premium pax commenting on BA.
you, you are right.
As I said above, continuation of all the negativity here just upsets the good guys & girls, although F3Gs' battles against poor service are always worth a read!
However, the problem with flyertalk is that it has a disproportionate number of premium pax commenting on BA.
Paxing All Over The World
JT I should like to think that is true but my experience of living and working in Britain (as an adult) for 35 years says otherwise. I have seen a very considerable number of companies systematically reduce their customer service in the name of profit and BA is but one of the many.
The contra-intuitive way of getting out of a black hole does not occur to the herd mentality that is engendered by the daily examination of the share price. From the days when people invested for the long term, to the days when too many (post 1986) look upon the FTSE as a slot machine, have contributed to the running of PLCs.
There is enough evidence to show that BA has not been listening for many years and I suggest, they are not going to listen now. They have chosen a path and are following it. Good luck to them. If they do (as I have said before) sink lower in the global rankings, it does not matter as new services and carriers will overtake them. Sad? Yes. But it happens all the time. It's called survival of the fittest. In terms of a company it is now thought the survival of the financially fittest but if the service is not there, then the finance will fade.
Over the years I've been participating in this forum, I could not begin to imagine how many sorry tales we have heard of BA responding to complaints with standard letters or no letter. If you write to a company and point out the problem and they do not respond - why do it again? Why keep buying from them?
BA have not been my first choice of carrier for 20 years but I know from the times when I have used them that their service is great. But they went for Dirty Tricks and it's been downhill since. I feel very sorry for the engineering staff and the flight/cabin crew but they will be defeated by their management.
The contra-intuitive way of getting out of a black hole does not occur to the herd mentality that is engendered by the daily examination of the share price. From the days when people invested for the long term, to the days when too many (post 1986) look upon the FTSE as a slot machine, have contributed to the running of PLCs.
There is enough evidence to show that BA has not been listening for many years and I suggest, they are not going to listen now. They have chosen a path and are following it. Good luck to them. If they do (as I have said before) sink lower in the global rankings, it does not matter as new services and carriers will overtake them. Sad? Yes. But it happens all the time. It's called survival of the fittest. In terms of a company it is now thought the survival of the financially fittest but if the service is not there, then the finance will fade.
Over the years I've been participating in this forum, I could not begin to imagine how many sorry tales we have heard of BA responding to complaints with standard letters or no letter. If you write to a company and point out the problem and they do not respond - why do it again? Why keep buying from them?
BA have not been my first choice of carrier for 20 years but I know from the times when I have used them that their service is great. But they went for Dirty Tricks and it's been downhill since. I feel very sorry for the engineering staff and the flight/cabin crew but they will be defeated by their management.
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Juan, IMHO you are wrong.
Writing to BA is a waste of time. I have written three times in the last weeks with a complaint, and a small monetary claim, over a flight cancellation on day 1 of the recent strike when the only option I was given was to return from my holiday a day early. Soon afterwards the cancelled the day before's flight (I suspect to use the slot to get chartered aircraft on the ground at LHR) and left us standing by at LHR going from gate to gate trying to get home. Frankly nobody could give a XXXX, it must have been our fault.
I have yet to have even an acknowledgement. It is also impossible to use e-mail to get in touch.
I'm ex-gold, but I won't travel BA unless there is no other option.
Flyertalk has many BA staff 'on-board' who enjoy bullying anyone who doesn't love BA to pieces. It is not impartial.
Writing to BA is a waste of time. I have written three times in the last weeks with a complaint, and a small monetary claim, over a flight cancellation on day 1 of the recent strike when the only option I was given was to return from my holiday a day early. Soon afterwards the cancelled the day before's flight (I suspect to use the slot to get chartered aircraft on the ground at LHR) and left us standing by at LHR going from gate to gate trying to get home. Frankly nobody could give a XXXX, it must have been our fault.
I have yet to have even an acknowledgement. It is also impossible to use e-mail to get in touch.
I'm ex-gold, but I won't travel BA unless there is no other option.
Flyertalk has many BA staff 'on-board' who enjoy bullying anyone who doesn't love BA to pieces. It is not impartial.
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Writing to BA is a waste of time
@Paxboy, we seem to be making the same point, when I referred to the market, I was talking about the wider market, not the stock market. If the demand for your service is falling due to poor product then you either adapt or go out of business. The world of business is Darwinistic - evolve or die. If BA do not evolve they will die. Customer service is never perfect, sometimes companies get it wrong, and if they do that they need to be told.
Está servira para distraerle.
I once wrote BA a polysyllabic pirouette of protest when Concord was six hours late out of London to collect two of us in Barbados. It worked quite well and BA very kindly sent me three First Class returns to Bridgetown as a compensation for the inconvenience of arriving into Heathrow later than the usual supersonic civilised time. I have no idea why the airline's largesse extended to three tickets. It did however involve me in considerable expense in that I had to fund another hotel stay in Barbados in order to use the tickets so kindly supplied by BA. So yes indeed, writing to an airline can work. It takes only a little time to politely tell them how irritated you are. And if you do receive apologetic consolation it is very gratifying if only because of its apparent rarity value.
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It is a shame to read the comments on here about BA service deteriorating.
I used to think (about 15 years ago) that it was one of the best airlines in the world.
However, it is now quite some time since I have flown with the airline and I would be loathe to do so anytime soon due to the industrial action - at least until management and unions demonstrate that they can work together like adults for a sustained period of time.
I used to think (about 15 years ago) that it was one of the best airlines in the world.
However, it is now quite some time since I have flown with the airline and I would be loathe to do so anytime soon due to the industrial action - at least until management and unions demonstrate that they can work together like adults for a sustained period of time.
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When something goes wrong I write to the organisation concerned, and I tell them what require and why. My request is usually reasonable (in my view!).
When they send back a standard cut and paste bull**** reply I escalate the matter. I continue to do so until I get what I want - which is often more than I asked for at the outset. Persistence is the name of the game.
Having a good old bitch on internet forums is a relief valve and I suspect that many of us who post on such forums hope that their comments are read by senior PR staff at the airlines.
When they send back a standard cut and paste bull**** reply I escalate the matter. I continue to do so until I get what I want - which is often more than I asked for at the outset. Persistence is the name of the game.
Having a good old bitch on internet forums is a relief valve and I suspect that many of us who post on such forums hope that their comments are read by senior PR staff at the airlines.
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Originally Posted by Capetonian
I called BA on behalf of a close friend who for compassionate reasons (genuine) needed to change the inbound sector on a Premium Economy long haul. These are people who as a family have spent over £50,000 per annum with the airline over the last few years and two of whom are Gold Card holders.
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But moaning on an internet forum works for you? It gets results? BA change their service because of it?
I'm not holding out any hope of the situation improving. Which is why I won't travel BA unless I have no other option. And I'm not the only one.
I see a lot of comments from others who are saying, if you allow me to paraphrase. BA used to be really good but they are failing badly now, I sure hope they return to their glory, soon! Well I see no signs of that.
If you are BA staff, can I suggest you pass along my 'moan'? Rather than treat me as a whiner, you should consider me to be a 'canary'. I could care less if my particular issue is dealt with, but you should.
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Timothy Claypole
How is BA to tell the difference? Fair comment, but in the old days they had staff who were empowered to use discretion and, if appropriate, ask for supporting documentation. In the case I cited, evidence was available (in fact, they would only have had to have seen a newspaper) and I offered it, but they were quite blatantly disinterested and not even prepared to discuss it.
I've worked for airlines for long enough to know that there are chancers by the million out there, and that there are millionaires who are too mean to pay a £10 amendment fee.
Sorry, but however you look at it BA have failed miserably in their duty of care to their most loyal and valuable customers.
How is BA to tell the difference? Fair comment, but in the old days they had staff who were empowered to use discretion and, if appropriate, ask for supporting documentation. In the case I cited, evidence was available (in fact, they would only have had to have seen a newspaper) and I offered it, but they were quite blatantly disinterested and not even prepared to discuss it.
I've worked for airlines for long enough to know that there are chancers by the million out there, and that there are millionaires who are too mean to pay a £10 amendment fee.
Sorry, but however you look at it BA have failed miserably in their duty of care to their most loyal and valuable customers.